There is almost zero in here that looks anything like Christ

[bbyrd009]

Where's that???

ha, doesn't really matter--but the point is it is quite civilized, let's say.

 

[bbyrd009]

But if you put me and a gang girl in a room, who will win?

i guess it depends upon what the prize is perceived to be. Or who the better overcomer is, perhaps.
Disputes require two people to be disputing something; one person cannot dispute alone.

 

[GodsGrace]

nonetheless, he represents a new authority, not the lack of an authority at all.

Right.
But I wasn't speaking of AUTHORITY.
I was speaking of a CIVIL society.

It was not civil under the mean guy.
Ralph?

 

[GodsGrace]

i guess it depends upon what the prize is perceived to be. Or who the better overcomer is, perhaps.
Disputes require two people to be disputing something; one person cannot dispute alone.

Sometimes you sound so worldy.
Sometimes you sound so innocent.
Chances are that SHE will want to dispute...
NOT ME!!!

 

[pia]

"God needed Jesus to come and reconcile us to Himself," i'd like to see it

If He hadn't needed this to happen, why was the ' Lamb, slain from the foundation of the earth ' ? Doesn't the Bible also speak of God reconciling everyone to Himself in and through Christ ?
God, in my experiences, wastes nothing and does nothing which is unnecessary , so if He had not needed one single man to live his life before Himself, 100% right in all things always, thus without sin and having upheld ALL of the Law ......If He had not needed to do that, He wouldn't have..............as we can also understand, no 'ordinary' man was going to be able to do this, so God took it upon Himself , but still through the birth from blood and water, brought forth by a woman...
After Jesus completed the work the Father had given Him to do, we 'see' several things happen......The Bible states, that Jesus sat down at the right hand of God, denoting rest............although like God now, able to be in Heaven and on earth, everywhere at all times ( it even tells us that if we are in Christ, we too are both in Heaven and upon the Earth)......
Also, the purpose of mankind becomes revealed in that now, a Son of man is seated next to God on a throne and through this, all sons and daughters (no gender in the spirit) of mankind can fellowship with God, DESPITE mans inability to be perfectly righteous before God at all times ( in the flesh ) and thus hidden in Christ until we can all be changed into His image and likeness, AT LAST !..........In this way coming full circle right from Genesis where God says :" Let us make man in our image according to our likeness." ....His first creation became corrupted and did NOT become like Him, which He foreknew and therefore clothed in flesh, so that the flesh could be destroyed without also having to destroy the spirit within.....Our clever clever Father ..........In the Bible it is written that, now sin has been condemned to the flesh....So, when our flesh dies, the sin goes with it, and as far as our spirit goes? Well that's safe with Him...

 

[bbyrd009]

God will win in the end.
His plan will be victorious.

But if you put me and a gang girl in a room, who will win?

ha you will, of course, when she detects love and forgiveness from you, instead of fear and defense. i doubt even most gang girls can resist puppies with wagging tails, so to speak. Of course the interaction will be different if you ask her if she is in a gang first thing, right.

so, it is posited as being at her whim, when really it is at yours iow.

 

[bbyrd009]

Sometimes you sound so worldy.
Sometimes you sound so innocent.
Chances are that SHE will want to dispute...
NOT ME!!!

ha, you forget how charming you can be lol. As i guess most of us do, in that situation.
"When i defend myself, i am attacked"

 

[bbyrd009]

If He hadn't needed this to happen, why was the ' Lamb, slain from the foundation of the earth ' ?

well, why did Adam and Eve need a skin? It is the same question, right. i guess one way to put it is that they now felt naked; or got an ego, and it was fragile, perhaps. Or became a god, separate, with a "free" will, and suddenly felt inadequate.

I guess watching any baby go from being comfortable naked to wanting not only any covering, but then certain clothes, would also serve to explain, although i have no kids so i am guessing there.

A clue to the nature of this relationship--which btw Mankind needed as surely as God did not, ok, we are not going to end up here denying the need for Christ--might even be found in the statement, "The Son of Man must be raised up like a Snake on a Pole, in order to draw all men to Himself," read from a certain perspective, that of "this is what must be done, so that will happen."

 

[bbyrd009]

Doesn't the Bible also speak of God reconciling everyone to Himself in and through Christ ?

certainly, but we turn it into a religious, ritual mush (and one popular mush is "God cannot tolerate sin anywhere near His Person" when we forget that God is everywhere, and you cannot get away from God even if you wanted to, see Jonah), when "Who told you that you were naked? Here, have this skin then" describes the situation much better. It is direct, simple, IRL (in real life, sorry), and suggests implications that we mostly do not even discuss, on religious forums anyway, lest we be dismissed out of hand.

i did some editing up there, hope i obfuscated enough, but prolly not lol

 

[bbyrd009]

God, in my experiences, wastes nothing and does nothing which is unnecessary , so if He had not needed one single man to live his life before Himself, 100% right in all things always, thus without sin and having upheld ALL of the Law ......If He had not needed to do that, He wouldn't have

ah, but you are maybe forgetting that He has children with needs here?

 

[bbyrd009]

Right.
But I wasn't speaking of AUTHORITY.
I was speaking of a CIVIL society.

It was not civil under the mean guy.
Ralph?

but see how their society with a chief (king) being challenged by another king, describes our "civil society" so well, from the perspective of the oppressed at least. You just happen to not be one of the oppressed, so just like in Scripture, you reveal your heart in your interpretation of the story, see. And i am not oppressed either, so i have to fix my reply here as i get more Word on it, lol, because i never realized any of this about "The Lord of the Flies" until i started this convo with you. But after all, the title is a Scripture reference, right.

ps, this part,
"from the perspective of the oppressed at least. You just happen to not be one of the oppressed, so just like in Scripture, you reveal your heart in your interpretation of the story, see. And i am not oppressed either,"
there is still something not right in here, so i guess we aren't done yet.

 

[GodsGrace]

but see how their society with a chief (king) being challenged by another king, describes our "civil society" so well, from the perspective of the oppressed at least. You just happen to not be one of the oppressed, so just like in Scripture, you reveal your heart in your interpretation of the story, see. And i am not oppressed either, so i have to fix my reply here as i get more Word on it, lol, because i never realized any of this about "The Lord of the Flies" until i started this convo with you. But after all, the title is a Scripture reference, right.

ps, this part,
"from the perspective of the oppressed at least. You just happen to not be one of the oppressed, so just like in Scripture, you reveal your heart in your interpretation of the story, see. And i am not oppressed either,"
there is still something not right in here, so i guess we aren't done yet.

bb
All of us are oppressed.
Want to see a good movie?
Cloud Atlas.

 

[GodsGrace]

but see how their society with a chief (king) being challenged by another king, describes our "civil society" so well, from the perspective of the oppressed at least. You just happen to not be one of the oppressed, so just like in Scripture, you reveal your heart in your interpretation of the story, see. And i am not oppressed either, so i have to fix my reply here as i get more Word on it, lol, because i never realized any of this about "The Lord of the Flies" until i started this convo with you. But after all, the title is a Scripture reference, right.

ps, this part,
"from the perspective of the oppressed at least. You just happen to not be one of the oppressed, so just like in Scripture, you reveal your heart in your interpretation of the story, see. And i am not oppressed either,"
there is still something not right in here, so i guess we aren't done yet.

Hi bb
I was working from memory, but, yes, there's a lot to this story. One of my favorites. I got this from Prof. Google:


Question: What's important about the title of 'Lord of the Flies'?

Why did William Golding entitle the novel 'Lord of the Flies'? What does the title stand for? What does it mean? Is there a character (or object)--to represent the "Lord of the Flies"?

Answer:

"Lord of the Flies" refers to one of the names for the Devil (Beelzebub). The setting becomes more-and-more hellish as the novel goes on.
The young boys become dirty savages--all their inner evils and personal turmoils surface.

We can also point to a passage in the novel:

"Up there, for once, were clouds, great bulging towers that sprouted away over the island, grey and cream and copper-colored. The clouds were sitting on the land; they squeezed, produced moment by moment this close, tormenting heat. Even the butterflies deserted the open spaces where the obscene thing grinned and dripped. Simon lowered his head, carefully keeping his eyes shut, then sheltering them in his hand. There were no shadows under the trees, but everywhere a pearly stillness, so that what was real seemed illusive and without definition. The pile of guts was a black blob of flies that buzzed like a saw. After a while these flies found Simon. Gorged, they alighted on his runnels of sweat and drank. They tickled under his nostrils and played leapfrog on his thighs. They were black and iridescent green and without number; and in front of Simon, the Lord of the Flies hung on his stick and grinned. At last Simon gave up and looked back; saw the white teeth and dim eyes, the blood--and his gaze was held by that ancient, inescapable recognition. In Simon's right temple, a pulse began to bead on the brain."

There's an evil (represented by the pig's head)--it's there among the boys on the island.

 

[bbyrd009]

The young boys become dirty savages--all their inner evils and personal turmoils surface.

ha, yes. it can also be observed that the best way to see someone's real self is to get them drunk, lowering their inhibitions iow.
And one can define a Christian as a teetotaller, or someone who does not change when they get drunk.

 

[pia]

well, why did Adam and Eve need a skin

The way I have been shown, was that it was necessary to make mankind in two 'bits'........He made us in His image ( spirit ) and then 'clothed' us with flesh, because He knew what man would do. So the flesh can now die ( thanks to Jesus ), but our spirits won't have to go the way of death....
Human 'flesh' is never going to be perfect, so we may as well stop trying so hard and just accept the precious gift Jesus is offering us, in that He, and only He was able to do what God required, and Him having done it, we too can be saved through that......Hurray !

 

[pia]

certainly, but we turn it into a religious, ritual mush (and one popular mush is "God cannot tolerate sin anywhere near His Person" when we forget that God is everywhere, and you cannot get away from God even if you wanted to, see Jonah), when "Who told you that you were naked? Here, have this skin then" describes the situation much better. It is direct, simple, IRL (in real life, sorry), and suggests implications that we mostly do not even discuss, on religious forums anyway, lest we be dismissed out of hand.

i did some editing up there, hope i obfuscated enough, but prolly not lol

I couldn't agree more, and it is a very sad thing indeed, when people just turn it into some other religious observance and rituals......Imho, Adam and Eve already had skin, but had no covering once they ate off whatever it was they ingested, so they saw themselves 'openly' for the first time.......God then clothed their naked bodies with animal skin ( the first ever sacrifice ? ) Because of what Jesus did our Father is able to be among us, unlike when His presence was confined to coming once a year, onto the Mercy Seat in the Holy of Holies .....I was taught by a Pastor that the rending of the Temple curtain made it possible for us to go to our Father, however Jesus taught me that it made it possible for our Father to not be limited by our sin, so He came out ( so to speak).....
Too many religious assumptions all over the place, we should all be seeking the Truth through Him, and leave our human understanding and often pride, at the door...

 

[pia]

ah, but you are maybe forgetting that He has children with needs here?

And He is willing and able to assist anywhere He is invited .....It comes down to the faith that works through Love.....If we can't get to know Him as ONLY Love, our faith will mostly be patchy at best...

 

[aspen]

If I've noticed older people tend to complain quite a lot. They must learn over the years that it is effective.

In my experience endless arguing is useless. Anything important usually comes out at the beginning of an argument. The rest is just regurgitation.

Now, get off my lawn....

 

[GodsGrace]

Now, get off my lawn....