There Will Be a Rapture

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banjo71

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Lately there have been many posts about there not being a rapture. I hope you read thru and find comfort in the truth. I’ve done some simple research on this topic with a few Greek words/phrases. I’ll let you come to your own conclusions. I used a Hebrew-Greek KeyWord Study Bible, KJV.

The thing about a rapture is that just because the terminology wasn’t used til later in history, the word “rapture” means what the Greek words imply. And you can't take context of the Bible out of the picture. You must read what is written before and after the words about being taken up into the clouds.



Start with 1 Cor 15 v 51



Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed.



Paul states we will all not be sleeping, or in the grave,when the rapture happens, but some of us will still be alive. This contradicts the belief that there won’tbe a rapture this way: If there is no rapture,and we will all be killed off in the tribulation there won’t be a time whereGod changes the living Christians corruptible into incorruptible, and the mortal into immortality, since we’d all be dead anyway. So why did Paul speak about being changed? Otherwise, it would assume the ushering in of the millennium with all Christians dead and raised to an earthly stay with Christ. But the bible speaks differently:



1 Cor 15:51, 1 Thess 4:16-17



In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump…..



For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God; and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we, which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.



So Paul says first, there will be sleeping Christians inthe grave and living Christians on earth when he descends from heaven with ashout. The terminology “shall be caught up together with them in the clouds” is translated from the Greek harpagesometha. So, the word rapture,even it’s relatively new use in the church, its definition to the Greek harpagesometha, to be caught up, is in the biblevery clearly. Plus, the word meet, in a more convincing example,comes from the Greek eis apantesin, which means literally “to come into the presence of, to meet.”



Now put that together with “the clouds” (why speak of a meeting in the clouds with the Lord if we all met in the 1000 yr reign on earth??), and you have what’s going on in the “rapture” word Christians have used to describe this event.



Most Christians who hold a view of the rapture understand that the decent from Heaven of our Lord to gather up his own church, sets the ticker for the great tribulation. Therewill be a time between the rapture and the 7 years of tribulation. During the 7 years and the judgments will still not see white throne judgment until after the 1000 year reign of Christ. The church will see the judgment seat of Christ, at some point, not to judge sin (we have passed from judgment to life – Jesus’ words) but to give the crowns of rewards according to what we have done as Christians.



Christ will appear as the 2[sup]nd[/sup] coming, the Day of the Lord, to separate the goats and the sheep, bring judgment, and set up His kingdom on earth. We will reign with him for 1000 years.



Really though, the fact I wanted to bring out is that there is a rapture coming, and it could come anytime.. the air is pregnant for such a time. No prophesy hasn’t been fulfilled that would need to.



Finally, in 1 Thess 4:18, Paul writes



Wherefore comfort one another with these words.



How many times have we read posts that are not comforting for Christians about the end times? Paul is saying to comfort those who are distressed about it and say, “We will be with the Lord always when he descends from Heaven.” It’s supposed to be a comfort, not a fear, to the Christian.
 

Foreigner

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Of course there will be a Rapture.

The issue is that there is scripture to support both a pre-Tribulation and post-Tribulation rapture.
 

banjo71

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Everything you quoted was taken completely out of context. Everything! You can't show "the rapture" without doing that! Your rapture doctrine is a lie. That makes you and anyone else that teaches it a false teacher.



If you've got it engrained in your mind the context is supposed to be as you believe, as in no meeting in the air, then ya, everything I say will sound false and you win the argument. But you haven't looked at it with "what if I've overlooked something", and you haven't proved to me there won't be a meeting in the air. What's your context of the verses I copied out of the Bible?
 

Joshua David

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Everything you quoted was taken completely out of context. Everything! You can't show "the rapture" without doing that! Your rapture doctrine is a lie. That makes you and anyone else that teaches it a false teacher.


Then why don't you give us what you consider the correct interpretation, that way we can judge the correctness between the two for ourselves.


Joshua David


 

aspen

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The Rapture is not essential doctrine. False teachers preach another Christ, not just variation on nonessential doctrine.
 

banjo71

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The Rapture is not essential doctrine. False teachers preach another Christ, not just variation on nonessential doctrine.


Then being caught up in the clouds, in 1 Thessalonians is not essential? There we go, neither is anything but the book of Romans and the Gospels ! Everything in the Bible is essential doctrine. Anyone who avoids the theme of the rapture is only basing their credance on the fact that the word "rapture" is a new word, made up not long ago. I'm talking about being caught up together in the clouds, as Jesus spoke of thru the Apostle Paul. If you deny Paul's writings, you've set yourself to deny every book in the bible.
 

Joshua David

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What Aspen was talking about is that belief in the Rapture is not essential for Salvation, not that is not essential to the Word of God. In other words, if you believe that Jesus is the Son of God, that he came and died, as payment for your sins, and that his death was the Sacrificial Atonement for our sin debt, then God isn't going to say to you, "You know, you almost had it. You believed everything that was needed except the Rapture. If only you would have believed in that. Depart from me you worker of inequity, I never knew you."

The bible is a very deep, and wonderful book filled with mountains of information for the person that is diligent to search for it. But God made his plan of Salvation Plan very easy to understand so that even a child could understand it.

Joshua David
 

th1b.taylor

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Sorry but the rapture is a completely false doctrine!

Tom,
I'm sorry but our friend gave you the scripture for the base of our belief that any reasonable person, indwelt with the Holy Spirit, can come to. On the other side of the coin you have built a straw man to mow down with you baseless and very biased statement. What you have done here is exactly the thing that Paul was cautioning believers to be careful of when the author of the book of Acts mentioned the Bereans. (Acts 17:11) If you wish to contend that this is a false teaching you must prove your statement credible.
 

Foreigner

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"For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever." 1 Thess 4:16-17


-- Read into that verse what you will but it does say the Lord is coming back and we will be called to meet Him in the air.

Those who say this happens AFTER the Tribulation could indeed be correct but timing aside, Scripture says this event WILL happen. That should be the starting point for this conversation.

My small and rather nit-picky question is, if Jesus is returning to establish a new kingdom here on earth, why would we meet Him in the air to be with Him?
 

tomwebster

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Everyone who believes and teaches Rapture is a false teacher? Whoa! That's a sweeping attack. How brave! You didn't even bother to pull out your sword!



TB, there is a white " Search" box at the left side of the forum page, type in "rapture" and see how many times the subject has been discussed on this forum. It is probably the most often discussed topic here. Read though some of them to see all the time me and others have documented the false rapture doctrine. More often than not, I tend to just let those that want to be deceived be deceived and suffer the consequences of believing the false doctrine. Aspen think there will be no consequences and will be very disappointed someday.




Tom,
I'm sorry but our friend gave you the scripture for the base of our belief that any reasonable person, indwelt with the Holy Spirit, can come to. On the other side of the coin you have built a straw man to mow down with you baseless and very biased statement. What you have done here is exactly the thing that Paul was cautioning believers to be careful of when the author of the book of Acts mentioned the Bereans. (Acts 17:11) If you wish to contend that this is a false teaching you must prove your statement credible.

Do the Search, I've dealt with those Scriptures dozens of times, they are the most often quoted by you rapture teachers.

 

aspen

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This statement adds works to our salvation. Faith in Jesus alone saves us, not our believe in doctrine. Anyone else see the irony here? I am Catholic.......
 

rockytopva

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This statement adds works to our salvation. Faith in Jesus alone saves us, not our believe in doctrine. Anyone else see the irony here? I am Catholic.......

Aspen... Glad you asked.... Please see my new post under End Times Prophecy Christian Forum... Its called "The Pre-Trib Rapture"


 

banjo71

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I agree totally you don't have to believe in the rapture to be and remained saved. There won't be any eternal consequences for or not believing in it or not. So it is not essential doctrine in the definition of essential saving doctrine. But ithe theory of getting caught up in the clouds is written in the bible, it's something we can discuss. I don't think it warrants anyone accusing another of being a false teacher. God is bigger than us, and knows our hearts individually. He knows that debate in the word of God is bound to be, in order to understand what is written. Debate in Revelations is common, debate in Genesis chapter 1:1-2 is also very common. Why do non-rapture believing people think we are trying to be false?? We're debating the verses we find in the bible that lead us to believe there will be a meeting in the air, in the clouds, with the Lord Jesus, out of Thessalonians.
Making false teacher accusations that quickly shows anger, pride and lack of love, and peaceable nature. This isn't a judgment, it's something I percieve personally - it's an admonishment. Judging would mean I add "you're not going to heaven because I percieve you are angry ..etc.." I may be wrong, but I'm pretty well able to distinguish between those who are sincerely warning Chriistians from what they think is false, and actually out of anger putting a mask of self-righteousness and calling me a false teacher. Because there is absolutely no qualifications or reasons to call another brother in Christ a false teacher because he is debating the rapture.

Also, I am a newbie, and I refuse to go thru old posts using the search when I have the right by the forum rules to create my own topic, whether it's been discussed before or not. And besides, I'd rather believe the bible than depending on someone saying "I refuted this with a friend many times over in old threads." I much more believe the bible in this case.
 

aspen

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Here's another issue - some people read the rapture related verses as if they are describing a one time event that will only happen according to some formula - pre-trib, post-trib....blah, blah, blah....

What if it is speculative? What if it is a general statement describing events that will happen in the end times? I feel like some Christians will demand their money back if they are not raptured according to their understanding.....

I prefer to look at these verses with wonder and awe rather than 'doctrinering' them up into some dogmatic formula - and it doesn't make me a false teacher, either!