These three are one

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Charlie24

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That was only the first step into the great delusion. The second step away from the truth was taken by Luther. He built on the first error by changing Paul's meaning to deviate people from the path of life. Today, basically all Protestants read Paul through the mind of Luther. The gospel was never to be about personal salvation. The true gospel is about the coming of and the availability of the kingdom realm of the Spirit.

Luther started out on the right premise when he nailed his 95 thesis to the Church door stating, "the just shall live by faith."

He with Calvin and others did open up a whole new can of worms, but taking a step in the right direction from the greatest harm of all.
 

Episkopos

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Luther started out on the right premise when he nailed his 95 thesis to the Church door stating, "the just shall live by faith."

He with Calvin and others did open up a whole new can of worms, but taking a step in the right direction from the greatest harm of all.


The great delusion is that this is what it seems to be. That's why its called a delusion. Luther was not a prophet nor an apostle. He was a frustrated monk who grew tired of waiting on the Lord and receiving nothing. Like so many imitators of Cain in the church throughout its history...he decided to remedy that by subverting the meaning of the scriptures to make it appear that he is ALREADY justified just by having certain dogmatic beliefs. Luther's hatred of the Jews and true disciples of Christ proves his own motivation. Do you think burning Anabaptists at the stake (just like Calvin did) is the mark of a man of God? Many seem to be able to ignore such things. That's how deep the delusion goes.

So then dead religion replaces the need for fellowship with the living God for MOST modern believers. God is seen as too distant and difficult to please...hence the need for the great delusion...to make people feel justified in their fallen state.

The time has come where most believers are are no longer able to tolerate sound doctrine.
 

Charlie24

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The great delusion is that this is what it seems to be. That's why its called a delusion. Luther was not a prophet nor an apostle. He was a frustrated monk who grew tired of waiting on the Lord and receiving nothing. Like so many imitators of Cain in the church throughout its history...he decided to remedy that by subverting the meaning of the scriptures to make it appear that he is ALREADY justified just by having certain dogmatic beliefs. Luther's hatred of the Jews and true disciples of Christ proves his own motivation. Do you think burning Anabaptists at the stake (just like Calvin did) is the mark of a man of God? Many seem to be able to ignore such things. That's how deep the delusion goes.

So then dead religion replaces the need for fellowship with the living God for MOST modern believers. God is seen as too distant and difficult to please...hence the need for the great delusion...to make people feel justified in their fallen state.

The time has come where most believers are are no longer able to tolerate sound doctrine.

In 500 years, if the Lord hasn't returned, what will they say about us? It's easy to pick apart someone from over 500 years ago and condemn them, when you have no idea what the circumstances were in the time that they lived.

There are many things where I agree with Luther and Calvin, there are many things where I disagree. But I admire their courage for the stand they took, risking their lives for what they believed.

They knew enough to know the RCC had departed from the Word of God! They themselves were deceived in some ways, just as history will show that we are deceived in some manner.

Regardless of doctrine, it's faith in Christ that saves, both Luther and Calvin possessed that in common. You are no more saved than they! You can get every doctrine of Scripture wrong, but if your faith is in Christ, what He did for us on the Cross, you will be saved.
 
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GRACE ambassador

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Enoch111

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The OP shows the difference of being one and agree in one. If God were three, verse 7 would read as verse 8.
Verse 7 says "these three ARE one". Verse 8 is talking about something else. So focus on what is actually stated, not wishful thinking.
 

Truther

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I agree, Matt 28:19 has been changed.
It should have supported the following...

Luke 24:47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Keep up the good work.
I think God put Matt 28:19 as we see it to divide the sheep from the goats.

Can you imagine if the RCC, Mormons, JWs etc, taught Acts 2:38 with all their doctrinal pollutions?
 

user

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I think God put Matt 28:19 as we see it to divide the sheep from the goats.

Can you imagine if the RCC, Mormons, JWs etc, taught Acts 2:38 with all their doctrinal pollutions?

Like this?...

Luke 9:54 And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did?
 

L.A.M.B.

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LOL..I am a ham radio operator;)



That sweet little faced boy in your avatar melts my heart. Oh what joy, excitement and courage he must bring to his blessed parents.

Blessings on you & yours !
 

Truther

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Like this?...

Luke 9:54 And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did?
A little more subtilly… Lol
 

Truther

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That sweet little faced boy in your avatar melts my heart. Oh what joy, excitement and courage he must bring to his blessed parents.

Blessings on you & yours !
Thank you, that is my five month old grandson having a cow. He is surely a blessing to us.
 
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tigger 2

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Amen!

1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Romans 1:3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
[4] And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:

Revelation 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
..................................................
1 Timothy 3:16

Noted Bible scholar Dr. Frederick C. Grant writes:

“A capital example [of NT manuscript changes] is found in 1 Timothy 3:16, where ‘OS’ (OC or ὃς, ‘who’) was later taken for theta sigma with a bar above, which stood for theos (θεὸς, ‘god’). Since the new reading suited …. the orthodox doctrine of the church [trinitarian, at this later date], it got into many of the later manuscripts ….” – p. 656, Encyclopedia Americana, vol. 3, 1957 ed. (This same statement by Dr. Grant was still to be found in the latest Encyclopedia Americana that I examined – the 1990 ed., pp. 696-698, vol. 3.)

A Textual Commentary on the Greek New Testament by the United Bible Societies (1971 ed.) tells why the trinitarian UBS Committee chose ὃς [‘who’ or ‘he who’] as the original reading in their NT text for this verse:

“it is supported by the earliest and best uncials.” And, “Thus, no uncial (in the first hand [by the ORIGINAL writer]) earlier than the eighth or ninth century supports θεὸς [“God”]; all ancient versions presuppose ὃς [or OC, “who” - masc.] or [“which” - neut.]; and no patristic writer prior to the last third of the fourth century [ca. 370 A.D.] testifies to the reading θεὸς. The reading θεὸς arose either (a) accidentally, through the misreading of OC as ΘC, or (b) deliberately....” - p. 641.

In actuality it appears to be a combination of both (with the emphasis on the latter). You see, the word ὃς was written in the most ancient manuscripts as OC (“C” being a common form for the ancient Greek letter “S” at that time). Most often at this time the word for God (θεὸς) was written in abbreviated form as ΘC. However, to show that it was an abbreviated form, a straight line, or bar, was always drawn above ΘC. So no copyist should have mistaken ὃς (or OC) for ΘC, in spite of their similarities, simply because of the prominent bar which appeared over the one and not over the other.

What may have happened was discovered by John J. Wetstein in 1714. As he was carefully examining one of the oldest NT manuscripts then known (the Alexandrine Manuscript in London) he noticed at 1 Tim. 3:16 that the word originally written there was OC but that a horizontal stroke from one of the words written on the other side of the manuscript showed through very faintly in the middle of the O. This still would not qualify as an abbreviation for θεὸς, of course, but Wetstein discovered that some person at a much later date and in a different style from the original writer had deliberately added a bar above the original word! Anyone copying from this manuscript after it had been deliberately changed would be likely to incorporate the counterfeit ΘC [with bar above it] into his new copy (especially since it reflected his own trinitarian views)!

Of course, since Wetstein’s day many more ancient NT manuscripts have been discovered and none of them before the eighth century A.D. have been found with ΘC (“God”) at this verse!

Trinitarian scholar Murray J. Harris also concludes:

“The strength of the external evidence favoring OC [‘who’], along with considerations of transcriptional and intrinsic probability, have prompted textual critics virtually unanimously to regard OC as the original text, a judgment reflected in NA(26) [Nestle-Aland text] and UBS (1,2,3) [United Bible Societies text] (with a ‘B’ rating) [also the Westcott & Hort text]. Accordingly, 1 Tim 3:16 is not an instance of the Christological [‘Jesus is God’] use of θεὸς.” - Jesus as God, p. 268, Baker Book House, 1992.

And very trinitarian (Southern Baptist) NT Greek scholar A. T. Robertson wrote about this scripture:

He who (hos [or OC in the original text]). The correct text, not theos (God) the reading of the Textus Receptus ... nor ho (neuter relative [pronoun]), agreeing with [the neuter] musterion [‘mystery’] the reading of Western documents.” - p. 577, Vol. 4, Word Pictures in the New Testament, Broadman Press.

And even hyper-trinitarian NT Greek scholar, Daniel B. Wallace uses the relative pronoun ὃς (‘who’) in this scripture and tells us:

“The textual variant θεὸς [‘god’] in the place of ὃς [‘who’ or ‘he who’] has been adamantly defended by some scholars, particularly those of the ‘majority text’ school. Not only is such a reading poorly attested [8], but the syntactical argument that ‘mystery’ (μυστήριον) being a neuter noun, cannot be followed by the masculine pronoun (ὃς) is entirely without weight. As attractive theologically [for trinitarians, of course] as the reading θεὸς may be, it is spurious. To reject it is not to deny the deity of Christ, of course; it is just to deny any explicit reference in this text.” [italicized emphasis is by Wallace]. - pp. 341-342, Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics, Zondervan, 1996.

The correct rendering of 1 Tim. 3:16, then, is: “He who was revealed in the flesh ….” - NASB. Cf. ASV; RSV; NRSV; NAB; JB; NJB; NIV; NEB; REB; ESV; Douay-Rheims; TEV; CEV; BBE; NLV; God’s Word; New Century Version; Holman NT; ISV NT; Lexham English Bible; The Message; Weymouth; Moffatt; etc.

Even if we were to insist that those later manuscripts that used theos were, somehow, correct, we would have to recognize that it is the anarthrous (without the definite article) theos which we find. This is rarely, if ever, the form used for the only true God (when the known exceptions are taken into account - see MARTIN study). Instead, it either points to the probability that it is a corrupted OC (which of course would not have the article in the first place), or, less probable, but still possible, that Christ is being called “a god.”