Those who deny Eternal Security

[justbyfaith]

Being dead to sin is a spiritual reality. It is connected with the Scripture, "I am crucified with Christ (put to death with Him), nevertheless I live, yet not I, but Christ lives in me; and the life I live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God who loved me and gave Himself for me."

Look at Romans 6:1-14:
"What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? 2 By no means! We are those who have died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? 3 Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.

5 For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we will certainly also be united with him in a resurrection like his. 6 For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body ruled by sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin— 7 because anyone who has died has been set free from sin.

8 Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. 9 For we know that since Christ was raised from the dead, he cannot die again; death no longer has mastery over him. 10 The death he died, he died to sin once for all; but the life he lives, he lives to God.

11 In the same way, count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus. 12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desires. 13 Do not offer any part of yourself to sin as an instrument of wickedness, but rather offer yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life; and offer every part of yourself to him as an instrument of righteousness. 14 For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under the law, but under grace.

So, it means that you are separated from sin.

For that is the primary meaning of death in the Bible...physical death is separation of the soul from the body...spiritual death is separation of the soul from the Spirit of the Lord.

Therefore, becoming dead to sin, means that I am separated from sin...entire sanctification.

See also Colossians 2:11 (nlt)...

Col 2:11, When you came to Christ, you were “circumcised,” but not by a physical procedure. Christ performed a spiritual circumcision—the cutting away of your sinful nature.

 

[Grailhunter]

Luk 14:26, If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

Strong's definition:
G3404 μισέω miséō, mis-eh'-o; from a primary μῖσος mîsos (hatred); to detest (especially to persecute); by extension, to love less:—hate(-ful).

KJV Dictionary Definition: hate
hate
HATE, v.t. L. odi, for hodi.

1. To dislike greatly; to have a great aversion to. It expresses less than abhor, detest, and abominate, unless pronounced with a peculiar emphasis.

How long will fools hate knowledge? Prov.1.

Blessed are ye when men shall hate you. Luke 6.

The Roman tyrant was contented to be hated, if he was but feared.

2. In Scripture, it signifies to love less.

If any man come to me, and hate not father and mother, &c. Luke 14.

He that spareth the rod, hateth his son. Prov. 13.

HATE, n. Great dislike or aversion; hatred.

hated
HA'TED, pp. Greatly disliked.

hateful
HA'TEFUL, a. Odious; exciting great dislike, aversion or disgust. All sin is hateful in the sight of God and of good men.

1. That feels hatred; malignant; malevolent.

And, worse than death, to view with hateful eyes

His rival's conquest.

hatefulness
HA'TEFULNESS, n. Odiousness; the quality of being hateful, or of exciting aversion or disgust.

hating
HA'TING, ppr. Disliking extremely; entertaining a great aversion for.

 

[Grailhunter]

Luk 14:26, If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

Strong's definition:
G3404 μισέω miséō, mis-eh'-o; from a primary μῖσος mîsos (hatred); to detest (especially to persecute); by extension, to love less:—hate(-ful).

Anyway can you imagine a Roman Commander saying, I loved him less so I had him crucified.

Since we are off the topic....
How do you think that Noah feed all the carnivores on the Ark?

 

[Taken]

Have a HUGE problem to solve when it comes to the Apostle and leader of the Church Peter.

1- he denied Jesus 3 times
2- he ran from those who said he knew Jesus denying his relationship with Jesus
3- he lived a hypocritical life with the Jews and Gentiles after Pentecost
4- Paul confronts him to his face for being a hypocrite
5- Peter was a stumbling block for the weaker brother Barnabas and caused him to fall into sin as a hypocrite
6- Peter forced the gentiles with him to participate in his hypocrisy

See Galatians 2 for the details.

So according to their heretical teaching the Apostle Peter was not saved, lost his salvation and if he died was going to hell before Paul confronted Him with his sin.

hope this helps !!!

Disagree. Your points 1-2

• At the time Peter denied Jesus...
Peter had received Salvation of his soul.
• But had Not yet received Quickening of his spirit.
• As Jesus revealed, After Jesus' Return to Heaven, is When...they would receive their spirit.

It was Peters "weakness and fear" that caused him to deny Jesus.
Scripture reveals it is the Indwelling Spirit of God, the quickens our spirit, and gives strength to our spirit and comforts our spirit.
That is the factor...necessary for a man to be Strong in Faith, NOT weak, NOT fearful.

Your points 3-6.

These points are about relationships between men.

They are completely separate between An Individuals Salvation and Quickening Spiritual relationship with the Lord.

The Lord God...does not Save a man's soul, Quicken a man's spirit... then reconsider His Personal Works Within that individual... "because" men, accuse, bicker, disagree, lie, argue, cheat, quarrel ...

Men settle their own differences...that is a man's burden to bear...Gal 6:5

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

I'm not sure why you think that is just Pharisees seeing as the apostles were too. That would apply to Pentecostals today too. Do you believe the apostles or Pentecostals are wicked?

You apparently aren't reading what I wrote
I said the message was to Christian- Jews and unbelieving Jews. I talked about the theme of the entire book of Matthew, being a letter to the Jews, presenting Jesus as their Messiah? KING OF KINGS. It begins with the genealogy from David to Christ, then addresses OT prophecies, the LAW. Scholars know this book ministers to Jews more than the other gospel books.
I went to a Four Square church for 12 years and they practice the gifts of the Spirit as do Pentecostals. They would actually be grouped together.
I just stand firm that believers, true born again Christians will not lose their salvation. Salvation is a gift - not earned. None of us are worthy
There are legalist who li e by the LAW and they will be judged by it. Beware. When the LAW is read, a veil comes over your Spirit. We need to walk in the Spirit

 

[BarneyFife]

'But this man, because He continueth ever,
hath an unchangeable priesthood.
Wherefore He is able also to save them to the uttermost
that come unto God by Him,
seeing He ever liveth to make intercession for them.'
(Hebrews 7:24)

Hello @BarneyFife,

Saved to the uttermost! by Christ Jesus my Intercessor.

Praise God!

Thank you.
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Ok, so no direct answer, then?

 

[Taken]

Anyway can you imagine a Roman Commander saying, I loved him less so I had him crucified.

Since we are off the topic....
How do you think that Noah feed all the carnivores on the Ark?

God established Animals by specific KINDS.
Rather simple...examples:
Cloven hoof, chews cud, land, water, both, flys, crawling thing, fins, scales, ...
"clean, unclean"

Men establish Animals by Classifications, Species, Types, Further and further ... skeletal, etc. to minute details.

People have seen pictures, in person, heard of hundreds of different named animals and try to imagine thousands and thousands of animals on the ark... most likely hundreds of animals, not thousands.

Pretty much same as now... in Brief...
Sea animals remained in the water, eating other sea life and water plants...
Clean Birds flew, nested in the ark, ate insects...
Clean land animals ...cloven hoof, chews cud, ate stored grasses, chewed cuds.
Unclean animals ...eat grass, chew cud, ...
Clean insects, locust, grasshoppers, reproduce quickly...humans consume
Rodents reproduce quickly...meat source for unclean animals/birds.

The Age / Size of kinds of animals had no requirement.

Again men Picture ... droves of huge adult elephants, giraffes, lions etc walking (nearly hand in hand) into a big boat...
Size approx;
510 feet long
80 feet wide
50 feet high, several floors.

It's an indepth study...keeping to "kinds", clean, unclean, number, gender according to Gods requirements.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[ChristisGod]

I'm not sure why you think that is just Pharisees seeing as the apostles were too. That would apply to Pentecostals today too. Do you believe the apostles or Pentecostals are wicked?

Why would you compare the Assigned and Appointed Office by Jesus of an Apostle to a modern day Pentecostal parishioner ?

One had the real gift no questions asked and today the counterfeits run amuck, barking like dogs, roaring like lions, slain in the spirit, convulsing, rolling on the floor etc........

hope this helps !!!

 

[charity]

Ok, so no direct answer, then?

Hello @BarnyFife

I have answered you directly, several times. I do not associate myself with labels applied by man, but with what the word of God actually says.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[justbyfaith]

KJV Dictionary Definition: hate
hate
HATE, v.t. L. odi, for hodi.

1. To dislike greatly; to have a great aversion to. It expresses less than abhor, detest, and abominate, unless pronounced with a peculiar emphasis.

How long will fools hate knowledge? Prov.1.

Blessed are ye when men shall hate you. Luke 6.

The Roman tyrant was contented to be hated, if he was but feared.

2. In Scripture, it signifies to love less.

If any man come to me, and hate not father and mother, &c. Luke 14.

He that spareth the rod, hateth his son. Prov. 13.

HATE, n. Great dislike or aversion; hatred.

hated
HA'TED, pp. Greatly disliked.

hateful
HA'TEFUL, a. Odious; exciting great dislike, aversion or disgust. All sin is hateful in the sight of God and of good men.

1. That feels hatred; malignant; malevolent.

And, worse than death, to view with hateful eyes

His rival's conquest.

hatefulness
HA'TEFULNESS, n. Odiousness; the quality of being hateful, or of exciting aversion or disgust.

hating
HA'TING, ppr. Disliking extremely; entertaining a great aversion for.

Your definition does not nullify the Strong's definition that I gave...I'm not sure why you even offered it as evidence.

Anyway can you imagine a Roman Commander saying, I loved him less so I had him crucified.

Since we are off the topic....
How do you think that Noah feed all the carnivores on the Ark?

The Roman soldiers didn't kill Jesus out of hatred; and therefore your point is rather moot.

When the LAW is read, a veil comes over your Spirit.

A veil is already on the heart of the Jewish people whenever they read the law...but when anyone turns to the Lord (receiving His Spirit), the vail is taken away. Therefore, it does not come over your Spirit...it may come over your spirit if you are an unconverted Jew...but if anyone has the Spirit, there is no vail on their heart; because they have turned to the Lord.

 

[Grailhunter]

Your definition does not nullify the Strong's definition that I gave...I'm not sure why you even offered it as evidence.

It is not my definition.

 

[justbyfaith]

It is not my definition.

Regardless, it doesn't nullify the Strong's definition.

 

[Grailhunter]

Regardless, it doesn't nullify the Strong's definition.

I am not looking to nullify anything. Just simple common sense.
The NT was written mostly in a Pagan language...ie Greek. The Greco-Roman culture had no interest in putting love in their hate. Like I said find a translation that says love less.

And you did not answer my question...What did Noah feed the carnivores on the Ark?

 

[CharismaticLady]

Why would you compare the Assigned and Appointed Office by Jesus of an Apostle to a modern day Pentecostal parishioner ?

One had the real gift no questions asked and today the counterfeits run amuck, barking like dogs, roaring like lions, slain in the spirit, convulsing, rolling on the floor etc........

hope this helps !!!

Well, I know where mine are from, even if you are a doubting Thomas.

 

[OzSpen]

Have a HUGE problem to solve when it comes to the Apostle and leader of the Church Peter.

1- he denied Jesus 3 times
2- he ran from those who said he knew Jesus denying his relationship with Jesus
3- he lived a hypocritical life with the Jews and Gentiles after Pentecost
4- Paul confronts him to his face for being a hypocrite
5- Peter was a stumbling block for the weaker brother Barnabas and caused him to fall into sin as a hypocrite
6- Peter forced the gentiles with him to participate in his hypocrisy

See Galatians 2 for the details.

So according to their heretical teaching the Apostle Peter was not saved, lost his salvation and if he died was going to hell before Paul confronted Him with his sin.

hope this helps !!!

Christophany,

How, then, do you deal with "holding on to faith and a good conscience, which some have rejected and so have suffered shipwreck with regard to the faith" (1 Tim 1:19 NIV)?

Maheno shipwreck (photo 2007), Fraser Island, off the Queensland coast,
Australia (about 3 hours north of Brisbane). Image courtesy Wikipedia

Oz

 

[OzSpen]

I'm always open to your thoughts

C,

Are you open to being convinced of another biblical perspective?

Oz

 

[OzSpen]

Eternal Security is a doctrine of men who refuse to submit to God's sanctifying power to overcome the lusts of the flesh.

Isn't eternal security another name for the perseverance of the saints? Or, do you have another view on the meaning of eternal security?

 

[ChristisGod]

Christophany,

How, then, do you deal with "holding on to faith and a good conscience, which some have rejected and so have suffered shipwreck with regard to the faith" (1 Tim 1:19 NIV)?

Maheno shipwreck (photo 2007), Fraser Island, off the Queensland coast,
Australia (about 3 hours north of Brisbane). Image courtesy Wikipedia

Oz

Paul was literally shipwrecked 3 times and saved each time. He was prevented several times from getting to his final destination. But as we read he kept going on and finally reached his destination. Being shipwrecked does not mean lost. Paul was not lost but shipwrecked. The same with ones faith it can get shipwrecked but that does not mean the person is lost and cannot continue on his path. He has gone off course and delayed temporarily from his final destination.

hope this helps !!!

 

[ChristisGod]

C,

Are you open to being convinced of another biblical perspective?

Oz

We can always talk but I'm not easily persuaded.

 

[justbyfaith]

Like I said find a translation that says love less.

I don't need to find a translation that says that...for the original Greek bears it out.

And you did not answer my question...What did Noah feed the carnivores on the Ark?

Certain kinds of animals (the clean kind) were taken onto the ark in groups of seven rather than two by two.

And also, even dogs (which are carnivores) when domesticated, will eat vegetables when they are fed to them.