Those who deny Eternal Security

[justbyfaith]

Then there is 1 John 3:5 alongside of 1 Corinthians 1:2...

re #358 (Those who deny Eternal Security).

 

[justbyfaith]

lol Good try! Try to find love less for Luke 14:26

You haven't been following the conversation...

 

[Michiah-Imla]

you made that up.

there is no "before conversion" in the text.

1 John 1:8-9 KJVS

ONE:

[8] If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

TWO:

[9] If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

THREE:

1 John 3:9 KJVS

[9] Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin

It all harmonizes perfectly.

But your carnal mind can’t handle it.

You need to accomplish this:

Ephesians 4:22-24 KJV
[22] ...put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; [23] And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; [24] And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

 

[Grailhunter]

You haven't been following the conversation...

lol what did not miss?

 

[justbyfaith]

lol what did not miss?

Just looking at the same statement in a different gospel will be enough to show you that.

 

[Grailhunter]

The Greek does not use the word hate for those scriptures. They are translated correctly.
Luke 14:26 does use the Greek word for hate. And the Greek word for hate mean hate.
Now whether it is the Hebrew or the Greek hate can be in context that is different.
For example; It always means strong emotion but that can range from strong dislike, the kind of hate that develops into wrath or even insanity. But never love less. People can say anything...but the experts on languages define it as hate.

 

[Grailhunter]

You haven't been following the conversation...

Anyway can you imagine a Roman Commander saying, I loved him less so I had him crucified.

Since we are off the topic....
How do you think that Noah feed all the carnivores on the Ark?

 

[Paul Christensen]

So you are not OSAS...

Not the Antinomian version.

 

[Grailhunter]

Not the Antinomian version.

What other version is there?

 

[Paul Christensen]

And therefore, the doctrine of entire sanctification is good news to them.

Trouble with the doctrine of entire sanctification by faith is that every time one gets angry and kicks the cat, he has to go through the whole process of being re-entirely sanctified by faith. It seems to be a flip flop, up down up down sort of arrangement to me. I'd rather accept the righteousness of Christ which totally covers me, and go on living a holy life, forsaking the works of the flesh, and leave the sanctification bit to the Holy Spirit.

 

[Paul Christensen]

Humor
So you have a sin proof vest?



His death on the cross did not prevent us from sinning. And all of the aspects of that is pretty much advanced theology. But in no way did His death on the cross prevent us from sinning. That is why the NT is full, I say full of warnings about Christians sinning and the ramifications of sinning.

I reckon that the moment we were born again of the Spirit of God we became dead to sin. So how can sin have any effect on us if we are dead to it? In that sense, we are entirely sanctified the moment we were converted to Christ. I thought that was what conversion was all about - having the law of the spirit of life in Christ setting us free from the law of sin and death. So, it might be a right now - not yet type of situation.

 

[Paul Christensen]

John tells us who the liar and deceiver is below:

1:8- If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us
1:10- If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us

summary: those who say they do not sin, have not sinned are without sin are deceived, the truth is not in them, they are liars and make God out to be a liar and the word is not in them.

hope tis helps !!!

Ah! It is great to have a third horse in the developing two-horse race on this thread!

 

[Paul Christensen]

What other version is there?

Eternal security for the believer who lives a holy life and keeps running the race to secure the prize of the high calling of God in Christ.

 

[Grailhunter]

I reckon that the moment we were born again of the Spirit of God we became dead to sin. So how can sin have any effect on us if we are dead to it? In that sense, we are entirely sanctified the moment we were converted to Christ. I thought that was what conversion was all about - having the law of the spirit of life in Christ setting us free from the law of sin and death. So, it might be a right now - not yet type of situation.

Can I get you to send me one of those sin proof vests?

 

[Paul Christensen]

Can I get you to send me one of those sin proof vests?

You already have one. It is called the righteousness of Christ. "He was made sin for us that we might become the righteousness of God in Christ" A thought came to me. You have the breastplate of righteousness! That is your sin-proof vest!!!

 

[farouk]

You already have one. It is called the righteousness of Christ. "He was made sin for us that we might become the righteousness of God in Christ" A thought came to me. You have the breastplate of righteousness! That is your sin-proof vest!!!

@Paul Christensen Ephesians 6 is a great passage about the Whole Armour of God!

 

[justbyfaith]

The Greek does not use the word hate for those scriptures. They are translated correctly.
Luke 14:26 does use the Greek word for hate. And the Greek word for hate mean hate.
Now whether it is the Hebrew or the Greek hate can be in context that is different.
For example; It always means strong emotion but that can range from strong dislike, the kind of hate that develops into wrath or even insanity. But never love less. People can say anything...but the experts on languages define it as hate.

I don't think that what you are saying is true...but I will do my homework on it.

 

[justbyfaith]

Trouble with the doctrine of entire sanctification by faith is that every time one gets angry and kicks the cat, he has to go through the whole process of being re-entirely sanctified by faith. It seems to be a flip flop, up down up down sort of arrangement to me. I'd rather accept the righteousness of Christ which totally covers me, and go on living a holy life, forsaking the works of the flesh, and leave the sanctification bit to the Holy Spirit.

Understanding the imputed righteousness of Christ is a good step towards receiving His imparted righteousness...as you rest in what He did for you, you are no longer held captive to the letter of the law...and you are set free from the wet paint principle found in Romans 7:7-13...wherein the law produces in you all manner of evil desire by virtue of the fact that something is forbidden...and therefore, being set free from that principle, you are also set free from the power of temptation...and therefore the lusts of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, no longer has any effect on you.

I reckon that the moment we were born again of the Spirit of God we became dead to sin.

In what sense, if entire sanctification is not the reality? Is becoming dead to sin even a real thing; or is it just words that you use to describe nothing in particular?

 

[justbyfaith]

The Greek does not use the word hate for those scriptures. They are translated correctly.
Luke 14:26 does use the Greek word for hate. And the Greek word for hate mean hate.
Now whether it is the Hebrew or the Greek hate can be in context that is different.
For example; It always means strong emotion but that can range from strong dislike, the kind of hate that develops into wrath or even insanity. But never love less. People can say anything...but the experts on languages define it as hate.

Luk 14:26, If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

Strong's definition:
G3404 μισέω miséō, mis-eh'-o; from a primary μῖσος mîsos (hatred); to detest (especially to persecute); by extension, to love less:—hate(-ful).

 

[Paul Christensen]

Is becoming dead to sin even a real thing; or is it just words that you use to describe nothing in particular?

Being dead to sin is a spiritual reality. It is connected with the Scripture, "I am crucified with Christ (put to death with Him), nevertheless I live, yet not I, but Christ lives in me; and the life I live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God who loved me and gave Himself for me."

Look at Romans 6:1-14:
"What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? 2 By no means! We are those who have died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? 3 Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.

5 For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we will certainly also be united with him in a resurrection like his. 6 For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body ruled by sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin— 7 because anyone who has died has been set free from sin.

8 Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. 9 For we know that since Christ was raised from the dead, he cannot die again; death no longer has mastery over him. 10 The death he died, he died to sin once for all; but the life he lives, he lives to God.

11 In the same way, count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus. 12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desires. 13 Do not offer any part of yourself to sin as an instrument of wickedness, but rather offer yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life; and offer every part of yourself to him as an instrument of righteousness. 14 For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under the law, but under grace.