Thoughts about using a KJV update?

[Grailhunter]

To all:

A person is a “bible agnostic” if they don’t believe if there is no actual bible in existence or not that is the infallible words of God. The word agnostic refers to a person who is not sure if there is a God or not. While a “bible agnostic” may be a Christian and who believes in God, they don’t know if there is a perfect Bible that they can hold in their hands. So where is their authority? This is the question one must ask.

You have a lot of junk going on there and it is junk!
The modern translations do not remove scriptures unless they were added in the first place.
The NIV removes the scriptures that were not there in the older manuscripts.
The NASB includes the scriptures, but brackets them and explains that they are not in the older manuscript.
The add function is solely the KJV. Not entirely by it own merit but includes those errors of older translations and the beliefs of the time period. Both translate straight from the older manuscripts....not the Catholic Vulgate.

Bible agnostic? That is an unfair and inaccurate characterization.
If you believe that Christ has already returned....that the Apostles were living in the last days...that the time was short or shortened or He returned soon or quickly...Cannot help you there.

If you believe that the earth is flat or that stars can fall to earth...If you believe that you have to hate your mother and father to be a Christian or give away everything you own and walk around with nothing but the shirt on your back to be a Christian....you are completely messed up. What do you call that? Besides just messed up?
if you think that not believing these things makes a person a Bible agnostic.....How about living in reality. God is real and Christianity is real....people like you try to turn it into a fantasy religion and in the process worship a book. Like you do not have faith if you do not live in a fantasy world and your God is a book.

 

[Jim B]

Since the 1611 King James Bible has been revised, edited, and considerably altered since its original publication which version is the perfect one? What makes the other versions of the King James Bible imperfect?

May I respectfully suggest that you stop worshiping a book?

 

[Jim B]

You have a lot of junk going on there and it is junk!
The modern translations so not remove scriptures unless they were added in the first place.
The NIV removes the scriptures that were not there in the older manuscripts.
The NASB includes the scriptures, but brackets them and explains that they are not in the older manuscript.
The add function is solely the KJV. Not entirely by it own merit but includes those errors of older translations and the beliefs of the time period. Both translate straight from the older manuscripts....not the Catholic Vulgate.

Bible agnostic? That is an unfair and inaccurate characterization.
If you believe that Christ has already returned....that the Apostles were living in the last days...that the time was short or shortened or He returned soon or quickly...Cannot help you there.

If you believe that the earth is flat or that stars can fall to earth...If you believe that you have to hate your mother and father to be a Christian or give away everything you own and walk around with nothing but the shirt on your back to be a Christian....you are completely messed up. What do you call that? Besides just messed up?
if you think that not believing these things makes a person a Bible agnostic.....How about living in reality. God is real and Christianity is real....people like you try to turn it into a fantasy religion and in the process worship a book. Like you do not have faith if you do not live in a fantasy world and your God is a book.

GREAT POST!!!

 

[Bible Highlighter]

To all:

There are…

Four Major Positions on God’s Word:
(Or: 4 Major Views on God’s Word)

1. KJB only position (We have a perfect bible today).
   
   
2. Only the originals were inspired.
   
   
3. God’s Word exists amongst the thousands of remaining manuscripts (including their many variants) (i.e. the James White view).
   
   
4. All bibles are inspired (i.e. which would include all English bible translations).

4 Popular Wrong Approaches or Views on God’s Word:

#1. Roman Catholic Church View on God’s Word.

They believe the holy mother church and tradition define what is in the Scripture.
​

#2. Liberal View:

The Bible is full of myths, and legends.
​

#3. Neo-Orthodox View

The real issue is what the Bible teaches, not it’s historical accuracy.
​

#4. Fundamentalist View:

The Faith is established in the Bible despite its many mistakes and errors.​

​

On this second list (provided above): All these views have one thing in common.

You don’t actually have the Word of God in your hands. The Bible merely contains the Word of God.

On contrary to these views, you have the Bible believer view. King James Bible believers believe we have the inspired words of God in our hands.

There is a huge difference between the wisdom of God and the wisdom of men.

Isaiah 55:8 says, “For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.”

1 Corinthians 1:19-20 says, “For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent. Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?”

Please take note that the scribe are those who TRAN-scribe the Scriptures. They were the ones who copied the Scriptures or translated it. The Scribes would be the scholars of our day. So when you read 1 Corinthians 1:19-20, read it as referring to scholars. Granted, this is not to say that scholars cannot glean many truths from the Scriptures accurately. The point here is the Scribes or scholars approach to God’s Word overall in that it will lead them to believe we have no perfect Bible today that we can perfectly trust as God’s 100% inerrant words that we can hold in our hands now.

The Catholic Douay-Rheims Bible used to contain 1 John 5:7 but it later removed it. All the 17 verses that are omitted used to be in their older Douay-Rheims Catholic Bible. So their Bibles changed in these modern times just like other Modern Bibles. In fact, all Modern Bible are based on an inter confessional text by the United Bible Societies that was under the direct supervision of the Vatican (Nestle and Aland’s NT Greek Text).

Many today believe in a Bible that does not exist because they say that the Bible was only perfect in the originals of which they do not have.

Yet, the Bible says,

“Seek ye out of the book of the LORD, and read: no one of these shall fail, none shall want her mate: for my mouth it hath commanded, and his spirit it hath gathered them.” (Isaiah 34:16).

 

[Jim B]

Do you know what's really sad? The fact that Bible Highlighter (and others, I'm sure, only he is the most adamant) believes that the King James version of the Bible is the perfect, inerrant, actual "word of God". Will someone care to explain how someone becomes so deluded and closed-minded? There must be some need to think that way, but I'm at a loss to understand why.

Jesus said in John 14:6, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." Yes, Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life. Not some book, especially one that was created over 400 years ago and has been modified a number of times.

Would someone like to take a stab explaining this KJVO delusion? I am really interested in how somebody can be so deceived.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

To those who have ears to hear:

The NIV has the word “dragon” in Revelation 13:1, replacing the word “I” [with John speaking] in the King James Bible.

1 John 5:7 is the only verse clear verse on the Trinity. Its removed in Modern Bibles.

Colossians 1:14... the blood is taken out.

Romans 8:1 is chopped in half. the essential truth missing is that we must walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit. This truth is removed as a part of having no condemnation in Christ.

The doctrine of casting out persistent demons by fasting and prayer is removed in Matthew 17:21.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

To all:

Side Note: The TR means Textus Receptus (Which is the line of manuscripts where the King James Bible came from).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I believe the King James 1900 Cambridge Edition is the pure Word of God.

For…

So according to Psalms 12:6-7:
Why are the Lord's words pure?
Why are the Lord's words preserved forever?

Well, I believe one reason is so that we believers today can...

“...take...the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God” (Ephesians 6:17).

So as to...

Study to show ourselves approved unto God (2 Timothy 2:15).
And earnestly contend for the faith (Jude 1:3).
For all Scripture is profitable for doctrine and instruction in righteousness that the man of God may be perfect unto all good works (2 Timothy 3:16-17).

But how can we be perfect unto all good works if the faith itself is imperfect?
For faith comes by hearing and hearing the Word of God (Romans 10:17).

The KJB is the most accurate translation available in the English language today. A simple side by side comparison between the KJB vs. Modern Bibles will show you that all Modern Bibles are inferior big time if you were to do an unbiased study and be fair handed about it. Doctrines are changed (see here), commands are changed (see here), the devil's name is placed in Modern Bibles where they do not belong (see here). Modern Bibles make Jesus appear to sin (See point #24 here).

Here is a comparison between the KJB vs. Modern Bibles:

Depending on which NASB you have, the NASB has the dragon standing on the seashore instead of John (referring to himself as “I”) in Revelation 13:1.

Many Christians today love the ESV:

Lets take a look at that one.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

You have a lot of junk going on there and it is junk!
The modern translations do not remove scriptures unless they were added in the first place.
The NIV removes the scriptures that were not there in the older manuscripts.
The NASB includes the scriptures, but brackets them and explains that they are not in the older manuscript.
The add function is solely the KJV. Not entirely by it own merit but includes those errors of older translations and the beliefs of the time period. Both translate straight from the older manuscripts....not the Catholic Vulgate.

Bible agnostic? That is an unfair and inaccurate characterization.
If you believe that Christ has already returned....that the Apostles were living in the last days...that the time was short or shortened or He returned soon or quickly...Cannot help you there.

If you believe that the earth is flat or that stars can fall to earth...If you believe that you have to hate your mother and father to be a Christian or give away everything you own and walk around with nothing but the shirt on your back to be a Christian....you are completely messed up. What do you call that? Besides just messed up?
if you think that not believing these things makes a person a Bible agnostic.....How about living in reality. God is real and Christianity is real....people like you try to turn it into a fantasy religion and in the process worship a book. Like you do not have faith if you do not live in a fantasy world and your God is a book.

Again with the false accusation that KJB Only Christians worship a book. Idolatry defined in the Bible is bowing down to statues as if they were actually gods. No KJB Only Christian I know of does this kind of thing. There is nothing wrong with following the Bible and for it being our guide for all matters of faith and practice. The Bible is where we learn about GOD, and learn about His will, and instructions for us. KJB Only Christians worship God as a spirit being (as the Bible teaches).

As for my mention of bible agnostics:

Well, it’s not unfair to call those who do not believe in any perfect Bible as a “bible agnostic.” Agnostics don’t know there is a God. While Christians who reject a perfect bible may claim to know God, those who are for the Originals Only being perfect (that don’t exist) are agnostic involving the Bible. For they don’t know of any perfect bible in existence. For them, the words of God are not settled, but they are in a constant change or flux. There is no settled Word of God for you. That would be idolatry in your view. But the prophets and the apostles had in their hands portions of the original Scriptures that were perfect. So they believed Scripture was perfect. Are they idolaters? Well, that is what you must conclude if you say we are idolaters for believing that God’s words are perfect.

Moses carried the stone tablets. Moses had written the Torah under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. Was he an idolater because he had these things that were directly from God? Surely not.

That is why your position is illogical.

 

[Grailhunter]

Again with the false accusation that KJB Only Christians worship a book. Idolatry defined in the Bible is bowing down to statues as if they were actually gods. No KJB Only Christian I know of does this kind of thing. There is nothing wrong with following the Bible and for it being our guide for all matters of faith and practice. The Bible is where we learn about GOD, and learn about His will, and instructions for us. KJB Only Christians worship God as a spirit being (as the Bible teaches).

As for my mention of bible agnostics:

Well, it’s not unfair to call those who do not believe in any perfect Bible as a “bible agnostic.” Agnostics don’t know there is a God. While Christians who reject a perfect bible may claim to know God, those who are for the Originals Only being perfect (that don’t exist) are agnostic involving the Bible. For they don’t know of any perfect bible in existence. For them, the words of God are not settled, but they are in a constant change or flux. There is no settled Word of God for you. That would be idolatry in your view. But the prophets and the apostles had in their hands portions of the original Scriptures that were perfect. So they believed Scripture was perfect. Are they idolaters? Well, that is what you must conclude if you say we are idolaters for believing that God’s words are perfect. That is why your position is illogical.

The KJV is not "the" Bible. The Word of God is the scriptures. All translations are the work of men.....the word of men. The difference is how accurate they are to the manuscripts. The KJV has failed that. The translations are a tool for English speaking people who do not want to reference the actual scriptures on their own...for various reasons. The Word of God are the manuscripts, the translations are the work of men...as far as the KJV, it is the opinion of men. No translation is perfect, but the KJV is heavily flawed.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

There is an attack upon God’s Word by Satan.
Some are subtle attacks whereby you would not notice them, and there are blatant attacks.

Here are some puke worthy Modern Bibles.

https://www.amazon.com/LOLcat-Bible-beginnin-Ceiling-stuffs/dp/1569757348/

https://www.amazon.com/Word-Street-Rob-Lacey/dp/0310932254/

Sample pages of this rubbish to see what I am talking about:

the word on the street the street bible Grand Rapids ... Bible_IntroGen1-3.pdf the word on the street - [PDF Document]

There are others like the Queen James Bible, the Inclusive Bible, and the New World Translation, etc.

But don’t kid yourself that your Modern Bible like the NIV, NASB, ESV, CSB is any better in that it does not mock God’s Word. It does. The change of doctrines is all that is needed and the subtle attacks against God’s good character and salvation.

The LOLCat Bible Translation and the Word on the Street Translation are not much different than other Modern Versions (like the NIV, NLT, ESV, etc). They are a more of a distant cousin, but they are still related because all Modern versions mock the real pure Word of God in that they attack the Trinity, the blood atonement, the deity of Christ, 2 Timothy 2:15, Psalms 12:6-7, the doctrine on fasting to cast out persistent demons, and much much more. But the problem is that because these attacks are subtle, folks just turn a blind eye to these problems.

Now, if one was liberal, the LOLCat Bible Translation would suit them well. But the issue is just how liberal can we be with God’s Word? Sure, we may not be liberal LOLCat Bible Translation followers, but if we follow the problem in the Modern Versions (like the NIV, NLT, ESV, etc), we will end believing wrong things that God did not intend for us to believe. Yes, there are true core fundamental doctrines or teachings that most all Bibles teach, but to not notice the subtle changes is dangerous in my humble opinion because that is how the devil attacked Eve with his change on God’s command.

So get yourself a real Bible (i.e. the King James Bible Cambridge Edition circa. 1900).
Don’t settle for anything less than a perfect Bible.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

The Word of God are the manuscripts, the translations are the work of men...

Your constant attack on the Bible is a work of men.

“Concerning the works of men, by the word of thy lips I have kept me from the paths of the destroyer.” (Psalms 17:4)

 

[Bible Highlighter]

To all:

In the Bible: We can see a pattern of God preserving copies of His Word, and not the original autographs:

(a) Moses destroyed the original 10 Commandments on tablets of stone (the original autograph) (Exodus 32:19), and yet a copy was perfectly made to replace it (Exodus 34:1-4).

(b) King Jehoiakim burns the scroll of Jeremiah (Jeremiah 36:22-23), but God had Jeremiah make another copy (Jeremiah 36:27-28).

(c) Proverbs 25:1 says, “These are also proverbs of Solomon, which the men of Hezekiah king of Judah copied out.” (Proverbs 25:1).​

In the New Testament, Philip heard the Ethiopian eunuch read from a manuscript of Isaiah.

“And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest?” (Acts of the Apostles 8:30).​

Although Scripture does not specifically say this was a copy of Isaiah, and not the original autograph of Isaiah, logic dictates that the most plausible explanation is that the Ethiopian eunuch had a copy of a manuscript of Isaiah (and not the original). For the odds of him just happening to have the original would seem highly unlikely.

Philip calls this copy of Isaiah he possessed as Scripture.

“Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.” (Acts of the Apostles 8:35).​

2 Timothy 3:16 says all Scripture is given by inspiration of God.
So the copy of this Scripture was inspired by God.

So the belief of “Originals Onlyist” that says that we need to look to the original autograph because it is perfect, and the copies are flawed and full of errors is unbiblical. Believers in God's Word can trust that God has preserved a copy of His Word for us today that is perfect (Which would be consistent in the way God operates involving the preservation of His Word). This then leads us to conclude that there must be a perfect Bible that we can find today. Well.. that is if you believe the Bible.

 

[Grailhunter]

Your constant attack on the Bible is a work of men.

“Concerning the works of men, by the word of thy lips I have kept me from the paths of the destroyer.” (Psalms 17:4)

There is no "The" Bible. We are talking about an archaic translation of the scriptures.
Now there are "The" scriptures as in manuscripts.
I have already given the KJV credit for many things....it is just not a study Bible.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

There is no "The" Bible. We are talking about an archaic translation of the scriptures.
Now there are "The" scriptures as in manuscripts.
I have already given the KJV credit for many things....it is just not a study Bible.

No offense, but if a person knows all of what you believe, I don’t think anyone who is honest about what the Bible says is going to take you seriously; For you fall into the liberal camp by your previous statements, friend.

1. You believe in Evolution, and we came from apes,
2. You said you have fellowshipped with many denominations (ecumenism),
3. You lean towards a local flood,
4. You did not appear to know what sodomy was when we first talked about it,
5. You believe you can know God outside of the Bible,
6. You think Christians can celebrate Halloween (Which is a day that glorifies witchcraft, darkness, and death), and
7. You mocked the words of Jesus in Luke 14:26 and imply that these words cannot be the correct words of our Lord Jesus (Note: the words of Jesus that say, “If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, etc.” also appears in many Modern Translations and it is not exclusive to the King James Bible).​

You basically implied that my position of regarding God’s Word as perfect… it is idolatry. This is not surprising because you fall into the classic liberal camp (not based on what I say, but by a basic internet search on what Liberal Christianity is). You don’t regard the bible as the one and only way to know GOD. So why are you bothering to study the Bible? Well, don’t get too serious about any of those words in your shapeshifter bible (or bibles), or you may be treating it as an idol.

Anyways, this explains why you did not deal with certain verses I put forth in this thread like post #854. It’s because dealing with explaining these verses is not possible for you. You either simply don’t understand them and or don’t accept what they say. You can just say… “that’s an error or mistake in the Bible” because you don’t like or understand what it says. It’s because you have a holey bible (full of holes and errors), and not a Holy Bible (a perfect and divine Word).

But I will stick with believing God’s Word by faith because faith comes by hearing, and hearing the Word of God (Romans 10:17). For without faith, it is impossible to please Him (GOD) (Hebrews 11:6).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

1 Thessalonians 2:13 says:
“For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.”

 

[Jim B]

There is an attack upon God’s Word by Satan.
Some are subtle attacks whereby you would not notice them, and there are blatant attacks.

Here are some puke worthy Modern Bibles.

https://www.amazon.com/LOLcat-Bible-beginnin-Ceiling-stuffs/dp/1569757348/

https://www.amazon.com/Word-Street-Rob-Lacey/dp/0310932254/

Sample pages of this rubbish to see what I am talking about:

the word on the street the street bible Grand Rapids ... Bible_IntroGen1-3.pdf the word on the street - [PDF Document]

There are others like the Queen James Bible, the Inclusive Bible, and the New World Translation, etc.

But don’t kid yourself that your Modern Bible like the NIV, NASB, ESV, CSB is any better in that it does not mock God’s Word. It does. The change of doctrines is all that is needed and the subtle attacks against God’s good character and salvation.

The LOLCat Bible Translation and the Word on the Street Translation are not much different than other Modern Versions (like the NIV, NLT, ESV, etc). They are a more of a distant cousin, but they are still related because all Modern versions mock the real pure Word of God in that they attack the Trinity, the blood atonement, the deity of Christ, 2 Timothy 2:15, Psalms 12:6-7, the doctrine on fasting to cast out persistent demons, and much much more. But the problem is that because these attacks are subtle, folks just turn a blind eye to these problems.

Now, if one was liberal, the LOLCat Bible Translation would suit them well. But the issue is just how liberal can we be with God’s Word? Sure, we may not be liberal LOLCat Bible Translation followers, but if we follow the problem in the Modern Versions (like the NIV, NLT, ESV, etc), we will end believing wrong things that God did not intend for us to believe. Yes, there are true core fundamental doctrines or teachings that most all Bibles teach, but to not notice the subtle changes is dangerous in my humble opinion because that is how the devil attacked Eve with his change on God’s command.

So get yourself a real Bible (i.e. the King James Bible Cambridge Edition circa. 1900).
Don’t settle for anything less than a perfect Bible.

You are clearly out of your mind! Has using the King James Bible Cambridge Edition circa. 1900 so destroyed your thinking that you cannot be rational any longer?

You need to buy a good translation such as the NIV and find out what God's word truly says. Or it may be too late!

P.S. You missed this in your list: Skyhorse Publishing presents the Fisherman's Bible

 

[Grailhunter]

No offense, but if a person knows all of what you believe, I don’t think anyone who is honest about what the Bible says is going to take you seriously; For you fall into the liberal camp by your previous statements, friend.

1. You believe in Evolution, and we came from apes,
2. You said you have fellowshipped with many denominations (ecumenism),
3. You lean towards a local flood,
4. You did not appear to know what sodomy was when we first talked about it,
5. You believe you can know God outside of the Bible,
6. You think Christians can celebrate Halloween (Which is a day that glorifies witchcraft, darkness, and death), and
7. You mocked the words of Jesus in Luke 14:26 and imply that these words cannot be the correct words of our Lord Jesus (Note: the words of Jesus that say, “If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, etc.” also appears in many Modern Translations and it is not exclusive to the King James Bible).

Ok, so you believe that anyone that does not believe what you believe falls into the liberal camp. I am thinking you do not know the definition of liberal.
1. yes I am a person of science....
2. There is nothing wrong with liking Christians....
3. Local flood.....like neighborhood?
4. Sodomy....LOL....I was trying to get you to define sodomy.
5. Yep, me and kids went trick or treating.
6. So you think that to be a Christian you have to hate your own father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters. And yes it is in the manuscripts so any accurate Bible will include this verse....so also the verse about stars falling to earth and giving away everything you own....But unlike accurate Bibles the KJV has added things that do not belong there and re-worded scriptures...it is very long list.

You basically implied that my position of regarding God’s Word as perfect… it is idolatry.

This is a false accusation. The Word of God is in the manuscripts. Any and all Bibles are men translating the scriptures. The problem with KJV is a lot of it is not in the manuscripts and are the word of man. And your reverence of the KJV is reverence of an inanimate object.

You don’t regard the bible as the one and only way to know GOD.

How crazy is this? The KJV is the only way! Oh my! How many thousands were lead to Christ even before the New Testament was written? The first bound Bible did not occur for another 300 years, so how many thousands were saved before that.....and even that does not matter because those Bibles were not given to the public. The Catholic church forbid copying the Bible so bits and pieces were being smuggled around by William Tyndale in the early 1500's but still distribution of the Bible could not occur in numbers until the Guttenberg press was invented in the mid 1400's and it was still illegal according to the Catholics for him to print the Bible.

And there are places today in communist countries that the Bible is illegal and people preach the scriptures and still get saved.
So you could not be more wrong.

So why are you bothering to study the Bible?

I study accurate Bibles and the manuscripts...

Anyways, this explains why you did not deal with certain verses I put forth in this thread like post #854. It’s because dealing with explaining these verses is not possible for you. You either simply don’t understand them and or don’t accept what they say. You can just say… “that’s an error or mistake in the Bible” because you don’t like or understand what it says. It’s because you have a holey bible (full of holes and errors), and not a Holy Bible (a perfect and divine Word).

You have so much wrong going on in your head that it would be a career trying to straighten it all out.

 

[Jim B]

1 Thessalonians 2:13 says:
“For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.”

Here is that verse in English, accurately translated: And so we too constantly thank God that when you received God’s message that you heard from us, you accepted it not as a human message, but as it truly is, God’s message, which is at work among you who believe."

"the word of God" mentioned is not the Bible, especially not a reference to the KJV.
How do you hear anything "of us"? Reputation?
What kind of language is "effectually worketh also"? Much better is "which is at work among you"

Paul never wrote anything in such bizarre language.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

You need to buy a good translation such as the NIV and find out what God's word truly says. Or it may be too late!

The NIV (New International Version) was the first translation I ever bought. After reading the entire NIV I prayed to God about the NIV translation. I said, Lord if this isn’t your word get it out of my hands. Not long after I was shown how the modern Bibles are corrupted.

In my second year in the faith I began using the King James Bible and it’s been a life changer! The NIV didn’t have a life changing effect on me.

My preference of the KJV is not based on ignorance, it is based on prayer and experience.

@Jim B you need to do some soul searching in yourself and find out why you are soo filled with hate and animosity toward the KJV. This is a spiritual matter and it’s serious.