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Featured Three earth ages

Discussion in 'Christian Theology Forum' started by n2thelight, Jul 25, 2019.

  1. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    Likewise.
     
  2. n2thelight

    n2thelight Well-Known Member

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    I know ,but as the old saying goes,a broken clock is right 2 times a day,well once if military time :)

    I don't base this doctrine on mormon beliefs as it's straight from scripture I think someone posted from Peter,I again supply those verses

    II Peter 3:5 "For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:"

    Most Christians today, and all of the worldly people today are willingly placing their selves in ignorance on this matter of the creation. Old as it is spoken of here is very ancient, goes far back before the time of Noah and Adam, and even before the creation of the animal world and the earth age as we know it now. Peter is telling you that in the far past, there was a first earth age. Not a different world or planet, but the same planet [earth] existing in a time frame prior to as the earth exist today. The same world, but a different world age or time frame.

    II Peter 3:6 "Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:"

    That world age or cosmos that existed in that ancient time of the past, and everything that was a part of it was destroyed completely. All life on it was completely done away with. God destroyed it completely and it happened at Satan's overthrow. Many people believe that this flood was the flood of Noah's day, however, the flood of Noah's day did not destroy this world age, life from before that flood carried right over into the dispensation that followed one year later, after the waters had subsided.

    Even in the first two verses of Genesis, God declared that there was a first earth age. Lets go there and study what the Word actually says there.

    Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth."

    There are two bodies mentioned in this verse; the heaven and the earth. It simply states a fact, and left the time factor out. This verse not only did not say when, but left it totally to our imagination, as to the eternal span of time, and who the creation took place. In Proverbs 8:22we read of wisdom speaking through Solomon. Wisdom is God, for all wisdom is of God. "The Lord possessed me in the beginning of His ways, before the works of old." What works of old could this be? It is the old earth age, spoken of in Revelation 12.

    Proverbs 8:23 "I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was."

    This is stating that wisdom was with God, and He possessed me.

    Proverbs 8:24 "When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water."

    Before there was any need of an abyss, or pit, and the water to fill them, God's wisdom was there.

    Proverbs 8:25 "Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth:"

    Before the earth even took on its present form, with the high mountains and rolling hills, God's wisdom was there. God's wisdom played part in the creation of this earth, and all wisdom comes from God.

    Proverbs 8:26 "While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the high part [beginning] of the dust of the world."

    God was even there before that first Adam, or speck of dust of the earth was formed.

    Proverbs 8:27 "When he prepared the heavens and set a compass (circle) upon the face of the depth:"

    Proverbs 8:28 "And when he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep:"

    Proverbs 8:29 "When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the fountains of the earth:"

    In other words what this is saying is that there was land, and oceans, and fields and lakes, and God set His commandment that they should be separated through the "compass" which He set: and we call it "gravity" today. This is the force that separates all water from dry land. When the waves hit the rocks of the shoreline, they resend back into the sea.
     
  3. n2thelight

    n2thelight Well-Known Member

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    God allowed Job to be tested by both Satan and his fellow man, in the book of Job. However, after 37 chapters of man's nonsense, ramblings, and bad advise by those around Job, God spoke to Job.

    Job 38:1, 2: "Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said, Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?"

    Job had been tested to the point of losing his entire family, all his property, and he had been inflicted by sores and sickness, yet he did not curse God. He was in a poor frame of mind when God again came to Job. Job had been listening to the trash of men's doctrines for the first thirty seven verses of the book of Job, and now Job was ready to put those ramblings aside of other men, and listen directly to God.

    Job 38:3 "Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou Me."

    God told Job to straighten up and be a man, and listen to what He is about to tell Job. Then God spells out in detail how He laid out the foundations of the earth and the heaven, and all matters concerning them. Then in the rest of Job 38 and 39 God reveals the wisdom that we read about in Proverbs 8.

    God told Job how He put the universe all together. Our God is infinite in wisdom and power, yet His love for His children is so great that He allowed Himself to be killed as a man, on the cross at Calvary hill. It was this act of love that made it possible for mankind to except Him as their Savior and approach Him as His child.

    So there is a complete separation between Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2. Genesis 1:1 is the first creation of heaven and earth, while Genesis 1:2 is the destruction of this earth after the fall or rebellion of Satan.

    Genesis 1:2 "And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep."

    Who is the Spirit of God? He is the Holy Spirit, and it is God's Spirit that moved upon the face of the waters. In the Hebrew text the translation of the word, "was" as used in this verse "...the earth was without form,..."; we see in the Massorah test it reads "(to become) without form...". The earth was not created a ruin but it became a ruin after the fall of Satan. It is the translators that changed the word from became, to was when they put it into English. This is the same thing that happened in Genesis 2:7 "...and man became a living soul."

    The correct translation of the Hebrew from the Massoretic text for these words, "...without form..." is "tohu-va-bohu". So we see that the earth was not created "without form", but it became [tohu] without form and void". Lets go to Strong's Hebrew dictionary, reference number 1961 to verify the word "was", that we read in this verse. "Hayah, haw-yaw; a prime root, to exit; to become, or come to pass."

    Now lets continue in the Strong's Hebrew dictionary to get the pure meaning for the word "void". # 2258, on page 36 tells us that we have to go to # 2254 for the prime root word for the meaning of the word "void". "Chabal, khaw-bal; to wind tightly as a rope, to bind, to pervert, destroy, to corrupt, spoil, travail." This corresponds with its other use in # 2255, which is "to ruin".

    "Tohu" of the earth, then means that total destruction has come to pass upon the earth. The second "was" in the verse is in italics type because there is no verb "to be" in the Hebrew language. This is one of the problems in translating Hebrew into English, the verb "to be" is not distinguished from the verb, "to become".

    At the end of the first earth age of Genesis 1:1 that age ceased to exist in its precious form. God created the earth to be inhabited, and then He destroyed it. There was an entire earth age that existed between the first two verses of Genesis. This first earth age is spoken of inJeremiah, Proverbs, and Jude, as well as in II Peter. We will look into these Scriptures and try to understand the deeper meaning of our Father's Word.

    If you don't understand that there was a first earth age, you will not understand why God would say in Malachi 1:3; "And I hated Esau...". God hated Esau even while he was in his mother's womb. It was in the first earth age that God hated Esau, because of what he was and did in that first earth age. It was what Esau's soul did in that age, that angered God so; and that anger passed on to the embryo of Esau when his soul entered into this earth age. This is also recorded in Romans 9:13.

    Genesis 1:2 then verifies that our earth is far older then 6000 years old, when in fact it is probably millions of years old. However, no matter how old this earth is, it is the only place in the universe that mankind, and the animals can exist in the flesh form that we are in and survive. We do not worship the creation, but we worship the creator, our Heavenly Father. God is in control of all of His creation, and He destroyed all forms of life that lived on earth from that first earth age.

    Isaiah 45:18 "For thus saith the Lord That created the heavens: God Himself formed the earth and made it; He hath established it, He created it not in vain, He formed it to be inhabited: "I am the Lord; and there is none else." "

    God is speaking and Isaiah is writing what God is saying down, and God is telling us that when He created the earth, it was not in vain. "Vain" as used here is the same Hebrew word that we saw in Genesis 1:2, which was given as "void", or ruin. God created this earth to be lived on, and to be inhabited. Genesis 1:1 told us that God created the earth to be inhabited. "Tohu", the "destruction", was not part of the creation plan, but came after the fall of Satan, when one third of all the souls followed Satan in the first earth age, in verse two.

    So when we go back into II Peter 3:6, "Whereby the world that then was, being over-flowed with water, perished." We see that it was that earth age that perish, and all that was part of it. It became void at the rebellion of Satan when he drew one third of the souls with him. This is what Revelation 12:1 - 4 is all about. It was in the first earth age that this took place, and what happened then is a type of what shall happen again in our generation.
     
  4. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    This is false teaching.
     
  5. n2thelight

    n2thelight Well-Known Member

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    Okay so tell me why did God hate Easu before he was even born????????If your response is He knows everything,don't bother....
     
  6. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    God is outside of time (Isaiah 57:15).
     
  7. n2thelight

    n2thelight Well-Known Member

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    So you telling me ,my Father would create a being knowing that said being will be sentenced to death?
    Don't know what kind of God you serve but it's not mine.

    I'll leave you with the verse you based your knowledge on.


    Isaiah 57:15 "For thus saith the high and lofty One That inhabiteth eternity, Whose name is Holy; "I dwell in the high and holy place, with him also that is of a contrite and humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble, and to revive the heart of the contrite ones."

    This is YHVH the Father asking you if you want to go there to be with Him. God will revive your crushed and contrite heart and spirit, and he will put the His Spirit back into your heart and mind when you allow Him to do so. Today there are many hearts and minds that are crushed and damaged by the false doctrine and traditions that is being peddled as being of God. When you turn to God and His Word for help, and seek repentance for your sins in Jesus name, His Spirit will revive your spirit, but it is you that must do the asking and the seeking. God is not going to dump Himself on you and force you to take what is against your spirit. That is why He gave you free will.

    Start at the first verse or better yet start Isaiah 56.
     
  8. n2thelight

    n2thelight Well-Known Member

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    Look up the word foreknew, then lets go to Romans

    Strong's Greek Lexicon Search Results


    Result of search for "foreknow":
    4267.
    proginosko prog-in-oce'-ko from 4253 and 1097; to know beforehand, i.e. foresee:--foreknow (ordain), know (before).



    Romans 8:29 "For whom He did foreknow, He also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren."

    He foreknew them in the first earth age, and their success and love for Him. These are "the elect" of God, and in that first earth age God also predestinated them to be similar, or like the image of Jesus Christ [His son]. This is referring to the "only begotten Son of God" who died on the cross and arose again after the third day, and now sits on the right hand of the Father in heaven to be our advocate.
     
  9. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    Hi @n2thelight,

    I agree that predestination is according to foreknowledge (according to the definition you have given); but concerning what you said in post #127:

    I would simply quote to you what it says in Romans:

    Rom 9:16, So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
    Rom 9:17, For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
    Rom 9:18, Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
    Rom 9:19, Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
    Rom 9:20, Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
    Rom 9:21, Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
    Rom 9:22, What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
    Rom 9:23, And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
    Rom 9:24, Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

    Now I want you to know, that if you would look at my posting history, you would find that I have contended against Calvinistic theology in times past. They go too far in believing that foreknowledge is predestination.

    And also, I believe that we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand; and that therefore our salvation depends not on the Lord's arbitrary commandment and choice before the beginning of time, but on whether we will have faith in Jesus during our lifetime.

    But God knows about this (what choice we will make; whether for or against Him) ahead of time; because He is outside of time.

    Why would God choose to create, knowing that some would choose to reject Him; and that His only option for them from that point would be to cast them into eternal fire?

    Evidently He felt that the ones who would choose to receive Him in love would make everything worth it. Also I think that there is something in the Lord that takes pleasure in justice. Even though His love would find more pleasure in the person being redeemed, the Lord takes pleasure in meting out justice to the sinner; because it is good and right that the sinner be punished for all of his iniquities. God is able to show mercy to the sinner and also not have His justice be compromised, in that He took our place on the Cross and justice was executed on Christ instead of us, over the sins that we have committed.

    God created the world knowing that He would pay this price. And therefore, when people reject God's offer of a free gift, they are choosing to be punished in hell for all of eternity. Because the Lord is a God of justice; and hell is the just due for their iniquity.
     
  10. n2thelight

    n2thelight Well-Known Member

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    No He didn't,He created the world and all that were in it,perfect.It's only because of the rebellion satan we are where we are now.

    I know you or I are not God so don't think I'm implying such,but why would He create that which would be destroyed?

    You feel God knows who shall choose Him,I don't think He does,as it would be no purpose ...
     
  11. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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  12. n2thelight

    n2thelight Well-Known Member

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    Guess we finished here
     
  13. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    Yes, You either accept the testimony of God's word or else you don't.

    Heb 3:15, While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.
    Heb 3:16, For some, when they had heard, did provoke: howbeit not all that came out of Egypt by Moses.
    Heb 3:17, But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness?
    Heb 3:18, And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not?
    Heb 3:19, So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.
    Heb 4:1, Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
    Heb 4:2, For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
     
  14. farouk

    farouk Well-Known Member

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    The Lord Jesus is indeed Alpha and Omega (Revelation 1).
     
    justbyfaith likes this.
  15. n2thelight

    n2thelight Well-Known Member

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    Quoting verses is great,but even satan can do that,the key is to read with understanding.....
     
  16. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    You are treading on dangerous ground.

    I quoted those verses under inspiration of the Holy Spirit.

    And to reject what the Holy Spirit is saying as being of satan is tantamount to the unpardonable sin.
     
  17. n2thelight

    n2thelight Well-Known Member

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    See, that's my point,reading with understanding,as satan does know scripture ,better than most christians.
    Like I said anyone can quote scripture,however what does said scripture mean .satan quoted scripture to Christ

    So I ask,where is my treading on dangerous ground?
     
  18. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    Already told you.

    Also, i suggest you understand the scripture that I have brought to your attention.
     
  19. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member

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    I don't believe in Calvinism either, but I do believe that God 'chooses' not to know who will believe or not believe. I believe He gave all free will. Otherwise, our love to Him would not be real.

    But some brethren get confused when they read about His chosen sent ones, those whom He divinely intervened with, taking their doubt away, and basically removing their choice. Apostle Paul is the best example since he was persecuting Christ's Church up to the very time when Jesus 'personally' converted him. Jesus appeared to Abraham, to Moses, even told Jeremiah He knew him before he was in his mother's womb. All these examples show predestination towards election. It means God already owned those, because He does not do this for every believer. John 17 has much to say on this with our Lord's prayer, showing that He sent His Apostles into this world, that they first belonged to The Father and The Father gave them to Jesus. So how do we explain this great distinction between those called vs. those called and chosen?

    There actually are Bible Scriptures pointing to a previous world prior to Adam and Eve. By the time the serpent (Satan) appears in God's Garden of Eden to tempt Adam and Eve, he was already in his role as tempter, showing that he had previously fallen from Heaven by rebelling against God.

    In Ezekiel 28, with God using the titles of the prince and king of Tyrus (means 'rock'), God reveals that He created Satan perfect in his ways originally, until iniquity was found in him. He shows how Satan was created as an anointed cherub that covereth (his job was to guard the Mercy Seat). Just when was that? If one says it was sometime between Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 3, then they cannot provide any Scripture to support that.

    And He also showed there how that one will be destroyed on earth by a fire burning him up within himself, which is pointing to the lake of fire, and a judgment and sentencing to perish. No flesh man is yet judged and sentenced to perish in the lake of fire today. Only Satan and his angels are so far. So there's several ways to know that God is only using the titles of the flesh prince and king of Tyrus, but really speaking about Satan there.

    Here is another metaphorical Scripture example like the one in Ezekiel 28. After a while you should realize God is not speaking of flesh kings:

    Ezek 31:2-18
    2 Son of man, speak unto Pharaoh king of Egypt, and to his multitude; "Whom art thou like in thy greatness?
    3 Behold, the Assyrian was a cedar in Lebanon with fair branches, and with a shadowing shroud, and of an high stature; and his top was among the thick boughs.

    Ezekiel is told to go speak this to Pharaoh. Then he gives him what God said, and begins a allegorical comparison about "the Assyrian". If you're not familiar with how God used that title of "the Assyrian" in the Book of Isaiah, you should be. At the end of Isaiah 30 God uses that title when speaking of Satan who is already sentenced to perish in the lake of fire, using Tophet, a perpetual burning garbage pit outside Jerusalem as a symbol for that fire. Later on in this chapter, you'll see other points to show God is not speaking of a flesh king of Assyria, but about Satan himself.

    The "cedar in Lebanon" is a phrase used in OT Scripture often to point to royalty (Ezek.17; Dan.4; Zech.11). He is still using "the Assyrian" here to point to Satan, but it is back in the time of old before Satan rebelled, which will be discovered here later. That idea of his being like a high cedar, with fair branches, high stature, etc., is to show how Satan was originally exalted by our Heavenly Father prior to his rebellion.

    4 The waters made him great, the deep set him up on high with her rivers running round about his plants, and sent out her little rivers unto all the trees of the field.
    5 Therefore his height was exalted above all the trees of the field, and his boughs were multiplied, and his branches became long because of the multitude of waters, when he shot forth.

    Since this is really not about the flesh king of Assyria, but instead being used to point to Satan when God originally exalted him; what "waters" that made him great do you think those were? Do you remember reading about God's River in Genesis 2, flowed out of His Garden of Eden on earth to feed four other rivers on earth? Do you recall Revelation 22 and Ezekiel 47 about the return of that River to the earth in Christ's future Kingdom? You have to understand the usage here of these as symbols for something deeper that happened long ago, even prior to Adam and Eve.


    6 All the fowls of heaven made their nests in his boughs, and under his branches did all the beasts of the field bring forth their young, and under his shadow dwelt all great nations.


    This isn't the time to lose focus on this. God began using the analogy of a high cedar when speaking about "the Assyrian", compared him to how he was exalted high above the other trees, planted by great waters that made him great, and then He throws this "and under his shadow dwelt all great nations." Oh, that's just talking about the flesh king of Assyria and all the great nations that were under his power during this present world which God gave him, right? No, we find out later this present world is not when that was. The fact that our Heavenly Father changed the subject of His allegory all of a sudden to those "great nations" was to wake us up to pay more attention to this.


    7 Thus was he fair in his greatness, in the length of his branches: for his root was by great waters.
    8 The cedars in the garden of God could not hide him: the fir trees were not like his boughs, and the chestnut trees were not like his branches; nor any tree in the garden of God was like unto him in his beauty.

    9 I have made him fair by the multitude of his branches: so that all the trees of Eden, that were in the garden of God, envied him.

    Wait a minute. No flesh king of Assyria was ever in God's Garden of Eden. We are shown in Scripture that only Adam and Eve, and that old serpent were in God's Eden, not a flesh king of Assyria. Do you believe me now, that God is speaking an allegory here about Satan, simply using the title of "the Assyrian" as a label, and is pointing to the time of old before Satan rebelled? If you don't see, then maybe one day you will.

    Per the allegory in Ezekiel 28 about Satan, God said He made him the 'full pattern', pointing to the image of man, after God's Own Image. God said there that his heart was lifted up because of his beauty. That was when Satan was originally perfect in his ways following God.

    (Cont.)
     
  20. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member

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    (Cont.)

    10 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thou hast lifted up thyself in height, and he hath shot up his top among the thick boughs, and his heart is lifted up in his height;
    11 I have therefore delivered him into the hand of the mighty one of the heathen; he shall surely deal with him: I have driven him out for his wickedness.
    12 And strangers, the terrible of the nations, have cut him off, and have left him: upon the mountains and in all the valleys his branches are fallen, and his boughs are broken by all the rivers of the land; and all the people of the earth are gone down from his shadow, and have left him.
    13 Upon his ruin shall all the fowls of the heaven remain, and all the beasts of the field shall be upon his branches:
    14 To the end that none of all the trees by the waters exalt themselves for their height, neither shoot up their top among the thick boughs, neither their trees stand up in their height, all that drink water: for they are all delivered unto death, to the nether parts of the earth, in the midst of the children of men, with them that go down to the pit.
    15 Thus saith the Lord GOD; In the day when he went down to the grave I caused a mourning: I covered the deep for him, and I restrained the floods thereof, and the great waters were stayed: and I caused Lebanon to mourn for him, and all the trees of the field fainted for him.
    16 I made the nations to shake at the sound of his fall, when I cast him down to hell with them that descend into the pit: and all the trees of Eden, the choice and best of Lebanon, all that drink water, shall be comforted in the nether parts of the earth.
    17 They also went down into hell with him unto them that be slain with the sword; and they that were his arm, that dwelt under his shadow in the midst of the heathen.
    18 To whom art thou thus like in glory and in greatness among the trees of Eden? yet shalt thou be brought down with the trees of Eden unto the nether parts of the earth: thou shalt lie in the midst of the uncircumcised with them that be slain by the sword. This is Pharaoh and all his multitude, saith the Lord GOD.
    KJV

    You might have a hard time understanding that allegory God gave there about Satan and his once being exalted, and then his fall. Understand that only Satan and his angels so far have already been judged and sentenced to perish in the future lake of fire. No flesh king of Assyria, nor Pharoah has yet, not even Judas who betrayed our Lord Jesus. And there certainly were no 'nations' existing back when Satan first rebelled in coveting God's Throne, or were there??? -

    Rev 12:3-4
    3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

    4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
    KJV

    All of that in red above is of the same timing. That system of 7 heads, 10 horns, and 7 crowns happened long ago, when Satan drew a third of those stars (put for angels) to earth with him when he first fell.
     
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