Tis Is The Season!!!

[Lute]

God didn't need anything more than himself and yet he opted to create us... Why? For his glory.
Romans tells us he reveals his glorious self in creation.
Colossians tells us Christ is IN all creation.

If we keep silent than the rocks shall cry out... creation sings to the glory of God. Everything was made by him, through him, and for him, for his glory.


Once more, it's our perversion of what he's made that's bad. Creation itself is good. To depart from this you'd have to call God a liar and explain to me how what he called good wasn't really good.


That has nothing to do with your original statement whatsoever.


They traveled on ships, boats, donkeys, etc. Nowhere does God tell us to travel by car.
This is simply taking your argument and applying it to something else. Simply because God doesn't tell us to do it doesn't make it bad.

God never commanded us to put on Christmas Pageants, either, I guess those are wicked garbage as well? Grab your pitchforks, head out to the churches!

well i dont disagree with your first statement at all. i fail to see how cutting down a tree an dragging it into our house has anything to do with Gods glory through creation. like i said if we wanted to celebrate his birth. dont you think scripture put up all around your house would better represent him? not something that was invented in the 1850's(as we know it today)

now for the transportation thing. yes i see that you are taking my argument and applying it to something else. thats exactly why i did not incorporate cars into my argument. they have nothing to do with worship or representation of anything. they have a practical use. God gave us cars for a reason. he gave us trees for a reason. and i guarantee it was not to decorate them in our homes and streets. the Jewish culture never even celebrated birth anyways. they celebrated death. and thats what we should be doing. celebrating his death not his birth. yeah we should honor his birth and thank him for coming as a pure sacrifice. but i dont see half the celebration around the time of his death and resurection. it is a quite lowly holiday. unpublicized(except for the pagan side that was incorporated into it). his death and resurection should be the biggest celebration in the Christian world.

i am not saying we should not celebrate his birth at all. but that we should do it an a pure manner. and not some man made way. and since there is no way specified in the bible i think we should stick to praise music and proclaiming his word as celebration of his birth AND death. but more so at his death and resurrection. because that was much more important.

 

[TexUs]

well i dont disagree with your first statement at all. i fail to see how cutting down a tree an dragging it into our house has anything to do with Gods glory through creation. like i said if we wanted to celebrate his birth. dont you think scripture put up all around your house would better represent him? not something that was invented in the 1850's(as we know it today)

It's pretty... God is revealed through pretty things...
Why do you decorate your house?????? Do you live in a white walled house with nothing on them? What's the point in decorations of ANY kind, then?

they have a practical use

So decorations are not practical? According to whom? See my point? You're applying your opinion to practicality.

and i guarantee it was not to decorate them in our homes and streets

The trees clap their hands... To the glory of God. That's in the Bible. As long as it's used to that degree, what difference does it make?
You are, once more, applying your opinion to judge what their uses were.

What's your definition of uses? Should the people that used it as a torture device be condemned? Truth be told, torture devices didn't generally bring about the Glory of God. Isn't that what Christ was killed on though?
So once more, the issue is not the thing, it's the usage.

and since there is no way specified in the bible i think we should

You don't see the flaw in what you're doing here?

 

[Lute]

ok bro that was a bunch of babbling. im just gonna not reply. even though i have a reply. its pointless to proceed any further.

 

[JarBreaker]

What is not true, honest, just, pure, lovely, etc. about a tree, a sprig of plant, or any other tradition? In what way do they have the "appearance of evil?" I have never looked at a pine tree as malevolent, myself.

The dream Daniel explained about the tree being hewn down ? The tree was sin, and the stump remained in the heart - go back to your old ways, feed the old man of flesh and then the stump will start to sprout again - sin taking hold of your heart again and you will not be bearing good fruit.

Pagans, (all that "cut down their groves") would go decorate trees in the forest and a big thing for them to find would be an old stump that might have had some new twigs manage to come back to life.


Otherwise, just take Jeremiah's word for it - chapter 10, I think.

So to use a tree in a pagan ritual is sinful, to use a tree to celebrate the birth of Christ is good.

Do not learn the ways of the gentiles - do not worship Me as they worship their g-ds.

 

[Lute]

the greatest gift on earth is Christ himself. if he is not leading us to do this then why? its crazy to think that he will accept something like this. and even if i got the hint that he was neither for or against it. i wouldnt even take the risk. i mean come on what are you loosing?? make this time of year fun for you an your whole family in some other way that you know for sure God loves an adores.

 

[JarBreaker]

the greatest gift on earth is Christ himself. if he is not leading us to do this then why? its crazy to think that he will accept something like this. and even if i got the hint that he was neither for or against it. i wouldnt even take the risk. i mean come on what are you loosing?? make this time of year fun for you an your whole family in some other way that you know for sure God loves an adores.

It's a slippery slope and satan makes us always focus on the things we do not have, separating from family and friends because of something He has not given them to understand is wrong in His eyes is one of the biggest things that he will fight you over.

 

[jiggyfly]

Tis Is The Season​

[font="'Palatino Linotype"]
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Does God’s Holy word give any such direction for observing this day or for doing ANY of the actions billions participate in every year?

Tis IS the season…….....but WHOSE?


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Does the scriptures tell you to celebrate the fourth of July, your birthday or wedding anniversary?

 

[TexUs]

The tree was sin

I didn't know a tree could break God's law.

This reminds me of the "guns kill" argument... Guns don't kill, people kill. Trees don't sin, people sin.

 

[Lute]

It's a slippery slope and satan makes us always focus on the things we do not have, separating from family and friends because of something He has not given them to understand is wrong in His eyes is one of the biggest things that he will fight you over.

i didnt really get what you were saying in response to my post. can you reiterate it?

I didn't know a tree could break God's law.

This reminds me of the "guns kill" argument... Guns don't kill, people kill. Trees don't sin, people sin.

thats is complete an utter nonsense. the 2 arguments are completely different. they dont even meet the same parameters. guns do kill people. its the man holding the gun that murders someone.if a man defends himself that isnt murder. because he used the gun the way it was intended. just like trees arent evil its the man that makes the entire act and situation evil. by using them in a way not required or asked. like has been stated. its not the tree that is unholy. its the use of the tree in a manner not required or asked by him. were not talking about anything else out of context. you can say well then this well then that all you want. the fact is there is no justification for it. none whatsoever. i mean you can go ahead an risk it but i sure am not gonna take the chance. and the fact that God is not leading me to have one. the exact opposite.

 

[jburic09032]

I dont believe in Christmas because the disciples didn't celebrate it. If God wanted us to celebrate Jesus' birth wouldn't it have been written in the bible somewhere.(Easter too)
I don't think we should celebrate His birth once every year, i think we should always celebrate his birth.
The Bible would say something about Christmas if we were supposed to celebrate it.

Colossians 2

Freedom From Human Rules

16 Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17 These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ. 18 Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you. Such a person also goes into great detail about what they have seen; they are puffed up with idle notions by their unspiritual mind. 19 They have lost connection with the head, from whom the whole body, supported and held together by its ligaments and sinews, grows as God causes it to grow.
20 Since you died with Christ to the elemental spiritual forces of this world, why, as though you still belonged to the world, do you submit to its rules: 21 “Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch!”? 22 These rules, which have to do with things that are all destined to perish with use, are based on merely human commands and teachings. 23 Such regulations indeed have an appearance of wisdom, with their self-imposed worship, their false humility and their harsh treatment of the body, but they lack any value in restraining sensual indulgence.

 

[TexUs]

thats is complete an utter nonsense. the 2 arguments are completely different. they dont even meet the same parameters. guns do kill people. its the man holding the gun that murders someone.if a man defends himself that isnt murder. because he used the gun the way it was intended.

Way to totally miss the point.
I'm not debating kill vs murder (I agree with you). I'm debating on the usage. You can use it for good reasons, or you can use it for bad reasons. Point being it's up to the PERSON, not the object.

its the use of the tree

Exactly.
And you can't draw the logical lines?

Use of a tree for worship of false gods = Bad.
Use of a tree for worship of Christ = Good

You yourself just said it was the use of it and yet you turn right around and say it's not the use of it... Which is it?

I dont believe in Christmas because the disciples didn't celebrate it. If God wanted us to celebrate Jesus' birth wouldn't it have been written in the bible somewhere.(Easter too)

Do you celebrate anniversaries? Birthdays? Fourth of July? New Years?

 

[Xanderoc]

Way to totally miss the point.
I'm not debating kill vs murder (I agree with you). I'm debating on the usage. You can use it for good reasons, or you can use it for bad reasons. Point being it's up to the PERSON, not the object.



Exactly.
And you can't draw the logical lines?

Use of a tree for worship of false gods = Bad.
Use of a tree for worship of Christ = Good

You yourself just said it was the use of it and yet you turn right around and say it's not the use of it... Which is it?


Do you celebrate anniversaries? Birthdays? Fourth of July? New Years?

Texas, you mean to say, you don't know that Christmas is a pagan festival.
Look it up man. History has bared it out. Winter solstice. Pagan residue absorb by Roman Christianity. Nothing whats so ever to do with Christ! The Lord never said to use a tree to worship him. That is idolatry ! That Is a sin!

 

[jburic09032]

Do you celebrate anniversaries? Birthdays? Fourth of July? New Years?

None of those are religious festivals.
They don't matter as much.

 

[Eccl.12:13]

Way to totally miss the point.
You can use it for good reasons, or you can use it for bad reasons. Point being it's up to the PERSON, not the object.

Really? Because whenever gold, silver or ANYTHING was used to worship false god's, the true and living God wanted NOTHING to do with those 'OBJECTS'!!

Num.33
[52] Then ye shall drive out all the inhabitants of the land from before you, and destroy all their pictures, and destroy all their molten images, and quite pluck down all their high places:

Josh.6
[21] And they utterly destroyed all that was in the city, both man and woman, young and old, and ox, and sheep, and ass, with the edge of the sword.
[24] And they burnt the city with fire, and all that was therein.....


God destroyed not only the people that used the objects, but even the objects themselves were to be destroyed.

So much for it NOT being the objects!



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[Rach1370]

Same old song and dance Ecc. The issue can be boiled down simply.

Everything on and above the earth was made by God and therefore gives glory to Him. Of course sinful people take these things to use in idolatry, worship of themselves or false gods. But should His people, Christians, take something God made good, and use it in celebration of Him...how can you think God would object over that?

I don't give a damn about pagans, and what they did with trees, what matters is where my heart is on any given day, on any given celebration. On Christmas, there is no point me working...everything is closed. So on that day I remember my Saviour, I remember how amazing it is that Jesus humbled Himself to be born into this world, to become subject to all the hardships of human life. The day that He was born was one of the most important days in all of human history, and I choose the remember it.

You can fuss and rant over what you think is okay or not, but me, I'm just gonna love my God.

 

[deprofundis]

I think the story of Nehushtan is important, here. If one worshiped the brass serpent, then the act was idolatry, but to recognize His power behind it was to Glorify Him and receive healing and salvation; this is shown in the parallel Christ draws between himself and the brass serpent. This addresses not only the issue of false idols, but also does relate somewhat to the other matter at hand; pagans and shamanists have both worshiped serpents or serpent gods, and no doubt made statues or other likenesses of them. A brass serpent has almost certainly been used in pagan rituals, yet to gaze upon the brass serpent that glorified God healed those who gazed upon it, and it was destroyed only later when the serpent, rather than God's power behind the brazen snake, was what was recognized and worshiped. To worship a tree is wrong, and to use a tree to worship pagan gods is wrong, but to use a tree to Glorify God is not.

 

[jburic09032]

On Christmas, there is no point me working...everything is closed. So on that day I remember my Saviour, I remember how amazing it is that Jesus humbled Himself to be born into this world, to become subject to all the hardships of human life. The day that He was born was one of the most important days in all of human history, and I choose the remember it.

You can fuss and rant over what you think is okay or not, but me, I'm just gonna love my God.

The Bible dosen't give a certain day of his birth did it?
Why not his birth be in the Spring, Summer, or Fall instead of Winter.
WE Don'T Know when his birth was, because the Bible doesn't say so.
THERES 365(366 on leap year) DAYS IN A YEAR!
He could have been born on any of those days.
WE don't know!
Matthew 1:24-2:4
24 When Joseph woke from sleep, he did as the angel of the Lord commanded him: he took his wife,25 but knew her not until she had given birth to a son. And he called his name Jesus.

Matthew 2
1 Now after Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea in the days of Herod the king, behold, wise men from the east came to Jerusalem,2 saying, Where is he who has been born king of the Jews? For we saw his star when it rose and have come to worship him.3 When Herod the king heard this, he was troubled, and all Jerusalem with him;4 and assembling all the chief priests and scribes of the people, he inquired of them where the Christ was to be born.


We should Always celebrate His birth, not just on one specific day.

 

[Lute]

The Bible dosen't give a certain day of his birth did it?
Why not his birth be in the Spring, Summer, or Fall instead of Winter.
WE Don'T Know when his birth was, because the Bible doesn't say so.
THERES 365(366 on leap year) DAYS IN A YEAR!
He could have been born on any of those days.
WE don't know!
Matthew 1:24-2:4
24 When Joseph woke from sleep, he did as the angel of the Lord commanded him: he took his wife,25 but knew her not until she had given birth to a son. And he called his name Jesus.

Matthew 2
1 Now after Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea in the days of Herod the king, behold, wise men from the east came to Jerusalem,2 saying, Where is he who has been born king of the Jews? For we saw his star when it rose and have come to worship him.3 When Herod the king heard this, he was troubled, and all Jerusalem with him;4 and assembling all the chief priests and scribes of the people, he inquired of them where the Christ was to be born.


We should Always celebrate His birth, not just on one specific day.

amen brother. we need to start setting ourselves apart from the world. when you do things differently they take notice. and if you do things differently and you have joy in doing it. they wont think that you are just a Grinch. because when i look into someones house and i see a tree all decorated the only thing it tells me is that these people like to decorate an gives gifts. it in no way shape or form makes me think of Christ. because the heathen of today have made into a non holiday. just like the heathen of the past made it that way in Europe. thats why the puritans were so against it. all it did in Europe was make people get drunk and eat too much. just like it does now. its suppose to be a jolly time of year but i see nothing but stress in a lot of people.

 

[Eccl.12:13]

I don't give a damn about pagans, and what they did with trees,

If you are going to serve God then why not observe HIS feast days..the ones with real meaning! The ones He gave us on the day He set forth;

Passover, Unleaven bread, Pentecost, Day of Atonement, Blowing of the trumpets, Feast of Tabernacles

But instead you would rather attempt to serve God on the same day as pagans, using the same items as pagans once did!

Just as 09032 said, the bible does not give the day Christ was born. Now why are we not given, as you call it, "one of the most important days in all of human history" even a clue as to when we should celebrate it! We are not even given a season. As a matter of fact, readers of the scriptures are most certain it was NOT during the winter.

So please explain again how is bringing a tree into your home honoring God? And why do you do it at the same time as the pagans?

If anything, wouldn't you want to distance yourself from the actions of pagans? That's what God tells us in His word;

"When thou art come into the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee, thou shalt not learn to do after the abominations of those nations"

"Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? And what concord hath Christ with Belial?…."

"Learn not the way of the heathen"

"Abstain from all appearance of evil."


But instead you have joined, adapted and conformed!!

If the pagans hold their worship to their god in the winter, why not honor the true and living God's birth in the summer?

If the pagans bring cut trees, bring them into the house and decorate with silver and gold, why not do the opposite; start a garden and trim with blue and yellow?

If the pagans use holly, mistle-toe, wreaths and yule-logs, why not do just the opposite?


But what has most of the world done? The samething, at the same time, with the same items as the pagans!

The ONLY difference is the name you call!

And you really think God would want to be associated with those things heathens once did to worship their god?


Please understand....I am NOT trying to get anyone to change their minds. I am posting this for those that may have never know that Jer.10, an exact description of our current day Christmas, was even in the bible.

This lesson is to let those that did not know that ALL of the items used today to celebrate Christmas was FIRST used by pagans to worship their god's and NOT the true and living God.

This lesson is for those that may have never put the two together and ask themselves, "WHY am I doing this?" Where are we directed to observe such things and by whose authority?

This lesson is for them.....not you!




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[TexUs]

The Lord never said to use a tree to worship him. That is idolatry ! That Is a sin!

Oh, is that what it says? Or does it speak against IDOLS?
[font="tahoma][size="2"][sup]1[/sup] Hear what the LORD says to you, people of Israel. [sup]2[/sup]is is what the LORD says: “Do not learn the ways of the nations
or be terrified by signs in the heavens,
though the nations are terrified by them.
[sup]3[/sup] For the practices of the peoples are worthless;
they cut a tree out of the forest,
and a craftsman shapes it with his chisel.
[sup]4[/sup] They adorn it with silver and gold;
they fasten it with hammer and nails
so it will not totter.
[sup]5[/sup] Like a scarecrow in a cucumber field,
their idols cannot speak;
they must be carried
because they cannot walk.
Do not fear them;
they can do no harm
nor can they do any good.”

[sup]6[/sup] No one is like you, LORD;
you are great,
and your name is mighty in power.
[sup]7[/sup] Who should not fear you,
King of the nations?
This is your due.
Among all the wise leaders of the nations
and in all their kingdoms,
there is no one like you.

[sup]8[/sup] They are all senseless and foolish;
they are taught by worthless wooden idols.
[sup]9[/sup] Hammered silver is brought from Tarshish
and gold from Uphaz.
What the craftsman and goldsmith have made
is then dressed in blue and purple—
all made by skilled workers.
[sup]10[/sup] But the LORD is the true God;
he is the living God, the eternal King.
When he is angry, the earth trembles;
the nations cannot endure his wrath.

[sup]11[/sup] “Tell them this: ‘These gods, who did not make the heavens and the earth, will perish from the earth and from under the heavens.’”
[/size][/font]

What are the "ways of the nations"? Idol worship, or cutting down trees?

None of those are religious festivals.
They don't matter as much.

But if you truly practiced what you preached, since these are not celebrations commanded by Christ, you shouldn't follow them. Most of what I mentioned are also rooted in pagan traditions and you still follow them. (including your own birthday).
And yet now you make an exception.
Hypocritical Theory 101.

Really? Because whenever gold, silver or ANYTHING was used to worship false god's, the true and living God wanted NOTHING to do with those 'OBJECTS'!!

Num.33
[52] Then ye shall drive out all the inhabitants of the land from before you, and destroy all their pictures, and destroy all their molten images, and quite pluck down all their high places:

Josh.6
[21] And they utterly destroyed all that was in the city, both man and woman, young and old, and ox, and sheep, and ass, with the edge of the sword.
[24] And they burnt the city with fire, and all that was therein.....


God destroyed not only the people that used the objects, but even the objects themselves were to be destroyed.

If you follow and continue your own logic you'd realize you are saying that ox, sheep, ass, bricks, mortar... Are all sin and we shouldn't have anything to do with them.
Yet I imagine you still eat meat, you still drink milk, and live in a house, don't you?

We should Always celebrate His birth, not just on one specific day.

You're distracting from the argument, I don't think anyone would disagree with this.