PS95
Well-Known Member
You have some terrible reading comprehension skills, Fred.
No point in saying anything else. No harm no foul on my end.
No point in saying anything else. No harm no foul on my end.Tithe
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Stop it, you're breaking my heart!You have some terrible reading comprehension skills, Fred.
Since you claim to have a better reading comprehension skills, quote a verse from Acts to the epistles of the Apostles, there was non-compulsion10% offering?
PS95
Well-Known Member
Better yet- YOU quote one where it is forbidden to offer 10% if you decide to give that amt cheerfully?
Is 9% ok- how about 11%? Just 10 is bad?
Get a grip.
Get a grip your 'self' and your 'ignorance', mind you, there's quotes and explanation in all my post.Better yet- YOU quote one where it is forbidden to offer 10% if you decide to give that amt cheerfully?
Is 9% ok- how about 11%? Just 10 is bad?
Get a grip.
Apparently you can't quote even one since there's none, so stop playing mind games and your time is up!
Deborah_
Well-Known Member
For many Christians, tithing smacks of legalism. Wasn’t it part of the Old Covenant Law, which no longer applies to us? And in all the many passages on money and giving in the New Testament, tithing is never even suggested, let alone commanded.
However, tithing pre-dates the Law. It is first mentioned when Abram gives to Melchizedek (who is God’s representative) a tenth of the spoils that he has just won in battle (Genesis 14:20). Two generations later, Jacob vows to give to God a tenth of everything he acquires (Genesis 28:22). So it's an ancient principle, later incorporated into the Law in order to finance worship in the Tabernacle and support the priests and Levites.
But when Paul writes to the Corinthians about giving, he carefully avoids prescribing either a set amount or a fixed proportion. “Each of you should give what you have decided in your heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.” (II Corinthians 9:7)
So tithing is not compulsory; but we shouldn't therefore dismiss it altogether. For how do we decide how much of our income to give away? At least the 10% figure gives us something to work from! It suggests that we should be giving a significant amount, not just the few coins left in our purses at the end of the week. We should probably be giving away enough for us to notice a dent in our weekly or monthly budget. For the less well off, this might be only 5% (or even less); but for the richer ones among us, it should probably be 20% (or even more).
However, tithing pre-dates the Law. It is first mentioned when Abram gives to Melchizedek (who is God’s representative) a tenth of the spoils that he has just won in battle (Genesis 14:20). Two generations later, Jacob vows to give to God a tenth of everything he acquires (Genesis 28:22). So it's an ancient principle, later incorporated into the Law in order to finance worship in the Tabernacle and support the priests and Levites.
But when Paul writes to the Corinthians about giving, he carefully avoids prescribing either a set amount or a fixed proportion. “Each of you should give what you have decided in your heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.” (II Corinthians 9:7)
So tithing is not compulsory; but we shouldn't therefore dismiss it altogether. For how do we decide how much of our income to give away? At least the 10% figure gives us something to work from! It suggests that we should be giving a significant amount, not just the few coins left in our purses at the end of the week. We should probably be giving away enough for us to notice a dent in our weekly or monthly budget. For the less well off, this might be only 5% (or even less); but for the richer ones among us, it should probably be 20% (or even more).
Readers,
Fair enough, why do we have to go down the path backwards again to decide 10% or now 5%, as though you have and serve a bargaining GOD?
Isn't the quote of Paul just quoted mentions clearly, without any 'measure', ' give' what you've decided in your heart?
And if you hold back what you've decide to give, apparently will end up like the account of Ananias and Sapphira.
It's just that the seed that fell among the thorn bushes believers caught in the necessity and pleasure of the earth, struggle from 10% to 5% to nothing monthly.
The LORD GOD of Israel because of Lord Jesus Christ is our 'provider', the more you sow the more you reap and overflowing.
It's like Cain who reaped, 'measured' as small portion as his offering unto GOD, but Abel did not but gave the best of the whole 'firstborn' lamb.
The widow who gave everything that she had, is not like she starved, and became homeless and died with nothing.
For she knew under the Law of Moses and waiting for the Messiah, the LORD GOD Isreal is her 'provider', 'healer', etc.
While the others gave out of their abundance, 'which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel', and where GOD is not pleased.
Been there, done that and know how, when me deciding to give a 'measured' portion of 10% offering monthly and gradually planing to increase.
As from the beginning stage itself, i soon fallen short, reducing down to 5%, and to nothing, and finally gave up.
Now i don't measure, but as 'doer' and 'abider' by the scripture, i give what i decided in my heart, not thinking if may fall short before the end of the month.
At times there were hold backs and bargains, but had to confess as lalwlessness, and try again as to workout my salvation in fear and trembling.
On the other hand, It's like one trying to be wise in one's sight and thinking in 'measuring' how much to give, and end up unwise, and folly and unfruitful, whom GOD laughs at.
Stick to the scripture and it's sound doctrine, likewise as 'doers' and 'abiders', and the Holy Ghost, and as servants in the spirit, not in the flesh, thinking, reasoning and bargaining.
Shalom in the name of Lord Jesus Christ
Deborah_
Well-Known Member
Who said anything about bargaining? Whatever percentage I decide to give, that's my choice. Or do you have a problem with the concept of a percentage? But Paul advises us to give in proportion to our income (I Corinthians 16:2)!
Did you say?
Do you?
The Word of GOD, Christ, today by the Holy Ghost have problem that certain churches use the term, 'tithes' and 'a tenth' compulsory that believers should offer from thier income.
Besides included also other offerings believers should offer in other matters of the church in the account of 'generous giving' and 'cheerful giving'.
For the record, a letter like 'tithe' and letters like 'a tenth' and others relatively required offering from one's gain since GOD made them prosper are also pertaining to the Law of Moses.
And the Law have been 'abolished' from the record and not applicable to the church under grace and faith, not a 'letter' or 'letters' from the Law should be reintroduce.and practiced.
The Aposrtles of the New Testament foundation have verified this clearly and also the consequences that comes with it.
Do you have a problem with that?
Are you sure, that Paul's set aside 'a proportion' from one's income which GOD made them prosper the 'truth', tangible with your 'self' claim 'a percentage'?
(Proportion giving and percentage giving are not the same manner, though they are closely related. They differ because proportions show a part compared to a whole as a fraction or decimal. while percentages show that same comparison scaled out of one hundred.)
Ironically many strange characters are responding to this tread than worshipers in spirit and truth
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Deborah_
Well-Known Member
But my church doesn't. I've never attended a church that insists on a compulsory 10%.
"Percentage" is merely another way of expressing "proportion". There's no practical difference between the two; the distinction is purely in terminology. All proportions are a percentage. Whatever amount you are giving is a percentage of your income, whether you want to call it that or not. So Paul's 'proportion' is a percentage - he just didn't specify what the percentage (or proportion) should be.
There's difference even though they're closely related and have specified in my post.
For it is written, "Man shall not live by bread alone but by the every word that proceeded out of HIS mouth.'
And all scripture is breath out by GOD and is HIS testament or HE's telling the story, and the Apostles are HIS 'instruments' used
Therefore when scripture read 'propportion', even though there's slight difference to 'percentage', yet there's difference and is unwise to 'add' to the 'word'.
Deborah_
Well-Known Member
So your only quarrel is with the terminology? A 'tenth' (fraction) would be OK, but '10%' (a percentage) isn't? Even though they're exactly the same thing?
If you're going to insist that we all use God's words and no others, perhaps we should all be learning Hebrew and Greek, since those are the languages that God originally spoke in.
Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye. Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come. - 1 Cor. 16:2
That is not the tithe.
"In this chapter Paul closes this long epistle with some particular matters of less moment; but, as all was written by divine inspiration, it is all profitable for our instruction. He begins with directing them about a charitable collection on a particular occasion, the distresses and poverty of Christians in Judea, which at this time were extraordinary, partly through the general calamities of that nation and partly through the particular sufferings to which they were exposed..." an excerpt from an enlightening article by Matthew Henry
PS95
Well-Known Member
We know it's not a tithe! It is ok though if they want to give 10 PERCENT- 2 PERCENT- 11 PERCENT Christians are free to give whatever amount they want to as long as they do not think they MUST give a certain amount.
No idea how anyone can't see this. LOL
Before my baptism in Jesus name for remission of my sins, I was told by the pastor I must agree to tithing first.
Yep, it was a precondition for salvation.
At first I was puzzled, but then I wanted to be baptized badly.
So, I later moved on from tithing to freewill giving as I figured out what was going on in Christendom.
Yep, it was a precondition for salvation.
At first I was puzzled, but then I wanted to be baptized badly.
So, I later moved on from tithing to freewill giving as I figured out what was going on in Christendom.
Follow the money. ("$ave the in$titution!" the sycophants cried.)
Thank you, Jesus.
Hi @Fred J referring to your original post -
I appreciate the distinction being made between the Old Covenant tithe and New Covenant giving. It is important that we understand tithing within its biblical context rather than simply transferring the Mosaic system directly into the church.
Under the Law of Moses, tithing was connected to Israel's covenant structure, the Levites, the temple service, and the care of the stranger, widow, and orphan. It was not simply a weekly monetary contribution to a local assembly, as many understand it today.
The New Testament pattern does not present a command that believers must give a fixed 10% to the church. Instead, the apostles emphasized willing, generous, and sacrificial giving:
"So let each one give as he purposes in his heart, not grudgingly or of necessity; for God loves a cheerful giver."
2 Corinthians 9:7
However, we should also be careful not to conclude that because the New Testament does not command a tithe, generosity is somehow reduced. The early believers gave sacrificially, cared for those in need, and supported those who labored in the gospel.
The question is therefore not whether Christians should give, because scripture clearly teaches generosity, but whether the Mosaic tithe system should be presented as a New Covenant requirement.
One point I would clarify is that scripture does not say tithing began with Cain and Abel. Cain and Abel brought offerings, but the first recorded tithe is Abraham giving a tenth to Melchizedek. Abraham's action is important, but Scripture records it as an act of faith rather than a command given to all believers.
Ultimately, the New Covenant calls believers to something deeper than a legal percentage. We are called to be faithful stewards of everything God has entrusted to us, giving according to faith, love, and the leading of the Holy Spirit.
I appreciate the distinction being made between the Old Covenant tithe and New Covenant giving. It is important that we understand tithing within its biblical context rather than simply transferring the Mosaic system directly into the church.
Under the Law of Moses, tithing was connected to Israel's covenant structure, the Levites, the temple service, and the care of the stranger, widow, and orphan. It was not simply a weekly monetary contribution to a local assembly, as many understand it today.
The New Testament pattern does not present a command that believers must give a fixed 10% to the church. Instead, the apostles emphasized willing, generous, and sacrificial giving:
"So let each one give as he purposes in his heart, not grudgingly or of necessity; for God loves a cheerful giver."
2 Corinthians 9:7
However, we should also be careful not to conclude that because the New Testament does not command a tithe, generosity is somehow reduced. The early believers gave sacrificially, cared for those in need, and supported those who labored in the gospel.
The question is therefore not whether Christians should give, because scripture clearly teaches generosity, but whether the Mosaic tithe system should be presented as a New Covenant requirement.
One point I would clarify is that scripture does not say tithing began with Cain and Abel. Cain and Abel brought offerings, but the first recorded tithe is Abraham giving a tenth to Melchizedek. Abraham's action is important, but Scripture records it as an act of faith rather than a command given to all believers.
Ultimately, the New Covenant calls believers to something deeper than a legal percentage. We are called to be faithful stewards of everything God has entrusted to us, giving according to faith, love, and the leading of the Holy Spirit.
Just a clarification, the percentage of the tithe in the Old Testament was actually averaged out at 23.3333333% per year of a person's earnings/increase.
Tithing, in my opinion is a test of our trust in God's ability to stretch what we retain to meet all of our needs.
Generosity is one of the spiritual gifts that we receive when we embrace God's 'religion'.
Trusting God is also a spiritual gift that we receive when we embrace God's 'religion' for today.
Shalom
@Jay Ross
You are correct that the Old Testament involved more than one form of tithe, and when those are calculated together, some scholars estimate Israel's giving obligation averaged higher than 10% annually.
The point I was making, however, was that these tithes belonged to Israel's covenant structure, the Levites, the temple service, and the provision for the stranger, widow, and orphan within the nation. They were connected to the land and the priesthood system established under Moses.
The New Testament does not repeat a command that believers must give a fixed percentage to a local assembly. Instead, the emphasis is on willing, generous, and sacrificial giving from the heart. A believer may choose to give 10%, more than 10%, or another amount as the Lord leads, but the motivation is faith and love rather than obligation.
I agree that generosity and trusting God are important aspects of walking with Him. The question is whether the Mosaic tithe itself has been carried over as a requirement under the New Covenant, and that is where the New Testament appears to place the emphasis differently.
You are correct that the Old Testament involved more than one form of tithe, and when those are calculated together, some scholars estimate Israel's giving obligation averaged higher than 10% annually.
The point I was making, however, was that these tithes belonged to Israel's covenant structure, the Levites, the temple service, and the provision for the stranger, widow, and orphan within the nation. They were connected to the land and the priesthood system established under Moses.
The New Testament does not repeat a command that believers must give a fixed percentage to a local assembly. Instead, the emphasis is on willing, generous, and sacrificial giving from the heart. A believer may choose to give 10%, more than 10%, or another amount as the Lord leads, but the motivation is faith and love rather than obligation.
I agree that generosity and trusting God are important aspects of walking with Him. The question is whether the Mosaic tithe itself has been carried over as a requirement under the New Covenant, and that is where the New Testament appears to place the emphasis differently.
The tithes were not connected so much with the "land" in which the Israelites lived, but rather with the "fertile soil of God", that God had given for them to inhabited in communion with Him.
Sadly, the Hebrew Root word H:0127, which has the meaning of "reddish soil", is often translated as either "land" or "earth" which distorts where and how God intended them to live.
The fixation of the Israelite's desire upon their possession of "land" which had been conveniently promised for them to possess for a period of time where the end point of that time period was beyond their ability to comprehend, can be found in Genesis 13:14-17 and 15:17-21.
I trust that this helps.
Shalom
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