Tithing

[JPPT1974]

We have to tithe 10% of what we are given. As it comes from God. Even though we can never, ever outgive Him at all. By any and all means. We also are to give from the bottom of our hearts as well. Not just act like it is a chore. It should be out of our hearts and souls.

 

[mark s]

If it is to be from your heart, your own gift, it can't be manditory.


2 Corinthians 9:7 / ESV
(7) Each one must give as he has made up his mind, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.

 

[Erudite Celt]

I loath the modern concept of tithing, especially the give more receive more mantra. The idea that someone will receive more blessings for the more they give would seem to be a most chimerical idea, and one that would be an anathema to God. It Is not supported anywhere ​in the Gospels either implicitly or obtusely. God forgive those that preach it.

Then why mention it?

True, if one boasts of their giving then they have received their reward in full!

 

[Axehead]

Many people worship money indirectly and cannot bring themselves to tithe, because they are afraid it will leave them to little money left to pay for food and shelter. They worship and trust in money more than God to provide for them, and as a result, they try to find any excuse to not tithe.

Tithing is only done by Christians who obey the Bible and who trust and worship in God alone and not money.

Tithing is still a biblical principle for new convent Christians.

God bless.

Please show me where tithing is a biblical principle for new covenant CHristians? Are you saying it is a biblical law? If it is not a law but just a "principle", what kind of principle is it? Is it a required principle? That would make it a law. Please show me your scriptures so I can see why tithing is a NT Biblical Principle.

Thanks,
Axehead

Tithing is a New Covenant teaching and is still valid, and that's easy for anyone to see if they truly loved the truth. It's only people who hate the idea of giving to God their first 10% of ALL INCOME, that try to look for ways to escape it, because they trust in MONEY more than God to provide for themselves.

As far as I can see there is no NT Payment System which is what you are advocating. The OT Tithe was a payment system. 1 Cor 9 and the rest of the NT talk about a "giving" system not payment. And the thought goes like this. "as every man purposes in his own heart, let him give to the Lord willingly".

You are just creating a law for Christians to be under and we are under no law except the law of love which is the Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus. He doesn't own 10% anyway, He owns all that we are and have and He allows us the freedom to walk with Him in relationship without imposing a tax on us. Love does not impose a tax or payment system.

1Cor 9: 1-14 is the clearest passage in the NT regarding tithing. Paul refers to those who worked in the temple were paid from the monies that went into the temple. Then he says, "in the same way those who preach the gospel should live from the Gospel." It seems that he says that the way the Levites were paid was the model for the NT era preacher. The church at Corinth was totally Gentile - 1 Cor 12:2 - and here Paul tells these guys that they should tithe in 1 Cor 9.

Hmmm, let me reread 1 Cor 9.

Nope, don't see it. I think you infering your own thoughts and biases into 1 Cor 9. You'll have to show me where God is demanding 10% tithe from His children.

Now in 2 Cor 9, Paul does say that those who sow sparingly will reap sparingly, but then goes on to make sure he is not misunderstood by some that may think he is pushing the OT Payment System/OT Law. He wants everyone to understand that he is not doing that and that every man should decide in his own heart how much he would like to give.

2Co 9:6 But this I say, He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully.
2Co 9:7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.

People were tithing in Paul's day BUT TO JESUS. Hebrews 7:8 Here mortal men receive tithes, but there he receives them, of whom it is witnessed that he lives.

THIS IS CLEAR EVIDENCE THAT TITHING WAS PRACTISED TO JESUS - in Paul's day the Jews who had not accepted Jesus tithed to the levites still - however Jesus received as tithes - back then and still now - and in 1 COr 9 Paul says that we pass them onto the ministers.

Hebrews 7:1,2,8-10

For this Melchizedek, king of Salem, priest of the Most High God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings and blessed him,2 to whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all, first being translated “king of righteousness,” and then also king of Salem, meaning “king of peace,”8 Here mortal men receive tithes, but there he receives them, of whom it is witnessed that he lives.9 Even Levi, who receives tithes, paid tithes through Abraham, so to speak,10 for he was still in the loins of his father when Melchizedek met him.

This goes to the heart of the matter. This is not so much about tithing as it is about setting people free to enjoy the reality of Jesus Christ. Wrong doctrines nullify the finished work of Christ in a Believer's life and prevent him/her from really entering into spiritual union with Him. You can't be truly "In Christ" when you are observing laws, no matter how innocent they may be.

Tithing has nothing to do with the New Covenant way of living. It is a carnal religious doctrine that keeps God's people from really knowing and experiencing what "In Christ" means. "In Christ" is our new way of living and not by rules and regulations.

The statement that tithing was “after the Law” is not true.

Part of the error comes from not considering when the Old Covenant ended and when the New Covenant began. When Jesus referred to tithing, the Law was still in effect. It didn't end until he died on the cross. Jesus was living during the Law and speaking to people who were under the Law.

Actually, Hebrews 7 has nothing to do with tithing in the New Covenant. Tithing is only mentioned as part of a comparison between the Melchizedek and the Levitical priesthood to show us how far superior a priest Jesus is.

The book of Hebrews proclaims the superiority of the New Covenant. It says we have a better hope (7:19), better covenant (7:22)(8:6), better promises (8:6), better sacrifices (9:23), better substance (10:34), better country (11:16), better resurrection (11:35), and better outcome of our faith (11:40).

It shows that Jesus has a better name (1:4) and better blood (12:24), and that we now have a better cleansing of sin, a better conscience (9:14), and a better relationship with God, entering the true holy place in the heavenly realm.

This is what Hebrews 7 is all about! Showing us by tying into all the other "better" verses, that we do indeed have a far better (superior) Priest in Jesus Christ.

The verses above, are all from Hebrews.

Hebrews chapter 7 is showing us that Jesus is a greater priest than any priest in the Old Covenant. The Holy Spirit proves to us first that Melchizedek was a greater priest than any priest in the Old Covenant.

Let's look at Abraham and the tithe that he gave. What are some characteristics of this tithe and was it habitual.

1. First of all, there is no scriptural evidence that God told him to give it.

2. God's original promise and eventual covenant with Abraham was based on faith, alone. Nothing to do with tithing.

3. No where in Scripture did God instruct Abraham to give a tenth of the spoils to Melchizedek.

4. No where in Scripture did God ever instruct Abraham to give any tithe.

5. Abraham was already incredibly rich and he was not made rich by giving a tithe to Melchizedek.

6. When Abraham gave a tithe to Melchizedek, it was the only time that he ever gave a tithe.

7. The scriptures do not mention anywhere that Abraham ever gave another tithe the rest of his life.

8. The tithe that Abraham gave cost him nothing. It was on the spoils of the battle. It was not part of his personal possessions or the increase of his flocks and herds.

9. And very important. God's fulfillment to Abraham did not include a condition of tithing. God made Abraham rich in fulfillment of his promise alone, without any kind of tithing or giving.

10. Christian's have said that Abraham's tithe to Melchizedek is God's pattern for Christians in the New Covenant. There is no where in Scripture where this is stated.

11. Tithing had absolutely nothing to do with God fulfilling his promise to Abraham to make him a great nation, bless him, make his name great and that through him all the nations of the earth would be blessed. It was never mentioned except with Melchizedek and Abraham chose to do that only out of his spoils. Read

Abraham believed what God said and acted on it. There were no works involved.

12. God made Abraham rich on the basis of faith alone. Tithing was not the reason for Abraham's prosperity.

Folks, from Genesis to Revelation, God has never been in debt to man and He never will.

Our relationship with Him is based on faith alone. We approach Him and love Him, on faith alone. And He rewards us and blesses us on Faith alone.

He causes our soul to be fat (prosperous). His grace is far beyond any natural comprehension we can attain.

When you read the Bible you realize that information about the most important things in God's economy are not held back from us. They are revealed. Anything as important as an eternal, universal law of tithing would have been clearly communicated and not left to us to fumble about and figure out. However, the opposite is true. It is not plainly laid out as a NT ordinance of God.

Tithers argue that Jesus is both king and priest and is therefore due a tithe. Jesus is certainly worthy of a tithe and much more, but his kingdom and priesthood are not based on the tithe. The tithe has no place in it. Everything about tithing is inferior to New Covenant life in Christ.

Jesus' call to us is not a 10% commitment. His call is absolute abandonment and commitment of all things to Him.

Jesus requires us to forsake all, to give all, and to use all for the accomplishment of his purposes.

Interestingly, He gives (entrusts) all things to us, and to jointly work with Him in His service and the Holy Spirit is now the leader in all matters and not the tithe, or any law or rules that come from man.

And if the Holy Spirit is the leader in all matters, where does that leave the "clergy"?

Well, that's another story.

I would encourage everyone to read all of Hebrews 7, slowly.

Axehead

 

[bytheway]

As I tithe I remember that I havn't done anything in doing so, He told me to do that. Like it or not the o.t. enfolds into the n.t. He's the same yesterday today and forever. He's not a different God in the o.t. and someone else in the n.t. His nature never changes, but the way He deals with His people does.True giving is way beyond tithe. Offerings, alms etc. Father says to pray for example even though He knows what is asked, why? Because He said so. It's an opportunity to obey. Consider the 110% the 11 tribes in the wilderness gave! He still says today try me now, see if I will not open YOU the windows of heaven and pour YOU out a blessing. Mal. 3:10.

 

[jiggyfly]

As I tithe I remember that I havn't done anything in doing so, He told me to do that. Like it or not the o.t. enfolds into the n.t. He's the same yesterday today and forever. He's not a different God in the o.t. and someone else in the n.t. His nature never changes, but the way He deals with His people does.True giving is way beyond tithe. Offerings, alms etc. Father says to pray for example even though He knows what is asked, why? Because He said so. It's an opportunity to obey. Consider the 110% the 11 tribes in the wilderness gave! He still says today try me now, see if I will not open YOU the windows of heaven and pour YOU out a blessing. Mal. 3:10.

Do you know the instructions concerning the old covenant tithe? Who was to give the tithe in Israel? What they were to tithe on? How they were to give the tithe? And finally when they were to give the tithe?

Answering these questions helps in determining if the tithe is still a mandate of God within the new covenant.

 

[bytheway]

Do you know the instructions concerning the old covenant tithe? Who was to give the tithe in Israel? What they were to tithe on? How they were to give the tithe? And finally when they were to give the tithe?

Answering these questions helps in determining if the tithe is still a mandate of God within the new covenant.

Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, and Yes, But I will not wade through the minutia that would follow. I will say this, if anyone can demonstrate that the new Heaven and new Earth has come then I will discontinue thithing. Mat.5:18. The tithe was instituted long before law. I know of no scripture that says to stop at any point in time.

 

[jiggyfly]

Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, and Yes, But I will not wade through the minutia that would follow. I will say this, if anyone can demonstrate that the new Heaven and new Earth has come then I will discontinue thithing. Mat.5:18. The tithe was instituted long before law. I know of no scripture that says to stop at any point in time.

When was the tithe instituted?
Where does it say to stop animal sacrifices?

 

[Axehead]

Logic Used to Incorporate OT Tithing, Today

The problem is this: To conclude that tithing is a part of the new covenant (New Testament), one must violate sound principles of biblical interpretation. But this has been done for so long and so routinely, that most people are not even aware that they are doing it.

If you look up the word "tithe" in Cruden's Complete Concordance to the Old and New Testaments you will find this.

"The practice of paying tithes is very ancient:for we find, Gen 14:20, that Abraham gave tithes to Melchizedek, king of Salem, at his return from...
There were three sorts of tithes (bold are my words) to be paid from the people (besides those from the Levites to the priests); (1) To the Levites, for their maintenance, Num 18:21,24; (2) For the Lord's feasts and sacrifices, to be eaten in the place which the Lord should choose to put his name there Deut. 14:22-24; (3) Besides these two, there was to be, every third year, a tithe for the poor, to be eaten in their own dwellings. Deut. 14:28,29"

In the New Testament, neither Jesus nor the Apostles have commanded anything in this affair of tithes.

Did you know that there were 3 kinds of tithes? Did you know that there is no command whatsoever in the New Testament about tithing?

Let me end this piece on tithing with this statement:

I am not against GIVING. I am against telling people that they must PAY.

There is a huge difference between the two. The NT teaches giving not paying.

To teach the Law will only result in believers being put in bondage. And the bondage of legalism will be harmful to the spiritual well being of any believer. This is true in the area of giving as well as any other area.

Tithing was an important part of the Old Testament Law. But it has no place in New Testament Grace.

Galatians 5:1 is our trumpet cry.
Gal 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

The Point of Logic - Tithing was practiced before the Law, was made a part of the Law, and, therefore, should be practiced after the Law.

If the above statement were true, then it would be true regardless of the topic you were talking about. And, by being "practiced after the Law", it is meant that it becomes part of the New Testament and is a command given to all Christians today.

CIRCUMCISION

But we do not find that to be the case. For example, circumcision was practiced before the Law, was a part of the Law, but is definitely not a part of the New Testament after the Law.

God commanded Abraham to practice circumcision hundreds of years before the Law was handed down through Moses.

BEFORE THE LAW
Gen 17:1a And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him,

Gen 17:7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.
Gen 17:8 And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.
Gen 17:9 And God said unto Abraham, Thou shalt keep my covenant therefore, thou, and thy seed after thee in their generations.
Gen 17:10 This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised.
Gen 17:11 And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you.
Gen 17:12 And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which is not of thy seed.
Gen 17:13 He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant.
Gen 17:14 And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant.

Hundreds of years later, when God was giving the Law through Moses, circumcision was made an integral part of the Law.

THE LAW
Lev 12:1 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
Lev 12:2 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, If a woman have conceived seed, and born a man child: then she shall be unclean seven days; according to the days of the separation for her infirmity shall she be unclean.
Lev 12:3 And in the eighth day the flesh of his foreskin shall be circumcised.

But when the New Covenant replaced the Old Covenant, circumcision was not brought forward into the New Covenant. There were many Jewish Christians who thought that circumcision should be made mandatory for everyone who put their faith in Jesus Christ. For them, to become a Christian was to become a Jew. And to be a Jew, one was still under Jewish Law.

One of Paul's biggest battles that he constantly fought was to distinguish between the Old Covenant and the New Covenant. Paul understood through the illumination of the Holy Spirit that it was critical to separate the former relationship between man and God through the Law (OT), from the new relationship between man and God by GRACE through FAITH in CHRIST (NT). And, since circumcision was one of the most obvious, physical,visible expressions of the OT, it was spoken to in no uncertain terms. Paul made it very clear that no requirement of the Old Law was to be brought forward into the NT.

AFTER THE LAW
Rom 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
Rom 7:5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
Rom 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

Gal 2:3 But neither Titus, who was with me, being a Greek, was compelled to be circumcised:
Gal 2:4 And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage:
Gal 2:5 To whom we gave place by subjection, no, not for an hour; that the truth of the gospel might continue with you.

Gal 3:1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
Gal 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Gal 3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
Gal 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

Gal 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
Gal 5:2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.
Gal 5:3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
Gal 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

As you can see in plain language, the Scriptures explain themselves and we should not try to make them say something that they are not saying. Here is something (circumcision) that was BEFORE the LAW and AFTER the LAW, but WAS NOT BROUGHT FORWARD AFTER THE LAW.

Because I was indoctrinated into the Roman Catholic Church as a child, I will also touch upon ALTARS. They existed before the Law, and after the Law but have no place in the New Testament.

BEFORE THE LAW
Gen 8:20 And Noah builded an altar unto the LORD; and took of every clean beast, and of every clean fowl, and offered burnt offerings on the altar.

Gen 12:8 And he removed from thence unto a mountain on the east of Bethel, and pitched his tent, having Bethel on the west, and Hai on the east: and there he builded an altar unto the LORD, and called upon the name of the LORD.

Gen 35:1 And God said unto Jacob, Arise, go up to Bethel, and dwell there: and make there an altar unto God, that appeared unto thee when thou fleddest from the face of Esau thy brother.

THE LAW
There are many references, here is one.

Lev 6:9 Command Aaron and his sons, saying, This is the law of the burnt offering: It is the burnt offering, because of the burning upon the altar all night unto the morning, and the fire of the altar shall be burning in it.

AFTER THE LAW
Heb 9:12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

Heb 10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
Heb 10:2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.
Heb 10:3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
Heb 10:4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

Heb 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
Heb 10:11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
Heb 10:12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
Heb 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

But, as we all know, the sacrifice of Jesus Christ was the FINAL sacrifice. There will never again be a need to offer a sacrifice to God. There will never again be the need to build a sacrificial altar.

My point is this: You cannot logically argue that something that was practiced before the Law, and was made a part of the Law, should be practiced after the LAW (in the NT).

Axehead

 

[bytheway]

When was the tithe instituted?
Where does it say to stop animal sacrifices?

Abraham after the slaughter of the kings gave tithes to melchizedek. Gen. 14:20. Behold the Lamb of God which takes away the sin of the world Jh.1:29. Even the hard harted religionists new what that meant. For those with ears to hear animal sacrifice was no longer necessary, especially since it was not a lasting solution.

 

[jiggyfly]

Abraham after the slaughter of the kings gave tithes to melchizedek. Gen. 14:20.

Actually the scriptures only record Abraham giving a tenth of the spoils of war to Melchizedek once and there is no other record of anyone giving a tithe till the covenant given through Moses.

Behold the Lamb of God which takes away the sin of the world Jh.1:29. Even the hard harted religionists new what that meant. For those with ears to hear animal sacrifice was no longer necessary, especially since it was not a lasting solution.

So did Israel stop the animal sacrifices when Christ was crucified?

I assume that you believe only some of the old covenant ordinances have ceased, which ones do you believe should still be practiced in the new covenant and why?

 

[bytheway]

Abraham after the slaughter of the kings gave tithes to melchizedek. Gen. 14:20. Behold the Lamb of God which takes away the sin of the world Jh.1:29. Even the hard harted religionists new what that meant. For those with ears to hear animal sacrifice was no longer necessary, especially since it was not a lasting solution.

This is what it comes down to...give 10% or lay it all at the Apostles feet, your choice.

 

[jiggyfly]

This is what it comes down to...give 10% or lay it all at the Apostles feet, your choice.

Don't you have any scriptures to support your belief?

Seems you believe something that you are unable to correctly support with scripture. Is this something your parents taught you or is it something your pastor teaches?

 

[Axehead]

Someone asked me what I thought about Hebrews 7 and Melchizedek and the fact the Abraham paid a tithe to Melchizedek?

This goes to the heart of the matter. This is not so much about tithing as it is about setting people free to enjoy the reality of Jesus Christ. Wrong doctrines nullify the finished work of Christ in a Believer's life and prevent him/her from really entering into spiritual union with Him. You can't be truly "In Christ" when you are observing laws, no matter how innocent they may be. Read on and you will understand.

Tithing has nothing to do with the New Covenant way of living. It is a carnal religious doctrine that keeps God's people from really knowing and experiencing what "In Christ" means. "In Christ" is our new way of living and not by rules and regulations.

Part of the error comes from not considering when the Old Covenant ended and when the New Covenant began. When Jesus referred to tithing, the Law was still in effect. It didn't end until he died on the cross. Jesus was living during the Law and speaking to people who were under the Law.

Actually, Hebrews 7 has nothing to do with tithing in the New Covenant. Tithing is only mentioned as part of a comparison between the Melchizedek and the Levitical priesthood to show us how far superior a priest Jesus is.

The book of Hebrews proclaims the superiority of the New Covenant. It says we have a better hope (7:19), better covenant (7:22)(8:6), better promises (8:6), better sacrifices (9:23), better substance (10:34), better country (11:16), better resurrection (11:35), and better outcome of our faith (11:40).

It shows that Jesus has a better name (1:4) and better blood (12:24), and that we now have a better cleansing of sin, a better conscience (9:14), and a better relationship with God, entering the true holy place in the heavenly realm.

This is what Hebrews 7 is all about! Showing us by tying into all the other "better" verses, that we do indeed have a far better (superior) Priest in Jesus Christ.

The verses above, are all from Hebrews.

Hebrews chapter 7 is showing us that Jesus is a greater priest than any priest in the Old Covenant. The Holy Spirit proves to us first that Melchizedek was a greater priest than any priest in the Old Covenant.

Let's look at Abraham and the tithe that he gave. What are some characteristics of this tithe and was it habitual.

1. First of all, there is no scriptural evidence that God told him to give it.

2. God's original promise and eventual covenant with Abraham was based on faith, alone. Nothing to do with tithing.

3. No where in Scripture did God instruct Abraham to give a tenth of the spoils to Melchizedek.

4. No where in Scripture did God ever instruct Abraham to give any tithe.

5. Abraham was already incredibly rich and he was not made rich by giving a tithe to Melchizedek.

6. When Abraham gave a tithe to Melchizedek, it was the only time that he ever gave a tithe.

7. The scriptures do not mention anywhere that Abraham ever gave another tithe the rest of his life.

8. The tithe that Abraham gave cost him nothing. It was on the spoils of the battle. It was not part of his personal possessions or the increase of his flocks and herds.

9. God's fulfillment to Abraham did not include a condition of tithing. God made Abraham rich in fulfillment of his promise alone, without any kind of tithing or giving.

10. Christian's have said that Abraham's tithe to Melchizedek is God's pattern for Christians in the New Covenant. There is no where in Scripture where this is stated.

11. Tithing had absolutely nothing to do with God fulfilling his promise to Abraham to make him a great nation, bless him, make his name great and that through him all the nations of the earth would be blessed. It was never mentioned except with Melchizedek and Abraham chose to do that only out of his spoils. Read

Abraham believed what God said and acted on it. There were no works involved.

12. God made Abraham rich on the basis of faith alone. Tithing was not the reason for Abraham's prosperity.

Folks, from Genesis to Revelation, God has never been in debt to man and He never will. Our relationship with Him is based on faith alone. We approach Him and love Him, on faith alone. And He rewards us and blesses us on Faith alone. He causes our soul to be fat (prosperous). His grace is far beyond any natural comprehension we can attain.

When you read the Bible you realize that information about the most important things in God's economy are not held back from us. They are revealed. Anything as important as an eternal, universal law of tithing would have been clearly communicated and not left to us to fumble about and figure out. However, the opposite is true. It is not plainly laid out as a NT ordinance of God.

Tithers argue that Jesus is both king and priest and is therefore due a tithe. Jesus is certainly worthy of a tithe and much more, but his kingdom and priesthood are not based on the tithe. The tithe has no place in it. Everything about tithing is inferior to New Covenant life in Christ.

Jesus' call to us is not a 10% commitment. His call is absolute abandonment and commitment of all things to Him.

Jesus requires us to forsake all, to give all, and to use all for the accomplishment of his purposes.

Interestingly, He gives (entrusts) all things to us, and to jointly work with Him in His service and the Holy Spirit is now the leader in all matters and not the tithe, or any law or rules that come from man.

And if the Holy Spirit is the leader in all matters, where does that leave the "clergy"?

Well, that is another subject for another day.

Axehead

 

[Stan]

The idea that tithing extra money, leads to being blessed with more money, is part of the prosperity "gospel", which just makes satanic pastors rich.

I think Jesus' words should be clear enough here, BUT, not a motivation to give. The 'prosperity' gospel is a whole other animal.
Luke 6:38
Give, and it will be given to you. A good measure, pressed down, shaken together and running over, will be poured into your lap. For with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.”

Someone asked me what I thought about Hebrews 7 and Melchizedek and the fact the Abraham paid a tithe to Melchizedek?
This goes to the heart of the matter. This is not so much about tithing as it is about setting people free to enjoy the reality of Jesus Christ. Wrong doctrines nullify the finished work of Christ in a Believer's life and prevent him/her from really entering into spiritual union with Him. You can't be truly "In Christ" when you are observing laws, no matter how innocent they may be. Read on and you will understand.
Tithing has nothing to do with the New Covenant way of living. It is a carnal religious doctrine that keeps God's people from really knowing and experiencing what "In Christ" means. "In Christ" is our new way of living and not by rules and regulations.
Axehead

The OC/NC is for Israel. God's principle of tithe is one that existed before the Mosaic Laws were written. This principle is still in effect today. Jesus didn't come to abolish, but to fulfill those laws of God. NOT the written ones, but the oral ones started BY God Himself. Those principles are still relevant and effectual today. Tithing is one of those principles. Remember that Jesus is Melchizedek.

 

[jiggyfly]

I think Jesus' words should be clear enough here, BUT, not a motivation to give. The 'prosperity' gospel is a whole other animal.
Luke 6:38
Give, and it will be given to you. A good measure, pressed down, shaken together and running over, will be poured into your lap. For with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.”



The OC/NC is for Israel. God's principle of tithe is one that existed before the Mosaic Laws were written. This principle is still in effect today. Jesus didn't come to abolish, but to fulfill those laws of God. NOT the written ones, but the oral ones started BY God Himself. Those principles are still relevant and effectual today. Tithing is one of those principles. Remember that Jesus is Melchizedek.

So then how does one tithe correctly today? Can you paint a picture showing where, when and who you give your tithe to?

 

[Stan]

So then how does one tithe correctly today? Can you paint a picture showing where, when and who you give your tithe to?

Correctly is doing what God lays on your heart to do. 10% is our starting point, so for most people, that would be 10% of their gross paycheck. It's something God has to make real to you, just as He does to others, and like He did to Abraham.

 

[Axehead]

Stan,

Did you read post #49?

How did you arrive at 10%? For such an important doctrine where is the NT teaching by Jesus and the Apostles on this. The Apostles never told anyone the first 10% of their paycheck was a starting point. In fact, let's look at what Peter thought of Ananias and Sapphira's selling of their land.

Two believers, husband and wife, sold a parcel of land and gave a portion of the proceeds to the church. But they lied about how much of the proceeds they were giving. When confronted with their lies, on separate occasions, each of them fell to the ground dead.

People have used the story of Ananias and Sapphira to point out many things, but we are going to talk about what Peter said to this couple and what he DID NOT SAY.

Before we start let's take a moment and imagine what would be said to a husband and wife in most churches today if they sold some property and wanted to give some of the proceeds to their church. I have heard personally and would suggest that based on today's "tithing laws" in the church that most pastors would say something like this.

"Andy and Sue, the first thing that the Lord wants you to do with the money that you have received from the sale of your property is to pay your tithe. As you know God requires that you pay 10 percent of ALL your income as your tithe. Then after you have paid your tithe, you may want to give an OFFERING above that amount. Anything above 10 percent is a "freewill offering" to the Lord. This includes ALL income that comes your way"

You can actually buy books in Bible stores that teach this as part of the concept of Tithing.

Let's see what Peter said to them about the money they received from the sale of their property. For the purposes of this illustration, we are not concerned about the fact that Ananias and Sapphira lied, but WHAT PETER SAID TO THEM.

Act 5:1 But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession,
Act 5:2 And kept back part of the price, his wife also being privy to it, and brought a certain part, and laid it at the apostles' feet.
Act 5:3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?
Act 5:4 Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.


First, it is important to note that Peter did not mention tithing at all nor did he remind Ananias and Sapphira what the "Lord's share" was. In fact, he said that after the land was sold the money was still their own and in their control, just as it was before they sold it. That is quite different than telling them that they were required by the Lord to pay 10 percent but the 90 percent that remained was in their control. Now that their asset had been converted to cash, they were required to pay 10%.

If Peter had the concept of tithing, which most pastors have today (which is nothing similar to the Old Testament concept of Tithes and Offerings), Peter would have said something like this:

"Ananias, why have you lied about how much of the proceeds you are giving? After all, God only requires you to give ten percent. Anything above ten percent is a "freewill offering" to the Lord."

But again, any reference to tithing is obviously missing. And once again, we see that the NT is silent about tithing. This would have been a perfect spot to teach that Christians are under obligation to pay the tithe. But it isn't here. In fact, it isn't anywhere!

Don't you think that the Law of Tithing in the New Covenant would be mentioned at least one time, one little time in the New Testament??? The fact is, that TITHING IS NEVER TAUGHT IN THE NEW TESTAMENT.

We are not under a Payment System. The love of God has been shed abroad in our hearts and we give because He has given so much to us. We are led by the Holy Spirit, not by doctrines of men or fleshly laws required to meet a budget.

Gal 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

Axehead

 

[Stan]

Stan,

Did you read post #49?

How did you arrive at 10%? For such an important doctrine where is the NT teaching by Jesus and the Apostles on this. The Apostles never told anyone the first 10% of their paycheck was a starting point. In fact, let's look at what Peter thought of Ananias and Sapphira's selling of their land.


Two believers, husband and wife, sold a parcel of land and gave a portion of the proceeds to the church. But they lied about how much of the proceeds they were giving. When confronted with their lies, on separate occasions, each of them fell to the ground dead.

People have used the story of Ananias and Sapphira to point out many things, but we are going to talk about what Peter said to this couple and what he DID NOT SAY.

Before we start let's take a moment and imagine what would be said to a husband and wife in most churches today if they sold some property and wanted to give some of the proceeds to their church. I have heard personally and would suggest that based on today's "tithing laws" in the church that most pastors would say something like this.

"Andy and Sue, the first thing that the Lord wants you to do with the money that you have received from the sale of your property is to pay your tithe. As you know God requires that you pay 10 percent of ALL your income as your tithe. Then after you have paid your tithe, you may want to give an OFFERING above that amount. Anything above 10 percent is a "freewill offering" to the Lord. This includes ALL income that comes your way"

You can actually buy books in Bible stores that teach this as part of the concept of Tithing.

Let's see what Peter said to them about the money they received from the sale of their property. For the purposes of this illustration, we are not concerned about the fact that Ananias and Sapphira lied, but WHAT PETER SAID TO THEM.

Act 5:1 But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession,
Act 5:2 And kept back part of the price, his wife also being privy to it, and brought a certain part, and laid it at the apostles' feet.
Act 5:3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?
Act 5:4 Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.

First, it is important to note that Peter did not mention tithing at all nor did he remind Ananias and Sapphira what the "Lord's share" was. In fact, he said that after the land was sold the money was still their own and in their control, just as it was before they sold it. That is quite different than telling them that they were required by the Lord to pay 10 percent but the 90 percent that remained was in their control. Now that their asset had been converted to cash, they were required to pay 10%.

If Peter had the concept of tithing, which most pastors have today (which is nothing similar to the Old Testament concept of Tithes and Offerings), Peter would have said something like this:

"Ananias, why have you lied about how much of the proceeds you are giving? After all, God only requires you to give ten percent. Anything above ten percent is a "freewill offering" to the Lord."

But again, any reference to tithing is obviously missing. And once again, we see that the NT is silent about tithing. This would have been a perfect spot to teach that Christians are under obligation to pay the tithe. But it isn't here. In fact, it isn't anywhere!
Don't you think that the Law of Tithing in the New Covenant would be mentioned at least one time, one little time in the New Testament??? The fact is, that TITHING IS NEVER TAUGHT IN THE NEW TESTAMENT.

We are not under a Payment System. The love of God has been shed abroad in our hearts and we give because He has given so much to us. We are led by the Holy Spirit, not by doctrines of men or fleshly laws required to meet a budget.

Gal 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

Axehead

No offence Axehead but I tend not to read long onerous posts.

It's pretty simple actually. Matthew 23:23;



“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill and cumin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practised the latter, without neglecting the former.

As usual, Jesus cut to the heart of the matter. Tithing was just as important in His eyes as Justice, Mercy and Faithfulness.

Oh BTW, Tithe means tenth, a tenth is 10%....see, real easy.

In the case of Ananias and Sapphira, the issue was lying to the Holy Spirit and the Church, NOT the amount they gave.
The story starts in Acts 4:32-36 and continues in Acts 5:1-10. What Ananias and Sapphira did was to make it appear like they gave ALL the money they received from the sale of their land to the Church. In other words, they were lying and being hypocrites. The amount they gave was NOT the issue. We read Peter's response to this deceit in Acts 5:1-4;
Now a man named Ananias, together with his wife Sapphira, also sold a piece of property. With his wife’s full knowledge he kept back part of the money for himself, but brought the rest and put it at the apostles’ feet. Then Peter said, “Ananias, how is it that Satan has so filled your heart that you have lied to the Holy Spirit and have kept for yourself some of the money you received for the land? Didn’t it belong to you before it was sold? And after it was sold, wasn’t the money at your disposal? What made you think of doing such a thing? You have not lied just to human beings but to God.”

 

[Axehead]

No offence Axehead but I tend not to read long onerous posts.

It's pretty simple actually. Matthew 23:23;

“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill and cumin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practised the latter, without neglecting the former.​

As usual, Jesus cut to the heart of the matter. Tithing was just as important in His eyes as Justice, Mercy and Faithfulness.

Oh BTW, Tithe means tenth, a tenth is 10%....see, real easy.

In the case of Ananias and Sapphira, the issue was lying to the Holy Spirit and the Church, NOT the amount they gave.
The story starts in Acts 4:32-36 and continues in Acts 5:1-10. What Ananias and Sapphira did was to make it appear like they gave ALL the money they received from the sale of their land to the Church. In other words, they were lying and being hypocrites. The amount they gave was NOT the issue. We read Peter's response to this deceit in Acts 5:1-4;
Now a man named Ananias, together with his wife Sapphira, also sold a piece of property. [sup] [/sup]With his wife’s full knowledge he kept back part of the money for himself, but brought the rest and put it at the apostles’ feet. Then Peter said, “Ananias, how is it that Satan has so filled your heart that you have lied to the Holy Spirit and have kept for yourself some of the money you received for the land? [sup] [/sup]Didn’t it belong to you before it was sold? And after it was sold, wasn’t the money at your disposal? What made you think of doing such a thing? You have not lied just to human beings but to God.”

Ok, I'll try to keep it a little bit shorter for you, Stan. But, you might have to get used to long posts because a lot of people write long ones, here.

In case you did not realize it, Jesus was still living under the OT covenant. That is why He fulfilled the Law. The New Covenant was ratified and sealed with His blood, so of course he will not speak evil of the tithe in this ONE verse, or the Sabbath, or circumcision, etc, etc.


2Co 9:6 But this I say, He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully.
2Co 9:7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.

The New Testament Believer operates by grace and walks in the Spirit, Stan. God does not own 10% He owns 100% and we walk with Him seeking to bring our will into harmony with His will. As such, the New Testament Christian is freed from a "temple tax" or payment system and as he purposes in his heart (that means, as he decides) he/she will give.

Old Testament - Payment System - Law
New Testament - Giving System - Love


Did you know that there were 3 kinds of tithes? Did you know that there is no command whatsoever in the New Testament about tithing?

There were three sorts of tithes (bold are my words) to be paid from the people (besides those from the Levites to the priests); (1) To the Levites, for their maintenance, Num 18:21,24; (2) For the Lord's feasts and sacrifices, to be eaten in the place which the Lord should choose to put his name there Deut. 14:22-24; (3) Besides these two, there was to be, every third year, a tithe for the poor, to be eaten in their own dwellings. Deut. 14:28,29.

Do these things exist to, today? Do we have "Levites" maintaining the Temple sacrifice, or the Lord's feasts and sacrifices or do we only give to the poor every third year?

In the New Testament, neither Jesus nor the Apostles have commanded anything in this affair of tithes.

I am not against GIVING. I am against telling people that they must PAY.

There is a huge difference between the two. The NT teaches giving not paying.

To teach the Law will only result in believers being put in bondage. And the bondage of legalism will be harmful to the spiritual well being of any believer. This is true in the area of giving as well as any other area.

Tithing was an important part of the Old Testament Law. But it has no place in New Testament Grace.

Your argument is weak and does not line up with Scriptures. I thought you were all about context. You cannot build a doctrine on Jesus mentioning tithing. If you believe this, I am curious what other laws you think the New Testament Christian is still supposed to observe?

Religion propagates and perpetuates OT laws that are most advantageous to it and binds heavy burdens on people. I am glad that the Lord does no such thing.

Axehead