To be or not to be Catholic

[Eternally Grateful]

I have discernment. I am sorry it isn't up to snuff for you though.

Well, you Did not understand what I was asking. So……..

 

[Naomanos]

Well, you Did not understand what I was asking. So……..

Maybe it was in how you asked the question.

I say we move on. This conversation is of no real benefit to either one of us.

 

[Earburner]

WHAT does this say ? 2 Corinthians 5:10 10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

But, as God already knows, there are many that ignore, neglect and even refuse to come to the judgment seat of Christ, and do die in their sins.

BTW, where is the judgment seat of Christ?
It's right here, and it's right now, in John 3:18.
[18] He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
The first judgment was Death through Adam.
The second judgment is Eternal Life through faith in Christ.
Have you appeared before Jesus, in repentance towards God the Father?

So then, what has been concluded for you?
Condemned, or not condemned?
Do you think that your judgment is still future?
It could be, if you have not taken part in the first resurrection, who IS Christ Himself.

Be sure to "make your calling and election sure", by following through with John 14:23, Rev. 3:20.
If not, then the results will be....Rom. 8:9.

 

[Earburner]

I'm not sure how. The books are speaking, but when I wake up with a song in my head praising Jesus and the words tell me there's a lion in me and to shout, what do you suggest I do?

I'm not sure if I mentioned this or not, but a devout Catholic sister of mine, read my second book that exposed the Catholic fraud and commented, "I can't dispute anything you've written....but I'll always be a Catholic." We remain close and I don't discuss faith unless she brings it up. We pray together and worship Jesus. I'm not here to get anyone to change their church because I don't know your church. Focus on Jesus, which is what it sounds like you do, and you are saved. Focus on church tradition, and it's a rocky road.

Amen!
1 Cor. 2:5
[5] That your faith should NOT stand in the wisdom of men [church-ianity], but in the power of God.

 

[Marymog]

Hello Mary,

James 2:20-22 - But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect?

Notice James uses Abraham as an example of works. It was God that told Abraham to sacrifice his son. So James refers to works that God tells you to do. Not you. Jesus has a plan for you already, pray and He will guide you. Don't say "I" will do something because "I" is pride.

Hi Rockerduck,

It appears that @Patrick1966, in post #33, listed some of the works that God tells us to do!!

Mary

 

[DJT_47]

I was brought up in a Catholic family but when I became older and searched for God I quickly realized that Catholicism was errant. Below are a few things to consider when comparing Catholicism to scripture.

Facts of the bible:

All Christian's are saints (1st Corinthians 1:2, Colossians 1:2, Eph 1:1, etc, as referenced elsewhere as well)

No Pope can be found in the bible, nor cardinals or other similar related unscriptural church office titles or positions

Christ is the head of the church not the pope (Eph 5:23. Col1:18)

No man on earth is to be called father in a religious sense, which reverence is reserved for the Father in heaven (Mat 23:9)

There is no lay nor hierarchy other than elders (presbytery, bishops, pastors, all meaning the same) deacons, teachers, preachers, ministers

All Christian's are priests (1st Peter 2:9)

Women have no role or official authority in the church (1Timothy 2:12, 1Corinthians 14:34-35)

There is no such thing as 1st holy communion (after-the-fact confirmation of an infant "baptism" based on the person's subsequent confession of belief)

Baptism (which is a total immersion in water), is administered to only believing adults or persons of accountable age immediately upon their belief and confession in Jesus as the Son of God, for the remission of sins (Acts 2:38, and read all the conversions in the book of Acts.)

There are no accounts recorded of babies, infants, children being baptized or sprinkled, nor any believing adults being sprinkled as a form of, or substitution for baptism. Sprinkle and baptize are 2 distinctly different words in the Greek language, with baptism being transliterated not translated, meaning dipping, immersion, plunging and not pouring, sprinkling or anything other than complete submersion in water)

There is no worship of Mary or any other person other than Jesus Christ, nor instances of acceptable prayer to anyone other than Jesus as an intermediary between man and God (1st Tim 2:5)

There are no symbols to be held in any regard such as the cross, vessels, relics, statues, making the sign of the cross, rosaries, etc.

There are no religious holidays found in the bible or days to be revered other than the first day of the week (Sunday) when the disciples came together to break bread and have communion with the Lord, Acts 20:7)

There is no higher earthly authority over congregations of believers other than that which is to be established within the individual, local congregations, i.e., elders and related workers such as deacons, ministers/preachers

There is no condemnation for or abstaining from eating meats (ref. Colossians 2:16, 1Timothy 4:3)

There are no restrictions for marriage of priests (also we are all priests according to God's word as noted above), and ref. qualifications for church offices of bishops and deacons in 1Timothy 3:2 and 3:12, Titus1:6, "husband of one wife")

Marriage is between a man and a woman, and homosexuality is an abomination in the eyes of God

 

[Webers_Home]

.
FAQ: I'm considering joining the Catholic Church. Would it be a mistake?

REPLY: Catholicism is a beautiful religion, but it's not easy.

Once someone is fully committed by completing First Holy Communion and
Confirmation and undergone Christian baptism; they will be expected to
comply with everything Rome teaches and stands for, e.g. the
Commandments, the Canon Law, the dogma, the rituals, the Traditions, the
Councils, the Bulls, the Encyclicals, the rites, the holy days of obligation, and
the entire Catechism; plus everything that Jesus and the apostles taught in
the New Testament, i.e. all four gospels and all twenty-one epistles, plus
Acts and Revelation.

That's a lot to remember, let alone put into practice.

And then there's the matter of mortal sin. When Catholics leave this life with
just one mortal sin on the books awaiting absolution, just one, they go
straight to Hell. It's a direct flight; no stopover in a Purgatory. Even if a
Catholic managed to be a top performer in faith and practice for fifty years,
none of that will be taken into consideration. They will leave this life as if
they'd been a pagan the whole time. Mortal sins are that lethal.

The paragraph below from CCC 1782 of the catechism of the Catholic
Church; acknowledges everyone's rights and freedoms in regard to selecting
a religion of their own personal choice.

"Man has the right to act in conscience, and in freedom, so as personally to
make moral decisions. He must not be forced to act contrary to his
conscience. Nor must he be prevented from acting according to his
conscience, especially in religious matters."

However, be aware that once someone joins the Catholic Church, they will
have to relinquish those rights and be no longer permitted to either
interpret, or apply, the Holy Bible's teachings sans hierarchy oversight per
CCC 85 which says:

"The task of giving an authentic interpretation of the Word of God, whether
in its written form or in the form of Tradition, has been entrusted to the
living teaching office of the Church alone. Its authority in this matter is
exercised in the name of Jesus Christ." This means that the task of
interpretation has been entrusted to the bishops in communion with the
successor of Peter, the Bishop of Rome."

Bottom line is: Catholicism isn't a democratic structure-- it's more like the
Big Brother society depicted in George Orwell's novel "Nineteen Eighty
Four". I'm not saying that's necessarily disagreeable as some folks prefer
being told what to believe rather than figuring things out for themselves;
and they feel secure having a central authority to blame if perchance
Catholicism proves misleading-- I'm only saying that it's a level of
governance that some folks might find a bit too controlling.
_

 

[DJT_47]

.
FAQ: I'm considering joining the Catholic Church. Would it be a mistake?

REPLY: Catholicism is a beautiful religion, but it's not easy.

Once someone is fully committed by completing First Holy Communion and
Confirmation and undergone Christian baptism; they will be expected to
comply with everything Rome teaches and stands for, e.g. the
Commandments, the Canon Law, the dogma, the rituals, the Traditions, the
Councils, the Bulls, the Encyclicals, the rites, the holy days of obligation, and
the entire Catechism; plus everything that Jesus and the apostles taught in
the New Testament, i.e. all four gospels and all twenty-one epistles, plus
Acts and Revelation.

That's a lot to remember, let alone put into practice.

And then there's the matter of mortal sin. When Catholics leave this life with
just one mortal sin on the books awaiting absolution, just one, they go
straight to Hell. It's a direct flight; no stopover in a Purgatory. Even if a
Catholic managed to be a top performer in faith and practice for fifty years,
none of that will be taken into consideration. They will leave this life as if
they'd been a pagan the whole time. Mortal sins are that lethal.

The paragraph below from CCC 1782 of the catechism of the Catholic
Church; acknowledges everyone's rights and freedoms in regard to selecting
a religion of their own personal choice.

"Man has the right to act in conscience, and in freedom, so as personally to
make moral decisions. He must not be forced to act contrary to his
conscience. Nor must he be prevented from acting according to his
conscience, especially in religious matters."

However, be aware that once someone joins the Catholic Church, they will
have to relinquish those rights and be no longer permitted to either
interpret, or apply, the Holy Bible's teachings sans hierarchy oversight per
CCC 85 which says:

"The task of giving an authentic interpretation of the Word of God, whether
in its written form or in the form of Tradition, has been entrusted to the
living teaching office of the Church alone. Its authority in this matter is
exercised in the name of Jesus Christ." This means that the task of
interpretation has been entrusted to the bishops in communion with the
successor of Peter, the Bishop of Rome."

Bottom line is: Catholicism isn't a democratic structure-- it's more like the
Big Brother society depicted in George Orwell's novel "Nineteen Eighty
Four". I'm not saying that's necessarily disagreeable as some folks prefer
being told what to believe rather than figuring things out for themselves;
and they feel secure having a central authority to blame if perchance
Catholicism proves misleading-- I'm only saying that it's a level of
governance that some folks might find a bit too controlling.
_

See above post #46

 

[Webers_Home]

.
● John 3:14-17 . . As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so
must the Son of Man be lifted up; that whoever believes may in him have
eternal life. For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten son,
that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

The incident to which Christ referred is located at Num 21:5-9.

Long story short: Moses' people became weary of eating manna all the time
at every meal. But instead of courteously, and diplomatically, petitioning
their divine benefactor for a different diet, they became indignant and
confrontational; angrily demanding better accommodations.

In response to their insolence, and their ingratitude for His providence; God
sent a swarm of deadly poisonous vipers among them; which began striking
people; and every strike was 100% fatal, no exceptions.

After a number of people died, the rest came to their senses and begged
Moses to intercede. In reply; The Lord instructed Moses to fashion a replica
of the vipers and hoist it up on a pole in plain view so that everyone dying
from venom could look to it for relief.

The key issue here is that the replica was the only God-given remedy for the
people's bites-- not sacrifices and offerings, not tithing, not church
attendance, not scapulars, not confession, not holy days of obligation, not
the Sabbath, not rosaries, not weeping, not the golden rule, not charity, not
Bible study and/or Sunday school, not self denial, not vows of poverty, not
the Ten Commandments, nor even one's ideology of choice, i.e. it wouldn't
have mattered whether somebody was Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, Catholic,
Protestant, Baha'i, Atheist, Agnostic, or whatever. No; the replica was it;
nothing else would suffice to save their lives.

As an allegory, the replica tells us that Christ's crucifixion for the sins of the
world is the only God-given rescue from the wrath of God; and when people
accept it, then according to John 3:14-17 and John 5:24, they qualify for a
transfer from death into life. Those who reject his crucifixion as the only
God-given rescue from the sum of all fears, are already on the docket to face it.

● John 3:18 . .Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does
not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the
name of God's one and only Son.

If you can: find a quiet place, anywhere will do. Cover you face with your
hands for a sense of privacy and tell God you have never yet measured up
to His standards and you're pretty sure you never will. Tell Him you would
like to take advantage of His son's death; and thank Him for His time.
_

 

[Illuminator]

Bottom line is: Catholicism isn't a democratic structure-- it's more like the
Big Brother society depicted in George Orwell's novel "Nineteen Eighty
Four". I'm not saying that's necessarily disagreeable as some folks prefer
being told what to believe rather than figuring things out for themselves;
and they feel secure having a central authority to blame if perchance
Catholicism proves misleading-- I'm only saying that it's a level of
governance that some folks might find a bit too controlling.
_

...Nor do Catholics have to interpret every verse of the Bible according to some dogmatic proclamation of the Church. This is another ridiculous (and highly annoying) myth that we hear all the time. Indeed, the orthodox, faithful Catholic must interpret doctrines he derives from Scripture in accordance with the Church and tradition, but so what?

Every Protestant does the same thing within their own denominational tradition. No five-point Calvinist can find a verse in the Bible which proves apostasy or falling away, or one that teaches God’s desire for universal, rather than limited atonement (and there are many such passages). He can’t deny total depravity in any text, or irresistible grace. We all have orthodox and dogmatic boundaries that we abide by. The Catholic exegete is bound by very little, and has virtually as much freedom of inquiry as the Protestant exegete. The online (1910) Catholic Encyclopedia article on “Biblical Exegesis” states:

(a) Defined Texts
The Catholic commentator is bound to adhere to the interpretation of texts which the Church has defined either expressly or implicitly. The number of these texts is small, so that the commentator can easily avoid any transgression of this principle.

Catholics are allowed to translate from the Greek, according to the latest textual and archaeological knowledge, to use different translations, and to even cooperate in ecumenical translation projects, such as the RSV and NEB. We can do all the stuff that Protestant biblical exegetes do. And I am allowed to freely interpret almost any text on its own, provided I don’t go against a dogma of the Church (I couldn’t, e.g., say that John 1:1 does not teach the deity and Godhood of Jesus).

Scripture Passages Definitively Interpreted by the Church

Many people think the Church has an official “party line” about every sentence in the Bible. In fact, only a handful of passages have been definitively interpreted. The Church does interpret many passages in Scripture to guide her teaching. Other passages are used as the starting point and support of doctrine or moral teaching, but only these few have been “defined” in the strict sense of the word. Even in these few cases the Church is only defending traditional doctrine and morals.

It is important to realize that the parameters set by the definitions are all negative, that is, they point out what cannot be denied about the meaning of a passage but do not limit how much more the passage can be interpreted to say. In other words, the Church condemns denials of a specific interpretation of the text, without condemning meanings over and above but not contradictory to it.

All of the following passages were definitively interpreted by the Church at the Council of Trent, for each has to do with justification or the sacraments, issues that divided Catholics and Protestants.

1. John 3:5 “Unless a man is born of water and Spirit, he cannot enter the Kingdom of God.”

The Church condemned the denial that the words of Jesus mean that real (natural) water must be used for a valid baptism. At the time, the Anabaptists contended that water baptism was unnecessary because the mention of water was merely a metaphor. Other symbolic meanings in addition to the literal sense of real water can be found in the text, perhaps, but none are acceptable that deny the need for real water at baptism.

2. Luke 22:19 and
3. I Corinthians 11:24— “Taking the bread, he gave thanks, broke it and gave it to them, saying ‘This is my body given for you: do this in remembrance of me.”

The Church condemned the interpretation of these passages that denied that Jesus, in commanding his apostles to “Do this in memory of me” after instituting the Eucharist, conferred priestly ordination on them and their successors enabling them to offer His body and blood. More could be understood by the command to do this in remembrance, but that much could not be denied or contradicted by other interpretations.

4. John 20:22-23— “Receive the Holy Spirit. Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven; whose sins you do not forgive, they are not forgiven,” and
5. Matthew 18:18— “Whatever things you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”

The Church condemned the denial that in these two passages Jesus conferred a power exclusively on the apostles authorizing them and their successors in the priestly office to forgive sins in God’s name, and condemned the proposal that everyone could forgive sins in this sense.

6. Romans 5:12— “Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned…”

The Church condemned the denial of original sin to which all mankind is subject and which baptism remits, citing this passage to be understood in that sense.

7. James 6:14— “Is anyone of you sick? He should call the elders of the church to pray over him and anoint him with oil in the name of the Lord.”

Definitively interpreting these passages, the Church condemned the denial that the sacrament of the anointing of the sick was instituted by Christ and promulgated by the apostles against those who deemed it a human invention of the later Church.

In addition, the decree of Vatican I about Christ establishing Peter as head of the Church — which cites Mt 16:16 and John 1:42 — is a defined doctrine, even though the phrasing about the use and interpretation of the scripture cited is more implicit than explicit, by comparison with the above Scripture passages.
source

 

[magicmarkers]

The word “purgatory” is not found in the Bible. This is not a problem, as the word “Trinity” is not found in the Bible either, yet it is a unanimously observed doctrine among Christians. The concept of Purgatory is quite biblical. As a basic principle, we know that “nothing unclean can enter heaven.” (Rev. 21:27) St. Paul describes a particular man who built his foundation on Jesus Christ: The foundation materials of wood, hay, and straw (his works on earth) are burned away. St. Paul says this man, who had already died, will be saved, but only as through fire (1 Cor. 3:11-15). This implies something happening after death, and before heaven. He was purged (purgatory) of his earthly things. It’s fitting to get cleaned up before entering into heaven.

 

[Rockerduck]

The word “purgatory” is not found in the Bible. This is not a problem, as the word “Trinity” is not found in the Bible either, yet it is a unanimously observed doctrine among Christians. The concept of Purgatory is quite biblical. As a basic principle, we know that “nothing unclean can enter heaven.” (Rev. 21:27) St. Paul describes a particular man who built his foundation on Jesus Christ: The foundation materials of wood, hay, and straw (his works on earth) are burned away. St. Paul says this man, who had already died, will be saved, but only as through fire (1 Cor. 3:11-15). This implies something happening after death, and before heaven. He was purged (purgatory) of his earthly things. It’s fitting to get cleaned up before entering into heaven.

If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

Paul is saying that a Born again Christion, that has no rewards, will still get into Heaven, like jumping out a window from a house fire just in time..

 

[magicmarkers]

If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

Paul is saying that a Born again Christion, that has no rewards, will still get into Heaven, like jumping out a window from a house fire just in time..

So where was this man after his death and before he was saved? (“he will be saved…”)

 

[Rockerduck]

So where was this man after his death and before he was saved? (“he will be saved…”)

You have to be born from above through Jesus Christ in this life before death, so when he passed away and was judged, he made it into heaven, like a fire was behind him.

 

[magicmarkers]

You have to be born from above through Jesus Christ in this life before death, so when he passed away and was judged, he made it into heaven, like a fire was behind him.

You must be perfectly clean to enter heaven (Rev. 21:27). 1 Corinthians 3:15 accounts for this cleansing. As we will need to pay for each of our sins:
“I tell you, you will never get out till you have paid the very last copper” (Luke 12:59). The Jews made “atonement for the dead that they might be freed from this sin” (2 Macc. 12:43–45). Finally, Hebrews 12:14 states that we must strive “for the holiness without which no one will see the Lord.”

 

[Rockerduck]

You must be perfectly clean to enter heaven (Rev. 21:27). 1 Corinthians 3:15 accounts for this cleansing. As we will need to pay for each of our sins:
“I tell you, you will never get out till you have paid the very last copper” (Luke 12:59). The Jews made “atonement for the dead that they might be freed from this sin” (2 Macc. 12:43–45). Finally, Hebrews 12:14 states that we must strive “for the holiness without which no one will see the Lord.”

I'm washed by the Blood of Christ. Nobody can get any cleaner that that.

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

I you are not a Catholic you are not a Christian in fact !

Protestants are Catholic you know. I seen it so many times printed on all of the pamphlets in Church C of E and the Lutheran Church.

They make claims that they are Catholic in fact, for good reason ! or they would be exposed ?

The Roman Catholic Church
The Lutheran Catholic Church
The Church of England claimed to be Catholic.