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to do with angels

Discussion in 'Christian Theology Forum' started by naomi, Jul 17, 2008.

  1. naomi

    naomi New Member

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    I was chatting to one of my friends at school today and he was asking me lots of stuff about Christianity which was cool becuase tbh I thought he was a satanist...!But he asked me something about angels1) Did God make angels or were they around with him in the beginning?2) If they were around with him in the beginning are they like demi-gods?and I really didn't know the answers to these two questions at all hence why I joined the forum really, to be able to ask other Chrisitians what they thought and stuff and just to get help for my witness to this guy at school. so yeah, any responses would be appreciated :)God Blessx
     
  2. watt

    watt New Member

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    IN THE NAME OF THE FATHER AND OF THE SON AND OF THE HOLY SPIRITHERE I AM AGAIN TO SHARE THE TRUTH OF GOD LOVE(naomi;55274)
    I was chatting to one of my friends at school today and he was asking me lots of stuff about Christianity which was cool becuase tbh I thought he was a satanist...!But he asked me something about angels1) Did God make angels or were they around with him in the beginning?2) If they were around with him in the beginning are they like demi-gods?and I really didn't know the answers to these two questions at all hence why I joined the forum really, to be able to ask other Chrisitians what they thought and stuff and just to get help for my witness to this guy at school. so yeah, any responses would be appreciated :)God Blessx
    An angel is a pure spirit created by God. The Old Testament theology included the belief in angels: the name applied to certain spiritual beings or intelligences of heavenly residence, employed by God as the ministersof His will. The English word "angel" comes from the Greek angelos, which means 'messenger'. In the Old Testament, with two exceptions, the Hebrew word for "angel" is malak, alsomeaning 'messenger'. The prophet Malachi took his name from this word. He was himself a messenger, and he prophesied about the coming of "the messenger of the covenant",Jesus Christ (Malachi 3:1). Although the word "angel" in the Bible, meaning a messenger, nearly always applies toheavenly beings, it can occasionally apply to human messengers. Malachi himself said a priest was a messenger (malak) of the LORD of hosts (Malachi 2:7), and in the Book of Revelation the elders of the seven churches of Asia were called angels (1:20; 2:1 etc.). But when we meet messengers doing supernatural things, there is no doubt they are heavenly beings - God's messengers, working for Him and for the ultimate benefit of mankind. MAY GOD BLESSAMENFROM WATT
     
  3. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

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    (naomi;55274)
    I was chatting to one of my friends at school today and he was asking me lots of stuff about Christianity which was cool becuase tbh I thought he was a satanist...!But he asked me something about angels1) Did God make angels or were they around with him in the beginning?2) If they were around with him in the beginning are they like demi-gods?and I really didn't know the answers to these two questions at all hence why I joined the forum really, to be able to ask other Chrisitians what they thought and stuff and just to get help for my witness to this guy at school. so yeah, any responses would be appreciated :)God Blessx
    Dear noami, God created those angels. They didn't exist with God. We were once angels, because God created those souls. There were no humans existed. And no, there is no such thing as a "demi-god" as your friend suggested.(watt;55283)
    IN THE NAME OF THE FATHER AND OF THE SON AND OF THE HOLY SPIRITHERE I AM AGAIN TO SHARE THE TRUTH OF GOD LOVE(naomi;55274)
    I was chatting to one of my friends at school today and he was asking me lots of stuff about Christianity which was cool becuase tbh I thought he was a satanist...!But he asked me something about angels1) Did God make angels or were they around with him in the beginning?2) If they were around with him in the beginning are they like demi-gods?and I really didn't know the answers to these two questions at all hence why I joined the forum really, to be able to ask other Chrisitians what they thought and stuff and just to get help for my witness to this guy at school. so yeah, any responses would be appreciated :)God Blessx
    An angel is a pure spirit created by God. The Old Testament theology included the belief in angels: the name applied to certain spiritual beings or intelligences of heavenly residence, employed by God as the ministersof His will. The English word "angel" comes from the Greek angelos, which means 'messenger'. In the Old Testament, with two exceptions, the Hebrew word for "angel" is malak, alsomeaning 'messenger'. The prophet Malachi took his name from this word. He was himself a messenger, and he prophesied about the coming of "the messenger of the covenant",Jesus Christ (Malachi 3:1). Although the word "angel" in the Bible, meaning a messenger, nearly always applies toheavenly beings, it can occasionally apply to human messengers. Malachi himself said a priest was a messenger (malak) of the LORD of hosts (Malachi 2:7), and in the Book of Revelation the elders of the seven churches of Asia were called angels (1:20; 2:1 etc.). But when we meet messengers doing supernatural things, there is no doubt they are heavenly beings - God's messengers, working for Him and for the ultimate benefit of mankind. MAY GOD BLESSAMENFROM WATTWatt, not again, not ALL angels are pure spirit, look at Satan, he is a fallen angels that wants to deceive the world. And Satan was created by God.
     
  4. tomwebster

    tomwebster New Member

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    Dear noami, ...Watt, not again, not ALL angels are pure spirit, look at Satan, he is a fallen angels that wants to deceive the world. And Satan was created by God.
    Satan was one of the anointed cerubs that covered the mercy seat and he was perfect in beauty.
     
  5. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

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    Satan was one of the anointed cerubs that covered the mercy seat and he was perfect in beauty.
    That's true. (Ezekiel 28:12-15)But then I was only looking at Lucifer on the inside, not the outside... (Hope you understand what I meant)
     
  6. tomwebster

    tomwebster New Member

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    That's true. (Ezekiel 28:12-15)But then I was only looking at Lucifer on the inside, not the outside... (Hope you understand what I meant)
    Yes, I know [​IMG]
     
  7. waquinas

    waquinas New Member

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    Jag,Watt did not use "pure" as in sinless. Pure in that context means a spiritual being that has and needs no body.
     
  8. naomi

    naomi New Member

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    thanks you guys :)I was more sure on the answer to the second question than the first. but in regards to the first on I wasn't totally sure what bible verses I could use to back up any point, although isn't there one somewhere about all life flowing from God and so then using that nothing can exist without God so angels then must have been createdanyway you guys have been really useful to me! Knowing Craig I'll probably be back with more questions after my history lesson on monday lolx
     
  9. watt

    watt New Member

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    IN THE NAME OF THE FATHER AND OF THE SON AND OF THE HOLY SPIRITHERE I AM AGAIN TO SHARE THE TRUTH OF GOD LOVE(thesuperjag;55284)
    Dear noami, God created those angels. They didn't exist with God. We were once angels, because God created those souls. There were no humans existed. And no, there is no such thing as a "demi-god" as your friend suggested.Watt, not again, not ALL angels are pure spirit, look at Satan, he is a fallen angels that wants to deceive the world. And Satan was created by God.
    Well...Noami did not ask about The fallen Angel...See!!! You are using flesh... sorryBut please read Noami post properly... our answer must related to the question.As what you said ........because God created those souls. SEE!!!YOUR WORD IS NOT FROM THE HOLY SPIRIT. I AM NOT JUDGING BUT THE FACT AND THE TRUTH IS THERE. WE MUST NOT LEAN ON OUR OWN UNDERSTANDING....BUT LET THE HOLY SPIRIT LEAD US...Please read my post again... then you will understand.MAY GOD BLESSAMENFROM WATT
     
  10. treeoflife

    treeoflife New Member

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    (watt;55393)
    IN THE NAME OF THE FATHER AND OF THE SON AND OF THE HOLY SPIRITHERE I AM AGAIN TO SHARE THE TRUTH OF GOD LOVEWell...Noami did not ask about The fallen Angel...See!!! You are using flesh... sorryBut please read Noami post properly... our answer must related to the question.As what you said ........because God created those souls. SEE!!!YOUR WORD IS NOT FROM THE HOLY SPIRIT. I AM NOT JUDGING BUT THE FACT AND THE TRUTH IS THERE. WE MUST NOT LEAN ON OUR OWN UNDERSTANDING....BUT LET THE HOLY SPIRIT LEAD US...Please read my post again... then you will understand.MAY GOD BLESSAMENFROM WATT
    Oh great... using flesh again. I hate when that happens.
     
  11. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

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    Oh great... using flesh again. I hate when that happens.
    Get used to it. Some things never changed.
     
  12. found in Alaska

    found in Alaska New Member

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    Dear noami, God created those angels. They didn't exist with God. We were once angels, because God created those souls. There were no humans existed. And no, there is no such thing as a "demi-god" as your friend suggested.
    A little help please, I missed the "We were once angels, because God created those souls." lecture, I'm sure it was an excused absence. In the interests of getting it right, could you provide scripture as a starting point. Thank you for your help...
     
  13. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

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    (found in Alaska;55496)
    (thesuperjag;55284)
    Dear noami,God created those angels. They didn't exist with God. We were once angels, because God created those souls. There were no humans existed. And no, there is no such thing as a "demi-god" as your friend suggested.
    A little help please, I missed the "We were once angels, because God created those souls." lecture, I'm sure it was an excused absence. In the interests of getting it right, could you provide scripture as a starting point. Thank you for your help...To able to understand what I'm saying here is, you have to learn His Words. So here is a couple of links for you to read a study. (Mine's shorter but color coded)http://www.christianityboard.com/earth-age...-study-t79.htmlhttp://www.christianityboard.com/earth-age...-study-t79.html
     
  14. naomi

    naomi New Member

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    okay what? completely missed that in that post about us being angels at one time! I don't know that I totally agree with that tbh. [found in Alaska, your veiws?]also Watt, my name is 'naomi' not noami, and I did understand your post, I'm not disputing that we should let the Holy Spirit guide us at all but at that point in time I couldn't think of any Bible verses to go with anything to do with this topic which is basically why I came on here.but am I right in there being some verse about lif flowing from God or something?x
     
  15. HammerStone

    HammerStone Well-Known Member Staff Member

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    Well, to start, you've got to understand that "angel" is Hebrew for messenger. The term angel denotes a role rather than something akin to a race. The other Scriptural observation is that angels are not female - which further underscores that they are not some type of race.The statement that they are spiritual beings makes sense:I Corinthians 15:50
    Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
     
  16. waquinas

    waquinas New Member

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    (naomi;55274)
    1) Did God make angels or were they around with him in the beginning?God Blessx
    And may God bless you.1) God made everything THAT IS (exists), seen and unseen, in Heaven and on earth. (bolding mine below)Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. Gen 2:4 ¶ These [are] the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,Isa 44:24 Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I [am] the LORD that maketh all [things]; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself; Rev 4:11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created. 2) No one else did it , just God, and He created EVERYTHING in heaven;Neh 9:6 Thou, [even] thou, [art] LORD alone; thou hast made heaven, the heaven of heavens, with all their host, the earth, and all [things] that [are] therein, the seas, and all that [is] therein, and thou preservest them all; and the host of heaven worshippeth thee. 3) From His Word (command) He created Everything:psa 148:2 Praise ye him, all his angels: praise ye him, all his hosts…………..:(end of sentence is verse:5) Let them praise the name of the LORD: for he commanded, and they were created. The LORD hath made all [things] for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil. 4) The Word (Jesus) was with God in the Beginning, when ALL things were made; nothing was made without Him (Jesus). All that IS, consist (to be or is) by Him (Jesus). Jhn 1:2 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God.All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether [they be] thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.The confusion about who was with God that He speaks to "in the Beginning" comes only from an incomplete understanding of the Trinity Doctrine, which is our feeble attempt at understanding what little has been revealed to us about God. We see from points 1-3 that the Bible clearly says God and God alone made everything that is; both what is unseen and seen, Heaven itself and all that is Heaven. Nothing that is, consists (“is”) without God. In point 3 the Psalmist clearly says and echoes Genesis, that the mode of creation was God’s Voice, His Word, His Command. In point 4 and for most Christians through all ages, that Voice, God’s Word, His Command is Jesus. These are all part of some foundational traits of what later develops into the Trinity Doctrine concerning God.The Trinity doctrine represents the end result of some very complex and deep ponderings on ALL that the scriptures tell us about God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit. It goes beyond the scope of this thread to discuss. In short, yes God made the angels. Neither they nor we existed with God in some pre-creation/pre Genesis age because as the Psalmist said it was God ALONE that made everything. The short answer for whom is referred to in “our” image and “likeness” is the Trinity; the Father, the Son and Holy Ghost. And you should also know that not all points of this view are shared by many here including the administrators.
     
  17. watt

    watt New Member

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    IN THE NAME OF THE FATHER AND OF THE SON AND OF THE HOLY SPIRITHERE I AM AGAIN TO SHARE THE TRUTH OF GOD LOVE(naomi;55613)
    okay what? completely missed that in that post about us being angels at one time! I don't know that I totally agree with that tbh. [found in Alaska, your veiws?]also Watt, my name is 'naomi' not noami, and I did understand your post, I'm not disputing that we should let the Holy Spirit guide us at all but at that point in time I couldn't think of any Bible verses to go with anything to do with this topic which is basically why I came on here.but am I right in there being some verse about lif flowing from God or something?x
    Thanks Naomi....actually I did say you disputing THE HOLY SPIRIT, it is very good you have come up with that wonderful question....as we know, we cannot keep anything which we consider as 'doubt' in our heart....praise THE LORD you've noticed this.To add in .....trying to determine when GOD created the angels is somewhat tricky because anything GOD before the foundation of the world” puts the event outside of time itself. Time and space are characteristics of our world, not GOD'S. HE is not limited by hours, days and years as we are. In fact, the Bible tells us that “with the LORD a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day” (2 Peter 3:8).We do know that GOD created the angels before he created the physical universe. The book of Job describes the angels worshipping God as He was creating the world: “Where were you when I laid the earth's foundation? Tell me, if you understand. Who marked off its dimensions? Surely you know! Who stretched a measuring line across it? On what were its footings set, or who laid its cornerstone - while the morning stars sang together and all the angels shouted for joy?” (Job 38:4-7).If we consider the function of angels, we might conclude that GOD created the angels just prior to the creation of mankind because one of their duties is to be “ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation” (Hebrews 1:14). We also know they existed prior to the Garden of Eden, because Satan, who was formerly the angel Lucifer, was already present in the Garden in his fallen state. However, because another function of angels is to worship GOD around His throne (Revelation 5:11-14), they may have been in existence millions of years—as we reckon time—before GOD created the world, worshipping Him and serving Him.So, although the Bible does not specifically say when God created the angels, it was sometime before the world was created. Whether this was a day before, or billions of years before—again, as we reckon time.MAY GOD BLESSAMENFROM WATT
     
  18. naomi

    naomi New Member

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    okay :)I haven't been on for ages but now that I have reappeared and read all of your posts that makes a lot more sense and is really useful to me so thankyou very much!Naomix
     
  19. jtartar

    jtartar New Member

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    (naomi;55274)
    I was chatting to one of my friends at school today and he was asking me lots of stuff about Christianity which was cool becuase tbh I thought he was a satanist...!But he asked me something about angels1) Did God make angels or were they around with him in the beginning?2) If they were around with him in the beginning are they like demi-gods?and I really didn't know the answers to these two questions at all hence why I joined the forum really, to be able to ask other Chrisitians what they thought and stuff and just to get help for my witness to this guy at school. so yeah, any responses would be appreciated :)God Blessx
    naomi, Several places in the Holy Scriptures we are told that the very first thing that God created was His son, Col 1:15, Rev 3:14, Prov 8:22-31. Jesus said that he lives because of the Father, John 6:57. John 1:1-3, speaks of the Word, which is Jesus. Verse 3 tells that all things were made for Jesus and through Jesus, also Col 1:16,17. Also consider Rev 19:13,John 1:1,14. Since all other things were made for Jesus and through him, the angels were also created for Jesus and through Jesus. Remember that Prov 8:30, mentions Jesus as being the Master Worker. Only God, whose personal name is Jehovah, Ps 83:18, is omnific, meaning able to create things out of nothing. Jesus was the Master Worker that made things out of the created materials. God made all His intelligent beings to work. They carry out God's purpose, Ps 33:6,9, Ps 103:20,21.
     
  20. waquinas

    waquinas New Member

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    Naomi,I do not think it proper to think of Jesus as "created". He was with the Father in the Beginning. He is called the "First Born" of the Father. However, God is a Spirit and spirits do not "give birth". The meaning of "First Born" rather than indicating an act of creation(birth) must be more of recognition of the Honor given The Son. The same sense people of those days gave honor to their "first born" (as long as the first child was male that is).Consider this as well, every act of creation is depicted as God, the Father speaking. God SAID "Let there be Light." What is speech? Words. What do we call words when spoken by God? We say those words are "The Word". Who is Jesus said to be by John in the opening of his gospel? He says Jesus is "The Word". The concept of a Trinity is difficult for us to fully comprehend. If the idea of "God" were easy for us to understand, if we could fully comprehend Him then He really would not be God would He? It is however hard to imagine God not having His Word. In effect being speechless. So I think the idea should evolve in our minds that the Father speaks and His Words are Jesus. It would be in that sense that Jesus, like the Father; "was in the beginning, is now and ever shall be"
     
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