To pray or not?

[Lifelong_sinner]

Hello all. I have a question about praying. John 9:31 says “We know that God does not listen to sinners, but if anyone is a worshiper of God and does his will, God listens to him.”

So should the unsaved only pray for salvation and repentance? If an unsaved person asks for forgiveness daily for a habitual sin, is that an insult to God?

 

[AceWestfall08]

In my opinion, Praying is the act of talking to god/thinking about him/seeking him. It is not asking for something. I think prayer is misdefined. I think God hears all who seek him, and chooses to respond when the time is ready for those who are able to be ready.

 

[farouk]

In my opinion, Praying is the act of talking to god/thinking about him/seeking him. It is not asking for something. I think prayer is misdefined. I think God hears all who seek him, and chooses to respond when the time is ready for those who are able to be ready.

@AceWestfall08 Romans 8 shows how the believer cries 'Abba, Father'; it's such a searching chapter with relevance to prayer.

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

In my opinion, Praying is the act of talking to god/thinking about him/seeking him. It is not asking for something. I think prayer is misdefined. I think God hears all who seek him, and chooses to respond when the time is ready for those who are able to be ready.

so if a person is confessing their sins, do you consider that to be prayer?

 

[AceWestfall08]

God gave us a conscience for a reason. That isnt necessarily prayer. But my dad is a believer that god speaks to us through our conscience. Confessing your sin I think is being able to open up and be honest about your sin. Like not be in Denial about it.

 

[farouk]

God gave us a conscience for a reason. That isnt necessarily prayer. But my dad is a believer that god speaks to us through our conscience. Confessing your sin I think is being able to open up and be honest about your sin. Like not be in Denial about it.

@AceWestfall08 Hebrews 9 speaks of the believer's conscience being purged:

"For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:

How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?" (Hebrews 9.13-14).

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

God gave us a conscience for a reason. That isnt necessarily prayer. But my dad is a believer that god speaks to us through our conscience. Confessing your sin I think is being able to open up and be honest about your sin. Like not be in Denial about it.

a conscience is important, but in my experience, you cant count on it. The more we sin, knowingly, the easier it is for our conscience to become suppressed, how many people you ever heard of having affairs who sleep like a baby at nite. Their conscience cant be relied on.
Confessing your sins, where the same sin is happening over and over, is an insult to the Lord. It makes you a hypocrite and it shouldnt be done. If you have a habitual sin, there is a high probability you aint saved.

 

[AceWestfall08]

It's all a matter of the heart. People can struggle with addictions to sin and be in chains. Your philosophy is letting them be stuck in those chains. There are so many distractions and the culture is about drama, most people don't take God seriously to hear God. God is told them in the approach of a story. Or portrayed as a wishing well. Or as words in a well known book. No, God wants to be in control of our life and most people can't "trust" him with it. It doesn't mean they don't feel bad about sinning.

My thoughts are not your thoughts

 

[farouk]

It's all a matter of the heart. People can struggle with addictions to sin and be in chains. Your philosophy is letting them be stuck in those chains. There are so many distractions and the culture is about drama, most people don't take God seriously to hear God. God is told them in the approach of a story. Or portrayed as a wishing well. No, God wants to be in control of our life and most people can't "trust" him with it. It doesn't mean they don't feel bad about sinning.

My thoughts are not your thoughts

@AceWestfall08 Reminds me of Isaiah 55.6-11:

"Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near:

7 Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.

8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.

9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

10 For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater:

11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it."

 

[AceWestfall08]

We can't know the Lord's thoughts about a person. They may be unrepentant in one area of there life but in a whole different area the Lord is working on them. Nobody can truly know another person's relationship with God. I believe he comes in many forms and talks to us through all channels, even other religions

 

[farouk]

We can't know the Lord's thoughts about a person. They may be unrepentant in one area of there life but in a whole different area the Lord is working on them. Nobody can truly know another person's relationship with God. I believe he comes in many forms and talks to us through all channels, even other religions

Your ref. to Isaiah 55 was good; and the Lord indeed searches the heart. There is also John 14.6; and John 1.14. Colossians 2.9 says, 'In Him dwelleth all the fullness of the Godhead bodily'.

 

[Rita]

Hello all. I have a question about praying. John 9:31 says “We know that God does not listen to sinners, but if anyone is a worshiper of God and does his will, God listens to him.”

So should the unsaved only pray for salvation and repentance? If an unsaved person asks for forgiveness daily for a habitual sin, is that an insult to God?

It might be wise to read that verse in context. The words were spoken by the Pharisees in response to a healing by Jesus. They were questioning who Jesus was ….they saw the blind man as a sinner, so how could Jesus possibly be God because God had nothing to do with sinners ! ( or at least that’s how I read the passage )
So is the statement about prayer true or is it just the Pharisees reasoning being proclaimed as a truth ?
Rita

 

[farouk]

Repentance is a lasting and ongoing work of God in a believer's heart: "For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death." (2 Corinthians 7.10)

 

[Rita]

On a personal note I think any communication with God is valuable, regardless to who you are or where you stand. Prayer is communication and through asking one thing The Lord may well use that openness in many ways. Jesus used communication in many ways, like the women at the well. The Jews would not have even had that conversation with her because of where she came from. Jesus showed that he knew her, her circumstances and that conversation led to her receiving the Lord……I realise that is a different context x

 

[Windmillcharge]

If an unsaved person asks for forgiveness daily for a habitual sin, is that an insult to God?

Yes.

He knows he is doing wrong and is not doing anything about it.
example, a drunk knows he has to stop drinking, yet continues, he will not change his habits/face his addiction. Your friend knows he needs salvation, it's why he prays for forgiveness but will not face the issue of submitting to God in repentance and accepting salvation.

So untill he does that his prayers for forgiveness are a slap in Gods face.

 

[Lambano]

I have no doubt whatsoever that the dark Powers That Be would love to give a sinner some intellectual reason to NOT confess their sins before Almighty God, to NOT seek forgiveness of sins. It’s the best way to keep the unsaved, unsaved.

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

I have no doubt whatsoever that the dark Powers That Be would love to give a sinner some intellectual reason to NOT confess their sins before Almighty God, to NOT seek forgiveness of sins. It’s the best way to keep the unsaved, unsaved.

ya know, i’ve been thinking all day about what me and my pastor talked about. Most of the time after i talk to a pastor, they try to make you feel better. Not today. I felt like as bad as my views are towards salvation, it may not be bad enough. We were discussing the WCF and how it was painting those who do have sins and struggle, theres no guarantee you’ll win. And how that in itself could be a sign you are not of the elect. It was a very somber meeting. And i dont feel very good about my prospects.

 

[Lambano]

If an unsaved person asks for forgiveness daily for a habitual sin, is that an insult to God?

So untill he does that his prayers for forgiveness are a slap in Gods face.

The unsaved person bloody well ought to pray for forgiveness. "When you ain't got nothin', you got nothin' to lose." He's going to Hell anyway; what's the point in worrying about which bolgia in Hell he gets sent to?

"Freedom's just another word for, 'nothin' left to lose'".

There. I got a Dante reference, a Dylan quote, and a Kris Kristofferson quote all in one post. Though I'll always hear Bobby McGee in Janis Joplin's raspy (but lovely) voice. Another talented one who's life was wasted due to drug abuse.

 

[Lambano]

ya know, i’ve been thinking all day about what me and my pastor talked about. Most of the time after i talk to a pastor, they try to make you feel better. Not today. I felt like as bad as my views are towards salvation, it may not be bad enough. We were discussing the WCF and how it was painting those who do have sins and struggle, theres no guarantee you’ll win. And how that in itself could be a sign you are not of the elect. It was a very somber meeting. And i dont feel very good about my prospects.

Maybe. Like you were saying on the other thread, maybe God is letting you finally see yourself as you really are. But, to borrow a piece of wisdom from sister Stunned By Grace, that God is giving you more light to see yourself should give you a little hope that He wants you to get clean, and He wants you to get saved.

I'll keep praying for you. I don't have anything else to hold onto either, except that Jesus told us and showed us that His father was merciful and gracious and loving. You keep praying too, y'hear? Don't worry that God'll feel insulted and send you to a deeper circle in Hell. They all suck anyways.

Now go do what you need to do.

 

[Taken]

Hello all. I have a question about praying. John 9:31 says “We know that God does not listen to sinners, but if anyone is a worshiper of God and does his will, God listens to him.”

An unsaved person has an “intercessor/advocate” he can pray to. JESUS.