Today’s Jews the same as the ones in the Bible?

[Taken]

why don't you investigate what the Israelites suffered in WWII at the hands of Germany and see for yourself if "Jew" is understood as sons of Abraham Isaac and Jacob or not. the whole world understands what is meant by the word "Jew" no matter its origin.

A Jew WAS one who could trace their historical blood line through their own history, and one WHO was under and subject to the Spiritual Laws given Moses, and the Curse Laws given Aaron, and forwarding from Arrons' descendants being Priests.

Basically what is being discussed is...
People have scattered, mixed Jews and Gentiles, and the blood line, moot.

And the Priest's from ONLY Arron's line...also moot.

And Scripture itself, no longer delineating a difference between a Jew or Gentile.

It does not matter, Jew or Gentile, IF either believe in their Heart, IN GOD, IN the WORD of God, having come in the Flesh....

They become Forgiven FOR their disbelief;
And Converted and Kept, by Gods Power.
And they become Gods People, that He calls by the name ISRAEL.

Some Jews, believe, some don't.
Some Gentiles, believe, some don't.

It isn't the NAME of the Religion, the BLOOD-line of a MAN, the RACE of a man, the TRADITIONS of a man, the CULTURE of a man, or language, or his geolographical location, or what men had the most severe hardship, or anything else that SAVES a man;
But the Lord Himself, Who, during the order of saving, THAT MAN receives the Seed of God, for FOREVER Life with the Lord His God.

God Bless,

 

[APAK]

A Jew WAS one who could trace their historical blood line through their own history, and one WHO was under and subject to the Spiritual Laws given Moses, and the Curse Laws given Aaron, and forwarding from Arrons' descendants being Priests.

Basically what is being discussed is...
People have scattered, mixed Jews and Gentiles, and the blood line, moot.

And the Priest's from ONLY Arron's line...also moot.

And Scripture itself, no longer delineating a difference between a Jew or Gentile.

It does not matter, Jew or Gentile, IF either believe in their Heart, IN GOD, IN the WORD of God, having come in the Flesh....

They become Forgiven FOR their disbelief;
And Converted and Kept, by Gods Power.
And they become Gods People, that He calls by the name ISRAEL.

Some Jews, believe, some don't.
Some Gentiles, believe, some don't.

It isn't the NAME of the Religion, the BLOOD-line of a MAN, the RACE of a man, the TRADITIONS of a man, the CULTURE of a man, or language, or his geolographical location, or what men had the most severe hardship, or anything else that SAVES a man;
But the Lord Himself, Who, during the order of saving, THAT MAN receives the Seed of God, for FOREVER Life with the Lord His God.

God Bless,

Taken: I wish more folks would read your words. This thread was not generated because folks believes in these words, it was generated because many, many folks do not believe these types of words you have written.

They think that the current State of Israel is the real deal and that all ethnic Jews or Israelites if they could know their ancestry will somehow en masse believe in Christ and are still somehow different for the Israel of all peoples that believe in Christ no matter their background.

And that this thinking is because of a lack of knowledge that a secondary meaning has been created over the last few hundred years making modern day Jewry, non-ethnic Jewry the replacement of the original Jews and their representation.

Because of these ill-thought out beliefs or ignorance of them, many are creating prophetic theories for a separate 'Israel' beside the true Israel of scripture, as you have pointed out.

Thanks bro,

APAK

 

[Taken]

Taken: I wish more folks would read your words. This thread was not generated because folks believes in these words, it was generated because many, many folks do not believe these types of words you have written.

They think that the current State of Israel is the real deal and that all ethnic Jews or Israelites if they could know their ancestry will somehow en masse believe in Christ and are still somehow different for the Israel of all peoples that believe in Christ no matter their background.

And that this thinking is because of a lack of knowledge that a secondary meaning has been created over the last few hundred years making modern day Jewry, non-ethnic Jewry the replacement of the original Jews and their representation.

Because of these ill-thought out beliefs or ignorance of them, many are creating prophetic theories for a separate 'Israel' beside the true Israel of scripture, as you have pointed out.

Thanks bro,

APAK

Read some stats...from interviews; alarming some of the findings. Nearly every person identifying with Christianity claims to own a Bible, but does not read it. They are being called Biblical illiterates.

In my view, THAT is an issue...

However as well, when something new is revealed in Scripture, particularly to one who has historically been steeped in ONE thing, it is a difficult personal process for THAT person, to mesh, sort out the differences, grasp hold of the new information, that may partly or wholly relieve the person from what they had been historically steeped in.

Kind of like the old saying, for one having lost a spouse, saying they could never remarry;
Because they are too set in their ways.
(Funny they don't recall being set in their ways before...and marriage IS about meshing, and compromising, to set aside what each "was".)

Scripture is sort of like that. From the beginning of man to this day....preparing children, to trust, to believe, to be under umpteen rules, till they get the big picture and don't require the rule book, and time out, and grounded....the rules change, become miminial, precisely because they are becoming prepared for the ULTIMATE union, of themselves with Christ.

A man WITHOUT Christ requires many rules.
And geeze, he can't keep them

A man WITH Christ requires two commands;
...love the Lord...Love people (paraphrasing)

And even THAT, a man can not Keep, without Christ's Power within him.

God is NOT needy of a man for anything.
But a man IS needy of God for everything.

Inanutshell, I think ^ THAT is obscured, and not impressed upon people enough.

Many appearing to be, whoo hoo, I'm saved, good enough, that was all I needed.

And to the point -
God early on made a division between Hebrews and Gentiles, among Noah's 3 sons.

Jesus shows up and MAKES a gathering together of Jews and Gentiles, ie ALL People....
then He MAKES NEW division, that applies to ALL People....

Jesus begins by...the same way God did in the beginning...

Announcing...
I'm the LORD your God....I'm Jesus, the Son of God

Announcing what they SHALL do.

Then Doing the works...that men can see.

Appealing to men, to believe the works they see.

Then appealing to men, if they can believe the works they see, then also trust to believe in the one who DID the works, and the one who SENT Him to do the works, for they are ONE.

And Jesus' DIVISION, IS:
Applicable to ALL men...

Believe in the Christ Messiah and the One Who sent Him, for they are ONE.

Or NOT.

And for the ones who read and study Scripture; This DIVISION is quite simple...

A man, any man, Jew or Gentile, by whatever name, title, religious application he applies to himself.....
is either WITH GOD or AGAINST GOD.
Period.

And at any time the Son of man shall appear and collect, (redeem) up to Him, those that are WITH Him..

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Taken]

APAK ~

Matt 2:6..."my people Israel".

A land is not Gods people. Land is an inheritance of Gods people.

Gods people are those WHO have received the Seed of God. They ARE Israel.
Abraham received the Seed of God, AND by promise, he became the earthly "father" of every person who has/ or will received the Seed of God, and those people become a child of Abraham, which then makes them heirs to Abraham's promise land.

Which will be real handy, since Abraham's Land is where Christ's earthly everlasting Throne is Located. (When God established it and king David was seated) But no issue, Because long ago Christ blessed Abraham with the Seed of God, and thereafter, Jesus took on the "seed/Seed of Abraham", making Jesus one of Abraham's "Sons"....ie Son of man; and thus Jesus is also an heir to Abraham's promised Land.

Need Scriptures for this...?

God Bless,
Taken

 

[APAK]

Read some stats...from interviews; alarming some of the findings. Nearly every person identifying with Christianity claims to own a Bible, but does not read it. They are being called Biblical illiterates.

In my view, THAT is an issue...

However as well, when something new is revealed in Scripture, particularly to one who has historically been steeped in ONE thing, it is a difficult personal process for THAT person, to mesh, sort out the differences, grasp hold of the new information, that may partly or wholly relieve the person from what they had been historically steeped in.

Kind of like the old saying, for one having lost a spouse, saying they could never remarry;
Because they are too set in their ways.
(Funny they don't recall being set in their ways before...and marriage IS about meshing, and compromising, to set aside what each "was".)

Scripture is sort of like that. From the beginning of man to this day....preparing children, to trust, to believe, to be under umpteen rules, till they get the big picture and don't require the rule book, and time out, and grounded....the rules change, become miminial, precisely because they are becoming prepared for the ULTIMATE union, of themselves with Christ.

A man WITHOUT Christ requires many rules.
And geeze, he can't keep them

A man WITH Christ requires two commands;
...love the Lord...Love people (paraphrasing)

And even THAT, a man can not Keep, without Christ's Power within him.

God is NOT needy of a man for anything.
But a man IS needy of God for everything.

Inanutshell, I think ^ THAT is obscured, and not impressed upon people enough.

Many appearing to be, whoo hoo, I'm saved, good enough, that was all I needed.

And to the point -
God early on made a division between Hebrews and Gentiles, among Noah's 3 sons.

Jesus shows up and MAKES a gathering together of Jews and Gentiles, ie ALL People....
then He MAKES NEW division, that applies to ALL People....

Jesus begins by...the same way God did in the beginning...

Announcing...
I'm the LORD your God....I'm Jesus, the Son of God

Announcing what they SHALL do.

Then Doing the works...that men can see.

Appealing to men, to believe the works they see.

Then appealing to men, if they can believe the works they see, then also trust to believe in the one who DID the works, and the one who SENT Him to do the works, for they are ONE.

And Jesus' DIVISION, IS:
Applicable to ALL men...

Believe in the Christ Messiah and the One Who sent Him, for they are ONE.

Or NOT.

And for the ones who read and study Scripture; This DIVISION is quite simple...

A man, any man, Jew or Gentile, by whatever name, title, religious application he applies to himself.....
is either WITH GOD or AGAINST GOD.
Period.

And at any time the Son of man shall appear and collect, (redeem) up to Him, those are WITH Him..

God Bless,
Taken

Taken: You are in the zone .I can tell (somehow)

We as believers spin our wheels excessively by not taking the time out to reassess what we know about the truth
....list the things we think we know a lot about to the least of what we know.
I seem to do this all the time...I need to or I feel compelled to do it

There are things (many) that are still a work in progress as far as my truth knowledge goes...
I would not recommend that folks read the Bible from front to back, even several times a year and say they are done.
Must read for meaning using the rules of interpreting scripture...

This chat site is a great way to think and gain knowledge about the truth. I pick up stuff all the time and weigh it against my spiritual database.

The Bible comes alive when the spirit of God guides our minds to the truth....

Bless you,

APAK

 

[Taken]

Taken: You are in the zone .I can tell (somehow)

We as believers spin our wheels excessively by not taking the time out to reassess what we know about the truth
....list the things we think we know a lot about to the least of what we know.
I seem to do this all the time...I need to or I feel compelled to do it

There are things (many) that are still a work in progress as far as my truth knowledge goes...
I would not recommend that folks read the Bible from front to back, even several times a year and say they are done.
Must read for meaning using the rules of interpreting scripture...

This chat site is a great way to think and gain knowledge about the truth. I pick up stuff all the time and weigh it against my spiritual database.

The Bible comes alive when the spirit of God guides our minds to the truth....

Bless you,

APAK

Neither would I recommend reading Scripture in the fashion like a novel from front to back.

I was not raised in a Church, nor attend a Church. My spouse and I had an idea to study Law on our own. Big surprise, what a garbled mess. So we back up and learned HOW to Learn. Afterward through studying the Law (actually started with Federal Law), it began to make sense. There after we decided to tackle the Bible, and used the same "HOW to Learn" principles. And the very basics is the very same, we learn in elementary school...WHO, WHAT, WHEN, WHY, WHERE...
Which IS the basics for determining Applicability.

Scripture is unique: to reveal things that for ALL ERAS, ALL People; there is an Applicability that fits EACH. And there are many Scriptures that apply to some, but not all others.
Also one VERSE, may have applicability to two completely different people, or eras.

It is a condunrum; when one is being taught ALL of Scripture is True...but not ALL Scripture applies to Every person.

People are generally quick to flip through the Bible and Declare another person is WRONG, because the person has found a Scripture they are attempting to apply to the other person, when it doesn't apply.

Only the individual knows their own heart (and God of course), but saying the individual knows what they have and have not done;
Confessed to the Lord, received from the Lord, fellowship with the Lord, do works of Service to Glorifiy His Name....others can not possibly know all an individual does, for others to determine WHAT does or does not apply to that person.

Something I don't think most consider IS;
Individuals Fulfill Scripture. Once fulfilled; it's done.

Just as Jesus fulfilled; It's done. He doesn't keep repeating coming back to earth, hanging on cross, over and over.

I also like to WORD study. Which is basically choosing ANY WORD, hope, love, marriage, whatever...and studying that Word in the entirety of Scriptures. That is more involved, since some words are mentioned hundreds of times, and you have to read nearly the whole chapter to put the word in context.
And I often compare texts with Several Bibles, sometimes a few, sometimes many Bibles.

It's simply choosing methods of How one chooses to learn. Read and hope it makes sense to ones Mind; or gather the knowledge, see what it meant to the ones being spoken to or of; and go through the basics of application to oneself...then be like a busy little bee in Gods Ear, asking Him to reveal HIS WISDOM of the Knowlege and HIS UNDERSTANDING of the Knowledge one is diligent to read and study the Knowledge.

I rarely watch TV, and daily study Scriptures.
Peculiar...I'm EXTREME for his Word...lol
And TV soaps, sports, e-gads "reality" garbage, and the pretend US "news", does not trip my trigger.

But that's all good for me..Peculiar!!

Only mentioned 8 times in Scripture...but an Honrable term...mentioning a few...

Deut 14:2
...the LORD hast chosen thee to be a peculiar people unto himself....

Pss 135:4 <-- Jacob..AND ISRAEL..
Titus 2:14
1 Pet 2:9

Not bragging, just sharing what works for me.

God Bless you abundantly,
Taken

 

[101G]

GINOLJC, to all. Haven't read all of the post, but addressing the OP only. it makes no different who is a Jew Naturally, not today. but it is very important to know who a Jew is today, spiritually. for the bible is clear as to who a Jew is. Romans 2:28 & 29 "For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: 29 "But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God".

arguing over flesh is not of God.

PCY.

 

[Taken]

GINOLJC, to all. Haven't read all of the post, but addressing the OP only. it makes no different who is a Jew Naturally, not today. but it is very important to know who a Jew is today, spiritually. for the bible is clear as to who a Jew is. Romans 2:28 & 29 "For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: 29 "But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God".

arguing over flesh is not of God.

PCY.

Yes. That was TO "Jewish" males whom according to their Law, from Abraham forward were taught to give a piece for their own flesh, unto death.

Paul was teaching; giving of the foreskin flesh; no long applies. Jesus came; gave His whole body of flesh, for all men. Men thereafter give their whole body spiritually crucified with Christ; and thereafter it is the Holy Spirit who does the Spiritual circumcision of mans heart. Which is cutting off the mans OLD natural "TRUTH" (a mans natural truth about God). And filling the mans heart with a "new spirit", ie a born again spirit (born "OF" Gods Seed); and then filling the mans spirit WITH a NEW TRUTH of God, about God, ie Gods Holy Spirit of TRUTH.

THAT is what Paul was teaching Jews, IS a Jew. They were no longer delineated as Jews; by foreskin circumcision as had been taught in their Law. This was something new and different to the Jews, who had for centuries been giving their foreskin, in obedience to God.
Gentiles were never subject to foreskin cutting of flesh giving it to die.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Helen]

@Taken #26 excellent post. You have been "on a roll" today.
( and I've enjoyed reading a few of your posts without THE CAPS ON!! )

 

[101G]

Paul was teaching; giving of the foreskin flesh; no long applies

I agree, but it NEVER did apply nor was it required to worship Jesus our God, ot or NT. supportive scripture, Deuteronomy 10:15 "Only the LORD had a delight in thy fathers to love them, and he chose their seed after them, even you above all people, as it is this day. 16 "Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked. 17 "For the LORD your God is God of gods, and Lord of lords, a great God, a mighty, and a terrible, which regardeth not persons, nor taketh reward"

Our brother Stephen re-certified this, Acts 7:51 "Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye". yes, they resist the Holy Ghost then as well as now.

PCY.

 

[Taken]

@Taken #26 excellent post. You have been "on a roll" today.
( and I've enjoyed reading a few of your posts without THE CAPS ON!! )

Good to hear.
Eh, I know, the caps. Using my phone, it is easier for me to emphasize with caps, then bold or color being moreso a preferred choice.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Taken]

I agree, but it NEVER did apply nor was it required to worship Jesus our God, ot or NT. supportive scripture, Deuteronomy 10:15 "Only the LORD had a delight in thy fathers to love them, and he chose their seed after them, even you above all people, as it is this day. 16 "Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked. 17 "For the LORD your God is God of gods, and Lord of lords, a great God, a mighty, and a terrible, which regardeth not persons, nor taketh reward"

Our brother Stephen re-certified this, Acts 7:51 "Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye". yes, they resist the Holy Ghost then as well as now.

PCY.

I get what you are saying.
Do you think the common general men hearing "circumcise the foreskin of your heart", understood what that meant?

Even in Acts, yes respoken....Hearing knowledge doesn't mean "understanding" the knowledge.

"The stiffneckedness" applies to simply not believing what one was hearing....without understanding.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Stranger]

The Jews that are in the land now are of the Jews who were scattered all over the north and other countries.

(Jeremiah 23:7-8) "Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that they shall no more say, The LORD liveth, which brought up the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt; But, The LORD liveth,which brought up and which led the seed of the house of Israel out of the north country, and from all countries whither I had driven them; and they shall dwell in their own land."

Stranger

 

[Taken]

I agree, but it NEVER did apply nor was it required to worship Jesus our God, ot or NT. supportive scripture, Deuteronomy 10:15 "Only the LORD had a delight in thy fathers to love them, and he chose their seed after them, even you above all people, as it is this day. 16 "Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked. 17 "For the LORD your God is God of gods, and Lord of lords, a great God, a mighty, and a terrible, which regardeth not persons, nor taketh reward"

Our brother Stephen re-certified this, Acts 7:51 "Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye". yes, they resist the Holy Ghost then as well as now.

PCY.

I sort of left the last response hanging...

God prepared for every man to become converted; from natural to spiritual; which results in the ultimate "with" the Lord; ie being able to SEE and HEAR Him. (Which is future that men then and now "WAIT" for)

The body MUST become DEAD, before it can become converted. DEAD, as the Lord accounts it as DEAD. (Because what men can SEE, (ie the body), it is still physically alive).

The foreskin, is a Part of the Body, where Deut mentions. The actual foreskin, was a directive to Abraham in Gen. 17; CUT it off.

It is a foreshadow of the NT and today; of a man CUTTING off his OLD flesh; ie being crucified with Christ. It is a destruction of the OLD flesh, (from a mans natural seed), becoming prepared to receive the SEED of God, in his "old natural heart" ? No. In a new heart, the Lord prepares, by Cutting of the OLD natural Heart, and giving a man a new heart.

Thus the Circumcision; was taught in "stages" bit, by bit. Isa 28:10

And the result is always the same, regardless of the Era, or what people actually understood.

The flesh IS sin. And must become dead, ie cut off; before it can be justified to be made forever alive. (Justified), because the flesh continues to physically live; but TO GOD has satisfied Him, to be accounted DEAD.

Did the Hebrews understand? Some perhaps, the majority, I doubt. Point being, simply obeying Gods Word, is what God requires; Trust His Word it is TRUTH; and the understanding will come later.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[101G]

Did the Hebrews understand? Some perhaps, the majority, I doubt. Point being, simply obeying Gods Word, is what God requires; Trust His Word it is TRUTH; and the understanding will come later.

GINOLJC, to all. first thanks for the response. second all did not know but some did. Grace was always before the LAW. the LAW only physically showed them what they could not see Spiritually.

but the scriptures are clear, Micah 6:8 "He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?". this is quoted from Deuteronomy 10:12 "And now, Israel, what doth the LORD thy God require of thee, but to fear the LORD thy God, to walk in all his ways, and to love him, and to serve the LORD thy God with all thy heart and with all thy soul, 13 "To keep the commandments of the LORD, and his statutes, which I command thee this day for thy good?".

and yes it came later, verse 15 Only the LORD had a delight in thy fathers to love them, and he chose their seed after them, even you above all people, as it is this day".

PCY.

 

[prashanthd]

This is a big deal because many Christian folk think that the contemporary Jew is from the land of Palestine and Judea, and they count on this fact to merge or support their 19th century theories of the Rapture, the future Temple etc....on this basis.
This to me is great deception of monumental proportions….
Is this the great deception spoke of that would just fall short of fooling the elect?

APAK

Thought I should post here because the consequences matter to me as well. Nice to find there are people who could come up with a research on this.
The present nation of Israel was formed between 1947 and 1950 and is not the one which was formed by God as given in the Bible. So I wonder how can the present one hold the same significance as the one that was formed during Biblical times?
People are so crazy, specially in a country like ours! I had to discuss with my dad over and over again He even thought the nation had been continuously existing from the Biblical times!
No big deal for me to think of visiting this place either because of Matt 24:2 .
I think there should be awareness created among the Christians about the history of the present nation.

 

[Davy]

Thought I should post here because the consequences matter to me as well. Nice to find there are people who could come up with a research on this.
The present nation of Israel was formed between 1947 and 1950 and is not the one which was formed by God as given in the Bible. So I wonder how can the present one hold the same significance as the one that was formed during Biblical times?
People are so crazy, specially in a country like ours! I had to discuss with my dad over and over again He even thought the nation had been continuously existing from the Biblical times!
No big deal for me to think of visiting this place either because of Matt 24:2 .
I think there should be awareness created among the Christians about the history of the present nation.

Might want to think about this:

1 Kings 11:28-36
28 And the man Jeroboam was a mighty man of valour: and Solomon seeing the young man that he was industrious, he made him ruler over all the charge of the house of Joseph.
29 And it came to pass at that time when Jeroboam went out of Jerusalem, that the prophet Ahijah the Shilonite found him in the way; and he had clad himself with a new garment; and they two were alone in the field:
30 And Ahijah caught the new garment that was on him, and rent it in twelve pieces:
31 And he said to Jeroboam, 'Take thee ten pieces: for thus saith the LORD, the God of Israel, 'Behold, I will rend the kingdom out of the hand of Solomon, and will give ten tribes to thee:
32(But he shall have one tribe for My servant David's sake, and for Jerusalem's sake, the city which I have chosen out of all the tribes of Israel
33 Because that they have forsaken Me, and have worshipped Ashtoreth the goddess of the Zidonians, Chemosh the god of the Moabites, and Milcom the god of the children of Ammon, and have not walked in My ways, to do that which is right in Mine eyes, and to keep My statutes and My judgments, as did David his father.
34 Howbeit I will not take the whole kingdom out of his hand: but I will make him prince all the days of his life for David My servant's sake, whom I chose, because he kept My commandments and My statutes:
35 But I will take the kingdom out of his son's hand, and will give it unto thee, even ten tribes.
36 And unto his son will I give one tribe, that David My servant may have a light alway before Me in Jerusalem, the city which I have chosen Me to put My name there.
KJV

Because of what Solomon did, marrying wives of the nations to allow their false gods into Israel, God split old Israel into two kingdoms, giving Jeroboam of the tribe of Ephraim ten tribes to rule over as king in the northern lands. Solomon's son Rehoboam ruled over two tribes (Judah and Benjamin) in the southern kingdom at Jerusalem. Even though God did this, He said He would always leave one tribe at Jerusalem, even though it would be a small remnant of the house of Judah.

That is why since in those days of Solomon's son, there has always been a small remnant of the house of Judah at Jerusalem. Even during Judah's 70 years captivity to Babylon, there was left a small poor remnant of Judah in the land. It is also why today's nation state of Israel exists, but again with only a small remnant of true Judah there. Today's Israel coming into existence is not just because of the nation's U.N. vote on it to make it come to pass; God has ordained it long ago there in that 1 Kings 11 Scripture.

 

[Stranger]

Thought I should post here because the consequences matter to me as well. Nice to find there are people who could come up with a research on this.
The present nation of Israel was formed between 1947 and 1950 and is not the one which was formed by God as given in the Bible. So I wonder how can the present one hold the same significance as the one that was formed during Biblical times?
People are so crazy, specially in a country like ours! I had to discuss with my dad over and over again He even thought the nation had been continuously existing from the Biblical times!
No big deal for me to think of visiting this place either because of Matt 24:2 .
I think there should be awareness created among the Christians about the history of the present nation.

(Jer. 30:11) "For I am with thee, saith the LORD, to save thee: though I make a full end of all nations whiter I have scattered thee, ye will I not make a full end of thee:..."

(Jer. 31:10) "Hear the word of the LORD, O ye nations, and declare it in the isles afar off, and say, He that scattered Israel will gather him, and keep him, as a shepherd doth his flock."

(Jer. 31:35-36) "Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts is his name: If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me forever."

(Jer. 31:37) "Thus saith the LORD; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the LORD."

(Jer. 33:12-21) "Thus saith the LORD of hosts; Again in this place, which is desolate without man and without beast, and in all the cities thereof, shall be an habitation of shepherds causing their flocks to lie down. In the cities of the mountains, in the cities of thevale, and in the cities of the south, and in the land of Benjamin, and in the places about Jerusalem, and int the cities of Judah, shall the flocks pass again under the hands of him that telleth them,saith the LORD.

"Behold,the days come,saith the LORD, that I will perform that good thing which I have promised unto the house of Israel and to the house of Judah. In those days, and at that time, will I cause the Branch of righteousness to grow up unto David; and he shall execute judgment and righteousness in the land. In those days shall Judah be saved, and Jerusalem shall dwell safely: and this is the name wherewith she shall be called, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.

For thus saith the LORD; David shall never want a man to sit upon the throne of the house of Israel; Neither shall the priests the Levites want a man before me to offer burnt-offerings, and to kindle meat-offerings, and to do sacrifice continually. And the word of the LORD came unto Jeremiah, saying, Thus saith the LORD; If ye can break my covenant of the day, and my covenant of the night, and that there should not be day and night in their season; Then may also my covenant be broken with David my servant, that he should not have a son to reign uipon his throne; and with the Levites the priests,my ministers."

(Jer. 33:24) "Considerest thou not what this people have spoken,saying, The two families which the LORD hath chosen, he hath even cast them off? thus they have despised my people, that they should be no more a nation before them."

Stranger

 

[Taken]

Thought I should post here because the consequences matter to me as well. Nice to find there are people who could come up with a research on this.
The present nation of Israel was formed between 1947 and 1950 and is not the one which was formed by God as given in the Bible. So I wonder how can the present one hold the same significance as the one that was formed during Biblical times?
People are so crazy, specially in a country like ours! I had to discuss with my dad over and over again He even thought the nation had been continuously existing from the Biblical times!
No big deal for me to think of visiting this place either because of Matt 24:2 .
I think there should be awareness created among the Christians about the history of the present nation.

Goes back to Land that was promised to Abraham. That has not yet been fulfilled.

Then there was the Land divided among the 12 Tribes of "ISRAEL" <--- People (ie tribes) and Land.
The People (ISRAEL) could not maintain hold and control of their Land. Oops, they lost their "lands" to others who were not of the Tribes ie (Israel)

There was also Land reserved for 12 princes, who would come forth out of Ismahel's genealogy descending line.

Moving through history, the Lands of (ISRAEL) has been under the authority of numerous (kings, kingdoms, empires, etc.)

The last being the Kingdom of Great Britain;
When a little strip of land was ceded to be called ISRAEL, that Jews claimed and established as their "homeland".

The ceding proclamation had a funky twist in it reqarding Turkey (and I think another nation), regarding Jews residing in Turkey having access to places of Worship, right to go to Jerusalem for pilgrimages, etc. The Turks agreed, but then reneged on the agreement.

Just saying the Last Kingdom that ruled the area of present day Israel (the Nation), ceded that land to the People (calling themselves Jews, as those remaining who had originally been called "ISREAL". )

This is my understanding.

Scripturally; Anyone WHO becomes; Saved and Born again, become ISREAL (ie Gods People) ..and by promise become; a child of Abraham; thus they are entitled to occupy the LAND promised to Abraham (because the Land promised to Abraham, was also promised as an inheritance TO Abrahams descendants.)

And there is a caveat to that; Being...
There are many, many descendants of Abraham; (stock, sperm, descendants)..

But is is ONLY, the descendants of Abraham;
WHO are descendants BY PROMISE, who shall have title to inherent Abrahams Promised Land.

IOW - (stock/sperm) descendant, or Gentile;
Either MUST be "born of the Seed of God"
(Ie born again), to actually BE one who can inherit Abraham's Land.

Abrahm's Land Promise Included the city of Jerusalem. It is in Jerusalem, God established an Everlasting Throne. It's not a Big Chair, but rather a Position of Authority.
King David was the first to "occupy" that position. And Jesus will be the Last to "occupy" that position; as King of His earthly Kingdom....which Yep...it is the same LAND(S), that God promised to Abraham.

And Jesus Himself fulfilled the law.
Jesus Himself, "took upon Himself, the seed of Abraham. Meaning Jesus was revealed to the world, as the Son of man, (Abraham), making Himself IN Abraham's genealogy line...

Which according to Jewish Law, ONLY, a "Jew", ie a man from the blood-line of Abraham, Issac, Jacob, David...is authorized by Law to be seated IN the Throne of David.

Further fulfilling the Law, ONLY the Lord God Himself, can RULE over Jerusalem...

Jesus IS Both; the Son of man and the Christ, God who appeared in the flesh.

All of this has already been prepared; and established; for WHEN Jesus returns to manifest (show) His Kingdom, that men CAN SEE.

In the meantime- the people calling themselves Jews, continue to occupy, and try to hold on to the little sliver of land recognized Worldly, as a Nation, called Isreal.

The history is more indepth, and this is just a brief as I understand it.

According to God, ISREAL are His People, and it all hinges on WHO believes in Him and His Word......NOT LAND, and NOT Jew or Gentile.

The LAND, is the geographical area promised to Abraham and his descendants.

The LAND, "will" be called Christ's Kingdom.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[jaybird]

Since the 17th century, English Bibles have the words ‘Jew’ and ‘Jews’ inserted into them. The word ‘Jew’ occurs about 30 times and ‘Jews’ over 240 times depending on the version. These words represent those that lived in Judea and/or those that were Judahites from the tribe of Judah; one of the 12 tribes of Israel.

Are these English transliterated words appropriate and accurate today?

Are these words applicable to those called a Jew today?

Do these words cause confusion today?

Something to consider:

A symbol conceived, simultaneously has an attached meaning. If this symbol becomes detached from its original meaning, and reattaches itself to another new or secondary meaning, the symbol becomes corrupt and therefore is discarded or restored to its original meaning.

I would like to hear your opinion.

So what say you?

Bless you,


APAK

if i remember John is the only gospel that calls the Jewish priest leaders "the Jews" the other gospels make it pretty clear that Jesus is battling with specific Jewish groups.
i never liked the term because its very misleading, Jesus, the 12, John the baptist, and the crowds that followed Jesus everywhere were Jewish, it makes no sense at all to say "the Jews" were against Jesus.
i personally believe this was added later. we know Jews were following Jesus everywhere, they loved Him, then just a few hundred years later, after rome merges with the faith, Jews all of a sudden become the enemy. something does not add up.