Tongues and Related Issues

[VictoryinJesus]

I am simply asking for you guys to address what Christ said, what Christ described. Christ said He had to leave before the Holy Spirit could come. He also said that He would come again. So do you think Christ's return will only be that you will feel His love, an indescribable feeling. The problem is when you try to give klondike explanations to explain away the scriptures, it hurts the meaning of other scriptures. What Christ said was clear enough.

I don’t know...with the baptism of tongues you experienced...did this happen? If not, Why the experience without the follow through of action? Acts 4:31-33 And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness. [32] And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common. [33] And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all.

Acts 5:38-42
[38] And now I say unto you, Refrain from these men, and let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought: [39] But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God. [40] And to him they agreed: and when they had called the apostles, and beaten them, they commanded that they should not speak in the name of Jesus, and let them go. [41] And they departed from the presence of the council, rejoicing that they were counted worthy to suffer shame for his name. [42] And daily in the temple, and in every house, they ceased not to teach and preach Jesus Christ.

Yet we are here nick-picking over is it a man’s right to have his own prayer language? His very own tongue? Seems like a lot of talk and claiming without the action... “they were of One heart...one soul...that none of the things which he possessed was his own...they had all things in common.”

Ezekiel 11:19-20
[19] And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh: [20] That they may walk in my statutes, and keep mine ordinances, and do them: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God.

Zephaniah 3:9
[9] For then will I turn to the people a pure language, that they may all call upon the name of the Lord, to serve him with one consent.

“A pure language” (IMO) is the language of the Spirit of God ...uncorrupted of natural man. Bonded together in charity and love: one heart, one mind(the mind of Christ), one consent...” that none of the things possessed is his own...but they have all things in common. Why would God confound even the language of the Spirit of God where every man has, his own, with very little in common? He has already did that to keep man from building the Tower of Babel. Within His Spirit ...there is neither Greek nor Jew nor male nor female ...but all things in common which IS Christ.

I know you are going to be disappointed but, unless I missed it, those claiming the baptism of tongues are not all making a bold move forward to have all things in common...it is the opposite in to each man has his own experiences and unique prayer language and own tongue. Seems the real gift of tongues was to unite people and bring them to a commonality; in they could understand what was spoken in their native tongue and believe.

 

[Grailhunter]

I don’t know...with the baptism of tongues you experienced...did this happen? If not, Why the experience without the follow through of action? Acts 4:31-33 And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness. [32] And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common. [33] And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all.

Acts 5:38-42
[38] And now I say unto you, Refrain from these men, and let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought: [39] But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God. [40] And to him they agreed: and when they had called the apostles, and beaten them, they commanded that they should not speak in the name of Jesus, and let them go. [41] And they departed from the presence of the council, rejoicing that they were counted worthy to suffer shame for his name. [42] And daily in the temple, and in every house, they ceased not to teach and preach Jesus Christ.

Yet we are here nick-picking over is it a man’s right to have his own prayer language? His very own tongue? Seems like a lot of talk and claiming without the action... “they were of One heart...one soul...that none of the things which he possessed was his own...they had all things in common.”

Ezekiel 11:19-20
[19] And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh: [20] That they may walk in my statutes, and keep mine ordinances, and do them: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God.

Zephaniah 3:9
[9] For then will I turn to the people a pure language, that they may all call upon the name of the Lord, to serve him with one consent.

“A pure language” (IMO) is the language of the Spirit of God ...uncorrupted of natural man. Bonded together in charity and love: one heart, one mind(the mind of Christ), one consent...” that none of the things possessed is his own...but they have all things in common. Why would God confound even the language of the Spirit of God where every man has, his own, with very little in common? He has already did that to keep man from building the Tower of Babel. Within His Spirit ...there is neither Greek nor Jew nor male nor female ...but all things in common which IS Christ.

I know you are going to be disappointed but, unless I missed it, those claiming the baptism of tongues are not all making a bold move forward to have all things in common...it is the opposite in to each man has his own experiences and unique prayer language and own tongue. Seems the real gift of tongues was to unite people and bring them to a commonality; in they could understand what was spoken in their native tongue and believe.

If you think that tongues are a bunch of lies just say so. But you still have not gotten together enough to answer the questions. What did Christ mean when He said that the Holy Spirit would come? That the Holy Spirit would guide us and teach us the truth? How does the Holy Spirit do this? In your own words..

 

[Waiting on him]

If you think that tongues are a bunch of lies just say so. But you still have not gotten together enough to answer the questions. What did Christ mean when He said that the Holy Spirit would come? That the Holy Spirit would guide us and teach us the truth? How does the Holy Spirit do this? In your own words..

Hebrews 4:12 KJV
[12] For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
He does it within each individual, by severing us from our own spirit.

Tecarta Bible

 

[VictoryinJesus]

If you think that tongues are a bunch of lies just say so. But you still have not gotten together enough to answer the questions. What did Christ mean when He said that the Holy Spirit would come? That the Holy Spirit would guide us and teach us the truth? How does the Holy Spirit do this? In your own words..

What do you think the truth is? In your own words?

 

[Grailhunter]

Hebrews 4:12 KJV
[12] For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
He does it within each individual, by severing us from our own spirit.

Tecarta Bible

I want you to say in your own words. Now if I put you on the spot. We can talk about it later.

 

[Waiting on him]

What did Christ mean when He said that the Holy Spirit would come?

In my own words, Christ was implying this is an event that hasn’t taken place yet, but will happen.

 

[Waiting on him]

Hebrews 4:12 KJV
[12] For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

In my own words He the Holy Spirit tells us what God has to say to us.
Tecarta BibleHe

 

[Waiting on him]

That the Holy Spirit would guide us and teach us the truth? How does the Holy Spirit do this? In your own words..

He the Holy Spirit communicates to us what God has to say to us

 

[Grailhunter]

What do you think the truth is? In your own words?

That is easy. As a whole I believe what Paul said is true and what Christ said is true. But in my own words, the Holy Spirit interact with us in different ways. Some of these ways are Gifts and some of these ways are blessings. The idea that the Trinity just retired after the close of Bible just does not make any sense at all. Are they just looking at us? I believe that the Holy Spirit comes to us as a guide and a teacher, and you should look up the Greek word helper (or comforter in the kjv.) I don't believe anyone gagged the Trinity. What sense would it be that the Trinity would be shutdown for 2000 years. So yes I believe that the Holy Spirit can do all those things and the funny things is, you do not have to be the one speaking, all you have to be is in a church when He is really moving, that would be the end of the argument for you.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

If you think that tongues are a bunch of lies just say so. But you still have not gotten together enough to answer the questions. What did Christ mean when He said that the Holy Spirit would come? That the Holy Spirit would guide us and teach us the truth? How does the Holy Spirit do this? In your own words..

I want to answer but you have lost me. You seem to already know where you want it to go...obviously I’m not following your lead. The Holy Spirit reveals the Son.

 

[Grailhunter]

In my own words, Christ was implying this is an event that hasn’t taken place yet, but will happen.

So Paul was speaking of something that would happen in the future?

 

[Grailhunter]

I want to answer but you have lost me. You seem to already know where you want it to go...obviously I’m not following your lead. The Holy Spirit reveals the Son.

You know forums are a lot like texting.....darn that auto correct...stuff like that. At the end of John..at the Last Supper Christ speaks of the Holy Spirit that will come. Read that and tell me how you think the Holy Spirit is going to do all those things. Is that better or did I mess it more?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

That is easy. As a whole I believe what Paul said is true and what Christ said is true. But in my own words, the Holy Spirit interact with us in different ways. Some of these ways are Gifts and some of these ways are blessings. The idea that the Trinity just retired after the close of Bible just does not make any sense at all. Are they just looking at us? I believe that the Holy Spirit comes to us as a guide and a teacher, and you should look up the Greek word helper (or comforter in the kjv.) I don't believe anyone gagged the Trinity. What sense would it be that the Trinity would be shutdown for 2000 years. So yes I believe that the Holy Spirit can do all those things and the funny things is, you do not have to be the one speaking, all you have to be is in a church when He is really moving, that would be the end of the argument for you.

Agree no one has put a gag on the Holy Spirit. You seem convinced. I hope you are right as I would love His Spirit to prosper. I’m against Him moving over His body. It is what I want.

 

[Grailhunter]

@Waiting on him @VictoryinJesus
This is not a hard thing. A lot was said in this thread....if you never experienced it, it is hard to understand or even believe. If you had, you would never question it. And if you do not believe, that is ok with me, but read the verse on the unpardonable sin carefully before you call the work of the Holy Spirit evil. Common sense, even if there is an outside chance, I caution against it. It came straight from Christ's mouth. The Holy Spirit is not well understood, so be careful. Do you think the Apostles understood what Christ was telling them?

 

[Grailhunter]

Agree no one has put a gag on the Holy Spirit. You seem convinced. I hope you are right as I would love His Spirit to prosper. I’m against Him moving over His body. It is what I want.

Another point is that, if you do not believe in tongues, no harm, no foul....Anyone that understands this and is honest, never says or implies that it is a requirement for salvation. That is where some of the false teachings occurs, that would be Gnostic. Salvation is through and only through Christ. Tongues are icing on the cake.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

@Waiting on him @VictoryinJesus
This is not a hard thing. A lot was said in this thread....if you never experienced it, it is hard to understand or even believe. If you had, you would never question it. And if you do not believe, that is ok with me, but read the verse on the unpardonable sin carefully before you call the work of the Holy Spirit evil. Common sense, even if there is an outside chance, I caution against it. It came straight from Christ's mouth. The Holy Spirit is not well understood, so be careful. Do you think the Apostles understood what Christ was telling them?

Refusing the tongues represented in the churches today is not refusing the Holy Spirit. Blasphemy (IMO) is taking the Lord’s name in vain and attributing to flesh. Vain, unprofitable, void. God tested them in the wilderness in that He would not allow them in His land, nor to be before those who do not know Him making a mockery of Him ...but will pray over it.

 

[Grailhunter]

Refusing the tongues represented in the churches today is not refusing the Holy Spirit. Blasphemy (IMO) is taking the Lord’s name in vain and attributing to flesh. Vain, unprofitable, void. God tested them in the wilderness in that He would not allow them in His land, nor to be before those who do not know Him making a mockery of Him ...but will pray over it.

Again, Christ said the Holy Spirit would come, Paul also spoke of tongues in the scriptures, nothing to do with vain, unprofitable, void, or blasphemy.

 

[Waiting on him]

So Paul was speaking of something that would happen in the future?

Nope, the question was what did Jesus mean

 

[Grailhunter]

Nope, the question was what did Jesus mean

you can read what Jesus meant and just a couple posts back I put it in my own words

 

[Waiting on him]

you can read what Jesus meant and just a couple posts back I put it in my own words

Thanks