Tongues and Related Issues

[Davy]

The TRUE CLOVEN TONGUE of Pentecost per Acts 2 went out as KNOWN LANGUAGES OF THE WORLD. Everyone present heard and understood in their very dialect of where they were born.

In the Greek NT manuscripts, there is an alternation between the Greek words glossa which means language, and dialektos which means dialect of a language. That is what the crowd heard.

A dialect means the slang of the language you were born into. If you're from the northern U.S. you'd hear 'you's guys'. If from the southern U.S.A. you'd hear, 'you all'. That is what the people on Pentecost heard the Apostle's speak. It was highly accurate. God knows how we speak and hear.

The true cloven tongue is not a gibberish tongue. It is the one language which all peoples once spoke prior to the tower of Babel. God confused the one language, and divided the nations, scattering them to the four corners of the earth. That one language is to return to all one day (Zeph.3).

In 1 Corinthians 14, in the KJV, the phrase "unknown tongue" is a mis-translation. The actual Greek word there is glossa, which means a known language of the world. There is no such thing as an 'unknown' tongue written of in God's Word. You're reading a translation error with that added word 'unknown'.

Why is it important to understand how the cloven tongue of Pentecost is not an unknown tongue? -

It's because the cloven tongue went out as KNOWN languages of the world, and was understood by everyone present.

Those pushing the 'unknown' idea do that in order to support a gibberish tongue that no one can understand. And they hope that someone will be present to interpret for them. Paul was actually speaking about others who might know the language of the world being spoken that might be able to interpret for the Church. He wasn't speaking of some gibberish tongue.

Now if you go to a foreign country, and they don't speak your language, then it will sound like gibberish if you don't know their language. But if the cloven tongue is spoken there, then even you will hear them speak in your OWN LANGUAGE OF BIRTH. And that is the sign of the true cloven tongue.

 

[Waiting on him]

The TRUE CLOVEN TONGUE of Pentecost per Acts 2 went out as KNOWN LANGUAGES OF THE WORLD. Everyone present heard and understood in their very dialect of where they were born.

In the Greek NT manuscripts, there is an alternation between the Greek words glossa which means language, and dialektos which means dialect of a language. That is what the crowd heard.

A dialect means the slang of the language you were born into. If you're from the northern U.S. you'd hear 'you's guys'. If from the southern U.S.A. you'd hear, 'you all'. That is what the people on Pentecost heard the Apostle's speak. It was highly accurate. God knows how we speak and hear.

The true cloven tongue is not a gibberish tongue. It is the one language which all peoples once spoke prior to the tower of Babel. God confused the one language, and divided the nations, scattering them to the four corners of the earth. That one language is to return to all one day (Zeph.3).

I’m from the south, I hear yall

 

[Davy]

And another thing, The Holy Spirit will NEVER, EVER, GO AGAINST GOD'S HOLY WRIT.

So that is how you check out someone who claims to be speaking by The Holy Spirit. That is, if you know your Scripture. If someone claims to speak by The Spirit, and you know what they say goes directly against Scripture, then run, get away from that person as fast as you can, because they are speaking by another spirit that is not of God.

 

[Deborah_]

The TRUE CLOVEN TONGUE of Pentecost per Acts 2 went out as KNOWN LANGUAGES OF THE WORLD. Everyone present heard and understood in their very dialect of where they were born.

In the Greek NT manuscripts, there is an alternation between the Greek words glossa which means language, and dialektos which means dialect of a language. That is what the crowd heard.

A dialect means the slang of the language you were born into. If you're from the northern U.S. you'd hear 'you's guys'. If from the southern U.S.A. you'd hear, 'you all'. That is what the people on Pentecost heard the Apostle's speak. It was highly accurate. God knows how we speak and hear.

The true cloven tongue is not a gibberish tongue. It is the one language which all peoples once spoke prior to the tower of Babel. God confused the one language, and divided the nations, scattering them to the four corners of the earth. That one language is to return to all one day (Zeph.3).

In 1 Corinthians 14, in the KJV, the phrase "unknown tongue" is a mis-translation. The actual Greek word there is glossa, which means a known language of the world. There is no such thing as an 'unknown' tongue written of in God's Word. You're reading a translation error with that added word 'unknown'.

Why is it important to understand how the cloven tongue of Pentecost is not an unknown tongue? -

It's because the cloven tongue went out as KNOWN languages of the world, and was understood by everyone present.

Those pushing the 'unknown' idea do that in order to support a gibberish tongue that no one can understand. And they hope that someone will be present to interpret for them. Paul was actually speaking about others who might know the language of the world being spoken that might be able to interpret for the Church. He wasn't speaking of some gibberish tongue.

Now if you go to a foreign country, and they don't speak your language, then it will sound like gibberish if you don't know their language. But if the cloven tongue is spoken there, then even you will hear them speak in your OWN LANGUAGE OF BIRTH. And that is the sign of the true cloven tongue.

Unfortunately this isn't quite as neat as you make out.
The word "dialect" today, in English, means a variant of a language. But in Greek, 'dialektos' is less specific - it means "the language of a nation or region". In Acts 22, the Hebrew language is described as "the Hebrew dialektos", although it's a language and not a dialect.

Similarly, 'glossa' can mean the tongue in your mouth, or the language that you speak. In Acts 2, the words 'dialektos' and 'glossa' are both used to describe what the crowd heard.

You rightly point out that the word "unknown" isn't in the Greek of I Corinthians 12. It's an explanation added by the translator. But where does the word "cloven" come from? Isn't that a word that you've added? And it's an odd word to use, given that the similar expression "forked tongue" usually means deception. Surely to call it a "cloven tongue" is just as much a translation 'error' as to call it an "unknown tongue"?

The Greek just says "languages" - leaving it open as to whether they were known or unknown, understood or not understood. This ambiguity should not be done away with. After all, any language I might speak in (and I know several) will only be recognised and understood if there is someone else present who can speak it.

 

[Grailhunter]

The TRUE CLOVEN TONGUE of Pentecost per Acts 2 went out as KNOWN LANGUAGES OF THE WORLD. Everyone present heard and understood in their very dialect of where they were born.

In the Greek NT manuscripts, there is an alternation between the Greek words glossa which means language, and dialektos which means dialect of a language. That is what the crowd heard.

A dialect means the slang of the language you were born into. If you're from the northern U.S. you'd hear 'you's guys'. If from the southern U.S.A. you'd hear, 'you all'. That is what the people on Pentecost heard the Apostle's speak. It was highly accurate. God knows how we speak and hear.

The true cloven tongue is not a gibberish tongue. It is the one language which all peoples once spoke prior to the tower of Babel. God confused the one language, and divided the nations, scattering them to the four corners of the earth. That one language is to return to all one day (Zeph.3).

In 1 Corinthians 14, in the KJV, the phrase "unknown tongue" is a mis-translation. The actual Greek word there is glossa, which means a known language of the world. There is no such thing as an 'unknown' tongue written of in God's Word. You're reading a translation error with that added word 'unknown'.

Why is it important to understand how the cloven tongue of Pentecost is not an unknown tongue? -

It's because the cloven tongue went out as KNOWN languages of the world, and was understood by everyone present.

Those pushing the 'unknown' idea do that in order to support a gibberish tongue that no one can understand. And they hope that someone will be present to interpret for them. Paul was actually speaking about others who might know the language of the world being spoken that might be able to interpret for the Church. He wasn't speaking of some gibberish tongue.

Now if you go to a foreign country, and they don't speak your language, then it will sound like gibberish if you don't know their language. But if the cloven tongue is spoken there, then even you will hear them speak in your OWN LANGUAGE OF BIRTH. And that is the sign of the true cloven tongue.

I think that most people here are aware of the fact that Pentecost was a tongue of nationalization, each heard in their own
language, but still a communication from the Holy Spirit. Speaking in tongues is always associated with the Holy Spirit. This is why I warn people, it is one thing to not believe in speaking in tongues, another not to understand, and another to condemn... evil, Satan, stuff like that. Christ knew that the Holy Spirit would come and have a ministry, the details are sketchy, but the warning is clear, not forgiven in this age or the age to come. It is one of the few scenarios that your tongue can send you to hell. People say anything and think there is no ramification, this one might get'cha. Just be sure. On the other hand the Bible speaks of tongues so it is not without endorsement.
1st Corinthians 12:4-10 Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit. And there are varieties of ministries, and the same Lord. There are varieties of effects, but the same God who works all things in all persons. But to each one is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good. For to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, and to another the word of knowledge according to the same Spirit; to another faith by the same Spirit, and to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit, and to another the effecting of miracles, and to another prophecy, and to another the distinguishing of spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, and to another the interpretation of tongues.

 

[Davy]

Unfortunately this isn't quite as neat as you make out.
The word "dialect" today, in English, means a variant of a language. But in Greek, 'dialektos' is less specific - it means "the language of a nation or region".

Is there are a valid reason for you bearing false witness against me?

What do you think I was talking about when I showed how dialektos is about the slang of a known language, with the difference between someone born in the northern U.S. vs. the southern U.S.A.? Read my post again before you go bearing false witnesses.

As for what I showed with the alternations of the words glossa and dialektos in Acts 2, one only need to follow those Greek words in the manuscript.

I'm also surprised by your false personal attack against me about the word "cloven" in the KJV, saying I added that!!! Can't you read the KJV, or is doing that against your religion???

Acts 2:3
3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
KJV

Did you notice that says the KJV Bible version???? Can you read??!!

The Greek Word in the NT Text:
NT:1266
diamerizo (dee-am-er-id'-zo); from NT:1223 and NT:3307; to partition thoroughly (literally in distribution, figuratively in dissension):

KJV - cloven, divide, part.
(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright (c) 1994, Biblesoft and International Bible Translators, Inc.)

Since you're obviously an ignorant amateur who likes to pose as a scholar here, the KJV translators used the word 'cloven' for that Greek word diamerizo, which means to partition or divide. That's what the English word cloven means. And that section there next to "KJV - cloven, divide, part", is to show how Greek diamerizo was translated to English in the KJV Bible version!

 

[Grailhunter]

Is there are a valid reason for you bearing false witness against me?

What do you think I was talking about when I showed how dialektos is about the slang of a known language, with the difference between someone born in the northern U.S. vs. the southern U.S.A.? Read my post again before you go bearing false witnesses.

As for what I showed with the alternations of the words glossa and dialektos in Acts 2, one only need to follow those Greek words in the manuscript.

I'm also surprised by your false personal attack against me about the word "cloven" in the KJV, saying I added that!!! Can't you read the KJV, or is doing that against your religion???

Acts 2:3
3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
KJV

Did you notice that says the KJV Bible version???? Can you read??!!

The Greek Word in the NT Text:
NT:1266
diamerizo (dee-am-er-id'-zo); from NT:1223 and NT:3307; to partition thoroughly (literally in distribution, figuratively in dissension):

KJV - cloven, divide, part.
(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright (c) 1994, Biblesoft and International Bible Translators, Inc.)

Since you're obviously an ignorant amateur who likes to pose as a scholar here, the KJV translators used the word 'cloven' for that Greek word diamerizo, which means to partition or divide. That's what the English word cloven means. And that section there next to "KJV - cloven, divide, part", is to show how Greek diamerizo was translated to English in the KJV Bible version!

Davy Davy Davy....Since you're obviously an ignorant amateur....your words...is that your God speaking through you, did your parents not teach you any manners?

 

[Deborah_]

Is there are a valid reason for you bearing false witness against me?

What do you think I was talking about when I showed how dialektos is about the slang of a known language, with the difference between someone born in the northern U.S. vs. the southern U.S.A.? Read my post again before you go bearing false witnesses.

What on earth are you so upset about? Read my post more carefully - I agreed that is the modern English meaning of 'dialect'.

I'm also surprised by your false personal attack against me about the word "cloven" in the KJV, saying I added that!!! Can't you read the KJV, or is doing that against your religion???

Acts 2:3
3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
KJV

You didn't quote any verse in your post, from any version. Perhaps not wise to assume that everyone uses the KJV. It's not that I can't or won't read it, I just don't. And anyway, I thought you were talking about the spoken tongues, the languages that were heard - not the 'tongues of fire' that were seen.

Since you're obviously an ignorant amateur who likes to pose as a scholar here, the KJV translators used the word 'cloven' for that Greek word diamerizo, which means to partition or divide. That's what the English word cloven means.

All plain enough if I'd realised you were referring to the fire. But you did seem to be talking about the languages. Are you therefore saying that the Pentecost languages were a divided tongue? Does that make sense?

 

[Davy]

I think that most people here are aware of the fact that Pentecost was a tongue of nationalization, each heard in their own
language, but still a communication from the Holy Spirit. Speaking in tongues is always associated with the Holy Spirit. This is why I warn people, it is one thing to not believe in speaking in tongues, another not to understand, and another to condemn... evil, Satan, stuff like that. Christ knew that the Holy Spirit would come and have a ministry, the details are sketchy, but the warning is clear, not forgiven in this age or the age to come. It is one of the few scenarios that your tongue can send you to hell. People say anything and think there is no ramification, this one might get'cha. Just be sure. On the other hand the Bible speaks of tongues so it is not without endorsement.

That is more of your own personal belief, and not from actual written Scripture of God's Word. Acts 2 reveals what was spoken on Pentecost, and what was heard by everyone present. End of story. A gibberish tongue is easy to distinguish from the real cloven tongue of Pentecost. Make a stand for Christ or be deceived by spirits.

1st Corinthians 12:4-10 Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit. And there are varieties of ministries, and the same Lord. There are varieties of effects, but the same God who works all things in all persons. But to each one is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good. For to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, and to another the word of knowledge according to the same Spirit; to another faith by the same Spirit, and to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit, and to another the effecting of miracles, and to another prophecy, and to another the distinguishing of spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, and to another the interpretation of tongues.

1 Cor.14 does not teach about any "unknown" tongue, since the word "unknown" was added by the KJV translators. The word in the Greek is glossa, and it means known languages of the world.

At the very first of the subject in 1 Cor.12, Apostle Paul sets the stage for the idea of tongues that he's talking about...

1 Cor 12:28-30
28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.

29 Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?

30 Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?
KJV

The Greek word for "diversities" in verse 28 is 'genos', and means 'diversity, kind, kin'. It's about KNOWN LANGUAGES OF THE WORLD. And that's what the Greek word following it ("of tongues") means; Greek glossa = languages.

Thus Paul's subject from the very start... is about KNOWN LANGUAGES, not some gibberish tongue.

 

[Waiting on him]

Maybe Davy is of the opinion that the word of God comes out from him only?

 

[Davy]

Davy Davy Davy....Since you're obviously an ignorant amateur....your words...is that your God speaking through you, did your parent not teach you any manners?

In time God will deal with all mockers that teach against His Holy Writ. There are many ignorant amateurs here on this forum who act like they know God's Word when they do not. They easily reveal themselves when they personally mock people with claiming they made a translation in the KJV Bible that the Translators did!! How utterly ignorant and insulting for someone to do that.

 

[Davy]

Maybe Davy is of the opinion that the word of God comes out from him only?

May GOD rebuke you, in the Name of Jesus Christ.

 

[Davy]

This is the kind of stuff Christ's Apostles warned us about for the very end, and how many would be seduced by spirits...

 

[Waiting on him]

May GOD rebuke you, in the Name of Jesus Christ.

Your the authority, why not rebuke in your own name?

 

[farouk]

I’m from the south, I hear yall

I would never have known...

 

[Davy]

What on earth are you so upset about? Read my post more carefully - I agreed that is the modern English meaning of 'dialect'.


You didn't quote any verse in your post, from any version. Perhaps not wise to assume that everyone uses the KJV. It's not that I can't or won't read it, I just don't. And anyway, I thought you were talking about the spoken tongues, the languages that were heard - not the 'tongues of fire' that were seen.

All plain enough if I'd realised you were referring to the fire. But you did seem to be talking about the languages. Are you therefore saying that the Pentecost languages were a divided tongue? Does that make sense?

Your post 244 was full of nothing but your own ambiguity against the Scripture involving what was spoken on Pentecost per Acts 2. You're obviously not familiar with Holy Spirit markings via subject alternation in the NT texts.

And to be ignorant of the KJV word "cloven" in Acts 2 with wrongly assigning that to me as adding it reveals your lack of scholarship and lack of general Bible study. So how else should I react? Give you a gold star for failure? No, I don't come from an era that rewards those who bear false witness, but I do forgive easily, once the sinner asks. But oh yeah, that appears to be a particular problem with many on this Forum, they don't believe in asking forgiveness of a sin, since they don't believe they sin anymore.

 

[Davy]

I would never have known...

I'm from the South, and... I'm ex-military, Vietnam era.

And like we say in the South, "I was born an American, but a Southerner by the grace of God."

 

[farouk]

What on earth are you so upset about? Read my post more carefully - I agreed that is the modern English meaning of 'dialect'.


You didn't quote any verse in your post, from any version. Perhaps not wise to assume that everyone uses the KJV. It's not that I can't or won't read it, I just don't. And anyway, I thought you were talking about the spoken tongues, the languages that were heard - not the 'tongues of fire' that were seen.

All plain enough if I'd realised you were referring to the fire. But you did seem to be talking about the languages. Are you therefore saying that the Pentecost languages were a divided tongue? Does that make sense?

I myself do love and use the King James, anyway...

 

[Grailhunter]

That is more of your own personal belief, and not from actual written Scripture of God's Word. Acts 2 reveals what was spoken on Pentecost, and what was heard by everyone present. End of story. A gibberish tongue is easy to distinguish from the real cloven tongue of Pentecost. Make a stand for Christ or be deceived by spirits.




1 Cor.14 does not teach about any "unknown" tongue, since the word "unknown" was added by the KJV translators. The word in the Greek is glossa, and it means known languages of the world.

At the very first of the subject in 1 Cor.12, Apostle Paul sets the stage for the idea of tongues that he's talking about...

1 Cor 12:28-30
28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.

29 Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?

30 Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?
KJV

The Greek word for "diversities" in verse 28 is 'genos', and means 'diversity, kind, kin'. It's about KNOWN LANGUAGES OF THE WORLD. And that's what the Greek word following it ("of tongues") means; Greek glossa = languages.

Thus Paul's subject from the very start... is about KNOWN LANGUAGES, not some gibberish tongue.

Again the scriptures address the fact that speaking in tongues and interpreting tongues were occurring, and Paul addressed it. As far as Pentecost and the Holy Spirit, that is only the opinion of the scriptures. lets see....
1st Corinthians 12:1-11 NIV
Now about spiritual gifts, brothers, I do not want you to be ignorant. You know that when you were pagans, somehow or other you were influenced and led astray to mute idols. Therefore I tell you that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, "Jesus be cursed," and no one can say, "Jesus is Lord," except by the Holy Spirit. There are different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit. There are different kinds of service, but the same Lord. There are different kinds of working, but the same God works all of them in all men. Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good.To one there is given through the Spirit the message of wisdom, to another the message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues, and to still another the interpretation of tongues. All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he gives them to each one, just as he determines.

1st Corinthians 12:1-11 NASB
Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware. You know that when you were pagans, you were led astray to the mute idols, however you were led. Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus is accursed”; and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit. Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit. And there are varieties of ministries, and the same Lord. There are varieties of effects, but the same God who works all things in all persons. But to each one is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good. For to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, and to another the word of knowledge according to the same Spirit; to another faith by the same Spirit, and to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit, and to another the effecting of miracles, and to another prophecy, and to another the distinguishing of spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, and to another the interpretation of tongues. But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each on individually just as He wills.


1 Corinthians 12:1-10 King James Version (KJV)
Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant. Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto these dumb idols, even as ye were led. Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost. Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord. And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all. But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal. For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues: But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

They are all referring to the same thing…tongues spoken…tongues interpreted. I do not have to rebuke you, you may have already damned yourself…that is between you and Christ.

 

[Waiting on him]

Your post 244 was full of nothing but your own ambiguity against the Scripture involving what was spoken on Pentecost per Acts 2. You're obviously not familiar with Holy Spirit markings via subject alternation in the NT texts.

And to be ignorant of the KJV word "cloven" in Acts 2 with wrongly assigning that to me as adding it reveals your lack of scholarship and lack of general Bible study. So how else should I react? Give you a gold star for failure? No, I don't come from an era that rewards those who bear false witness, but I do forgive easily, once the sinner asks. But oh yeah, that appears to be a particular problem with many on this Forum, they don't believe in asking forgiveness of a sin, since they don't believe they sin anymore.

Are you asking her to repent to you of a sin, or for acknowledgment of your infallibility?