Tongues

[Waiting on him]

I don't believe God wrote the Bible for cultural reasons, that is one book for a certain nation and another book yet for another nation. Rather, the Bible was written for mankind in all parts of history as written by Paul in Romans 15:4:

"For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope."

As long as Christians do not understand the meaning and purpose of tongues, I'm afraid tongues will NEVER be understood!

For instance, the word "mysteries" in 1 Co. 14:2 is really a synonym for the "Gospel." Hence, when a person receives a revelation (heavenly message) from God in a church setting, he would speak in a form of a tongue and someone close by interprets so that the whole congregation can be edified. And Paul continues to say not to forbid speaking in tongues.

The above is the reason and ONLY purpose why tongues was conceivable BECAUSE the Bible was not yet complete and God had further revelations to give to man, until Revelation 22: 18-19.

Ultimately, speaking in tongues has NO spiritual value other than receiving messages from God in a form of a tongue/heavenly language.

To God Be The Glory[

 

[JunChosen]

Your are avoiding Paul's direct words. He clearly says that when he is speaking in tongues he is praying directly to God. You are deliberately misapplying clear Scripture. "There is none so blind who will not see."

No where does the Bible intimate that speaking in tongues is a form of a prayer directly prayed to God!!! You are twisting the word of God to suit your agenda as most Christians do. I'm not a bit surprised.

In fact, Jesus said in Matthew 6:6-9:

6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.
7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen [do]: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.
8 Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.
9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name...

To God Be The Glory

 

[Enoch111]

No where does the Bible intimate that speaking in tongues is a form of a prayer directly prayed to God!!!

That is correct. But this teaching is a misrepresentation of what is shown in 1 Cor 14:2: For he that speaketh in an [unknown] tongue [language] speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

But this is not a reference to prayer, but speaking a foreign language supernaturally without an interpreter within a church meeting, so only God would understand what was said.

The genuine gift of speaking unknown foreign languages supernaturally was a valid gift in the apostolic churches. But it was being abused in Corinth. Therefore Paul stipulated that (1) there must be a interpreter if anyone would speak in tongues, and (2) only 2 or 3 would be allowed to speak. Since the Christians in Corinth would be primarily Greek-speaking (along with Hebrew-speaking Christians) all other languages would need to be interpreted in order to edify the saints. And if there was no interpreter then nothing would be said.

Paul also stipulated that women were to remain silent. At the same time, he ruled that he would rather speak 5 intelligible words of prophecy that 10,000 words in tongues.

 

[Cooper]

That is correct. But this teaching is a misrepresentation of what is shown in 1 Cor 14:2: For he that speaketh in an [unknown] tongue [language] speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

But this is not a reference to prayer, but speaking a foreign language supernaturally without an interpreter within a church meeting, so only God would understand what was said.

The genuine gift of speaking unknown foreign languages supernaturally was a valid gift in the apostolic churches. But it was being abused in Corinth. Therefore Paul stipulated that (1) there must be a interpreter if anyone would speak in tongues, and (2) only 2 or 3 would be allowed to speak. Since the Christians in Corinth would be primarily Greek-speaking (along with Hebrew-speaking Christians) all other languages would need to be interpreted in order to edify the saints. And if there was no interpreter then nothing would be said.

Paul also stipulated that women were to remain silent. At the same time, he ruled that he would rather speak 5 intelligible words of prophecy that 10,000 words in tongues.

This is not an insult to women. The boys had an education, while the girls stayed home and spoke the common language of the marketplace. This put the women at a disadvantage in church, it would be like me going to a place of worship where the service was held in Latin. So the women did what women do the world over, they chatted among themselves, this is why Paul told them politely to remain silent. Then, when home, they could ask their husband. In their turn, mummy could tell the children. Now the language barrier is long gone, there is absolutely no reason why women cannot take a leadership role in the church.
.

 

[Paul Christensen]

No where does the Bible intimate that speaking in tongues is a form of a prayer directly prayed to God!!! You are twisting the word of God to suit your agenda as most Christians do. I'm not a bit surprised.

In fact, Jesus said in Matthew 6:6-9:

6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.
7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen [do]: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.
8 Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.
9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name...

To God Be The Glory

I am totally amazed that you cannot believe Paul when he says that the person who speaks in tongues speaks to God! Speaking to God is prayer!
Although your quote is correct in itself, it does in no way discount praying in tongues. Paul clearly says that where there is no interpreter, a person must speak to himself and to God.

Everything I have said on this thread concerning people having had junk drummed into them over the years causing such prejudice that they just cannot see what is clearly written by Paul, is very true. I really do think that you have a blind spot when it comes to praying in tongues. Even though Paul clearly says that it is prayer (speaking to God is nothing but prayer) you adamantly refuse to believe it.

 

[JunChosen]

But this teaching is a misrepresentation of what is shown in 1 Cor 14:2: For he that speaketh in an [unknown] tongue [language] speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries

Here is the correct rendition of 1 Co. 14:2:

"For he that speaketh in a tongue (heavenly language) speaketh NOT unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh "mysteries" (Gospel).

In the KJV Bible, the printer is warning the English reader that ALL italisize words are not in the original manuscripts, hence the word "unknown" is NOT in the original manuscripts.

But this is not a reference to prayer, but speaking a foreign language supernaturally without an interpreter within a church meeting, so only God would understand what was said.

The genuine gift of speaking unknown foreign languages supernaturally was a valid gift in the apostolic churches. But it was being abused in Corinth.

I wasn't aware nor have I read anywhere that heavenly languages were spoken in apostolic churches! Can you direct me to those passages?

Paul also stipulated that women were to remain silent. At the same time, he ruled that he would rather speak 5 intelligible words of prophecy that 10,000 words in tongues.

Women were to remain silent when men believers are present is a different issue from that of speaking in tongues.

Paul was the only Apostle to be taught personally by Jesus in the wilderness for three years, and that's the reason he would rather speak 5 intelligible words with his understanding, that by his voice he might teach others also, than 10,000 words in unknown tongues.

To God Be The Glory

 

[JunChosen]

I really do think that you have a blind spot when it comes to praying in tongues. Even though Paul clearly says that it is prayer (speaking to God is nothing but prayer) you adamantly refuse to believe it.

It is not that I so adamantly refuse to believe that tongues is a form of a prayer to God (like many believe it is) but not I, rather if we need to pray to God we have the example of Matthew 6:6-9 which teaches how we are to pray intelligibly.

And, if we are to emulate on how we should pray, then we ought to read the whole Book of Psalms.

To God Be The Glory

 

[Enoch111]

I wasn't aware nor have I read anywhere that heavenly languages were spoken in apostolic churches!

Did I say "heavenly languages" or did I say "foreign languages"? Do you understand the difference? The Greek words should simply be translated as "languages" and the implication is foreign languages, not heavenly languages.

 

[Paul Christensen]

It is not that I so adamantly refuse to believe that tongues is a form of a prayer to God (like many believe it is) but not I, rather if we need to pray to God we have the example of Matthew 6:6-9 which teaches how we are to pray intelligibly.

And, if we are to emulate on how we should pray, then we ought to read the whole Book of Psalms.

To God Be The Glory

I think you have been "classically conditioned" (B.F. Skinner behavioral psychology) by your church mentors to believe that modern tongues is not valid. You have witnessed those who have started speaking in tongues thrown out of churches and disowned by those who were close friends and believe that if you went against your conditioning, you would be similarly "punished".

That is how Skinner's behaviorism works. Do the right thing (according to your mentors or the image of God you have in your mind) and you will be rewarded (or blessed), but go against it and you will be punished (thrown out of your church, disowned by your religious friends, or condemned to hell for adopting something false.

It is this same kind of behavioral conditioning that keeps people in churches that have no real meaning for them, so they go through the motions as if they are having to go to the dentist, and when the service is over they breathe a sigh of relief to be able to get home and do the things they enjoy. This can happen equally to church pastors and elders as well as ordinary members.

This is why many children of Christian parents leave the church when they leave the parental home, because church is an obligation they had to endure rather than an enjoyment, because they had to give up doing what would have been fun for them on a Sunday, in order to what they "should" do in order to please their parents and the image of God they have in their minds.

Do you know who Jesus really is?

 

[Robert Gwin]

My record is reliable to me. Each and every morning in my prayer time with God as I get involved in my talks with Him, I always lapse into the prayer language which He gave me for that purpose many years ago. Unreliable? For me it is reliable.

My tongues spoken to God daily for a great many years [first time in 1976] now are not unintelligible to Him. But... that is as it should be as they are to communicate with Him.

When a natural baby begins to make noises with his mouth it is babble which has no meaning and so no one understands. As the child grows some of the babble begins to have meaning for him and for a select few very close ones, like the ones he calls out to with formed baby words: ma ma, da da, which in time become mama and daddy. A baby whose growth is stunted may never move beyond babble to a language in which he is able to intelligently converse with his parents.

Similarly when a baby Christian first speaks in a "new tongue [language]" it may be no more than unintelligible babble. Some new believers get lazy or are told they need do nothing else and they do not. They do not continue to use their new language practicing it by talking with God... and babble it remains. Too many baby Christians sitting in pews regularly who have never grown up even though they have been around for many years. Babies all of their lives!

My wife received a different set of gifts from God. She receives messages in unknown tongues and she interprets messages given in unknown tongues. Unlike me, my wife speaks no other human languages but English and a special unknown language God has given her. She received her gift in the year I did, 1976. Unreliable? I would not say so. Does every part of the Body of Christ know everything about all the other parts working in the functions given to them by God? There is only one Head of the Body of Christ and that is not you nor me, but Jesus!

"And he is the head of the body, the church..." Col 1:18

My record is reliable to me. Each and every morning in my prayer time with God as I get involved in my talks with Him, I always lapse into the prayer language which He gave me for that purpose many years ago. Unreliable? For me it is reliable.

My tongues spoken to God daily for a great many years [first time in 1976] now are not unintelligible to Him. But... that is as it should be as they are to communicate with Him.

When a natural baby begins to make noises with his mouth it is babble which has no meaning and so no one understands. As the child grows some of the babble begins to have meaning for him and for a select few very close ones, like the ones he calls out to with formed baby words: ma ma, da da, which in time become mama and daddy. A baby whose growth is stunted may never move beyond babble to a language in which he is able to intelligently converse with his parents.

Similarly when a baby Christian first speaks in a "new tongue [language]" it may be no more than unintelligible babble. Some new believers get lazy or are told they need do nothing else and they do not. They do not continue to use their new language practicing it by talking with God... and babble it remains. Too many baby Christians sitting in pews regularly who have never grown up even though they have been around for many years. Babies all of their lives!

My wife received a different set of gifts from God. She receives messages in unknown tongues and she interprets messages given in unknown tongues. Unlike me, my wife speaks no other human languages but English and a special unknown language God has given her. She received her gift in the year I did, 1976. Unreliable? I would not say so. Does every part of the Body of Christ know everything about all the other parts working in the functions given to them by God? There is only one Head of the Body of Christ and that is not you nor me, but Jesus!

"And he is the head of the body, the church..." Col 1:18

Thank you very much sir for your input, and I fully understand your line of reasoning, I wish you success in your worship. You appear to be a very kind and honest individual.

 

[Robert Gwin]

Yes. Most people are aware of that.



Well......ask yourself....did Jesus come back yet?
No, He didn't....

We believe Jesus received the crown in 1914, and has been sitting on God's throne since then, fulfilling Mat 24:3, but has not returned 1 2 Thes 1:6-9, but we do believe that is very soon.

 

[Robert Gwin]

I don't believe in "cessation" (or however it's spelt) of any of the "gift/s of the Spirit."
But, have rather come to understand the why people think/believe they have.
It's because of apostasy. The glacierly slow "drifting away" due to the constant and relentless attacks from the enemies of Our Lord and Father, and God, and the tribulations we have gone through over the years, which causes traditions of man, and precepts of men, to create and widen the void of God's Word!
To where we are at present. Whereas, every man doeth that which seemeth good in his own eyes.

Yes sir, that is where all the multitude of faiths came from Acts 2:28-30

 

[amadeus]

I am totally amazed that you cannot believe Paul when he says that the person who speaks in tongues speaks to God! Speaking to God is prayer!
Although your quote is correct in itself, it does in no way discount praying in tongues. Paul clearly says that where there is no interpreter, a person must speak to himself and to God.

Everything I have said on this thread concerning people having had junk drummed into them over the years causing such prejudice that they just cannot see what is clearly written by Paul, is very true. I really do think that you have a blind spot when it comes to praying in tongues. Even though Paul clearly says that it is prayer (speaking to God is nothing but prayer) you adamantly refuse to believe it.

It amazing my friend that any man having seen or heard from God would go against Him but throughout the Bible and in our own personal histories have we not all witnessed it and even partaken of it? Has any of us gone against God since we first believed?

Help us dear Lord!

 

[Triumph1300]

Like everything else, there will always be counterfeit.

I suggest we never toss out the genuine for the sake of a counterfeit.

 

[Triumph1300]

We believe Jesus received the crown in 1914

.

Robert, not wanting to side track this thread.....open a new one for this subject.

 

[Behold]

The confusion regarding "Tongues" is caused by false denominations and heretical teachers who do not understand the difference between :

The Gift of Tongues, one of the 9 spiritual GIFTS, ....and......"a prayer language".

So, the heretics teach that those 2 are the same, or worse, have never realized the difference, and that is why most believers are so confused by them.

Believers become confused, most of the time, by believing something that is taught to them by someone they BELIEVE, and this person, is Theologically upside down.
So, the believer becomes the same.

 

[Triumph1300]

Believers become confused, most of the time, by believing something that is taught to them by someone they BELIEVE, and this person, is Theologically upside down.
So, the believer becomes the same.

Yes, correct.

Preferring to listen to a person and lack of Bible study.....

 

[Robert Gwin]

.

Robert, not wanting to side track this thread.....open a new one for this subject.

No need to sir, any questions you have about it can be answered right here.

 

[Triumph1300]

No need to sir, any questions you have about it can be answered right here.

This thread is about "tongues".
Not about Jesus receiving a crown in 1914.

 

[amadeus]

No need to sir, any questions you have about it can be answered right here.

You should try to follow the lead of the one who wrote the OP on the thread. These threads get too complicated sometimes in any case. This thread was started by @Triumph1300