Tongues

[amadeus]

Luke 8:10 KJV
[10] And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.
I believe what Paul is trying to say here is when he is speaking in tongues it’s actually the mysteries of God. He’s not referring to unintelligible words, rather words that edify.

Could it not be that God uses "speaking in tongues" as you say and in other ways as well? Is God limited in this? Do we not want to understand God rather than to limit Him?

"to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues." I Cor 12:10

What does different kinds of tongues mean?

It could mean what you indicate but it could other things as well. Should we discount all testimonies of others which do not agree with our experiences or beliefs?

"And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible." Mark 10:27

 

[Waiting on him]

Could it not be that God uses "speaking in tongues" as you say and in other ways as well? Is God limited in this? Do we not want to understand God

rather than to limit Him?

"to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues." I Cor 12:10

What does different kinds of tongues mean?

It could mean what you indicate but it could other things as well. Should we discount all testimonies of others which do not agree with our experiences or beliefs?

"And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible." Mark 10:27

Sure, we can consider all possibilities, but I’m typically cautious when self edification is involved.

 

[amadeus]

Lol, when Paul would speak to a Christian and they would hear the mysteries of God what or who within them do you think was interpreting within them. Take another look.
Peter suggested some of the things Paul said would be hard to understand.

Some of the things others on this forum write are difficult or impossible for me to understand. Does that mean that only I am right and they are wrong? I think not. God uses people for His purposes in His timeframe. The message given is not always for everyone. Sometimes it may be for only one person. Is that one person listening and understanding? God knows!

Peter was a man as we are men. Peter had the Holy Ghost within as some of us do. Did Peter always understand every message that God gave to every person? Again, I think not.

Let us not throw out the baby with the bathwater because the water has become dirty.

 

[amadeus]

Sure, we can consider all possibilities, but I’m typically cautious when self edification is involved.

Even people who serve God most of the time have moments when they have been quenching the Spirit within them and following their own lead. Pride is one of those things that will get hold of an intelligent well educated man, or a man who has received many things from God. There really is a time to give God the glory! When is it time to pat ourselves on the back?

Even if a minister of God who received the Truth previously takes his eyes off the Lord for a period of time, does this negate what God has spoken through him previously? Consider the unnamed prophet sent out of Judah to King Jeroboam in the north [I Kings 13] and consider Moses, who smote the rock instead speaking to it...

 

[Paul Christensen]

This thread is about "tongues".
Not about Jesus receiving a crown in 1914.

There's a couple of my teeth that need crowns, but that is right off topic!!

 

[Gary Urban]

I used to go to an Assembly of God church here where I moved to, because there wasn't a Foursquare Gospel in my town. I was from California where I attended The Church On The Way since the 70's. I miss how the Spirit moved there every time the doors were open. Here at the AOG I missed the Spirit. I also noticed some false doctrine regarding sin being preached, so I had to leave.

I believe we must be baptized with the Spirit in order to be born again. And I believe those who believe in Jesus will receive all the authorities of Mark 16:16-18. But I believe the evidence of having been baptized in the Spirit is sinlessness. 1 John 3:9, not the operation of any gift. We have those of Mark 16 whether we know it or not. So us operating them is NOT the evidence. Being free from sin is the evidence.

Yes no outward sign .

Tongues is simply prophecy heard in other languages .When Peter spoke in Hebrew, as a gift of God (hearing) other nations heard the word and believed as a anchor to thier new souls . The fulfilment of Joel the time of reformation had come.

Mark 16:16-18.represents that which follows one beliveing not something we can seek after . Metphors used in that parable are not to be taken literally. Some have drank literal poison which represents the false gospel.(slain in the spirit ) This show the witness of the spirit of judgment slaying them in the spirit . Mocking the spirit of judgement they make sounds without neaning and fall backward as slain in spirit. Most likely not knowing it opposes the gospel.

The doctrine of the spirit of jusgment falling backward slain must be compared when looking at the doctrine of tongues. The foundation law is found in Isaiah 28 re-visted in 1 Corthihian 14

 

[marksman]

I didn't know that the Holy Spirit is still adding to Scripture these days. And who is the privileged recipient of this new revelation?

Neither did I.

 

[marksman]

I didn't know that the Holy Spirit is still adding to Scripture these days. And who is the privileged recipient of this new revelation?

I would rather the Holy Spirit lead me to the right car to buy than trust my own judgment. I did that last time I bought a car and I still have it 21 years later.

Unfortunately I could not find any instructiion about buying a Mitsubishi Verada in scripture so I am grateful for the Spirit's leading.

 

[Paul Christensen]

Yes no outward sign .

Tongues is simply prophecy heard in other languages .When Peter spoke in Hebrew, as a gift of God (hearing) other nations heard the word and believed as a anchor to thier new souls . The fulfilment of Joel the time of reformation had come.

Mark 16:16-18.represents that which follows one beliveing not something we can seek after . Metphors used in that parable are not to be taken literally. Some have drank literal poison which represents the false gospel.(slain in the spirit ) This show the witness of the spirit of judgment slaying them in the spirit . Mocking the spirit of judgement they make sounds without neaning and fall backward as slain in spirit. Most likely not knowing it opposes the gospel.

The doctrine of the spirit of jusgment falling backward slain must be compared when looking at the doctrine of tongues. The foundation law is found in Isaiah 28 re-visted in 1 Corthihian 14

None of this is founded on sound doctrine based in Scripture. Looks to me like a grouping of random thoughts based on bits of verses resulting a a post that has little credibility for a serious student of Scripture.

Sorry. Nice try but no cigar!

 

[Paul Christensen]

I would rather the Holy Spirit lead me to the right car to buy than trust my own judgment. I did that last time I bought a car and I still have it 21 years later.

Unfortunately I could not find any instructiion about buying a Mitsubishi Verada in scripture so I am grateful for the Spirit's leading.

I couldn't find any direct instruction in Scripture for me to buy my Nissan Pulsar, but a helpful salesman friend went around all the car yards in the area to find us the very best deal for our money. Maybe he was led by the Holy Spirit.

Or is it a matter of asking the Lord for wisdom according to James 1:5 to find the wisest choice for a motor car? Do you know that Moses had the first motor car? He burned up the desert in his Triumph!

 

[Robert Gwin]

You should try to follow the lead of the one who wrote the OP on the thread. These threads get too complicated sometimes in any case. This thread was started by @Triumph1300

I try to follow the post I am responding to sir, less confusion that way. Virtually every conversation evolves.

 

[Robert Gwin]

This thread is about "tongues".
Not about Jesus receiving a crown in 1914.

Was not that fitting for the post it was responded to sir?

 

[Gary Urban]

None of this is founded on sound doctrine based in Scripture. Looks to me like a grouping of random thoughts based on bits of verses resulting a a post that has little credibility for a serious student of Scripture.

Sorry. Nice try but no cigar!

Hey. . ! That’s my saying. . no ringing of the bell no cigar. LOL

Did you look to the foundation of the “doctrine of tongues” as a law revisited in 1 Corinthians 14:22-23 which is not subject to change?

David in the Psalms inspired of God said; if they destroy the foundations of the doctrines. . what could those who have the righteousness of Christ (Christians do) ? Changing the foundation can change the commandments from those of God. . . giving them over to a law of men (Pharisees with Sadducees) Jesus called those fathers a brood of vipers the poisons of false prophecy false apostles . The fall Genesis . .the oral traditon. . . You shall surely not die look at my beauty and live.


The foundation informs us I believe because they who refused the understanding of prophecy they would rather follow an oral tradition of men as that which make the word of God without effect . The law of the fathers I heard it through the grape vine .

Note Green believers of prophecy the word of God as it is written Tongues prophecy

Note. . .Blue those who follow the oral traditions of men making the tradition of God sola scriptural desolate, powerless.

1 Corithians 14: 21-22 In the law it is written,(Isaiah 28) With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord. Wherefore tongues (prophecy) are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.


I would offer. The foundation of the doctrine (Isaiah 28) informs us why, how and the purpose of those who mock the word of God as those who do make senseless noises and fall backward to show they have been slain in the spirit (mockery )

I would be very careful on how we say we hear God when looking at the doctrine of tongues making sure that we search out all of the doctrine. Or possibly no cigar


Isaiah 28:9-13 (ERV)The people say, “Who does he think he is trying to teach and explain his message to? Does he think we are babies who were at their mother’s breast only a very short time ago? He speaks to us as though we were babies:“Saw lasaw saw lasaw Qaw laqaw qaw laqawZe’er sham ze’er sham.”So God will use this strange way of talking, and he will use other languages to speak to these people.In the past he spoke to them and said, “Here is a resting place. Let those who are tired come and rest. This is the place of peace.”But they would not listen to him. So the Lord’s words will be senseless sounds[ to them:“Saw lasaw saw lasaw.Qaw laqaw qaw laqaw.Ze’er sham ze’er sham.” When the people try to walk, they will fall backwards. They will be defeated, trapped, and captured

.I think it can be seen when compared to the "spirit of judgment" defined in a parable by the tribe of Dan.it informs of those who have believed by the lies of false prophecy (oral traditions of men) they are pictured falling of their high horse breaking one neck or falling backward slain by the spirit .

Makes me wonder why anyone would desire to be slain? Other than causing a wonderment which cannot ring the bell, I see no purpose.

Genesis 49:16-17 King James Version (KJV) . Dan shall judge his people, as one of the tribes of Israel. Dan shall be a serpent by the way, an adder in the path, that biteth the horse heels, so that his rider shall fall backward.

Falling backward or breaking ones neck is used in many places to help us distinguish between the traditions of God as it is written and that of man I heard it through the grape vine.

Dan used to represent the letter of the law “death” It shown in practice with Judas When Jesus declared I Am. . the Holy Spirit in a demonstration moved them back and fell to the ground .
Power words I AM. . powerful savor. There are other examples of the doctrine slain in the Spirt in practice other than John18 .

John 18:5-7 King James Version (KJV) They answered him, Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus saith unto them, I am he. And Judas also, which betrayed him, stood with them. As soon then as he had said unto them, I am he, they went backward, and fell to the ground.

Last but not least I would offer interestingly additition in the description of the bride of Christ in Revelation 21 as it relates the spirit of judgement (Dan) . It list 12 apostles with the false apostle Judas missing. They would seem to represent the saints of this side of the cross as walls to the city prepared as His bride. . Using tribes as gates as old testement saints to describe the same bride with the tribe of Dan missing in the book of Revelation Neither the letter of the law (death) or those who violated it will receive the cigar . Or at least that is how I understand the doctrine of tongues.

 

[Paul Christensen]

Hey. . ! That’s my saying. . no ringing of the bell no cigar. LOL

Did you look to the foundation of the “doctrine of tongues” as a law revisited in 1 Corinthians 14:22-23 which is not subject to change?

David in the Psalms inspired of God said; if they destroy the foundations of the doctrines. . what could those who have the righteousness of Christ (Christians do) ? Changing the foundation can change the commandments from those of God. . . giving them over to a law of men (Pharisees with Sadducees) Jesus called those fathers a brood of vipers the poisons of false prophecy false apostles . The fall Genesis . .the oral traditon. . . You shall surely not die look at my beauty and live.


The foundation informs us I believe because they who refused the understanding of prophecy they would rather follow an oral tradition of men as that which make the word of God without effect . The law of the fathers I heard it through the grape vine .

Note Green believers of prophecy the word of God as it is written Tongues prophecy

Note. . .Blue those who follow the oral traditions of men making the tradition of God sola scriptural desolate, powerless.

1 Corithians 14: 21-22 In the law it is written,(Isaiah 28) With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord. Wherefore tongues (prophecy) are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.


I would offer. The foundation of the doctrine (Isaiah 28) informs us why, how and the purpose of those who mock the word of God as those who do make senseless noises and fall backward to show they have been slain in the spirit (mockery )

I would be very careful on how we say we hear God when looking at the doctrine of tongues making sure that we search out all of the doctrine. Or possibly no cigar


Isaiah 28:9-13 (ERV)The people say, “Who does he think he is trying to teach and explain his message to? Does he think we are babies who were at their mother’s breast only a very short time ago? He speaks to us as though we were babies:“Saw lasaw saw lasaw Qaw laqaw qaw laqawZe’er sham ze’er sham.”So God will use this strange way of talking, and he will use other languages to speak to these people.In the past he spoke to them and said, “Here is a resting place. Let those who are tired come and rest. This is the place of peace.”But they would not listen to him. So the Lord’s words will be senseless sounds[ to them:“Saw lasaw saw lasaw.Qaw laqaw qaw laqaw.Ze’er sham ze’er sham.” When the people try to walk, they will fall backwards. They will be defeated, trapped, and captured

.I think it can be seen when compared to the "spirit of judgment" defined in a parable by the tribe of Dan.it informs of those who have believed by the lies of false prophecy (oral traditions of men) they are pictured falling of their high horse breaking one neck or falling backward slain by the spirit .

Makes me wonder why anyone would desire to be slain? Other than causing a wonderment which cannot ring the bell, I see no purpose.

Genesis 49:16-17 King James Version (KJV) . Dan shall judge his people, as one of the tribes of Israel. Dan shall be a serpent by the way, an adder in the path, that biteth the horse heels, so that his rider shall fall backward.

Falling backward or breaking ones neck is used in many places to help us distinguish between the traditions of God as it is written and that of man I heard it through the grape vine.

Dan used to represent the letter of the law “death” It shown in practice with Judas When Jesus declared I Am. . the Holy Spirit in a demonstration moved them back and fell to the ground .
Power words I AM. . powerful savor. There are other examples of the doctrine slain in the Spirt in practice other than John18 .

John 18:5-7 King James Version (KJV) They answered him, Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus saith unto them, I am he. And Judas also, which betrayed him, stood with them. As soon then as he had said unto them, I am he, they went backward, and fell to the ground.

Last but not least I would offer interestingly additition in the description of the bride of Christ in Revelation 21 as it relates the spirit of judgement (Dan) . It list 12 apostles with the false apostle Judas missing. They would seem to represent the saints of this side of the cross as walls to the city prepared as His bride. . Using tribes as gates as old testement saints to describe the same bride with the tribe of Dan missing in the book of Revelation Neither the letter of the law (death) or those who violated it will receive the cigar . Or at least that is how I understand the doctrine of tongues.

First of all, tongues is not a doctrine. It is a tool of the Spirit, designed to compliment a believer's prayer life. It is also a ministry tool along with interpretation to build up the faith of a fellowship group.

Paul said that tongues was a sign to unbelievers to show them that believers speaking in tongues is a sign to unbelievers that judgment will come to them if they continue rejecting Christ. Paul quotes Isaiah to show that this is the same when those in Israel heard the foreign language of the invaders. The fact that Israel was being invaded by pagan invaders showed that judgment was upon them for their idolatry and unfaitfhfulness to God.

All you have done is to combine a whole hodgepodge of references and sentences to try and show some sort of doctrine of tongues. And you have built it all on two verses, which were not part of Paul's main teaching about tongues. It is like taking the minor characters of a play and making them the major ones, like Tom Stoppard's Rozencrantz and Guildenstern Are Dead, where
he builds his play on the minor characters of Hamlet, and has the major characters having little function at all.

 

[Gary Urban]

First of all, tongues is not a doctrine. It is a tool of the Spirit, designed to compliment a believer's prayer life. It is also a ministry tool along with interpretation to build up the faith of a fellowship group.

Tongues, prophecy of God is a doctrine of God and not a doctrine of men.

Paul said that tongues was a sign to unbelievers to show them that believers speaking in tongues is a sign to unbelievers that judgment will come to them if they continue rejecting Christ.

Paul said that tongues was a sign against unbelievers that refused to hear prophecy the tongue of God . Yet for all that they believed not (1 Corinthians 14:22-23)

Paul quotes Isaiah to show that this is the same when those in Israel heard the foreign language of the invaders.

It had nothing to do with the foreign language it had to do with the tongue of God prophecy . When Peter spoke prophecy each man heard it in their own tongue

All you have done is to combine a whole hodgepodge of references and sentences to try and show some sort of doctrine of tongues.

I have built it on the law (Isaiah 28 ) that was repeated as a reference in 1 Corinthians 14:22 23 .Men mocking God making sound without meaning falling backward mocking the spirit of judgment spoken of Dan . God mocking them speaking to them in the strange language no understanding of faith given

There are other verses other than John 18 (I am... and the power Holy Spirit moved Judas back falling to the ground "slain in the spirit" or break neck. . like in hanging. That show the work of tongues the prophecy of God. The power of God word causes mankind to fall backward poisoned by false doctrines according to the spirit of judgment found in Genesis 49 .

The docrrine of the spirit of judgment is reckoned by those who fall backward slain in the spirit .Why anyone would desire to show oneself as those who make a mockery of the law is a mystery to me.

Went or fall backward (break neck) has some meaning . . it knocked Judas the false apostle of his high horse


Genesis 49:17 Dan shall be a serpent by the way, an adder in the path, that biteth the horse heels, so that his rider shall fall backward.

1 Samuel 4:18And it came to pass, when he made mention of the ark of God, that he fell from off the seat backward by the side of the gate, and his neck brake, and he died: for he was an old man, and heavy. And he had judged Israel forty years.

Psalm 40:14 Let them be ashamed and confounded together that seek after my soul to destroy it; let them be driven backward and put to shame that wish me evil.

Isaiah 1:4 Ah sinful nation, a people laden with iniquity, a seed of evildoers, children that are corrupters: they have forsaken the Lord, they have provoked the Holy One of Israel unto anger, they are gone away backward.

Isaiah 28:13But the word of the Lord was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

Isaiah 44:25That frustrateth the tokens of the liars, and maketh diviners mad; that turneth wise men backward, and maketh their knowledge foolish;

Isaiah 59:14 And judgment is turned away backward, and justice standeth afar off: for truth is fallen in the street, and equity cannot enter.

Jeremiah 7:24 But they hearkened not, nor inclined their ear, but walked in the counsels and in the imagination of their evil heart, and went backward, and not forward.

Thou hast forsaken me, saith the Lord, thou art gone backward: therefore will I stretch out my hand against thee, and destroy thee; I am weary with repenting.

 

[marksman]

I couldn't find any direct instruction in Scripture for me to buy my Nissan Pulsar, but a helpful salesman friend went around all the car yards in the area to find us the very best deal for our money. Maybe he was led by the Holy Spirit.

Or is it a matter of asking the Lord for wisdom according to James 1:5 to find the wisest choice for a motor car? Do you know that Moses had the first motor car? He burned up the desert in his Triumph!

And did you know that Moses was the first person with a tablet downloading data from the cloud?

 

[Paul Christensen]

And did you know that Moses was the first person with a tablet downloading data from the cloud?

I thought he had a headache and took two tablets!