Trinity Belief and Born Again?

[Rich R]

It is said that one must believe in the trinity to get born again. Here are a few verses that tell us how to get saved:

Acts 2:38,

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.​

Acts 3:19,

Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;​

Acts 4:12,

Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.​

Rom 10:9,

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.​

Rom 10:13,

For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.​

1Cor 1:2,

Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called [to be] saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:​

Eph 2:8,

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:
​

As is evident, none of them mention anything about a trinity. Nor can any such declaration be found anywhere else in the scriptures. So where did the idea that one must believe in the trinity to get saved come from? The question can be answered quite simply: the Athenasian Creed, not formulated until the middle of the 4th century. That of course raises the question of whether people living prior to that were really saved. Paul never said anything about a trinity in connection with being saved. Was Paul therefore not saved?

Should the church really build a doctrine on a man made creed along with the scriptures?

 

[Michiah-Imla]

The “trinity” doctrine is just a distraction from the weightier matters in scripture.

“But speak thou the things which become sound doctrine: That the aged men be sober, grave, temperate, sound in faith, in charity, in patience. The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things; That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children, To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed. Young men likewise exhort to be sober minded. In all things shewing thyself a pattern of good works: in doctrine shewing uncorruptness, gravity, sincerity, Sound speech, that cannot be condemned; that he that is of the contrary part may be ashamed, having no evil thing to say of you.” (Titus 2:1-10)

 

[Bob Estey]

It is said that one must believe in the trinity to get born again. Here are a few verses that tell us how to get saved:

Acts 2:38,

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.​

Acts 3:19,

Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;​

Acts 4:12,

Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.​

Rom 10:9,

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.​

Rom 10:13,

For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.​

1Cor 1:2,

Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called [to be] saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:​

Eph 2:8,

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:
​

As is evident, none of them mention anything about a trinity. Nor can any such declaration be found anywhere else in the scriptures. So where did the idea that one must believe in the trinity to get saved come from? The question can be answered quite simply: the Athenasian Creed, not formulated until the middle of the 4th century. That of course raises the question of whether people living prior to that were really saved. Paul never said anything about a trinity in connection with being saved. Was Paul therefore not saved?

Should the church really build a doctrine on a man made creed along with the scriptures?

I always get yelled at for believing as I do. I believe in one God who is simultaneously a Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, like my dad was simultaneously a dad, husband, lawyer, son, etc.

 

[theefaith]

It is said that one must believe in the trinity to get born again. Here are a few verses that tell us how to get saved:

Acts 2:38,

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.​

Acts 3:19,

Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;​

Acts 4:12,

Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.​

Rom 10:9,

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.​

Rom 10:13,

For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.​

1Cor 1:2,

Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called [to be] saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:​

Eph 2:8,

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:
​

As is evident, none of them mention anything about a trinity. Nor can any such declaration be found anywhere else in the scriptures. So where did the idea that one must believe in the trinity to get saved come from? The question can be answered quite simply: the Athenasian Creed, not formulated until the middle of the 4th century. That of course raises the question of whether people living prior to that were really saved. Paul never said anything about a trinity in connection with being saved. Was Paul therefore not saved?

Should the church really build a doctrine on a man made creed along with the scriptures?

the church of the apostles are led by the HS into all truth!
Jn 16:13

you can’t be saved without baptism in the Matt 28:19 form

and no one is saved until the end of our life!

 

[Enoch111]

For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

This verse in itself implies the Trinity. And all those who call upon the name of the Lord are baptized in the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. So there is no escaping the doctrine of the Trinity nor the doctrine of the deity of Christ.

 

[XFire]

The only trinity doctrine that is true it John 14.20

 

[XFire]

If you gave to belive in the trinity to go to heaven. Then you have added a 2 tier requirement to salvation

 

[stunnedbygrace]

It is said that one must believe in the trinity to get born again.

Well, it’s so obviously false. As doctrines of men go, it’s not so harmful as some of the others, but no, you don’t have to believe it to receive the Holy Spirit.

 

[RedFan]

It is said that one must believe in the trinity to get born again. . . So where did the idea that one must believe in the trinity to get saved come from? The question can be answered quite simply: the Athenasian Creed, not formulated until the middle of the 4th century.

Rich, did you really mean to equate "born again" with getting saved?

I don't see the "born again" notion anywhere in the Athanasian Creed, which proclaims adherence to the doctrine of the Trinity as a prerequisite to being saved. Being "born again" is not the same as being saved (although it, also, may be a prerequisite to salvation).

It's your post, and you can equate "born again" and salvation if you want, but I think inviting debate on whether one who is "born again" is automatically saved will just distract from your main point -- which, by the way, is a great one.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Rich, did you really mean to equate "born again" with getting saved?

To be born again is to receive the Holy Spirit.
Once you receive the Holy Spirit, you will never die but will live forever.
When people say “saved” they mostly mean saved from death/live eternally.
So born again equates to “saved.”

 

[RedFan]

To be born again is to receive the Holy Spirit.
Once you receive the Holy Spirit, you will never die but will live forever.
When people say “saved” they mostly mean saved from death/live eternally.
So born again equates to “saved.”

I respectfully disagree. Those who believe that once you’re “born again,” you can’t “die” again aren't taking into account the possibility that even born-again Christians can thereafter lapse into sin and choose to stay in sin.

 

[XFire]

Wow: Again the trinitarians go for mans traditions (the Athanasian Creed) to make us believe in another god!
Let's see: If I am not mistaken thats when the RC church was killing those that refused to believe like they were! Hmm...
Isn't that what they did to our Lord?

 

[APAK]

I respectfully disagree. Those who believe that once you’re “born again,” you can’t “die” again aren't taking into account the possibility that even born-again Christians can thereafter lapse into sin and choose to stay in sin.

I take it you are not a genuine believer then? When someone speaks about a Sin lapse, and 'choosing' to stay is sin, these are some common words used by unbelievers and a sure sign they are not saved and being saved in this life. Have you felt this way all along since you evidently profess to be a Christian? Sounds like a burdensome and lonely road you trek.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I respectfully disagree. Those who believe that once you’re “born again,” you can’t “die” again aren't taking into account the possibility that even born-again Christians can thereafter lapse into sin and choose to stay in sin.

By scripture, we see there is more to it all than the doctrines of men propose. For instance, there is an outer darkness. They say this outer darkness is the lake of fire, but it does not read so that this assumption should be automatically made. Fire gives off light and darkness is no light. How is the assumption made that the outer darkness is the lake of fire? And we are told that, in the end, hell and it’s contents are thrown into the lake of fire but it never says outer darkness is thrown into the lake of fire. So at first glance, it appears that the outer darkness could possibly be a place where it’s human inhabitants live forever. Yet no human can live forever UNLESS they receive Gods Spirit. So it begins to look a bit terrifying and annihilation in the lake of fire begins to seem more merciful than outer darkness. At least the wailing and gnashing of teeth would end there for an uneternal human who never received the Spirit of God. It’s the second death for a human. Not sure about satan though, he appears to somehow be an eternal being. I don’t think the lake of fire would destroy him but…not sure.

I am hoping the outer darkness might actually be a purgatorial type place that lasts only for the one thousand years, but I don’t know for sure. There is the parable of the one who had his debt forgiven but then did not forgive someone else’s debt, so his own debt was reinstated. It ends by saying he will be thrown into prison and will not come out until he has paid the last cent. I think that prison could be the outer darkness. A place where stripes are received to varying degrees, more stripes for some and less stripes for some, as scripture says:
But someone who does not know, and then does something wrong, will be punished only lightly. When someone has been given much, much will be required in return; and when someone has been entrusted with much, even more will be required.

In a great house there are both vessels of honor and vessels of dishonor. So for us, a question comes up - saved/live eternally, yes, BUT - saved to WHAT? Honor? Or dishonor? Saved/live eternally with treasure stored up in heaven or saved/live eternally as if through fire, a pauper?

 

[XFire]

To me salvation/born again is something that you can not see. If a person lapses into sin: Were they relly born again in the first place. Then you also have the sons of perdition as Judas. He manifested the gifts of the HS and then denied him. So he did lose his salvation.
Then Peter stated that Jesus was the Christ and a few verses down the page Jesus had to tell him: Get thee behind me satan.

So even an Apostle -- who at that time might not of had had the HS (but thought he was born again) backslid.

 

[theefaith]

If you gave to belive in the trinity to go to heaven. Then you have added a 2 tier requirement to salvation

Christ alone?

John 5:24
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Romans 4:24
But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

Not Christ alone must also believe on the Father who sent Christ!

 

[theefaith]

Rich, did you really mean to equate "born again" with getting saved?

I don't see the "born again" notion anywhere in the Athanasian Creed, which proclaims adherence to the doctrine of the Trinity as a prerequisite to being saved. Being "born again" is not the same as being saved (although it, also, may be a prerequisite to salvation).

It's your post, and you can equate "born again" and salvation if you want, but I think inviting debate on whether one who is "born again" is automatically saved will just distract from your main point -- which, by the way, is a great one.

born again (faith & baptism) is justification not salvation


Redemption, Justification, Sanctification, and Salvation!

Redemption: 100 percent the work of God, thru the life, death, resurrection, and ascension of Jesus Christ! All mankind are redeemed in Christ! Eph 2
Galatians 2:16 3:13
Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law...
Christ alone accomplished the redemption of mankind apart from any works on our part!

(Redemption is not Salvation)
Rom 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.


Justification: our acceptance of redemption thru faith and baptism! Become a disciple and member of Christ and His Church! Jn 3:5 acts 2:38 Mk 16:16 He who believes and is baptized shall be saved. 1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.


Sanctification: the life of grace in the holy sacrifice of the mass and sacraments, prayer, virture, and good works, the just living by faith, and faith working thru love! Phil 1:29 called to suffer with Christ.
All done in Christ thru His grace! Jn 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

Salvation: a christian in the state if grace at the moment of death we enter into the salvation of the Lord! Mt 24:44-47 faithful servant! Jn 15:1-5 abide in me. Mt 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Heb 3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
Heb 6:11 And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:
Heb 4:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
Rom 13:11 ...for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

Suffering required for glorification with Christ!

Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

Justification and salvation are not the same rom 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

 

[RedFan]

I take it you are not a genuine believer then? When someone speaks about a Sin lapse, and 'choosing' to stay is sin, these are some common words used by unbelievers and a sure sign they are not saved and being saved in this life. Have you felt this way all along since you evidently profess to be a Christian? Sounds like a burdensome and lonely road you trek.

Thanks, APAK. Since I don't know what you think a "genuine believer" believes, I can't really answer your question. But I can comment on -- and agree with -- your distinction between those who "are not saved and being saved in this life." It is not the "saved" part but the "being saved" part which I think, and certainly hope, describes me as a Christian. (As an aside, and not to spark a separate debate, I note that 1 Cor. 1:18 and 2 Cor. 2:15 both use the word σῳζομένοις, which is a present participle, properly translated as “being saved.” The KJV translates it as “saved.” One of the few times I think the KJV does its readers a disservice.)

The best way I can answer you is to say I think salvation is a process, not a one shot deal as being "born again" might suggest. For that reason, I am not so bold as to proclaim that I have a guarantee of Heaven. And I do not agree that accepting Christ as one's Lord and Savior at a particular point in time is a ticket to Heaven that can never be voided by one's subsequent actions at later points in time.

 

[Enoch111]

If you gave to belive in the trinity to go to heaven. Then you have added a 2 tier requirement to salvation

Since you have to believe that Jesus is God who became sinless Man to die for your sins, that already means that you have to believe that there are two divine persons within the Godhead. And since Jesus commands you to be baptized in the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, if you refuse to obey him, then you have not really believed on Him, which means that you will die in your sins.

 

[ChristisGod]

Well, it’s so obviously false. As doctrines of men go, it’s not so harmful as some of the others, but no, you don’t have to believe it to receive the Holy Spirit.

Can a person deny Jesus Deity and be saved ?