@Christophany John 8.24: "I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins."
Trinity Belief and Born Again?
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I never heard any Christian believe any but the Trinity, Father Son and Holy spirit. until I came on this site. But as there are people who are of other persuasions on here i suppose it is inevitable. I will stick to what the bible teaches me and continue to stand on the Rock who is Jesus - God the Son.
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lets go thru this again
The historical perspective:
The wolves were already in the flock before the apostles died.
The book of John was not even started until after that period
The religious powers at the time of Christ killed him because He threatened their power
Tertillion, the originator of the trinity even stated that Jesus was subordinate to God the Father
advance to the Nicene counsels
So you are telling all of us that the antichrist some how left man alone for an unknown period of time to get their spiritual act together to come up with the trinity? dont you get it. It was solidified by satan
I say satan because for the next 1300-1400 years the RC church killed what you and they called heretics
Next the scripture related perspective.
Let God be tru and all men liars:
Jame 1:13 God cant be tempted with evil contrasted with Matt 4:1-4 Satan (evil): You have just call My Savior a liar!!
Now you also make Jesus a ventriloquist: On the mount of transfiguration, at his baptism etc.
1 TIm 2:5, Luke 9.352Tim 1.1-2Jon 14:28, 14:20: Again you have made Christ a liar!
Matt 28:18: Jesus is subordinate -- there are many others
For the scriptural perspective satan has blinded your eyes
From my perspective:
You have made God in your own image
You refuse to allow for Eph 4:13 --- the unity of the faith unless I believe like you.
Christ himself only put a one step to come unto Him. For salvation and you have added more
Wow again that sounds like the OT Jews that Jesus came and denounced
And I have heard so many times that the HS told me that the trinity is true.
That sounds just like the mormons stating the the HS said the book of mormon is true.
Question for all: Will the HS tell you something that can not be backed up in scripture?
And I don't mean parts of the OT/NT --- I mean all of it and especially the words in red
I feel sorry because due to your beliefs you have forgotten that the unity of the faith is the Love/relationship we have with God and Christ.
And when you have that relationship: All these theological barriers just seem to melt away!
The historical perspective:
The wolves were already in the flock before the apostles died.
The book of John was not even started until after that period
The religious powers at the time of Christ killed him because He threatened their power
Tertillion, the originator of the trinity even stated that Jesus was subordinate to God the Father
advance to the Nicene counsels
So you are telling all of us that the antichrist some how left man alone for an unknown period of time to get their spiritual act together to come up with the trinity? dont you get it. It was solidified by satan
I say satan because for the next 1300-1400 years the RC church killed what you and they called heretics
Next the scripture related perspective.
Let God be tru and all men liars:
Jame 1:13 God cant be tempted with evil contrasted with Matt 4:1-4 Satan (evil): You have just call My Savior a liar!!
Now you also make Jesus a ventriloquist: On the mount of transfiguration, at his baptism etc.
1 TIm 2:5, Luke 9.352Tim 1.1-2Jon 14:28, 14:20: Again you have made Christ a liar!
Matt 28:18: Jesus is subordinate -- there are many others
For the scriptural perspective satan has blinded your eyes
From my perspective:
You have made God in your own image
You refuse to allow for Eph 4:13 --- the unity of the faith unless I believe like you.
Christ himself only put a one step to come unto Him. For salvation and you have added more
Wow again that sounds like the OT Jews that Jesus came and denounced
And I have heard so many times that the HS told me that the trinity is true.
That sounds just like the mormons stating the the HS said the book of mormon is true.
Question for all: Will the HS tell you something that can not be backed up in scripture?
And I don't mean parts of the OT/NT --- I mean all of it and especially the words in red
I feel sorry because due to your beliefs you have forgotten that the unity of the faith is the Love/relationship we have with God and Christ.
And when you have that relationship: All these theological barriers just seem to melt away!
Can a person deny Jesus Deity and be saved ?
Jesus is God: He obtained that in Matt 28:18 He is the heir. Just like you and I: Joint heirs
Jesus is God: He obtained that in Matt 28:18 He is the heir. Just like you and I: Joint heirs
Hi @XFire Scripture is full of God in Three Persons. The Lord Jesus is both God and man: John 1.14; Colossians 2.9; 1 Timothy 3.16.
Here are scriptures of baptism in Jesus name...
Acts 2:38 "Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the NAME of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."
Acts 8:16 "(For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the NAME of the Lord Jesus)."
Acts 19:5 "When they heard this, they were baptized in the NAME of the Lord Jesus."
Now you show me scripture where ANYONE was baptized using the words, "Father, Son, Holy Ghost"
Although I am a Trinitarian, I think the answer is Yes.
Again you fail to read John 1.1 then Rev 1.1 then Rev 3.14. Jesus states himself that he is the first creation of God.
SO when you say many scriptures of 3 in one the best one is the trinity shown in John 14:20
Also in Rev 1.5 where Jesus states he is the faithful witness in 3:14 above
Read your history of the creation of the trinity doctrine. Read what the church did to Arian, the Egyptian church. The ALexadria library. And then tell be that was done for God. The blood of 10s of thousands or more are on the church that killed to force satan on you!
SO when you say many scriptures of 3 in one the best one is the trinity shown in John 14:20
Also in Rev 1.5 where Jesus states he is the faithful witness in 3:14 above
Read your history of the creation of the trinity doctrine. Read what the church did to Arian, the Egyptian church. The ALexadria library. And then tell be that was done for God. The blood of 10s of thousands or more are on the church that killed to force satan on you!
You've lost me, user. What has this baptismal formula described in Acts got to do with whether the Trinity is or isn't accurate? (Come to think of it, if Acts HAD referenced a formula requiring baptism in the name of Father, Son and Holy Ghost, what would THAT have to do with whether the Trinity is or isn't accurate?)
I just cannot make the logical leap that if the apostles were Trinitarians they would have implemented a baptismal formula that went beyond "in the name of Jesus Christ." Yet that's the minor premise in your syllogism, isn't it?
A. The baptismal formula in Acts call for baptism only in Jesus' name.
B. If the Trinity were accurate, that formula would have included all three persons in the Trinity.
therefore,
C. The Trinity is hogwash.
I think maybe a person who is a follower of Jesus and who has been taught that Jesus is not God may still be saved because I think it is WHO we believe IN and our relationship with Jesus that save us.
You are correct. .And, Matt 28:19 is not the only account of the great commission....
Luke 24:47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
ByGraceThroughFaith
Well-Known Member
Anyone who does not believe in the Teaching of the Trinity, has a unbiblical and false view of the God of the Holy Bible.
The term Trinity defines what the Bible is clear on God. The Godhead, as in Romans 1:20, is the Greek word, "θειότης", which is, "the Divine nature", wich is One. There is One God. However, it is equally clear from the Bible, that there are Three distinct "Persons" (as opposed to "things"), Who are equally called "God", which is true of the Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit. Each is called Yahweh in the Old Testament, as distinct from each other, as we have in Zechariah chapter 2, where the Speaker is Yahweh, Who says that another, Who is also Yahweh, has sent Him. Both the sender and the sent are equally called Yahweh. In 2 Samuel 23:2-3, as in the Hebrew grammar, we have the Holy Spirit Who is Yahweh, and called, "The God of Israel the Rock of Israel".
In the New Testament, we have John 1:1, 18, where again we have two distinct Persons, Who are equally called God, the Father and Jesus Christ. In Acts 5:3-4, we have the Holy Spirit as God, as He is in Hebrews 3:7-11.
To deny the Trinity, is to deny that there are Three distinct Persons, Who are equally called Yahweh/God in the Bible, and to reduce Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit to created beings, which is blasphemy.
Either we accept that the Trinity is Biblically correct, which says that the Godhead is One; and there are three distinct Persons in this Godhead, who are equally God, which is what the Bible does teach. Or, we have three Gods. There is no other human term that can so perfectly define the God of the Holy Bible.
Only those who theology pervents them from accepting these Great Truths of Scripture, will argue that this is not the case, even though it is very clear to be what the Bible Teaches.
Any other understanding of God, than the Trinity, is FALSE.
The term Trinity defines what the Bible is clear on God. The Godhead, as in Romans 1:20, is the Greek word, "θειότης", which is, "the Divine nature", wich is One. There is One God. However, it is equally clear from the Bible, that there are Three distinct "Persons" (as opposed to "things"), Who are equally called "God", which is true of the Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit. Each is called Yahweh in the Old Testament, as distinct from each other, as we have in Zechariah chapter 2, where the Speaker is Yahweh, Who says that another, Who is also Yahweh, has sent Him. Both the sender and the sent are equally called Yahweh. In 2 Samuel 23:2-3, as in the Hebrew grammar, we have the Holy Spirit Who is Yahweh, and called, "The God of Israel the Rock of Israel".
In the New Testament, we have John 1:1, 18, where again we have two distinct Persons, Who are equally called God, the Father and Jesus Christ. In Acts 5:3-4, we have the Holy Spirit as God, as He is in Hebrews 3:7-11.
To deny the Trinity, is to deny that there are Three distinct Persons, Who are equally called Yahweh/God in the Bible, and to reduce Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit to created beings, which is blasphemy.
Either we accept that the Trinity is Biblically correct, which says that the Godhead is One; and there are three distinct Persons in this Godhead, who are equally God, which is what the Bible does teach. Or, we have three Gods. There is no other human term that can so perfectly define the God of the Holy Bible.
Only those who theology pervents them from accepting these Great Truths of Scripture, will argue that this is not the case, even though it is very clear to be what the Bible Teaches.
Any other understanding of God, than the Trinity, is FALSE.
ChristisGod
Well-Known Member
ByGraceThroughFaith
Well-Known Member
a person who does not believe in the absolute Deity of Jesus Christ, is a follower of a false, unbiblical Jesus.
ByGraceThroughFaith
Well-Known Member
ChristisGod
Well-Known Member
Here is one passage where the NT interprets the OT.
Joel 2:32
32 "And it will come about that whoever calls on the name of the LORD
Will be delivered;
For on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem
There will be those who escape,
As the LORD has said,
Even among the survivors whom the LORD calls.
Here we see Paul quote this OT passage about YHWH and apply it to Jesus who is the one and only Lord according to the N.T.
Romans 10:9-13
9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, "WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED." 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him; 13 for "WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED."
So a person must confess Jesus is YHWH(Lord) to be saved. Confess means to agree with so the person confessing Jesus is Lord is in agreement that He is YHWH. Whoever will call upon the name of the Lord ( YHWH) will be saved.
Joel 2:32
32 "And it will come about that whoever calls on the name of the LORD
Will be delivered;
For on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem
There will be those who escape,
As the LORD has said,
Even among the survivors whom the LORD calls.
Here we see Paul quote this OT passage about YHWH and apply it to Jesus who is the one and only Lord according to the N.T.
Romans 10:9-13
9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, "WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED." 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him; 13 for "WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED."
So a person must confess Jesus is YHWH(Lord) to be saved. Confess means to agree with so the person confessing Jesus is Lord is in agreement that He is YHWH. Whoever will call upon the name of the Lord ( YHWH) will be saved.
Triumph1300
Well-Known Member
Looks like another discussion full of legalism going on here.
When I read this thread I find out that lots of people seem to think that what Christ did on the cross was not enough.
I have news for some of you: You cannot work your way into heaven.
When I read this thread I find out that lots of people seem to think that what Christ did on the cross was not enough.
I have news for some of you: You cannot work your way into heaven.
ByGraceThroughFaith
Well-Known Member
very simply put, to deny that Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit are Almighty God, is to deny what the Bible Teaches is True, and to make God a liar, for Teaching us that which is false. It is just that. Either the Bible is True in what it says, or it is not, and therefore when we read of Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit as God, in exactly the same way the Father is God, it is untrue!
ByGraceThroughFaith
Well-Known Member
who is this "Christ"? a "Man", or, as Paul says, "God manifested in the flesh" (1 Timothy 3:16), and therefore Yahweh. There are many "christs" who are false, and then there is Jesus THE Christ, the God-Man. the Bible is very clear
Predictably, this OP has morphed from (1) Must one believe in the accuracy of the Trinity in order to be saved? to (2) Is the Trinity accurate? to (3) Is the Trinity Biblical? At least the latter two questions have been beaten to death for months on this Forum in dozens of OPs and thousands of responses -- and neither those strings nor this one has or will change anybody's mind. So what are we doing here?
The more interesting question to me is, does anyone posting here truly believe they are going to change someone's mind on the Trinity? If anyone has a Yes answer to that question, I'd love to hear you explain why you think so.
The more interesting question to me is, does anyone posting here truly believe they are going to change someone's mind on the Trinity? If anyone has a Yes answer to that question, I'd love to hear you explain why you think so.
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