Trinity Belief and Born Again?

[theefaith]

notice the omission of water baptism in the second half of Mark. Acts 8 is not talking about water baptism for salvation. In verse 37, as in the KJV, which is part of Acts, it says, " And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God". is only AFTER this confession, that he was baptised. the Confession itself saved him.

Mark 16:16 The requirements for those who are being saved cannot be undone by the requirements for those not being saved! He who believes and is baptized is still required for salvation? Heaven and earth may pass away but my words shall not pass away!

It is Reasonable that if one rejects faith why bother mentioning the second requirement?

So don’t negate the word of God or Jesus by trying to delete one verse with another.

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Nowhere does scripture say salvation is by “faith alone”! Rom 13:11
Or that we died with Christ by “faith alone”! Or that we put in Christ by “faith alone”! Or that we are in the church by “faith alone”!

Now you can attempt to answer these questions

Effects of faith & baptism!

Ez 36:25-27 washed in baptism, with a new heart and the Spirit
Jn 3:5 born again in baptism
Mk 16:16 faith & baptist
Acts 2:38 repentance & baptism
Acts 8:36-38 faith & baptism
Acts 22:16 baptism washes away sin
Rom 6:3 died with Christ
Col 2:12 risen with Christ
1 cor 12:13 baptized into the church
Gal 3:27 by baptism put on Christ
2 Tim 1:10 brought to life
2 cor 5:17 new creation
Eph 1:13 sealed by the Holy Spirit
Eph 2:1&5 brought to life in baptism
Eph 4:5 one baptism
Eph 5:26 faith and baptism
Titus 3:5 baptismal regeneration
1 pet 1:2 washed in Christ’s blood
1 pet 2:9 and not the kingdom of light
1 pet 3:20-21 baptism saves us!

“Faith alone” accomplishes nothing!
1 cor 13:2 even all faith (alone) without charity avails NOTHING!!!

Faith and baptism!

Scripture says none of the things about “Faith alone”!






“Faith alone”

Questions

where does scripture says we have died with Christ by “faith alone”?

Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

where does scripture say we are members of Christ and his church by “faith alone”?

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

where does scripture says we put on Christ by “faith alone”?

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Where does scripture say our sins are washed away by “faith alone”?

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

where does scripture say we are saved or justified by “faith alone”?

1 pet 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!

The only reference in scripture to “faith alone” is James 2:24 NOT BY “FAITH ALONE”?

2 pet 1: 11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

How can you enter by your own if it must be ministered to you? Baptism is done unto you, “not do it yourself by faith alone”

Jn 3:5 born again by faith alone?

Where is “Accept Christ as your personal lord & savior” is not found in scripture?

They did not go preaching this line but went immediately to the river and baptized Jn 3:22

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Eph 4:5 one baptism

Why don’t it say one teeny tiny little act of “faith alone”???

When we first believed we are saved?

Romans 13:11
And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

How can salvation be nearer than when we first believed if you’re saved by believing?

If salvation is by “faith alone” then faith would be the greatest!
1 cor 13:13 charity is the greatest!

Even all faith much less “faith alone” without charity avails nothing!
1 cor 13:2

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Thanks, APAK. Since I don't know what you think a "genuine believer" believes, I can't really answer your question. But I can comment on -- and agree with -- your distinction between those who "are not saved and being saved in this life." It is not the "saved" part but the "being saved" part which I think, and certainly hope, describes me as a Christian. (As an aside, and not to spark a separate debate, I note that 1 Cor. 1:18 and 2 Cor. 2:15 both use the word σῳζομένοις, which is a present participle, properly translated as “being saved.” The KJV translates it as “saved.” One of the few times I think the KJV does its readers a disservice.)

The best way I can answer you is to say I think salvation is a process, not a one shot deal as being "born again" might suggest. For that reason, I am not so bold as to proclaim that I have a guarantee of Heaven. And I do not agree that accepting Christ as one's Lord and Savior at a particular point in time is a ticket to Heaven that can never be voided by one's subsequent actions at later points in time.

The only caution I have is to search for yourself to see if you hold assumptions in mind that you actually can’t find in the Bible. We know, for instance, that anyone who puts their hand to the plow and then turns back is not fit for the kingdom of heaven. But what does “not fit for the kingdom” entail? Does it mean lake of fire? Outer darkness?
Because I know someone who received the Holy Spirit and was going along well but who then stopped because what began to come up was things done to her as a child that she just can’t deal with. So she fled back into keeping everything covered and believing a constructed lie, calling darkness to be light, calling what’s a lie to be the truth.
Some would pronounce a certain judgement upon her but I won’t. God is merciful and that’s where I leave it. I can’t say, oh, eternal torture for her (I don’t even believe the doctrine), or outer darkness for her, or annihilation for her.
So…just proceed with caution and humility.

 

[Pearl]

a person who does not believe in the absolute Deity of Jesus Christ, is a follower of a false, unbiblical Jesus.

It's not for us to judge these things.

 

[ChristisGod]

It's not for us to judge these things.

So can a false christ save anyone?

Why are there so many warnings in the NT about false christs ?

 

[Earburner]

and no one is saved until the end of our life!

The evidence that we are saved immediately, through faith to conversion to Christ, is found in
2 Peter 1[2] Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,
[3] According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
[4] Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

1John.5[13] These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

It's not for us to judge these things.

the Bible is The Judge of what is right and wrong, and we are messengers of its Truth.

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

cos he was not primarily sent to baptize but all apostles are sent per Matt 28:19 including paul

Paul wrote half of the New Testament. The majority of the Book of Acts is about the missionary work of Paul, and he says that water baptism is not required for salvation as it is not part of the Gospel Message. very clear

 

[Pearl]

So can a false christ save anyone?

Who is talking about a false Christ? A person who has not been taught about the Deity of Jesus can still have a personal relationship with Jesus. God looks at the heart not at the knowledge we might have or how clever we are.

1 Samuel 16:7
The Lord does not look at the things people look at. People look at the outward appearance, but the Lord looks at the heart.”

 

[theefaith]

The only caution I have is to search for yourself to see if you hold assumptions in mind that you actually can’t find in the Bible. We know, for instance, that anyone who puts their hand to the plow and then turns back is not fit for the kingdom of heaven. But what does “not fit for the kingdom” entail? Does it mean lake of fire? Outer darkness?
Because I know someone who received the Holy Spirit and was going along well but who then stopped because what began to come up was things done to her as a child that she just can’t deal with. So she fled back into keeping everything covered and believing a constructed lie, calling darkness to be light, calling what’s a lie to be the truth.
Some would pronounce a certain judgement upon her but I won’t. God is merciful and that’s where I leave it. I can’t say, oh, eternal torture for her (I don’t even believe the doctrine), or outer darkness for her, or annihilation for her.
So…just proceed with caution and humility.

why does it need be in scripture?

 

[stunnedbygrace]

It's not for us to judge these things.

Mmm…i mostly disagree, or at least partially disagree. Among ourselves, we are absolutely to speak against doctrines of men or demons that harm us. We absolutely can judge that but without pronouncing upon a person what their eternal fate will be. That we don’t dare do. We can’t see the future.

But until our flesh is put under our feet, it can still be manipulated, making us ineffective and even pulling us up into a lack of humility, which is why you can’t put new believers in charge or they could be harmed and do harm through their flesh which can still be manipulated.

But as to trampling the precious blood underfoot and treating our Lord as if He is just a bull to cover sins and nothing more, we absolutely must speak. But until we can do so without our flesh rising up, we are ineffective.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

why does it need be in scripture?

Because if you cannot find it there, then it is the leaven of men or even of demons. Some of it seems to not do such great harm, but some of it grows into a hideous thing that does great harm.

 

[ChristisGod]

Who is talking about a false Christ? A person who has not been taught about the Trinity can still have a personal relationship with Jesus. God looks at the heart not at the knowledge we might have or how clever we are.

1 Samuel 16:7
The Lord does not look at the things people look at. People look at the outward appearance, but the Lord looks at the heart.”

Can one have a relationship with a false christ , an idol ?

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Who is talking about a false Christ? A person who has not been taught about the Trinity can still have a personal relationship with Jesus. God looks at the heart not at the knowledge we might have or how clever we are.

1 Samuel 16:7
The Lord does not look at the things people look at. People look at the outward appearance, but the Lord looks at the heart.”

The post you were responding to was not regarding the doctrine of the trinity. It was regarding the deity of Christ. (I didn’t read the mans other posts though, I’m just going on what he said in that one.)

 

[farouk]

I don't see how if someone believes that the Lord Jesus is not God, then how can he or she believe He is the Saviour?

 

[Pearl]

I don't see how if someone believes that the Lord Jesus is not God, then how can he or she believe He is the Saviour?

This is something only God knows and he is wise and merciful.

 

[theefaith]

The evidence that we are saved immediately, through faith to conversion to Christ, is found in
2 Peter 1[2] Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,
[3] According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
[4] Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

1John.5[13] These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

members of Christ and his church thru faith and baptism
But that’s justification not salvation

Redemption, Justification, Sanctification, and Salvation!

Redemption: 100 percent the work of God, thru the life, death, resurrection, and ascension of Jesus Christ! All mankind are redeemed in Christ! Eph 2
Galatians 2:16 3:13
Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law...
Christ alone accomplished the redemption of mankind apart from any works on our part!

(Redemption is not Salvation)
Rom 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.


Justification: our acceptance of redemption thru faith and baptism! Become a disciple and member of Christ and His Church! Jn 3:5 acts 2:38 Mk 16:16 He who believes and is baptized shall be saved. 1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.


Sanctification: the life of grace in the holy sacrifice of the mass and sacraments, prayer, virture, and good works, the just living by faith, and faith working thru love! Phil 1:29 called to suffer with Christ.
All done in Christ thru His grace! Jn 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

Salvation: a christian in the state if grace at the moment of death we enter into the salvation of the Lord! Mt 24:44-47 faithful servant! Jn 15:1-5 abide in me. Mt 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Heb 3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
Heb 6:11 And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:
Heb 4:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
Rom 13:11 ...for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Can one have a relationship with a false christ , an idol ?

A person having a poor academic understanding of Christ does not negate their devotion, nor actually change Christ Himself.

A child whom lacks academic understanding is just saved as the most studied scholar.

 

[theefaith]

Matt 24:13 endures to the end.

Mark 13:13
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

Heb 3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;

Heb 6:11 And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:

1. Romans 11:22 – God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness

2. Colossians 1:21-23 – holy and blameless, if you continue in the faith"

3. The race of faith: the example of Paul

4. Hebrews 12:22-25: "we shall not escape if we turn away from Him"

5. Hebrews 4:1-3, 9-12: "strive to enter the rest of God"

6.Hebrews 6:4-9 – those who became partakers of the holy spirit and fell away

7. Hebrews 10:23-29, 35-39: "if we sin willfully", "if anyone draws back".

8. Matthew 24:13: He that endures to the end, the same shall be saved

9. Hebrews 3:4-6: Holding fast our confidence firm until the end

10. Matthew 24:13: "But the one who endures to the end will be saved"

11. 1 John 2:24-25 – "if what you heard from the beginning abides in you"

12. 2 John 8-9 : to "everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ

13. 2 Peter 1:5-11 : "Make every effort to supplement your faith"

14. Philippians 2:12-16: "work out your salvation with fear and trembling"

15. 1 Timothy 6:10-16: the love of money

16. Galatians 5:2-4 "Severed from Christ"

17. 2 Timothy 2:11-13: "if we deny him, he will also deny us"

18. James 5:19-20: the wandered brother

19. Some will abandon the faith

20. 1 Timothy 5:8: "he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever"

22. The real family of Jesus: "Those who hear the Word of God and do it"

23. 1 Corinthians 5:5: "so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord"

24. Peter 2: "It would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness"

25. Jude: "Turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness" - a much relevant warning

26. 1 Cor. 9:27 ....Lest I myself might become a castaway

Romans 1:5
By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:
(Must remain obedient)




Romans 13:11
And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

So salvation by “faith alone” is completely false and impossible!

 

[theefaith]

Paul wrote half of the New Testament. The majority of the Book of Acts is about the missionary work of Paul, and he says that water baptism is not required for salvation as it is not part of the Gospel Message. very clear

is Paul you’re savior?

mk 16:16

so all you need is faith?
We’re you save the first moment you believed?

 

[Rich R]

Mmm…i mostly disagree, or at least partially disagree. Among ourselves, we are absolutely to speak against doctrines of men or demons that harm us. We absolutely can judge that but without pronouncing upon a person what their eternal fate will be. That we don’t dare do. We can’t see the future.

But until our flesh is put under our feet, it can still be manipulated, making us ineffective and even pulling us up into a lack of humility, which is why you can’t put new believers in charge or they could be harmed and do harm through their flesh which can still be manipulated.

But as to trampling the precious blood underfoot and treating our Lord as if He is just a bull to cover sins and nothing more, we absolutely must speak. But until we can do so without our flesh rising up, we are ineffective.

Good points. Technically, whether or not we judge is really not the issue. It's how we are to judge that matters.

John 7:24,

Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.
​

Of course this verse, like all verses, has a context which must be considered. In John it is talking about Jesus healing on the Sabbath. That was a big problem for the Pharisees. They simply judged by what they saw without regard to Jesus' heart and purpose in healing on the Sabbath. The fact he told them to judge righteously indicates they can judge. They just have to do it the right way.

However, as you said, when it comes to judging who is righteous, i.e., who will inhabit the new earth to come, and who doesn't will be Jesus' call, not ours. That's another matter altogether than judging things in this present life.