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Featured True Trinity.

Discussion in 'Christian Theology Forum' started by justbyfaith, Jan 4, 2020.

  1. JustAskin

    JustAskin Member

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    No! Jesus’ throne is that of his forefather, King David... it says so in scriptures.
    I think Isaiah 6:9 is relevant to my response to you:
    • “9 And he said, Go, and tell this people, Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not.”
    So, here I AM telling you’s people, as I was instructed.
     
  2. Grailhunter

    Grailhunter Well-Known Member

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    No free lunch...I will not let you get away with talking in circles with me. You want to believe a lie that is fine.
    What we know we try to understand....Christ knew best..
    He is the Son and He knows the Father in heaven....and He knew that He was greater.
    Yahweh is God the Father...Yeshua is God the Son...the Son of a Father and the Holy Spirit is also a God.
    When talking to His Father He used terms like "us" "we" and defined the Father's will and His will.
    In the Gospels Christ the Son talked to God the Father and asked Him questions.
    At times Christ indicated that the Father knew things that He did not.
    At times Christ indicated that some things were up to the Father.
    The concept of the Son sitting on a throne in Heaven on the right hand of the Father is well defined.
    The "My Father" verses number around 50.
    Came from the Father and went to the Father.
    No part of the storyline or Christ words indicate "one" person. A unity He describes....a unity that we will all achieve.
    But the Trinity is not going to become the Trillionunity.
    The storyline makes it clear you just have to pay attention.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2020
  3. Preacher4Truth

    Preacher4Truth Well-Known Member

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    LOL!!! "No!"

    Look at how you skipped right over John 12:41. John clearly shows that Christ is the YHWH of Isaiah.

    You need to take a real close look at John 8:24 and who it is that has you on your agenda to dethrone YHWH. You do not believe that he is I Am.

    You are ate up with attacking the eternal Christ who is in fact YHWH God.
     
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  4. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Certified Flunky

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    Ummm hmmmmmmm! :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
     
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  5. JustAskin

    JustAskin Member

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    I believe Jesus and the Scriptures (where they have not been corrupted or added to by desperate trinitarian translators). Free lunch: Jesus told the apostles that the Holy Spirit:
    • ‘will take of what is mine and give it to you!’
    What does this say about the Holy Spirit if it is Almighty God and yet lacking in fullness?
    And concerning HIS God:
    • ‘My Father has put everything into my hands’
    • ‘They were your and you gave them to me..’
    • ‘I don’t speak on my own authority. The Father who sent me has commanded me what to say and how to say it.’
    • ‘Jesus answered, "My teaching is not my own. It comes from the one who sent me.“‘
    So, your God-Jesus (and what does being ‘God’ mean?) RECEIVES from GOD (whom you say he is!!!?) what he does not have and does not know (can GOD ever be deficient? Can God ever be ignorant?).

    And your God-Holy/Spirit petson RECEIVES from Jesus what it doesn’t have.

    Is this your serious definition of three persons who are the SAME one PERSON: ALMIGHTY GOD...? How are Jesus and the Holy Spirit ‘ALL MIGHTY’ if they both receive from a GREATER SOURCE, who you say IS that SAME PERSON?
    Christ knew what the Almighty God, the Father, taught him. And what was taught to him compounds common sense and righteousness. In Jesus’ endeavour to please his God, and Father, he always did what was righteous in HIS (the Father’s) sight:
    • “For the Father loves the Son and shows him all he does. Yes, and he will show him even greater works than these, so that you will be amazed.” (John 5:20)
    • “And the one who sent me is with me—he has not deserted me. For I always do what pleases him.” (John 8:29)
    God said about the Son: “You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions by anointing you with the oil of joy." (How is Jesus set above his companions BY GOD if Jesus IS ALREADY ALMIGHTY GOD?)​
    This is absolutely true.
    This is false (but obviously a Son has a Father... but like I keep showing you, in scriptures, and in holy righteousness, a TRUE SON is:
    • ‘Anyone who does the works of the one who have him the work [The Father of the work, the assigner of the work].
    • A ‘Son’ does exactly what he is shown, taught, and directed to do WITH HOLY RIGHTEOUSNESS... this is a TRUE SON
    • ONESIMUS (Philemon 1) illustrates this ‘Sonship’ with Paul adopting Onesimus as HIS SON BECAUSE Onesimus dutifully, righteously, and fully, carried out all the works Paul (in jail in chains) showed him, instructed him, taught him, sent him, to do
    • Jesus: ‘I only said I was the Son of God... if I am NOT doing the works of my Father (God) then do not believe me’
    • Scriptures says: ‘All who follow (do the works) of the Spirit, ARE CHILDREN OF GOD’
    These are all true and point to a subservient, obedient, and dutiful servant and Son (as defined above). Were you presenting these things as proof of a trinity and, that in your trinity that is completely equal, the Son is NOT EQUAL... oh boy!!
    The Son sits IN PLACE of the Father ONLY for a PERIOD OF TIME (See illustration of Joseph in Egypt sitting AS PHAROAH overseeing the great famine
    • ‘[Whilst you oversee the famine]..you are pharoah in all aspect EXCEPT FOR MY THRONE.
    • From God to Jesus: [whilst bringing the world to rights:] ‘I give you my POWER AND AUTHORITY (Holy Spirit) to oversee the spiritual famine (Set the world to rights) in all aspect except my throne: are we not in a Spiritual famine right now with Jesus sitting ‘as God’.
    But I notice You didn’t present evidence of your case for Jesus sitting on HIS OWN THRONE... I know why you didn’t!!!
    The throne Jesus FINALLY claims as HIS OWN for eternity, is the Throne of DAVID. Quote me a verse that states this, please!
    I think you are posting to the wrong person. I have no idea what you are referring to concerning ‘one’ person. If I take the crumbs of your rhetoric, yes, Jesus is in UNION with the Father... there is nothing there that you say that is teaching me / it says so absolutely in the scriptures from Jesus’ own mouth:
    • ‘I and the Father, are [in full union]’
    • ‘I am in him and he is in me’
    • ’My bread is to do the Will of the Father’
    So what exactly did you say you were saying to me? And explain it using Scriptures, please!
     
  6. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

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    Don't mean to interrupt your conversation, but I'm curious about this question made from Hebrews 1:9
    this is intresting, not Hebrews 1:9, but the question. "How is Jesus set above his companions BY GOD if Jesus IS ALREADY ALMIGHTY GOD?". this is intresting, because, Hebrews 1:8 states, "But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom". here the definite article is used, siginifying the one true and living God, who is ALMIGHTY.

    Matthew 1:21 "And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins. verse 22 "Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, verse 23 "Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

    John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God

    EITHER ONE HAVE TWO GODS WHICH IS POLYTHEISM AT IT’S BEST, OR THIS IS THE ONE TRUE AND LIVING GOD, THE FATHER AND THE SON, THE SAME PERSON.

    so I would like to know how is the Father and the Son seperate and distinct person, when both is the same almighty one?. if not then as said one have two separate and distinct gods, because of their each status as "GOD".

    PICJAG.
     
  7. Grailhunter

    Grailhunter Well-Known Member

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    I can only hope your mind does not work like you write.
    As far a the throne question. Hebrews 8:1 and 12:12

    I think you are posting to the wrong person. I have no idea what you are referring to concerning ‘one’ person. If I take the crumbs of your rhetoric, yes, Jesus is in UNION with the Father... there is nothing there that you say that is teaching me / it says so absolutely in the scriptures from Jesus’ own mouth:
    • ‘I and the Father, are [in full union]’
    • ‘I am in him and he is in me’
    • ’My bread is to do the Will of the Father’
    Everything in the Gospels...what is said and what is done points to a union, not one person.
    The word "one" is used and so is the dozens of scriptures that point to more than one God. The one concept of the unity in not the number one.....it is unity. You can pick a side and quote just the "one" scriptures and ignore the dozen of scripture that read of two people talking to each other, two wills, and from two places etc Or you can take all of it into consideration....two Gods...Father and Son....God so loved the world that He... gave..... His only... begotten... Son...
    How many words in that one scriptures proves more than one person?

    Then you have the Holy Spirit.
     
  8. JustAskin

    JustAskin Member

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    Hello 101G, there is nothing curious about the answer. And that answer is that Trinitarians have got their knickers in a twist over every claimed trinity belief. No jestering: Fact!!

    Verse 8 DOES NOT call Jesus ‘Almighty God’. It’s as simple as that.

    Ask yourself WHO is speaking of WHOM?

    Is it not the ALMIGHTY FATHER who is speaking ABOUT the Son?

    And do we not / should we not, agree that Jesus IS TO ACQUIRE the throne of his for father, King David?

    Do you disagree? Say why?

    So, do we not know that this ‘throne of David’ is his in perpetuity, forever, eternally... and that Jesus Christ will rule in all righteousness in HIS KINGDOM?

    And, what KINGDOM is this that Jesus Christ is to rule over?

    Well, there is the kingdom of Heaven... and the kingdom of earth (Mankind - Creation - not ‘planet EARTH’)

    But ALMIGHTY GOD, the Father, rules over BOTH KINGDOMS already...

    But if the trinity Jesus is true then Jesus ALSO ALREADY rules over both Heaven and earth.

    But here we see Jesus ACQUIRING the throne of the kingdom of Creation... which he already rules over...

    And, in acquiring the rulership, he is ruling over a LESSER kingdom than that of what his Father STILL RULES OVER: Heaven?

    So, proof by contradiction: Jesus cannot be God because he is BROUGHT UP IN POWER ABOVE HIS COMPANIONS TO BE REWARDED WITH THR THRONE OF KING DAVID!!

    Anything else points to Jesus being DEMOTED to earthly rulership from his trinity high DESPITE his great sacrifice (and indeed, what LOSS can ALMIGHTY GOD suffer seeing he owns EVERYTHING - ALWAYS!

    101G, I think Trinitarians need to STOP looking at the word, ‘GOD’, thinking its is a SINGULARLY PERSONAL NAME. It is not... it is a TITLE which VARIOUSLY means different things in different places in different CONTEXT.

    The Greek from which verse 8 is taken DOES NOT SAY, ‘O God’. It simply says, ‘GOD’... Who ADDED the One in there? Why?

    I have written about this before but obviously you didn’t get to read it. Why WOULD God, the Father, be telling Jesus that he WILL rule HIS OWN KINGDOM if Jesus is Almighty God who rules the great kingdom of Heaven. Earth is a limited, physical dimensioned kingdom in contrast to the unlimited spirit kingdom of Heaven.
     
  9. JustAskin

    JustAskin Member

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    Im happy that it does, thank you. I can write and have written about the purpose and point of Jesus Christ. I ask Trinitarians in this forum to profile what Jesus is about and what his final aim is, but none of you have answered.

    It is very simple:
    - God, a Spirit, creates a physical world with Fish, animals, and other creatures and everything is rosey-cosey

    - God creates a creature (‘Man’) that is a physical image of himself to rule over the animals

    - The first created physical Being is given a personal name that is also a title of his species of creature: ‘Adam’ (Hebrew for Man). It kinda just works, doesn’t it!!

    - Adam is initially totally dedicated to following his Father (‘Creator’) and Master (‘Lord’) making him the very definition of a SON OF GOD (Luke 3:38). But Adam sins and loses his position as Son of God. God is unhappy and decides mankind should be destroyed but changes his mind when he finds at least one man who is Holy in his sight. God wipes out all humans but this man and his family

    - But this salvation comes with a price: That a fully wholly and totally unblemished human should die in sacred sacrifice for the sin that Adam, the first man, brought to the world: Mankind will still die, in SPIRIT, unless such a sacred sacrifice is carried out. The seriousness of this act is to be played out using a meek and unblemished LAMB as the sacrificial offering. In addition, a ceremonial touching of a goat is to be used to act as a ‘Washing Away of a persons sin’ - a ‘Scape Goat’, a Baptism. The goat is loosed into the wilderness where it dies - carrying, symbolically, the sins of those who touched it

    - Throughout the ages of the Hebrews / Israelite / Jews, the Almighty sought such an ‘Unblemished Lamb’ and/or ‘Scape Goat’ bug none was found. Thd nearest was the man, David, wherein God said, ‘I have found my David’.. but David later went on to sin.

    - But God had said that [the] Satan who caused Adam to sin, would be destroyed by one from mankind (The Seed of a Woman... you might have expected here to say, ‘Seed of a man’. But the prior saying is absolutely necessary - see the point of ‘Mary’ later!)

    - God gave time but no one was found. So God created a SECOND ‘ADAM’... No other ‘Adam’ is ever to be created so this second Adam is also the ‘LAST ADAM’. And why? Because Adam was created, not from the seed of Male parent but by the power of the Holy Spirit of God

    - So, ‘in the fullness of time’, God put into motion the creation of this LAST ADAM. Mary, a virgin of Godly devotion was chosen as the vessel with the SEED which was ENLIVENED by the Holy Spirit (Remember that God blew the breath into the INERT BODY of the first Adam to ENLIVEN it : ‘And the Man BECAME a LIVING SOUL.) So also, the inert seed of Mary:
    • ‘The Holy Spirit shall overshadow you and the child to be born WILL BE HOLY, and SHALL BE CALLED The Son of the most high [God]’
    You duly note that the title, Son of the God most high, is emphatic FUTURE (‘Shall be’).

    - This child, an unblemished snd Holy human Being, is given the name, ‘Jesus’, which is only our English name, because it is really, ‘Joshua’ (but that’s a whole other story) but BOTH NAMES mean, ‘Saviour of his people’ (‘For he shall save his people’)


    - Jesus lives an exemplary life with his ‘parents’ until ‘his time’ is reached whereupon he seeks out his cousin, John the Baptist. You know John...

    - Jesus is BAPTISED WITH WATER by John

    - Almighty God, the Father, then thunders from Heaven to heap praises and Honor on this man, Jesus: ‘This is my Son in whom I am well pleased’, enthuses God...

    - God then ANOINTS (a SETTING ASIDE) Jesus with HIS HOLY SPIRIT to symbolise his future roll as KING over Creation and also HIGH PRIEST to GOD. Prrsons of worthy note we’re always anointed with special concoction of oils held and used only by a prophet of God as this setting aside for offices as Priests and kings so the Jews should have been well acquainted with this action. The fact that Jesus’ anointment was with the holiest of ‘oils’, the oil of gladness, should have alerted them to the prophecy of the coming Saviour

    (e.o.p1)
     
  10. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

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    First thanks for the reply, ans second, we know that the trinity is in a pickle, but we must not get ourselves off track and miis the teaching of the Christ himself.
    Without getting in any argument, I would like for you to tell with this verse means to you.

    Isaiah 63:5 "And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was none to uphold: therefore mine own arm brought salvation unto me; and my fury, it upheld me".

    just a basic question, "Who is God's ..... "OWN" ARM?

    PICJAG.
     
  11. Grailhunter

    Grailhunter Well-Known Member

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    Thank you, a lot more coherent.
    Just as a fun fact...the letter "J" and it various pronunciations first came to be 1400 years after Christ and did not come into common use until several years after the first King James Version was produced. Which means that the first King James Version did not contain any "J's" The "J" slam occurred in the King James Version where the names of all persons, places, and things that started with a "Y" were replaced with a "J". This occurred in the Old and New Testament and amounted to around 30,000 alterations to the scriptures. Since there is only one name that can be called upon for salvation, this is a significant point. Power in the name of God the Father....Power in the name of God the Son....the Holy Spirit was not given a name....so that is a different story.

    Your focus, definitions, and concepts regarding "Kingdom" "Son" "Adam" and the spelling of "Saviour" and your focus on the Old Testament....would lead me to believe you are some form of English Jehovah's witness with a little Anglican influence.
    And another funny....David was no unblemished lamb by any definition.

    The concept of the Scapegoat had nothing to do with Christ. Further, no action or blood of any animal has ever forgiven sins.

    And you have not explained your beliefs as to why God begot His only Son...what was His mission?
     
  12. JustAskin

    JustAskin Member

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    (s.o.p2)
    - Jesus is now EMPOWERED by the Holy Spirit anointing to do ‘Good’... (Things called ‘Miracles’). But this is a huge responsibility - could he handle it. God tested him by allowing him to be tempted by [the] Satan.

    - Jesus passes the temptation with flying colours - it’s hard to illustrate the enormous pressure Jesus was under during the temptation:
    • He was STARVING - 40 days without food or water - it would be easy to just ‘magic up’ some food, wouldn’t it?
    • He was told to show off that God would save him if he was to fall from a height by the Father’s angels (Why are the angels a property of the Father, only!?). Jesus resisted the chance to blag!!
    • Finally, Satan showed him all the kingdoms of the world (all of creation - in vision) and that if he, Jesus, bowed down and worshipped Satan then Satan would give it to him, ‘it is mine to give to whom I will’, states Satan. Now Jesus AND Satan knew that Jesus would have to suffer greatly and be spat upon and humiliated, and finally DIE despite being a wholly, holy, and sinless, exemplary life dedicated to almighty God. Why should you go through all that just to acquire the kingdoms of the world when Satan can give it to him right now - what a ‘small price’ it would be to pay. No! Jesus resisted the ‘Easy way’...
    • Thus, Jesus proved he was worthy and able to put his feelings last and do the right thing: ‘You love justice and hated injustice...’ thus Almighty God promised that Jesus will indeed rule over creation and that rulership will be an everlasting rulership... the words properly translated mean:
      • ‘Thy MIGHTY throne is for ever and ever...’. The word, ‘God’ is also a meaning for ‘MIGHTY’ as when God called holy men who received his word, ‘Gods’... they were MIGHTY MEN OF POWER AND AUTHORITY invested in by THE Almighty God (Almighty God being ’God of all whom are called Gods’ ... ‘The Almighty God is MIGHTIER than all those who are called MIGHTY
    • Jesus went about doing good and spreading the word his Father taught him by way of the Torah, the Priests, scribes, holy men, etc as to what he should say and do to accomplice what God has in mind for him...and fulfil the prophecies ‘This was done to ...’.
    • Jesus heaped the sick (it’s not magic nor miraculous to us but in those times many healings etc literally were unheard of and thus came aCross as magical to them. Jesus told them that the miracles were a result of his FAITH in his Father through the Holy Spirit. And, that, if they had faith enough then THEY TOO COULD DO THE SAME.. but they didn’t!
    • Because the ‘Harvest’ of disciples was growing beyond the capacity Jesus, a man, could deal with, it was necessary that an all invasive and pervasive advocate to come. This advocate, was sent by the Father, it is HIS HOLY SPIRIT.
    • After Jesus’ death and resurrection, Jesus was MADE IMMORTAL BY GOD and could thus perform unheard of acts such as appearing in different places instantly (or so!) An immortal body does not conform to the same physical laws as a mortal body.
    • Jesus told his disciples that they too WOULD be ANOINTED with Holy Spirit FROM THE Father... they are to wait in Jerusalem for this anointing (Setting aside for priesthood - but not kingship!) each according to capacity of holiness (no one bar Jesus receives the full measure!!
      • ‘For the Father was pleased that [the Son] should receive the fullness [of the Holy Spirit]’
      • The Holy Spirit appeared as thunder and spears of lightening and anointed each and every on in the upper room, as much as each was able to endure...
    • 40 days after being resurrected, Jesus is taken up to heaven to sit at the side of his GOD and FATHER. The right hand seat of the King is reserved for the guest of Honor... David sat at the right hand of king Saul after gaining prolific victory against the philistines. Being seated at the right hand of the king does not make that right hand person, ‘King’ also!
    • However, God GAVE HIS POWER AND AUTHORITY to Jesus to set the world to rights - and, having done so, to JUDGE the world and select out of them ones to become his subjects for eternity as he rules over creation
    • Creation, what greater praise, glory, and Honor it is to be seated as KING OVER CREATION for one from humankind. Yes, the glorious deed of the LAST ADAM, the ONLY completely HOLY AND SINLESS man of humanity... totally dedicated to the service of his GOD AND FATHER, a perfect ‘Servant of God’ (Isaiah 42:1)
    • Satan is defeated... death is thrown into the everlasting fire. Mankind lives eternally if they are judged worthy and ‘Given life’ by Jesus Christ...
    • ‘Given eternal life’... To give life is what ’Father’ means... so, Jesus giving these ‘LIFE ETERNAL’ makes Jesus, as the prophecy in Isaiah states: the ”ETERNAL FATHER”
    You are cross-threading me with someone else. I have every idea about what the meanings of ‘One’ and ‘One’ mean in their contexts. I have outlined this already but you lay a trap to draw me into agreeing something you WANT ME TO CLAIM I SAID.... nooo!

    Almighty God is ‘One God’... no!!!
    Almighty God is the ‘ONLY GOD’.

    There is no such meaning even in English or any language where ‘One person’ is referred to as ‘One Person’.... Why would you say that:
    • DONALD Trump is ONE AMERICAN PRESIDENT
    • ELIZABETH Windsor is ONE British Monarch
    • JESUS Christ is ONE Lord
    • God, our God, is ONE GOD
    No... you say:
    • DONALD Trump is the ONLY PRESIDENT (of the United States)
    • ELIZABETH Windsor is the ONLY British Monarch
    • JESUS Christ is our ONLY Lord*
    • God, our God, is our ONLY GOD
    *Why do Trinitarians have such a massive Hang up about the word, ‘Lord’... does not Scriptures tell us that there are many ‘Lords’. It nothing special in relationship to Almighty God.
    In the Torah, Almighty God is BOTH our only ‘God’ AND our only ‘Lord’. But since ALMIGHTY GOD invested SALVATION in his Son, Jesus is NOW OUR LORD AND SAVIOUR.

    Jesus, is NOW our Only Lord - and Almighty REMAINS the Almighty GOD.
     
  13. JustAskin

    JustAskin Member

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    You have a profession attitude to saying what another person did not say...

    And I have stated over and over about the ’Begetting of Jesus, the Son’:
    • ‘Son’ means, ‘He who does the works of the Father’ and, yes, ‘the offspring of a Father’
    • ‘Begetting’ means ‘a taking up as a possession, an adoption, and, yes, to bring into being [birth]’
    So examine which meaning is true for a contextual setting:
    - The Almighty God does not PROCREATE so an ‘offspring’ in Spirit is out of the question.
    - The Almighty God CREATES... He CREATED his Holy Angels who do his Will: Spirit ‘SONS’.
    Mankind PROCREATES so his OFFSPRINGS are Sons in the Flesh... BUT a man with a Son who is wayward and objectionable is often referred to as ‘Not being [my] Son’ - ‘You are NOT MY SON because you do not do as I instructed you - you do not do my works!’ So even today, even we use the term, ‘My son is one who does my will - my works’:
    - ‘Hey, that kid from the village is just like me - he does like me and says like me - He’s like a Son to me’.
    Paul, in chains in prison, BEGOT the runaway slave, Onesimus... no female involved... the ‘begetting’ is an adoption of Onesimus as Paul’s son because he did all and everything Paul instructed him to do...
    Jesus Christ was spoken of this by Almighty God:
    - ‘This day I HAVE BECOME to YOU, A Father, and YOU HAVE BECOME to me, A SON’

    God did not procreate a Son: God is Spirit... the human Son is Flesh. the statement above is an ADOPTION STATEMENT, spoken concerning him BY ALMIGHTY GOD. Why would GOD adopt HIMSELF (as you say Jesus is GOD!)
     
  14. Grailhunter

    Grailhunter Well-Known Member

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    Oh no...not pulling you in or on.
    The term Almighty is debatable, but I side with God the Father.
    Now we can go through the scriptures that indicate that everything was turned over and a attributed to Christ.
    Almighty? Alpha and Omega? Creation attributed to Christ. Judgement turned over to Christ. All authority turned over to Christ.... In their attempt to nail down the belief that Christ was a God they really left nothing for God the Father, except to be a janitor sweeping the halls of Heaven. This all lands in the lap of the Ecumenical Councils and they ruled one God. So nothing can be contributed to any one God and all three did everything....Which lead to the belief that if it does not make sense...it proves it is of God.

    Although I believe that Yeshua is a full-fledged God, I believe God the Father is Supreme overall and the Three members have equal authority over us. That is why Christ said that, The Father is greater than I. Now this means that there are scriptures that I do not believe. Most are not going to have the guts to say that....it is the absurd that I reject. I do not believe you have to hate your mother and father and pretty much everyone else to be a disciple of Christ. I do not believe you have to give away everything you own and live a bohemian life style to be a Good Christian. I do not believe if you divorce and remarry that you commit adultery. Goats and Sheep parable...I am firm believer in Good Deeds, and that they have an "affect" on your heavenly reward....But Good Deeds do not save you or get you to Heaven nor does the lack of them, send you to Hell. I am not a Jew, so most of the Old Testament is history to me. No Old Testament Laws in the New Covenant.

    I fellowship with many denominations so I am not denominational. My question is what denomination are you? If any?

    I believe the Trinity is three Gods that are united in a divine way, and that is the end of what words can describe.
    The exact description of the construct is beyond words or human visualization or comprehension.
     
  15. Grailhunter

    Grailhunter Well-Known Member

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    The Almighty God does not PROCREATE so an ‘offspring’ in Spirit is out of the question.
    What does "Son" "begotten" and "conceive" and then putting it in motion so those term are not taken out of context....a woman was impregnated and a child was born....in words and in effect...the truth is demonstrated. The definitions of these words are well established in the Old and New Testament. God is not a liar. He does not twist the words. He describes things in a way that we can relate to, and understand. He could have just as easily said, And I caused Mary to be pregnant. And Christ would be known as the spiritual Son of God. Only the involvement of God's Spirit...the miraculous Son of God. The process you believe has no meaning...because if that was what it was, there was no sense of sacrifice. It would not take the love of God, because he could have zapped a million women and had a million Messiahs. No loss! Not the real Son of God....a miraculous manifestation.

    Begetting’ means ‘a taking up as a possession, an adoption, and, yes, to bring into being [birth]’

    Your definition for the word "begot" is absolutely wrong! And begetting is the same thing. Yes we are adopted sons and daughters of Christ....but Christ was not an adopted Son of God. He is the true Son of God. Christ did the will of the Father but He was not a Son because He did the will of the Father....He is the Son of God that does the will of God the Father.

    God did not procreate a Son: God is Spirit... the human Son is Flesh. the statement above is an ADOPTION STATEMENT, spoken concerning him BY ALMIGHTY GOD. Why would GOD adopt HIMSELF

    Any member of the Trinity can manifest in the flesh, even angels and even physical...You put limits on God's power. Do you want examples of God and angels becoming physical...wrestling....impregnating...walking...you tell me.
     
  16. JustAskin

    JustAskin Member

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    Grailhunter, I am NOT of any labelled denomination. There is no ‘BOX’ that you can put me in except the one that say, ‘Truth Speaker’.

    Jesus Christ is a MAN CONSECRATED BY ALMIGHTY GOD... this is stated in the scriptures and underlined by the ACT:
    • ‘From Heaven came a voice saying, ‘This is my son in whom I am well pleased’ and we saw the Holy Spirit come down on him as like a dove (a light glittering breeze)
    This is Jesus’ anointing with the ‘oil of gladness’ - the Holy Spirit OF GOD.

    Do you dispute that the Holy Spirit is a POSSESSION of the Father, the possession of Almighty God?

    Well, you know that word, ‘of’? What does it mean?
    Answer me this (three premises):
    1. The Son is the ‘Son of God’
    2. The Holy Spirit is the ‘Spirit of God’
    3. The Father is the ‘???...’ of God’?
    Please explain premise 3.

    Why can you not answer premise 3? Why is it nonsense?

    The term, ‘Son’... what is with you guys?

    Jesus virtually ALWAYS speaks in a spiritual manner. He constantly seeks the spiritual mindset. The Angel told Mary that her son to be born will be HOLY and SHALL BE called, ‘Son of the God most high’. UNLESS YOU ARE PAGAN you know there is no such thing as a ‘SON-GOD’.

    Yet this is EXACTLY what trinity teaches: That Jesus Christ is a HYBRID - a hybrid ‘God’... a hybrid ‘Human’...

    Now think carefully and you will see huge problems and ungodly ideologies in such thinking:
    • How does Jesus know when to be MAN and when to be ‘GOD’?
    • How can he NOT KNOW things and BE UNSULLIED ‘GOD’... that CERTAINLY IS a SULLIED GOD if he cannot know what he DOES KNOW!
    • How did he Die... GOD CANNOT DIE and therefore all that is written in the Scriptures, by trinity thinking, is then totally FAKE (I.e. that Jesus DID NOT DIE! So why do they celebrate Easter?)
    • Why does Jesus sit NEXT TO GOD if he IS GOD?
    • Why is Jesus GIVEN power and authority if he IS GOD...!?
    • Why does Jesus GIVE that power BACK TO GOD if he is God?
    • Why does Jesus take the seat of a human king if he is almighty God King, king of heaven?
    • What does the Holy Spirit rule over - where is ITS throne - absolutely no scriptures ever shows the Holy Spirit (a possession of the God, the power of a God, having a seat of power, a throne, nor ever seated on a throne.
    • Why does the Holy Spirit ‘Take of what is Jesus’ own when trinity says it is almighty God. And worse, what Jesus HAS was GIVEN to him BY the Almighty, the Father?
    • Adam, and the Last Adam, what are the significant points concerning these two persons?(Hint: they were both brought into life, not by the seed of man but by the power of the Holy Spirit OF GOD! And, for at least a while, the first Adam was ‘Son of God’ but no Trinitarians ever says that Adam WAS GOD.. Is that strange?
    Is there a chance you can answer these question?
     
  17. Grailhunter

    Grailhunter Well-Known Member

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    There is no ‘BOX’ that you can put me in except the one that say, ‘Truth Speaker’.

    No intent to put you in a box.

    Do you dispute that the Holy Spirit is a POSSESSION of the Father, the possession of Almighty God?

    Yes I do. The Holy Spirit is a God and Christ and the Holy Spirit are under the authority of the God the Father. But no possession. God the Father has a Holy Spirit....Christ the Son has a Holy Spirit.....The Holy Spirit has a Holy Spirit. Most of the confusion is because they were never told the name of the Holy Spirit.

    Now...I know what I need to know about you....God Bless.
     
  18. JustAskin

    JustAskin Member

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    The Holy Spirit does not have a name because of is just that, the Spirit of God, of the Father.

    The connector, ‘Of’, makes it patently clear that it is a ‘possessive’ word.

    Thus, ‘Father of Jesus’ tells us that ‘Jesus’ is ‘a possession’ of the Father... ’belonging to’, the Father.

    Is there another way of viewing / understanding this term?

    And you devise a new scripture: Where in any scriptures is there any reference to:
    • Jesus having a ‘HOLY’ Spirit?
    • The Holy Spirit having a ‘HOLY SPIRIT’?
    Please show a chapter & verse, as I have never read such a thing in the Scriptures at any time. But do not try to confuse me by saying that:
    • ‘EACH HAS A SPIRIT THAT IS HOLY’
    Jesus has a Spirit, yes! It is the SAME for all mankind. The body of him is composed of thd dust of the earth just like any human Being. It is ‘dead’, inert, unenlivened... until a Spirit is put into it to enliven it... that Spirit contains the will and desires to maintain the body that it is in, to keep it from harm, to seek out necessary nourishment for it, to beautify and adorn it, etc. If the spirit leaves it’s body then we observe a ‘DEAD BODY’, but if the spirit LOSES CONTROL of the body, we call it ’A Coma’... the Spirit is still in the body but if no longer enlivens it FULLY. This is the state that Jesus found the young girl and told the fearfilled parents, ‘She is not dead. She is only sleeping!’.

    The Holy Spirit IS SPIRIT... Spirit does not have Spirit.

    The Father IS SPIRIT : GOD is SPIRIT. Thus is not the same as a Sentient Spirit.
    The meaning here is that the Father is not a physical Being. He is not something seen with fleshly eyes. He is not contained by any vessel or container. He is unrestricted in his BEING...
    The Holy Angels are Spirit, but restricted in power and authority. They are sentient but under a system of orders to seek to do the Will of their creator: God, the Father, their Father.
    God instructs then, commands them, sends them, in the pursuit of HIS Will. They obey and remain ‘seeing his face’ (Spiritually) as long as they continue to do his Will.

    Jesus is a human Being. His Spirit is CONTAINED, RESTRAINED by the physical body it is put in. It is more powerful than we know and are generally allowed to use it. Thus is why Jesus tells us that if we had faith we could do greater things than we think we can do. But we are WEAK in FAITH and let our bodies fail us constantly. When we have FAITH (as much even as a mustard seed) then we have access to the HOLY SPIRIT OF THE FATHER, which, if we are fully sincere, will empower our own spirit to act. We currently STILL do not have enough godly Faith to gain access to the Holy Spirit of the Father.

    But, you need not believe what I say... the Scriptures tells you what I say - believe that!

    And, please, show me where you found the verses saying that Jesus has a Holy Spirit and the Holy Spirit has a Holy Spirit... I’m intrigued!!
     
  19. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    satan's dialectic, huh?
    brutal lol
     
  20. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    hey, look what i found!
     
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