True Trinity.

[Cooper]

Ummm... JESUS did not make any of those claims...

It is the trinitarian translators who altered the scriptures, and the Catholic Church under the orders and directives of Emperor Constantine, who made those claims.

In the verse claiming Jesus created all things, it is clear and obvious that the words were altered.

It makes NO SENSE for THE SON to be the creator of the greatest event when the definition of ‘Father’ are (ones of) exactly:

• ‘He who CREATES’
• ‘He who brings into being’
• ‘He that gives life to’

Also, it turns common sense on its head. The Father creates something FOR THE SON... the weirdly worded verse implies that the son made the world FOR HIMSELF...

Yet elsewhere, because alterations of the scriptures cannot go unnoticed, God has put in place facilities to detect and rectify attempts to bring errors and misinterpretations to his word given to us through his son, and his other servants, the disciples and apostles.

And, in fact, even the Catholic Church states that the Father is the creator... so EVEN THEY recognised the scriptural alteration - a MASSIVE ATTEMPT to destroy the integrity of the scriptures.

I know you are just mucking about because you think it’s fun to post nonsense but truly, just in case anyone should believe your misconception:

• Jesus DID NOT MAKE ANY CLAIM to be creator
• Jesus DID NOT MAKE ANY CLAIM to be Almighty God
• Jesus did not claim to be even EQUAL TO GOD
• Jesus did not claim to be pre-existent

Thank goodness there is an ignore function. Goodbye,

 

[Preacher4Truth]

So now heretical @JustAskin says the Scriptures that teach Christ as creator were altered? Yep, he needs to be filed away.

 

[SovereignGrace]

So now heretical @JustAskin says the Scriptures that teach Christ as creator were altered? Yep, he needs to be filed away.

He has to to keep his anti-God agenda going on here.

 

[SovereignGrace]

So now heretical @JustAskin says the Scriptures that teach Christ as creator were altered? Yep, he needs to be filed away.

He’s banned now.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Thank goodness there is an ignore function. Goodbye,

He’s banned.

 

[justbyfaith]

@JustAskin @justbyfaith

Just asking this:
1. What is left for God the Father? If Christ is the creator God and everything has been turned over to Him, what is left for God the Father. Christ is Almighty, Christ is the judge, All authority has been turned over to Christ, He is Alpha and Omega? What is left for God the Father? Is God the Father just the janitor in Heaven....sweeping the aisles?

2. Then again, if the common formula for the Trinity is true, can we contribute any one authority or principle or act to anyone God?

3. One God? Who was crucified on the cross?

4. One God? Who begot? Who was begotten?

5. One God? Was Christ the Son of God before creation?

6. If so, should God the Father say Son of Myself? My only begotten self? I begot myself?

7. One God? Who was Christ talking to, when He was in the garden? Himself? Not my will be done, but your will. What does that mean?

8. Christ said, "the Father is greater than I" Was He saying that He was greater than Himself? Or not as great as Himself?

Yes, one God; and you would do well to believe that (James 2:19).

The Father inhabiteth eternity while the Son is on earth. The Spirit of Jesus is the Father.

The Son is distinct from the Father in that He dwells in human flesh. Same Spirit, though, that inhabits eternity and also dwells in human flesh.

It is not true that 1/3 of God came down and tabernacle among us; and neither is it true that a 2nd God came down.

It was all of God. And God is the Father. There is one God (James 2:19). There is one Lord (1 Corinthians 8:6, Ephesians 4:5). That Lord is Jesus Christ (1 Corinthians 12:3); and that Lord is the Father (Matthew 11:25, Luke 10:21). The one God is also Jesus Christ (Hebrews 1:8-9); not discounting that the Father is the only true God (John 17:3). In the latter verse, the word for "and" is "kai" which can be translated "even". As well as in 1 Corinthians 8:6, as the context that I have given bears this out (if anyone is willing to study the verses).

 

[Grailhunter]

Yes, one God; and you would do well to believe that (James 2:19).

The Father inhabiteth eternity while the Son is on earth. The Spirit of Jesus is the Father.

The Son is distinct from the Father in that He dwells in human flesh. Same Spirit, though, that inhabits eternity and also dwells in human flesh.

It is not true that 1/3 of God came down and tabernacle among us; and neither is it true that a 2nd God came down.

It was all of God. And God is the Father. There is one God (James 2:19). There is one Lord (1 Corinthians 8:6, Ephesians 4:5). That Lord is Jesus Christ (1 Corinthians 12:3); and that Lord is the Father (Matthew 11:25, Luke 10:21). The one God is also Jesus Christ (Hebrews 1:8-9); not discounting that the Father is the only true God (John 17:3). In the latter verse, the word for "and" is "kai" which can be translated "even". As well as in 1 Corinthians 8:6, as the context that I have given bears this out (if anyone is willing to study the verses).

I have already posted my explanation of the Trinity and I would say there is about a hundred scriptures that stand against what you are saying, not to mention the storyline.

 

[justbyfaith]

I have already posted my explanation of the Trinity and I would say there is about a hundred scriptures that stand against what you are saying, not to mention the storyline.

Lay those scriptures forth. This should be interesting.

 

[justbyfaith]

This is a very long post. A more concise summary thesis would probably be more effective, and then use the longer details for supporting information.

It is meant to be preaching, not a concise thesis or paper.

 

[Randy Kluth]

This one Lord is the God who created us,

This is confusing to me, and sounds like modalism. Are you saying the Father is Jesus? If so, you'r in an ancient heresy called Modalism.

Yes, both the Father and the Son are the one God. And both are Lord. Their distinction consists of different revelations issuing out of the mouth of the one God.

God can create a revelation of His own Being in the form of 3 distinct persons, one human. The Spirit appears to us in a limited way in the sense that He appears to be seen operating in local places. He does this because we ourselves are finite, and can only see God in limited ways. The Father appears as He is in His infinite Being, the source of all 3 of these revelations of His Being.

This is the best I've ever been able to come up with myself. I guess you're struggling with it too?

 

[justbyfaith]

This is confusing to me, and sounds like modalism. Are you saying the Father is Jesus? If so, you'r in an ancient heresy called Modalism.

Do you not believe that Jesus is God and that He created us?

Consider John 1:1-3, John 1:14.

Yes, there is one Lord (Ephesians 4:5, 1 Corinthians 8:6); and He is the Father (Matthew 11:25, Luke 10:21). However, no one can say that Jesus is the Lord except by the Spirit of truth (1 Corinthians 12:3).

Make your own conclusion. But don't neglect to read the scriptures that I have referenced; and to consider how they apply together.

1 Corinthians 2:13 (kjv) tells us that the Holy Spirit teaches us when we compare scripture to scripture. This is a biblical hermeneutic.

 

[justbyfaith]

This is confusing to me, and sounds like modalism. Are you saying the Father is Jesus? If so, you'r in an ancient heresy called Modalism.

Yes, both the Father and the Son are the one God. And both are Lord. Their distinction consists of different revelations issuing out of the mouth of the one God.

God can create a revelation of His own Being in the form of 3 distinct persons, one human. The Spirit appears to us in a limited way in the sense that He appears to be seen operating in local places. He does this because we ourselves are finite, and can only see God in limited ways. The Father appears as He is in His infinite Being, the source of all 3 of these revelations of His Being.

This is the best I've ever been able to come up with myself. I guess you're struggling with it too?

I have no struggle with my understanding of the Trinity; I feel that I understand it rather perfectly.

The distinction between the Father and the Son is in that the Father inhabits eternity (Isaiah 57:15) and the Son dwells in human flesh. The distinction between the Son and the Spirit is in that the Son is in flesh and the Holy Ghost is a Spirit.

Both the Father and the Holy Ghost are one Spirit (Ephesians 4:4, John 4:23-24, John 7:39). The distinction between them is in that the Holy Ghost has lived a perfect human life and therefore understands humanity (see Luke 23:46; John 4:23-24, John 14:7-11; you may have to think about how these passages apply).

Each member of the Godhead is the same Spirit, the same Lord, and the same God (1 Corinthians 12:4-6).

Consider that there is one Spirit (Ephesians 4:4): the Father (John 4:23-24), the Son (Colossians 1:27, 1 John 5:12) and the Holy Ghost (John 7:39, 2 Timothy 1:14).

There is one Lord (Ephesians 4:5): the Father (Matthew 11:25, Luke 10:21), the Son (1 Corinthians 8:6, 1 Corinthians 12:3), and the Holy Ghost (2 Corinthians 3:17).

There is one God (Ephesians 4:6, James 2:19): the Father (1 Corinthians 8:6 and others), the Son (Hebrews 1:8-9 and others), and the Holy Ghost (Acts of the Apostles 5:3-4).

This does not amount to nine members in the Trinity; however this information ought to color your understanding of Ephesians 4:4-6.

As it is written,

Tit 2:1, But speak thou the things which become sound doctrine:

 

[101G]

The distinction between the Father and the Son is in that the Father inhabits eternity (Isaiah 57:15) and the Son dwells in human flesh. The distinction between the Son and the Spirit is in that the Son is in flesh and the Holy Ghost is a Spirit.

Not saying that you're right or wrong, but consider this, 1 Timothy 6:11 "But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness."
1 Timothy 6:12 "Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses."
1 Timothy 6:13 "I give thee charge in the sight of God, who quickeneth all things, and before Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed a good confession;"
1 Timothy 6:14 "That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:"
1 Timothy 6:15 "Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;"
1 Timothy 6:16 "Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen."

if the Lord Jesus is the "ONLY" one who have immortality, which mean the ability to live forever; eternal life. if he is the ONLY ONE who has eternal life that contridict your statement if that's the distinction.

PICJAG.

 

[justbyfaith]

Not saying that you're right or wrong, but consider this, 1 Timothy 6:11 "But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness."
1 Timothy 6:12 "Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses."
1 Timothy 6:13 "I give thee charge in the sight of God, who quickeneth all things, and before Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed a good confession;"
1 Timothy 6:14 "That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:"
1 Timothy 6:15 "Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;"
1 Timothy 6:16 "Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen."

if the Lord Jesus is the "ONLY" one who have immortality, which mean the ability to live forever; eternal life. if he is the ONLY ONE who has eternal life that contridict your statement if that's the distinction.

PICJAG.

Hi @101G,

Do you agree or disagree that Jesus Christ is come in human flesh?

God is a Spirit, correct?

Is Jesus God in your opinion?

I believe that He is come in the flesh (1 John 4:1-3, 2 John 1:7)..

Same Spirit that inhabiteth eternity (Isaiah 57:15)

 

[101G]

Hi @101G,

Do you agree or disagree that Jesus Christ is come in human flesh?

God is a Spirit, correct?

Is Jesus God in your opinion?

I believe that He is come in the flesh (1 John 4:1-3, 2 John 1:7)..

Same Spirit that inhabiteth eternity (Isaiah 57:15)

First thanks for the reply, second, Jesus is the ONLY TRUE, God, and he shared himself in Flesh. and yes, God is a Spirit, who Jesus is the HOLY SPIRIT, not "SHARED" in flesh.

I see what you're getting at, but going about it the wrong way. see when you said, "believe that He is come in the flesh (1 John 4:1-3, 2 John 1:7)", this coming in flesh is the "EQUAL" share what Phil 2:6 speak about.

now back to you, do you agree that Jesus is the "ONLY" one with immortality yes or no?

your answer, then we will discuss.

PICJAG

 

[justbyfaith]

now back to you, do you agree that Jesus is the "ONLY" one with immortality yes or no?

Yes; and He is the same Spirit as Him who inhabiteth eternity.

1 x 1 x 1 = 1.

All three members of the Godhead are one and the same Spirit/Person.

Jesus released the Holy Ghost, who is the Father, John 4:23-24, John 14:7-11, back to the original Father in Luke 23:46. Because He who inhabiteth eternity cannot cease to inhabit eternity; even when He descends to become a Man.

 

[101G]

Yes; and He is the same Spirit as Him who inhabiteth eternity.

you said, "He is the same Spirit as Him who inhabiteth eternity", ERROR, he is him, not "as" him, but HIM. the only distinction is the "DIVERSITY" of his OWNSELF, listen, John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

see that "with", seem like two as in your, "AS" him, again no, it's him, let's see it by the scriptures, follow the scriptures, Isaiah 41:4 "Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he." the First and "with" the last, sound like your he "as" the same as him. well lets see if that's true, Isaiah 48:12 "Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last." you see it now, not "as" the same, but is the SAME one. see in Isaiah 41:4 he is "WITH", sound like two correct, no, because he is "ALSO", meaning the same ONE PERSON. with shows he is the "diversity", or the "Offspring" of his OWNSELF, read Isaiah 63:5, "his OWN ARM". now lets see this diversity plainly. Revelation 22:16 "I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star."

what do "offspring" mean?
G1085 γένος genos (ǰe'-nos) n.
kin.
{abstract or concrete, literal or figurative, individual or collective}
[from G1096]
KJV: born, country(-man), diversity, generation, kind(-red), nation, offspring, stock
Root(s): G1096

a "diversity" is just another word for "offspring", your 1x1x1=1 ... (smile), only the ONE "shared" or diversified himself in flesh.

now one other revelation, lets build your understanding. Revelation 22:16 "I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star."

Jesus is the "ROOT", here's your Spirit in eternity. the ROOT is the same as the "FIRST". the source of everything. the "OFFSPRING", is the ROOT shared in flesh..... BINGO. same person same nature. only that the NATURE, that was shared in the natural flesh, (your John 1:14), was,
G2758 κενόω kenoo (ke-no-ō') v.
1. to make empty.
2. (figuratively) to abase, neutralize, falsify.
[from G2756]
KJV: make (of none effect, of no reputation, void), be in vain

but now raise in glory, John 17:5 "And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was." the un-diversified Spirit is the "Spirit", for God is a Spirit, John 4:24a. ... BINGO, and now the "Last", or the LAST ADAM, the Offspring is glorified in the Same .. Spirit. how easy was that to understand. so, is it two Spirits? no, it's the same one Spirit, "diversified". that's why Jesus, who is that "Spirit" of John 4:24a in an un-diversified" state, is that eternal life of 1 Timothy 6:16 "Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.".

see, that's where you were going, but going at it the wrong way. but look I commend you, for you was on the right road, but just without the wisdom of God. study what we have posted and if you have any question please ask.

PICJAG.

 

[justbyfaith]

for you was on the right road, but just without the wisdom of God.

I certainly said it according to the wisdom that the Lord has given me; just not in your words.

 

[101G]

I certainly said it according to the wisdom that the Lord has given me; just not in your words.

I have no beef with what the Lord gave you, but the he "as" him" is on the right road, but when you said, "and He is the same Spirit as Him who inhabiteth eternity", and made that distiction, that I could not agree with. and also, it is true that Jesus is the Only one, (the Holy Spirit), is the ONLY one who inhabiteth eternity in and out of Flesh... glorified flesh that is.. so see why I could not agree fully with your statement. as said, if you want to discuss the reason, I'm game.

PICJAG.

 

[justbyfaith]

I have no beef with what the Lord gave you, but the he "as" him" is on the right road, but when you said, "and He is the same Spirit as Him who inhabiteth eternity", and made that distiction, that I could not agree with. and also, it is true that Jesus is the Only one, (the Holy Spirit), is the ONLY one who inhabiteth eternity in and out of Flesh... glorified flesh that is.. so see why I could not agree fully with your statement. as said, if you want to discuss the reason, I'm game.

PICJAG.

It seems to me that the Son of God is in the flesh but that He who inhabiteth eternity is not in flesh.

Does this not make them on distinctly different levels?

He is the same Person; but One is not in flesh and the other is.

In effect, He is in two places at once; in eternity (filling all things), and in the flesh (a finite human body).