1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Featured True Trinity.

Discussion in 'Christian Theology Forum' started by justbyfaith, Jan 4, 2020.

  1. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    10,305
    Likes Received:
    2,264
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    They are both the same Person and distinct from each other. Jesus is the Father come in human flesh; distinct from the Father in that He dwells in human flesh.

    You are only half-right.

    The way you are preaching it, that is Tritheism.

    It says plainly (kjv):

    Psa 50:1, [[A Psalm of Asaph.]] The mighty God, even the LORD (i.e. Jehovah), hath spoken, and called the earth from the rising of the sun unto the going down thereof.

    The Holy Ghost is declared to be God in Acts 5:3-4; and shown to be a Person in Romans 8:27 and Acts 5:3-4. He both has a mind, and makes intercession for the saints, and can be lied to. These things indicate His personality.

    Psalms 45 is in fact a Messianic Psalm and points forward to Messiah and so does not only refer to King David; and in this instance refers to the Messiah alone.

    In that verse, God called satan, the god of this world.

    And in declaring Himself as the Son of God He is declaring Himself to be the mighty God and the everlasting Father...no way of getting around it (Isaiah 9:6). You have to go through a series of mental gymnastics in order to try; instead of simply taking God at His word.
     
  2. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    10,305
    Likes Received:
    2,264
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    I believe that that is indeed what he is saying, as that is the usual line of the Jehovah's Witnesses (as he may be one of those or else a Christadelphian). But I will also let him respond.
     
  3. JustAskin

    JustAskin Member

    Messages:
    49
    Likes Received:
    6
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    SovereignGrace,
    • Jesus Christ is not Almighty God
    • Jesus Christ is ‘the Son of the Almighty God and Father’
    • Jesus Christ is a human Being who was consecrated by his God and Father (as he spoke himself Tk the Jews)
    • Jesus was made alive in the manner of the first man, Adam.. that is to say, not by the seed of man but by the Father’s Holy Spirit. In this, both were HOLY AND SINLESS, and both, at least, followed the spirit of Almighty God, which is a perfect definition of ‘a Son’ (Luke 3:38).
    Adam sinned and lost his Sonship. God was angry and, after initially considering destroying the whole of mankind, desisted and gave mankind a chance to be redeemed. God purposed that a one from mankind who was found holy and sinless, should give his life to be the redeemer.

    Throughout the history of the Hebrews, Israelites, and Jews, God sought for such a man... David came the nearest: ‘I have found my David!’, said the Lord God... only to see David sin...

    Seeing that sin was found in all men, Almighty God enacted his ‘back up plan’: the one he prophesied from the beginning:
    • ‘The seed of the woman shall crush the head of the snake!’
    Thus, God’s prophesy concerning his ‘Servant’ (Isaiah 42:1) was brought into fulfilment: (‘In the past, God spoke through the prophets. But in the fullness of time, he now speaks through his Son...’.
    This ‘Son’ is the ‘SECOND ADAM’ (or more precisely, ‘The LAST ADAM’.

    Why is he, Jesus, called by such a title?

    What is the link between the ‘First Adam’ and this ‘Second/Last Adam’?

    Well, the First Adam brought sin into the world... the second/last Adam DESTROYS IT out of the world.

    And, ‘Adam’, means, ‘Man’!

    Jesus says to the Jews: ‘What do you say of the one (The MAN) that God CONSECRATED and sent into the world...’

    Jesus is speaking of himself... and, CONSECRATED means what it says:
    • Set apart in holiness (which, coincidentally, or deliberately, is what ‘CHRIST’ means...
    How is ‘God’ consecrated to himself?

    Oh, I forgot to ask... SovereignGrace, what is it you really wanted to know?
     
  4. JustAskin

    JustAskin Member

    Messages:
    49
    Likes Received:
    6
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    I am not a Jehovah witness nor a Christadelphian.

    In fact I’m not any label except ‘a speaker of the truth’.
     
  5. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    10,305
    Likes Received:
    2,264
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Those who believe this statement will, most assuredly, die in their sins (John 8:24).
     
    SovereignGrace likes this.
  6. JustAskin

    JustAskin Member

    Messages:
    49
    Likes Received:
    6
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    jbf says:
    It says plainly (kjv):

    Psa 50:1, [[A Psalm of Asaph.]] The mighty God, even the LORD (i.e. Jehovah),hath spoken, and called the earth from the rising of the sun unto the going down thereof.

    Oh boy, jbf, there is ‘El’ and there is ‘Elohim’ in that verse. The ‘El’ is indeed a reference to ‘MIGHTY ONE’. It is the same context in which Jesus says that:

    • Elohim called those who received his word, el”
    • God called then ‘gods’ unto whom the word came”
    Examples:
    • A judge is ‘El’ in his courtroom
    • A Father is ‘El’ in his household
    • A Lion is ‘El’ in the jungle (not strictly true but it’s just a saying!!)
    The second, is reference to Deity, ‘[a] God’... Sorry, jbf, you need to study Hebrew!!!


    (30) I and the Father are one.”
    • This is ‘one in agreement’. But nonetheless, if you are going to force a point of trinity, then notice that this declares a BINITY... TWO as one... but we know there is no such ideology, never mind a Theology! In fact, at another time later, Jesus declares that the ‘sheep’ should become ‘one’ with the Father and himself... hey, there is a TRINITY... THREE AS ONE : The Father, The Son, and ... THE SHEEP!!
    The Holy Ghost is declared to be God in Acts 5:3-4; and shown to be a Person in Romans 8:27 and Acts 5:3-4. He both has a mind, and makes intercession for the saints, and can be lied to. These things indicate His personality.​

    jbf, what are you talking about. Jesus speaks of himself and his Father as one in agreement. Why are you ADDING stuff about the SPIRIT of the Father as another PERSON? And ‘another person’ that neither the Father nor Jesus Christ ever mentions AS another person?!
    • Stephen saw ONLY God and Jesus in heaven
    • Revelation only symbolises God and Jesus AND the Saints (but you don’t call this a TRINITY... why?)
    jbf, the Holy Spirit of the Father is ‘The Spirit of TRUTH’. The Father SENDS HIS SPIRIT into our hearts to Teach us, Guide us, Bring Remembrance to us, to empower us, and to reprimand us. The POWER OF GOD is not a person... if we are ANOINTED with it then we are EMPOWERED in small ways AS FITS OUR ABILITY.. this is what is meant by the Holy Spirit ‘Speaking’ to us. If we go against the power of God then we are punished (See Jonah, Zacharias (Father of John the Baptist), and Ananias and his wife). If we follow the guidance of the Holy Spirit of the Father then we are ‘Sons of the Father... Sons of God’. jbf, we are NOT:
    • ‘Sons of Jesus Christ’
    • ‘Sons of the Holy Spirit’
    yet you are to state to me that we who follow the spirit are ‘Sons of God’ - and by your ideology, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are God... isnt that a contradiction? I’m guessing you don’t know what a contradiction is!!

    It was to King David, FIRST, in fact, that the Apostle quoted from the verse: ‘Thy throne, O God, is forever...’ a prophecy of the eternal throne of David, which later, Jesus SHALL OCCUPY -David’s ETERNAL THRONE. So are you going to deny that David was called ‘GOD’... why, even SATAN is called ‘GOD’* ... where is your denial, jbf??
    Psalms 45 is in fact a Messianic Psalm and points forward to Messiah and so does not only refer to King David; and in this instance refers to the Messiah alone.​

    Check the Hebrew: It reads:
    • ‘Thy throne IS, GOD, forever...’
    Who ADDED the ‘O’? Why?
    In reality, that verse reads:
    • ‘Thy MIGHTY throne is forever...’
      —————————-
    Did Almighty God call himself ‘The God of this age!?’​
    • *2 Cor 4:4 “The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel that displays the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.”
    In that verse, God called satan, the god of this world.
    jbf, Satan is called ‘GOD’... every ’GOD’ is a GOD of SOMETHING!!! Maybe you are learning that the word and term, ‘God’ is, like I said, not UNIQUE except by context. Even if you believe the verse, ‘Thy throne, O God...’ means Jesus is God, the reading of it does not confess an ALMIGHTY GOD... but rather just a ‘MIGHTY ONE’ just as the reference to Satan being ‘God’ is certainly a reference to a ‘MIGHTY ONE’, a ruler, ‘THE ruler... of this world’.
    And, jbf, Satan OFFERED Jesus the RULERSHIP of the world if Jesus bowed down and worshipped him.. why? Because, Satan said:
    • ‘It is MINE (I am the ruler) to give to whom I will!’
    jbf, how could Jesus be ALMIGHTY GOD if SATAN was offering Jesus the rulership of the world??? Who can TEMPT GOD with what God already owns?

    Trinity truly is silly!!!


    (36) do you say of him whom the Father consecrated and sent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of God’?​
    • Jesus declares himself as ‘SON of God’... ‘I did not even call myself God - but only the SON of God so why do you say I blaspheme??’ and that he has been ‘consecrated by the Father’. God does not consecrate God... God does not consecrate himself.
    And in declaring Himself as the Son of God He is declaring Himself to be the mighty God and the everlasting
    Father...no way of getting around it (Isaiah 9:6). You have to go through a series of mental gymnastics in order to try; instead of simply taking God at His word.
    jbf, God’s word is to consecrate a man who is holy and sinless. Why would God consecrate God? What in God can be consecrated?
    Priests and Kings were consecrated... ‘SET ASIDE’ like Jesus, ANOINTED, with HOLY OIL... in Jesus’ case, the ‘Holy Oil’ was the Holy Spirit, the ‘Oil of Gladness’.
     
  7. JustAskin

    JustAskin Member

    Messages:
    49
    Likes Received:
    6
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    Wow, this is amazing... you mean that the truth condemns the truth sayer to eternal death?
    Isn’t that what the Athanasian creed threatens: that if you speak against the great Lie, you will die?
     
  8. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Certified Flunky

    Messages:
    1,912
    Likes Received:
    1,613
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Again my friend, the Father and Son are not the same Person. They are distinct from each other, yet one God.
     
  9. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Certified Flunky

    Messages:
    1,912
    Likes Received:
    1,613
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    @JustAskin


    I am going to unequivocally show you that the Christ is indeed God. And that there are Three that make up one Being, one God.

    In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.[Genesis 1:1] Here we see plainly that it was God who created everything that is shown in Genesis 1. This is unmistakable.

    In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being. In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.[John 1:1-5] We can see that the Word is explicitly stated as being God. It also says He was in the beginning with God. This shows that there are more than one Person being spoken of here. We see God the Father and God the Son BOTH being spoken of here. It cannot be any clearer than it states it here.

    And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.[John 1:14] The same Word in John 1:1 is the same Word here. The Word, the Son of God, who is also called God in verse 1, is the One who became flesh. This is referring to the Word's incarnation.

    He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities--all things have been created through Him and for Him. He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together. He is also head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything. For it was the Father’s good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him, and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things in heaven.[Colossians 1:15-19] Again, here is another clear reference to the Son. It was by Him that all things were created. In Genesis 1 it says that God created all things. So, Jesus is indeed God.
     
  10. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Certified Flunky

    Messages:
    1,912
    Likes Received:
    1,613
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, andbeing made in the likeness of men. Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, so that at the name of Jesus EVERY KNEE WILL BOW, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.[Philippians 2:5-11] This emptying does not mean that He emptied Himself of His divine attributes, but they He chose not to always use them. He still raised the dead, was able to heal miles away, knew ppl's thoughts, &c. But, it says He existed in the form of God. The Christ is just as much God as the Father and Holy Spirit are God. There is not one Person larger than the other Two, but all Three are co-equal, co-eternal.
     
  11. JustAskin

    JustAskin Member

    Messages:
    49
    Likes Received:
    6
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    • The Father is Almighty God - God is SPIRIT
    • Jesus Christ is ‘A man consecrated by God’... that is what ‘Christ’ means:
      • ‘Anointed’, ‘Set Aside for kingship or Priesthood’ - and indeed Jesus BECOMES ‘King over Creation’ AND ‘High Priest TO God’
      • It can scarcely be that ‘Jesus-God’, equal to God, indeed, by trinity, IS GOD, should be ‘Set Aside’ BY GOD to become ‘High Priest TO GOD’ ... to himself? And, high priest to the Holy Spirit?
      • Please show where the trinity logic lies (my pun!)
     
  12. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Certified Flunky

    Messages:
    1,912
    Likes Received:
    1,613
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    And you conveniently bypassed by post # 249.
     
  13. JustAskin

    JustAskin Member

    Messages:
    49
    Likes Received:
    6
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    ...”God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name...”

    I am flummoxed as to how trinity people read that:
    • GOD HIGHLY EXALTED Jesus
      • (and yet say Jesus IS God who is eternally exalted - this implying that God was lowered!! Can God be lowered?)
    • and bestowed the greatest name on Jesus
      • (while Jesus is God and already has the greatest name!)
    A question I desire to know an answer to:
    A verse in scriptures states that:
    • “The Father was pleased that [Jesus] should be filled with the Spirit”
    Since Trinitarians say that Jesus is almighty God, What was Jesus BEFORE he was filled with the Spirit (Obviously, the anointing at the river Jordan! Just as the Apostles were ‘filled as much as they could contain at their anointing at Pentecost!)
     
  14. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Certified Flunky

    Messages:
    1,912
    Likes Received:
    1,613
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus,[Titus 2:13]

    Then back up...

    Paul, a bond-servant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ, for the faith of those chosen of God and the knowledge of the truth which is according to godliness, in the hope of eternal life, which God, who cannot lie, promised long ages ago, but at the proper time manifested, even His word, in the proclamation with which I was entrusted according to the commandment of God our Savior, To Titus, my true child in a common faith: Grace and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Savior.[Titus 1:1-4]

    Paul, writing by inspiration of the Holy Spirit, in both place called the Christ both God and Savior. To say otherwise is calling God a liar, as the bible explicitly states the Christ is God.
     
  15. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Certified Flunky

    Messages:
    1,912
    Likes Received:
    1,613
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    The Christ humbled Himself by becoming a man. In this, He never ceased being God, but did become a man. It was afterwards He was exalted.

    Now, please address post # 249.
     
  16. JustAskin

    JustAskin Member

    Messages:
    49
    Likes Received:
    6
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    No... I am dealing with it. By the way, there’s no need to quote whole books on scriptures.. the relevant aspects will do. I’m aware enough of the fallacies of trinity believers And, by the way, just in case you don’t get to know it... I know that the best lies contain 95% truth... so when you agree with the truth in the larger main, I am aware that you will poke in an unfounded element that is completely false. I also know that, like all Trinitarians, you will avoid answering when you realise your ideology cannot be reckoned with truth.

    Phil 2 is such a STUPID trinity proof that I feel so sorry for those who misquote it, misrepresent it, and mis-use it for their cause. They know absolutely that they are wrong but since others use it as such then they feel oblige to raise it to their cause.

    The tenet of Phil 2 is that Jesus, though ANOINTED with the POWER OF GOD (the Holy Spirit) did not think to USE that power for his own purpose. The apostles are reminded that they too are EMPOWERED with Holy Spirit (at Pentecost) and must not (must have in mind that) LIKE JESUS, they must put themselves LAST and not ‘show off’ (Grieve the Holy Spirit).

    Scriptures illustrates the theme of an empowered person prophesying Jesus:
    • Joseph, is empowered with the power of Pharoah. Pharoah gave him his signet ring to use so that in all things anything Joseph did, it was as if Pharoah himself had edicted it. Joseph could have set himself up as EQUAL to Pharoah and carried out selfish deeds with such powers. But he did not. Remember that though Joseph HAD THE POWER of Pharoah, he WAS NOT PHAROAH bevause Pharoah had stated, ‘You are Pharoah...Except for my throne...’
    • The similar theme is played out in the BOOK OF ESTHER where the Jew, Mordeciah is EMPOWERED by king Xerxes to save the Jews. Xerxes hands over his signet ring (POWER AND AUTHORITY) to Mordeciah to issue anything he liked IN THE NAME OF THE KING (Xerxes). Mordecaih could have misused his powers BUT INSTEAD he made himself a servant to his fellows in order to save them
    Jesus stated plainly to the disciples that they who desire to be first must put themselves last. This is an honourable state because the one who is greater (in humanity) knows his great powers and thus should use it to UPLIFT lesser persons. In order to UPLIFT, one needs to be BELOW.

    And, again, if Jesus IS GOD, how can there be a COMPARING of him TO GOD??

    And if Jesus IS GOD, how can he be EMPOWERED BY GOD?
    Doesn’t an empowerment imply that PRIORLY Jesus WAS NOT GOD?

    Indeed, being NOT ‘God’ is exactly Jesus’ state prior to his anointing. This, ‘Being God’ is the error that trinity claims for Jesus. BECAUSE Jesus ‘has the power of God’, trinity errs in stating that he is EQUAL TO GOD... this is patently untrue. A thing (a) Equal TO another thing (b) does not make (a) AS (b). The GLASS filled from the JUG of orange juice IS NOT THE JUG because it contains orange juice from the Jug.
    The Jug pours out it’s contents into the glass - as much as the glass can contain. Jesus is FILLED with the power of God - in total. The apostles are like cups with holes and can ONLY BE FILLED as much as the level of SINFUL HOLES allow.. hence the apostles received only LIMITED POWERS (Gifts) from the Holy Spirit.

    It is craving an explanation as to how Jesus had TWO PERSONALITIES by trinity. How did he SEPARATE his so-called ‘God Spirit’ from his ‘human spirit’? How did he, being UNSULLIED by the mingling of Godship with humanity, be:
    • not able to know of what God knows?
    • unable to do what God can do?
    • able to DIE which God cannot?
    • become IMMORTAL which God always was?
    • be seated next to God, when he IS GOD?
    • be given power and authority to rule FOR A PERIOD, and hand back P&A to God, ‘Who gave it to him’...
    • Does God RECEIVE POWER?
    • Does God ‘GIVE BACK POWER’?
    • Does God become RULER OVER his own CREATION?
     
  17. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Certified Flunky

    Messages:
    1,912
    Likes Received:
    1,613
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    @JustAskin

    Yet, in Genesis 1:1ff and John 1:1ff it says God created all we see. Then in John 1:14, the Word(the One who created all we see), became flesh. This One is called God in John 1:1c.

    He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities--all things have been created through Him and for Him. He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together. He is also head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything. For it was the Father’s good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him, and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, I say,whether things on earth or things in heaven.[Colossians 1:15-20]

    Another passage that clearly shows the Christ created all we see. He is God.
     
  18. JustAskin

    JustAskin Member

    Messages:
    49
    Likes Received:
    6
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    Christ ‘humbled himself to become a man’... what are you talking about? That’s NOT what the verse says... what are you reading?
    Christ Jesus WAS BORN a Man...
    He was EMPOWERED by the power of God to do good.
    He was TEMPTED in the wilderness as to whether he WOULD MISUSE these powers
    All things Jesus did ‘IN THE NAME OF HIS FATHER’... Jesus spoke this to the Jews even as Jesus DENIED claiming to be God. He claimed only to have called himself ‘The Son of God’. Who do you believe:
    • The Jews, who falsely accused Jesus of claiming to be God, or
    • Jesus Christ, who said, ‘I did not call myself God... but only the Son of God’
    jbf claims that being ‘Son of God’ means Jesus IS God... but, in fact, that is EXACTLY what the Jews accused Jesus of ...AND ... what Jesus DENIED.

    In fact, ‘Son of God’, Jesus DEFINED of himself as:
    • ‘[He who is] doing the works of the Father’
    And scriptures also says:
    • ‘All who follow the Spirit are SON OF GOD’
    which is saying the same thing... we knowing that NONE of us, EXCEPTING JESUS CHRIST, is COMPLETELY following the Spirit of God, therefore we are not [yet] ‘Sons’ of God... only Jesus is.. which is why he is described as ‘The ONLY SON of God’ but Jesus prays the father that there be many others whom the Father will ADOPT as SONS in the future.
    And, before you mention ‘apostles’ and ‘adoption’... may it be known to you that God the Father also spoke of an ADOPTION of Jesus Christ:
    • ‘This day I have become to you, a Father, and you have become to me, a Son’
    Now tell me that this verse is not an ADOPTION STATEMENT!!

    The Holy Angels eternally do the works of the Father... they are SPIRIT SONS of God.
    God created the world and put man on the earth to govern it. He purposed that one such MAN should RULE OVER IT as King with others as support administration, and as subjects... mirroring the Heavenly order.

    A MAN is to rule as king over creation. Initially it would have been ADAM. But on sinning he list his position as the Fathers most beloved (being the first born). Another is ‘brought up to replace him as the most beloved.

    Guess what, this is mirrored throughout the Torah:
    • Cain (first born) sinned - Seth was brought you to replace him
    • Ishmael (first born) sinned - Isaac replaces him (read and see that Ishmael was initially most loved by Abraham!)
    • Esau (first born) sinned - Jacob replaced him (Esau sold his birthright to Jacob against the pleasure of God)
    • Joseph’s eldest brother sinned - He, Joseph became most beloved of his Father
    • David was not the eldest but became most beloved of his Father after his eldest and first born brother sinned
    • David’s eldest son sinned - an inconspicuous son, Solomon, became most beloved of David
    • Solomon’s first born sinned... you get the picture!!!
    So....finally we have:
    • Adam sinned - Jesus is brought up to replace him (The First replaced by another... MAN!!) Jesus is now the most beloved of the Father... what scriptures calls:
      • ‘The FIRSTBORN’ : ‘Most beloved’ (note no space between the two words. One needs to be careful not confuse ‘Firstborn’ with the chronological ‘First Born’)
     
  19. Preacher4Truth

    Preacher4Truth Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,222
    Likes Received:
    2,835
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Hello! Welcome to this religious site! After reading your post above, what distinguishes your beliefs from the Arian error of the JW's? The Watchtower Society, a pseudo-Christian group also denies Christ as YHWH proving it has a false Christ while also proclaiming a false Gospel. The latter is in the same place.

    Will deal with some of your religious beliefs when there is time. It appears up to this point of your tenure on this site of religions you are here mainly to deny Christ as YHWH. Does this accurately describe your purpose here so far?
     
    SovereignGrace likes this.
  20. JustAskin

    JustAskin Member

    Messages:
    49
    Likes Received:
    6
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    I am not Jehovah witness nor any labelled doctrinal belief because the truth has no label.
    • Truth is just Truth
    • Truth is Integrity
    • God’s word is Truth
    The Holy Spirit is ‘the Spirit of Truth’ - which is why it must not be grieved!! If the truth is stressed and frustrated in an attempt to destroyed it then there is no reality! All would be confusion... And:
    • ‘God is not a God of confusion’
    Arians... another label... I’m not ‘Arian’ either! But you asked about JW’s. JW’s believe that Jesus was an Angel before coming as man... that’s tosh!!! JW’s also believe some other weird unscriptural things such as their elders being the prophesied 144,000 to rule with Christ... despite there being way more than 144,000 proclaimed such elders (fight - fight!!!)

    JW’s do believe that Jesus was a Man, and not God... Yes, that part is the same for me... if that’s what you try to label me with as ‘Arian’, forget it - You are just attempting to box me and label me... no fear, sir!

    My expression of truth is of the scriptures. The purpose of the creation of God is to mirror the unlimited Spirit Heaven to a limited physical World (‘earth’... not just planet ‘Earth’, as many misbelieve) Such a physical world is to be governed by a mirror of the Heavenly order, which is:
    • A king
    • Administrators
    • Messengers
    • Workers
    God, the Father (not ‘God the Father’), is King over Heaven and subsequently over earth (creation) also.
    His administrators are the most holy angels, wise, intelligent, powerful in force and energy. They only do the Fathers Will, not in slavery, but joyfully in reverence (They ’SEE the face of God’). These govern over aspects of the created world: Principalities, Policies, ...lesser government orders. The Angel that came to be known as ‘Satan’ was ‘Head Governor’, and keeper (‘Steward’) over creation, awaiting the HUMAN KING to be seated, which is why he could offer Jesus the principalities of the world, saying:
    • ‘All this I will give to you if you now down and worship me.... it is MINE TO GIVE to whom I will’
    Jesus COULD have been tempted to take it from the STEWARD who knew, as an Angel, he would have to hand it over to its rightful king at some point in time. That’s what a STEWARD does: he is a PLACEHOLDER awaiting the true recipient. Indeed, the scriptures says that the world to come will NOT BE GOVERNED BY ANGELS... why? Because it will be governed by HUMANS, glorified humans as Jesus was glorified with immortality.

    See, the angelic order is to be replaced by a human order. Spirit Sons of God replaces by a Human Sons of God.

    (The Angelic order: Some angels ‘Left their Stations’ and rebelled with ‘Satan’... They made BODIES for themselves and put their own spirit into it and took of human females all they desired and bred Nephilims... mutant humans!!
    Now you read that the Angels ‘made bodies’ for themselves. What then when God said, ‘Let us make man in our image’... trinity says he was ‘talking to himself...’ (laugh!!!). No, remember that the angels are wise, intelligent, creative, can build as well as destroy, can consider, have high level thinking abilities... they are not mindless Spirits. So, God spoke to them in counsel for a creature who would be LIKE THEM... able to govern, command, oversee, think, create, design,... BUT more than the level of an Angel - the very IMAGE of Almighty God, the Father... that is in addition: to LOVE, To Master, To RULE. So this was agreed and God gave the order to create a human Being... ONLY THE BODY... proper functioning BODY... there was NO SPIRIT in the body to enliven it (remember that the Demon angels had to put THEIR OWN SPIRIT into the bodies they created!!) Then Almighty God ENLIVENED the BODY of the Man with HIS Holy Spirit (The Breath of life)
    • ‘And the Man BECAME A LIVING SOUL’
    Before the Spirit was in him, Adam (‘Man’) was not a LIVING SOUL!!!

    Where is trinity in the Torah? We see:
    • God
    • The Holy Spirit OF GOD
    1. This not three persons...
    2. This is not even two persons (Spirit OF God)
    3. This is ONE person (The Father)
    What do you think:
    • ‘Father’ means:
      • ‘Creator’
      • ‘He who brings into being’
      • ‘He that gives life’
      • ‘He that is the Head’
      • ‘The law maker’
    So how do you say that ‘God is three’ when it is patently clear that the Father is:
    • The Creator, even by your own belief
    • The giver of the Ten Commandment Laws to Moses
    • The Judge (Ultimate...!)
    • The Head, the ‘God above all whom are called ‘Gods’’ (I do not deny that OTHERS are CALLED ‘Gods’ because they RULE over CONTEXT of things:
      • A judge is GOD OF HIS COURTROOM.. for instance!
      • A Father is God in his household
      • Etc.
    I can go in but I have things to do..


    I am not ‘denying Christ’ but yes, ‘denying Christ as YHWH’. There is no such thing in any verse of the scriptures: Old Testament or new.
    However, in case you set a trap:
    • God, the Father, WILL GIVE JESUS CHRIST the name that is ABOVE ALL NAMES... yes, ‘YHWH’ is that name
    But that is a Prophesy to come after Jesus achieves all that The Father requires of him. Yes, ‘YHWH’, as a TITLE, renders the owner as EVERLASTING KING, an ‘I Am’ which is to say, ‘Never changing’, ‘always WILL BE’...henceforth, in Jesus’ case.
    Note Revelations defines Almighty God as:
    • ‘Is, Was, and always will be’
    But defines Jesus Christ as:
    • ‘I am he who was DEAD but now AM ALIVE for evermore’
    And you know that God cannot die.

    Also, God, the Father is seated permanently on his throne in impenetrable light (absolute power, authority, and sinlessness).

    But Jesus STANDS in front of the throne... There is no place for a GOD who sits in all power and authority - and is ALSO standing subservient to himself in front of that power and authority (in front of himself?) as a Meek and mutilated Lamb.

    Both Jesus and The Father receive Glory, Honor, and Praise... BUT ONLY The Father receives WORSHIP!!!
     
Loading...