True Trinity.

[justbyfaith]

The Son is not the Father that is Modalism, Oneness, Sabellianism, Patripassianism. Take your pick they are the same.

That doctrine is condemned in Scripture, the ECF's, the Creeds and in all Protestantism.

hope this helps !!!

Oneness believers are counted as Protestants.

Also, where is the doctrine condemned in scripture?

And, I will mention that while I hold a view that is similar to Oneness, that my view is not Oneness per se; for I do believe in a distinction between the Persons in the Godhead.

Nevertheless I hold that the Lord is absolutely ONE...so that Jesus is the Father in my view (Isaiah 9:6).

That is, the Spirit of Jesus that became one with the humanity of Christ, in the hypostatic union, is the Father; and the Spirit of Jesus is the Father (John 4:23-24, John 14:7-11).

While the 1st Person of the Trinity (which most identify as the Father) inhabiteth eternity; and is an eternal Spirit who inhabiteth eternity.

It is the same Spirit who combined with human flesh to form the Son of God in the hypostatic union.

But the 2nd Person of the Trinity is distinct from the 1st in that He is come in human flesh.

And the 3rd is distinct from the 2nd in that He is the Spirit that dwelt in Jesus Christ, whom He released back unto the 1st (Luke 23:46).

And the 3rd is distinct from the 1st, in that, while they are the same Spirit (Ephesians 4:4, John 4:23-24, John 7:39; 1 Corinthians 12:4-6), the 3rd Person has lived a human life and His experience qualifies Him to make intercession to the 1st on behalf of all the saints (see Romans 8:26-27). And the 3rd also proceeds from the 1st (John 15:26).

It should also be clear that all the fulness of the Godhead dwells in Jesus Christ bodily (Colossians 2:9).

 

[ChristisGod]

Oneness believers are counted as Protestants.

Also, where is the doctrine condemned in scripture?

And, I will mention that while I hold a view that is similar to Oneness, that my view is not Oneness per se; for I do believe in a distinction between the Persons in the Godhead.

Nevertheless I hold that the Lord is absolutely ONE...so that Jesus is the Father in my view (Isaiah 9:6).

That is, the Spirit of Jesus that became one with humanity in the hypostatic union is the Father; and the Spirit of Jesus is the Father (John 4:23-24, John 14:7-11).

While the 1st Person of the Trinity (which most identify as the Father) inhabiteth eternity; and is an eternal Spirit who inhabiteth eternity.

It is the same Spirit who combined with human flesh to form the Son of God in the hypostatic union.

But rhe 2nd Person of the Trinity is distinct from the 1st in that He is come in human flesh.

And the 3rd is distinct from the 2nd in that He is the Spirit that dwelt in Jesus Christ, whom He released unto the Father (Luke 23:46).

And the 3rd is distinct from the 1st, in that, while they are the same Spirit (Ephesians 4:4, 1 Corinthians 12:4-6), the 3rd Person has lived a human life and His experience qualifies Him to make intercession to the 1st on behalf of all the saints.

It should also be clear that ll the fulness of the Godhead dwells in Jesus Christ bodily (Colossians 2:9).

All a person has to do is look at basic grammar and how pronouns are used which prove the distinction in Persons and that the Father is not the Son. The Son prays to the Father, the Apostles NEVER called Jesus the Father but always the Son of God.

And here is your error as with all errors. One cannot isolate Isaiah 9:6 from the rest of scripture like you have done to form a wrong conclusion.

hope this helps !!!

 

[justbyfaith]

The Son is not the Father

See Isaiah 9:6. (try to read it at face value without changing the wording twice to make it say what you want it to say).

 

[justbyfaith]

All a person has to do is look at basic grammar and how pronouns are used which prove the distinction in Persons and that the Father is not the Son.

I have not said that the Father is the Son; I have said that the Son is the Father.

And I also do not deny a distinction in the Persons.

 

[justbyfaith]

One cannot isolate Isaiah 9:6 from the rest of scripture like you have done to form a wrong conclusion.

It is also not good to ignore Isaiah 9:6 when we come to our understanding of who the Lord is.

 

[justbyfaith]

I can also prove that Jesus is the Father apart from Isaiah 9:6.

 

[ChristisGod]

See Isaiah 9:6. (try to read it at face value without changing the wording twice to make it say what you want it to say).

The everlasting Father - The Chaldee renders this expression, 'The man abiding forever.' The Vulgate, 'The Father of the future age.' Lowth, 'The Father of the everlasting age.' Literally, it is the Father of eternity, עד אבי 'ĕby ‛ad. The word rendered "everlasting," עד ‛ad, properly denotes "eternity," and is used to express "forever;" see Psalm 9:6, Psalm 9:19; Psalm 19:10. It is often used in connection with עולם ‛ôlâm, thus, עולם ועד vā‛ed ‛ôlâm, "forever and ever;" Psalm 10:16; Psalm 21:5; Psalm 45:7. The Hebrews used the term father in a great variety of senses - as a literal father, a grandfather, an ancestor, a ruler, an instructor. The phrase may either mean the same as the Eternal Father, and the sense will be, that the Messiah will not, as must be the case with an earthly king, however excellent, leave his people destitute after a short reign, but will rule over them and bless them forever (Hengstenberg); or it may be used in accordance with a custom usual in Hebrew and in Arabic, where he who possesses a thing is called the father of it.

Thus, the father of strength means strong; the father of knowledge, intelligent; the father of glory, glorious; the father of goodness, good; the father of peace, peaceful. According to this, the meaning of the phrase, the Father of eternity, is properly eternal. The application of the word here is derived from this usage. The term Father is not applied to the Messiah here with any reference to the distinction in the divine nature, for that word is uniformly, in the Scriptures, applied to the first, not to the second person of the Trinity. But it is used in reference to durations, as a Hebraism involving high poetic beauty. lie is not merely represented as everlasting, but he is introduced, by a strong figure, as even the Father of eternity. as if even everlasting duration owed itself to his paternity. There could not be a more emphatic declaration of strict and proper eternity. It may be added, that this attribute is often applied to the Messiah in the New Testament; John 8:58; Colossians 1:17; Revelation 1:11, Revelation 1:17-18; Hebrews 1:10-11; John 1:1-2. Barnes

hope this helps !!!

 

[ChristisGod]

I can also prove that Jesus is the Father apart from Isaiah 9:6.

and I can prove the earth is flat.

 

[ChristisGod]

And I also do not deny a distinction in the Persons.

you have to since claiming the Son is the Father.

 

[justbyfaith]

and I can prove the earth is flat.

Let's hear it.

 

[justbyfaith]

you have to since claiming the Son is the Father.

Nope.

 

[justbyfaith]

The everlasting Father - The Chaldee renders this expression, 'The man abiding forever.' The Vulgate, 'The Father of the future age.' Lowth, 'The Father of the everlasting age.' Literally, it is the Father of eternity, עד אבי 'ĕby ‛ad. The word rendered "everlasting," עד ‛ad, properly denotes "eternity," and is used to express "forever;" see Psalm 9:6, Psalm 9:19; Psalm 19:10. It is often used in connection with עולם ‛ôlâm, thus, עולם ועד vā‛ed ‛ôlâm, "forever and ever;" Psalm 10:16; Psalm 21:5; Psalm 45:7. The Hebrews used the term father in a great variety of senses - as a literal father, a grandfather, an ancestor, a ruler, an instructor. The phrase may either mean the same as the Eternal Father, and the sense will be, that the Messiah will not, as must be the case with an earthly king, however excellent, leave his people destitute after a short reign, but will rule over them and bless them forever (Hengstenberg); or it may be used in accordance with a custom usual in Hebrew and in Arabic, where he who possesses a thing is called the father of it.

Thus, the father of strength means strong; the father of knowledge, intelligent; the father of glory, glorious; the father of goodness, good; the father of peace, peaceful. According to this, the meaning of the phrase, the Father of eternity, is properly eternal. The application of the word here is derived from this usage. The term Father is not applied to the Messiah here with any reference to the distinction in the divine nature, for that word is uniformly, in the Scriptures, applied to the first, not to the second person of the Trinity. But it is used in reference to durations, as a Hebraism involving high poetic beauty. lie is not merely represented as everlasting, but he is introduced, by a strong figure, as even the Father of eternity. as if even everlasting duration owed itself to his paternity. There could not be a more emphatic declaration of strict and proper eternity. It may be added, that this attribute is often applied to the Messiah in the New Testament; John 8:58; Colossians 1:17; Revelation 1:11, Revelation 1:17-18; Hebrews 1:10-11; John 1:1-2. Barnes

hope this helps !!!

And, of course, you had to change the wording twice, just like I said you would.

 

[ChristisGod]

And, of course, you had to change the wording twice, just like I said you would.

Can you read and translate Hebrew into English ?

 

[justbyfaith]

There is one Lord in holy scripture (Ephesians 4:5); and the Lord in question is the Father (Matthew 11:25, Luke 10:21). However, no one can say that Jesus is the Lord except by the Holy Ghost (1 Corinthians 12:3 (kjv)); even by the Spirit of truth. And, Jesus is the Lord (1 Corinthians 8:6).

If Jesus is not the Father, then the Father is a Lord separate from Jesus. And if you are going to go with the Holy Spirit and say that Jesus is the Lord, that makes two Lords. Yet the holy scriptures teach us that there is only one Lord (Ephesians 4:5, 1 Corinthians 8:6).

I conclude that there is one Lord, Jesus Christ. He is even the Lord of heaven and earth. And that makes Him the Father.

 

[justbyfaith]

Can you read and translate Hebrew into English ?

Can you?

I hold to the pov that those who point back to the original languages provide for a cult mentality in that only those who are educated in being able to understand the original languages are now able to understand the Bible properly. But Jesus was rejected by the educated scribes and Pharisees; while the common people heard Him gladly.

Therefore I believe that the Lord preserved His unadulterated message in at least one of the translations that we have in our own language today; and that we do not have to go back to the original Greek and Hebrew in order to receive His unadulterated message.

God is both loving and sovereign and Omnipotent; and on this basis I say that He will not allow His unadulterated message to be hidden from the common people. It is not only the educated language scholars therefore who can come to the knowledge of the truth; but those who simply read their kjv can obtain from it the unadulterated message that the Lord intended for us.

 

[ChristisGod]

Can you?

I hold to the pov that those who point back to the original languages provide for a cult mentality in that only those who are educated in being able to understand the original languages are now able to understand the Bible properly. But Jesus was rejected by the educated scribes and Pharisees; while the common people heard Him gladly.

Therefore I believe that the Lord preserved His unadulterated message in at least one of the translations that we have in our own language today; and that we do not have to go back to the original Greek and Hebrew in order to receive His unadulterated message.

God is both loving and sovereign and Omnipotent; and on this basis I say that He will not allow His unadulterated message to be hidden from the common people. It is not only the educated language scholars therefore who can come to the knowledge of the truth; but those who simply read their kjv can obtain from it the unadulterated message that the Lord intended for us.

so which translation is Gods word ?

 

[justbyfaith]

so which translation is Gods word ?

The old king jimmy, impaho.

 

[ChristisGod]

The old king jimmy, impaho.

Is the New American Standard or the ESV the word of God ?

 

[user]

I have said that the Son is the Father.

Yes I agree.

Jesus himself addressed this very issue...

Luke 20:41 And he said unto them, How say they that Christ is David's son? [42] And David himself saith in the book of Psalms, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, [43] Till I make thine enemies thy footstool. [44] David therefore calleth him Lord, how is he then his son?

Mark 12:35 And Jesus answered and said, while he taught in the temple, How say the scribes that Christ is the son of David? [36] For David himself said by the Holy Ghost, The LORD said to my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool. [37] David therefore himself calleth him Lord; and whence is he then his son? And the common people heard him gladly.

Revelation 22:16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.


Jesus is the First and the Last.
He is the Alpha and the Omega.

 

[ChristisGod]

The old king jimmy, impaho.

bump

Is the New American Standard or the ESV the word of God ?