Sorry I went away from the computer for a few minutes. I do that from time to time.
My answer to your question, is, I believe that they have been compromised and watered-down to a certain extent.
True Trinity.
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Sorry I went away from the computer for a few minutes. I do that from time to time.
My answer to your question, is, I believe that they have been compromised and watered-down to a certain extent.
Yes I agree. All those later versions have omitted entire passages. When creating a new version, one must make enough text change to avoid copyright laws, thus those later versions have CHANGED God's Word and/or taken from God's Word.
For example take the NIV and turn to Matthew 17:21 ... not there? That's Ok, we can read it in the KJV.
God Bless!
ChristisGod
Well-Known Member
ChristisGod
Well-Known Member
BARNEY BRIGHT
Well-Known Member
Justbyfaith said:
Deuteronomy 6:4- Hear, O Israel, The LORD our God is one LORD.
Mark 12:29- And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord.[/Quote\]
Deuteronomy 6:4 was originally written in ancient Hebrew and the word, "Lord" isn't there. The personal name of God is there, "YHWH." No where in Scripture did The True God give man the right to take his personal name "YHWH" out of Scripture and replace it with the word, "Lord."
So Deuteronomy 6:4 should be written as the True God inspired it to be written: Hear, O Israel YHWH our God is one YHWH.
At Mark 12:29 Jesus quoted Deuteronomy 6:4 and he quoted it as it should be quoted. Jesus used God personal name not the word "lord" when he quoted Deuteronomy 6:4.[/QUOTE\]
Justbyfaith said:
Notice here that the Lord is God. And also, we have the following statement in Matthew 11:25
Matthew 11:25- At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them to babes.[/Quote\]
You or anyone trying to use Deuteronomy 6:4 in conjunction with Matthew 11:25 to try and teach that Jehovah and Jesus are the same person is in error I believe, because the word "Lord" was never in the Scripture at Deuteronomy 6:4 originally.
What Matthew 11:25 teaches us is that Jesus Father is Lord of heaven and Earth. It isn't teaching us that Jesus and YHWH are the same person.
Deuteronomy 6:4- Hear, O Israel, The LORD our God is one LORD.
Mark 12:29- And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord.[/Quote\]
Deuteronomy 6:4 was originally written in ancient Hebrew and the word, "Lord" isn't there. The personal name of God is there, "YHWH." No where in Scripture did The True God give man the right to take his personal name "YHWH" out of Scripture and replace it with the word, "Lord."
So Deuteronomy 6:4 should be written as the True God inspired it to be written: Hear, O Israel YHWH our God is one YHWH.
At Mark 12:29 Jesus quoted Deuteronomy 6:4 and he quoted it as it should be quoted. Jesus used God personal name not the word "lord" when he quoted Deuteronomy 6:4.[/QUOTE\]
Justbyfaith said:
Notice here that the Lord is God. And also, we have the following statement in Matthew 11:25
Matthew 11:25- At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them to babes.[/Quote\]
You or anyone trying to use Deuteronomy 6:4 in conjunction with Matthew 11:25 to try and teach that Jehovah and Jesus are the same person is in error I believe, because the word "Lord" was never in the Scripture at Deuteronomy 6:4 originally.
What Matthew 11:25 teaches us is that Jesus Father is Lord of heaven and Earth. It isn't teaching us that Jesus and YHWH are the same person.
101G
Well-Known Member
THE personal NAME OF GOD IS NOT YHWH, THAT'S NOT HIS personal NAME. for YHWH, or H1961 הָיָה hayah (haw-yaw) v. is a "VERB", and verbs are not NOUNS to identify personal names.
a verb in name identifies "WHAT" someone is and not "WHO" they are in name. so that's a lie of the devil.
Remember, Don't argue with 101G, argue with the scriptures, God Holy Word.
PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
a verb in name identifies "WHAT" someone is and not "WHO" they are in name. so that's a lie of the devil.
Remember, Don't argue with 101G, argue with the scriptures, God Holy Word.
PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
BARNEY BRIGHT
Well-Known Member
Jehovah” (Heb., יהוה, YHWH), God’s personal name, first occurs in Genesis 2:4.The divine name is a verb, the causative form, the imperfect state, of the Hebrew verb הוה (ha·wahʹ, “to become”). Therefore, the divine name means “He Causes to Become.” This reveals Jehovah as the One who, with progressive action, causes himself to become the Fulfiller of promises, the One who always brings his purposes to realization.
The greatest indignity that modern translators render to the Divine Author of the Holy Scriptures is the removal or the concealing of his peculiar personal name. Actually his name occurs in the Hebrew text 6,828 times as יהוה (YHWH or JHVH), generally referred to as the Tetragrammaton (literally meaning “having four letters”).
Today, apart from a few fragments of the early Greek Septuagint where the sacred name is preserved in Hebrew, only the Hebrew text has retained this most important name in its original form of four letters, יהוה (YHWH), the exact pronunciation of which has not been preserved. Current circulating texts of the Greek Septuagint (LXX), Syriac Peshitta (Sy) and Latin Vulgate substitute the mere title “Lord” for God’s unique name. Yet no authorization from God has been given by God to take YHWH from the scriptures. God Holy Spirit inspired men to put YHWH in the scriptures man doesn't have the authority or the right to take away from what God's Holy Spirit spires men to write down.
The Tetragrammaton occurs 6,828 times in the Hebrew text printed in Biblia Hebraica and Biblia Hebraica Stuttgartensia. The very frequency of the appearance of the name attests to its importance to the Bible’s Author, whose name it is. Its use throughout the Scriptures far outnumbers that of any of the titles, such as “Sovereign Lord” or “God,” applied to him.
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Jesus Himself took the personal name of YHWH in Deuteronomy 6:4 and quoted it as "Lord" in Mark 12:29.
Jesus interpreted Deuteronomy 6:4 for us when He quoted it (slightly differently) in Mark 12:29.
There is one Lord in holy scripture (Ephesians 4:5). And no one can say that Jesus is the Lord except by the Holy Ghost (1 Corinthians 12:3); even the Spirit of truth. And, Jesus is the one Lord ( 1 Corinthians 8:6).
So how are Jesus and YHWH not the same Person? For the Father (YHWH) is the Lord of heaven and earth, according to Matthew 11:25, Luke 10:21.
I think that there must be some kind of disconnect for you not to be getting this. You are not putting two and two together. Try to add everything up logically, and perhaps you might see my point of view.
BARNEY BRIGHT
Well-Known Member
You're in error, I don't expect you to believe that however. Jesus simply quoted Deuteronomy 6:4 when a man asked Jesus what was the first commandment. You nor anyone else can show in that scripture that Jesus was saying he was the Lord God.
At Matthew 11:25 and Luke10:21Jesus is praying to his Father who is Lord of heaven and Earth. Nowhere in these scriptures is Jesus saying he is the Father who is Lord of Heaven and Earth. The fact that you are ignoring that Jesus is praying to his Father who is Lord of Heaven and Earth, I find that it's you who's disconnected and not getting it.
While on earth, Jesus Christ referred to himself as “Lord of the sabbath.” Matthew 12:8 Appropriately, he used the Sabbath for doing the work commanded by his heavenly Father. That work included healing the sick. (Mt 8:16, 17.) Jesus knew that the Mosaic Law, with its Sabbath requirement, was “a shadow of the good things to come.” (Heb 10:1) In connection with those “good things to come,” there is a sabbath of which he is to be the Lord.(“Lord of the Sabbath”).
While Jesus Christ was on earth, persons besides his disciples called him “Lord,” or “Sir.” (Mt 8:2; Joh 4:11) In these cases the designation was primarily a title of respect or courtesy. However, to his apostles Jesus showed that calling him “Lord” involved more than this. Said he: “You address me, ‘Teacher,’ and, ‘Lord,’ and you speak rightly, for I am such.” (Joh 13:13) As his disciples, these apostles were his learners, or pupils. Thus he was their Lord, or Master.
The fact that Christians have only the “one Lord” Jesus Christ (Eph 4:5) does not rule out their applying “lord” (or, “sir”) to others as a title of respect, courtesy, or authority. The apostle Peter even cited Sarah as a good example for Christian wives because of her obedience to Abraham, “calling him ‘lord.’” (1Pe 3:1-6) This was no mere formality on Sarah’s part. It was a sincere reflection of her submissiveness, for she spoke of him as such “inside herself.” (Ge 18:12) On the other hand, since all Christians are brothers, it would be wrong for them to call one of their number “Leader” or “Lord,” viewing that one as a spiritual leader.—Mt 23:8-10;
There is one Lord (capital "L") (Ephesians 4:5); even the Father (Matthew 11:25, Luke 10:21).
In Mark 12:29 (kjv), Jesus quotes Deuteronomy 6:4 in a slightly different pattern than the original verse (you should take a wild look at this). I believe that Jesus is being authoritative here as concerning the meaning of the original verse. Even if Deuteronomy 6:4, Mark 12:29 (kjv) don't say that there is only one Lord, you still have to deal with Ephesians 4:5, Matthew 11:25, Luke 10:21, 1 Corinthians 8:6, 1 Corinthians 12:3. Here we find that there is one Lord Jesus Christ and that the Father is the Lord of heaven and earth; therefore the Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of heaven and earth (for if He is not then He isn't Lord) is the everlasting Father (see also Isaiah 9:6).
He is saying that the Father is the one Lord of holy scripture. Do you contend now that Jesus is not the Lord? Then you don't have the Holy Ghost (1 Corinthians 12:3 (kjv)).
Look at post #5 of this thread (True Trinity.) where I explain how Jesus can be the Father and yet also pray to the Father.
You are assuming that there is no meaning associated with the capitalization of letters in holy scripture. I would contend that there is a meaning to them.
For example, if 1 Corinthians 8:5 be true and you apply it with capital letters, then there are Lords many and Gods many. Yet the very next verse says that there is one God, the Father, even one Lord Jesus Christ. If you uncapitalize 1 Corinthians 8:6, then there is one god, the Father, even one lord, Jesus Christ. But if that is the case then there are not many gods and many lords, as the previous verse says; because there is only one god and one lord according to your twisting of that scripture.
So then, there is one God, the Father, even one Lord Jesus Christ; and there are also gods many and lords many' and the capitalization of these terms is a part of our understanding of the text.
In order to deny therefore that Jesus is the Father, you would have to identify one of them as being a god or lord rather than the God and the Lord. Now in 1 Corinthians 12:3, we find that no one can say that Jesus is the Lord except by the Spirit of truth. So Jesus is not merely a lord. You may want to heap to yourself a teacher in a different translation to tell you what your itching ears want to hear; but I know that JW's accept that the kjv is the inspired word of the Lord; so you have to deal with what it says in the kjv there.
Now the Father is not a "lord" because He is the one true God (John 17:3). How then can anyone diminish His glory by saying thsat He is merely "a" lord?
Hebrews 1:8-9 shows clearly that the Son is God. Again, you may want to heap to yourself a teacher to tell you something different in reading a different translation than the kjv. But in the end you will be turned aside to fables (such as the idea that Jesus died on a torture stake rather than being crucified).
Again, Abraham was "a" lord, and this title cannot be applied to the Father who is "the" Lord of heaven and earth; with the uncapitalization of the term Lord.
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101G
Well-Known Member
GINOLJC to all
First thanks for the reply. second,ERROR, verbs are not NOUNS, case closed. verbs are actions, just as you said, "He Causes to Become.” cause to become is an "ACTION". it identifies Jesus the ordinal First as, "WHAT" he is ... "CREATOR", and "MAKER" of ALL THINGS, supportive scripture, John 1:3 and Isaiah 44:24 and many other verses... so the Ordinal First "TITLE", here, not personal Name is "Father" because he CREATED, and MADE all things. TITLES are not Persons PERSONAL NAMES. you need to take a English course in knowing the difference between Nouns and Verbs.
Nouns identifies "WHO" someone is vs "WHAT" someone is. it's just that simple.
and for the FALSE NAME, "JEHOVAH", AKA Yahweh, might as well get both, they are Pagan man made name. So where did these names come from? these name came from, what is know as the tetragrammaton, and men tampered with it by adding vowels to these four letters. the tetragrammaton is a term from the Greek word, τετραγράμματον, meaning, "a word having four letters". notice a "word", not a "Name". It is the Hebrew written word, or four letters, (יהוה), Yodh, He, Waw, He, hence the translation into English, YHWH, or as some render, JHVH. these four letters, suppose to be the unpronounced name of God. and from these four letters come the man made false names Yahweh, Hebrew, and Jehovah, English.
let's see how they came up with these false Names. The word "JEHOVAH" was formed by merging the three vowels (e, o, and a) into the Romanized (Latinized) four letter version JHVH to get, JeHoVaH. and the word "YAHWEH" was formed by merging the vowels (a, and e), into the four letter version to get, YaHWeH. so we have the English man made, and the Hebrew man made form of God's supposed unpronounced name. here is the mistake. they, (the translator), added vowels to the four letter consonant, to make up a name to pronounce. one can never add or take away from the WORD of God. they added vowels to give God a personal name, because they knew that YHWH is a verb, and not a noun. and because the suppose name was lost, which the Jews said was forbidden to pronounce, they made a guess at the name where pointers should be. this was a grave mistake on their part. when you add to the word of God you just put the spiritual noose around your neck. arbitrarily, the translators injected the vowels into the four letter consonant to come up with the names, "YaHWeH", and, "JeHoVaH". these name are as false as three left shoes.
the TRUE Name of God is "JESUS", or in Hebrew, "YESHUA".
it is the Strong's #H3442 יֵשׁוַּע Yeshuwa` (yay-shoo'-ah) n/l., or the Greek, G2424 Ἰησοῦς Iesous (ee-ay-sous`) n/p. AND NOTICE SOMETHING, THESE NAMES ARE "NOUNS", AND NOT VERBS.
it's easy to find false information.... using a verb, with added vowels to make up a false name, and many people... christian bought it lock stock and barrel. it's amazing how people just accept anything without checking it out.
my sources for Strong's #H3442 יֵשׁוַּע Yeshuwa and the Greek, G2424 Ἰησοῦς Iesous, is the Mickelson's Enhanced Strong's Dictionaries of the Greek and Hebrew Testaments. so my work can be reproduce.
Remember, Don't argue with 101G, argue with the scriptures, God Holy Word.
do your own research, and see for yourself.
PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
BARNEY BRIGHT
Well-Known Member
I'm not going to look at another post. It's obvious you're going to twist Scripture to make it mean what you want it to say. I've already looked at post #5 and didn't agree with what it said because you deny The Only Begotten Son of God, who is the Word became human(flesh). You instead say it was God himself who is the word and became human(flesh). The scripture at John 3:16 says God sent his Only Begotten Son to the world of mankind. Nowhere in that Scripture does God Holy Spirit inspire men to write down that God sent himself. If that is what God wanted men to write down then Gods Holy Spirit would have inspired men to write that down. The only thing I see you do is when God's Holy Spirit inspired men to write down Jesus quoting Deuteronomy 6:4 at Mark 12:29 you are trying to say Jesus quoted it differently than how God's Holy Spirit had it written. That's you saying that, not God or the scriptures.
At Matthew 11:25 and Luke 10:21, Jesus is praying to his Father who is Lord of Heaven and Earth. These scriptures are not saying that Jesus is the Father who is Lord of Heaven and Earth. All you're doing is twisting them to make them mean what you want them to mean. You do not want to are e with how God's Holy Spirit inspired them to be written down as Jesus praying to his Father who is Lord of Heaven and Earth.
At 1 Corinthians 8:6 it says:
there is actually to us one God the Father, out of whom all things are, and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are, and we through him. This Scripture is showing us that God the Father is the almighty God, the Father, from whom all things are and we for him.” this Scripture is also showing us that wisdom is manifest only by being expressed in some way. God’s own wisdom was expressed in creation (Pr 3:19, 20) but through his Son. (Compare 1Co 8:6.) So, too, God’s wise purpose involving mankind is made manifest through, and summed up in, his Son, Jesus Christ. Thus, the apostle could say that Christ represents “the power of God and the wisdom of God” and that Christ Jesus “has become to us wisdom from God, also righteousness and sanctification and release by ransom.”—1Co 1:24, 30; compare 1Co 2:7, 8; Pr 8:1, 10, 18-21.
Hebrews 1:8-9 says in my Bible: But with reference to the Son: “God is your throne forever and ever, and [the] scepter of your kingdom is the scepter of uprightness. You loved righteousness, and you hated lawlessness. That is why God, your God, anointed you with oil of exultation more than your partners.”
101G
Well-Known Member
Good, and I'll stop reading right here. .......
YIKES!REMEMBER, Don't argue with 101G, argue with the scriptures, God Holy Word.
Another successful sabotage operation.
PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
BARNEY BRIGHT
Well-Known Member
Good, and I'll stop reading right here. .......
REMEMBER, Don't argue with 101G, argue with the scriptures, God Holy Word.
Another successful sabotage operation.
PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
Only in your own mind in which you're like a foolish enough person to believe gravity doesn't exist despite all the evidence to the contrary.
101G
Well-Known Member
so we can this as you cannot reprove what we have said? though so.
PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
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