TWO KINGDOMS

[Doug]

2 Timothy 4:18 And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.


There is a heavenly kingdom. The body of Christ, both Jew and Gentile who have been justified by the faith of Christ, will sit in heavenly places with Christ. Ephesians 2:6 Philippians 3:9

The kingdom of God consists of heaven and earth. 1 Chronicles 29:11

Genesis 13:15 For all the land which thou seest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed for ever.

Above, we read that God has given Israel the land for ever. This is an everlasting earthly possession. Genesis 17:8

Jeremiah 23:5 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.

Deuteronomy 4:40 Thou shalt keep therefore his statutes, and his commandments, which I command thee this day, that it may go well with thee, and with thy children after thee, and that thou mayest prolong thy days upon the earth, which the LORD thy God giveth thee, for ever.

As can be seen in the above passages, the Lord will also establish His kingdom on the earth. Jesus will sit on His throne in the kingdom; the twelve Apostles will also sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes. The Lord has given the earth to Israel. Israel will reign with Christ in the earth. Daniel 7:14 Matthew 19:28 Psalms 45:6 Isaiah 9:7 Revelation 20:4 Revelation 20:6

Revelation 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

In the above verse, we read that, in the earthly kingdom, Israel will be kings and priests. Isaiah 61:6 Exodus 19:6

God will fulfill His promise of the new covenant, given to the nation of Israel. Israel will turn to the Lord, and believe on Jesus Christ. Deuteronomy 30:8 Jeremiah 31:31 Jeremiah 31:33 Ezekiel 36:27 Zechariah 12:10

In the fulness of times, all things will be gathered together in one in Christ. Ephesians 1:10

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

Israel is the Born Again Christians, because the fact is that Israel means Servants of God and when one is truly Born Again you are a Israel = Servant of God !

Fact is that Jesus Christ is the King of Israel you know ? so no one could call themselves Israel now could they if they rejected Jesus Christ, if they make out that they are Israel and reject Jesus as the Christ they are of Satan in fact, no one could be so stupid to not understand that fact.

The true Israelites knew who Jesus was and followed him, they were the first Christians you know !
Jesus Christ said that Nathaniel was a true Israelite ! and Nathaniel knew who Jesus was directly ! because he was a True Israelite in fact !
Only a true Israelite can come to Jesus, Jesus said to his disciples to go seek out the Israelites but if they reject you, then turn away take not the dust from your sandals, because they are not worthy to be Servants of God in fact.

 

[Davy]

Some call those ideas Replacement Theology.

But I agree, God's Word shows that the nation of Israel will be forever. And Jesus is to inherit David's earthly throne as written. If Christ gathers His Church to where He will be, that means the Church will reign with Him as part of that Israel. Since His Apostles and the OT prophets with Him are the foundation of His Church (Eph.2), that definitely makes the idea of God's Israel to mean Christ's Church.

But this upsets many of today's Jews, especially the orthodox Jew, for they believe they only represent God's Israel today.

The reality is that the name Israel, first given to Jacob, has always been about God's Blessing involving the Promise by Faith first given Abraham. The new name of Israel given Jacob represents that original Promise by Faith to Abraham. Paul in Galatians 3 shows The Gospel was preached to Abraham. At the end of John 8, Jesus shows that Abraham saw His day, and was glad. Thus Abraham understood God's Promise was by Faith, and it was accounted to him as righteousness, not of the law, because God gave the Promise to Abraham 430 years before the law was given. That Promise by Faith Apostle Paul showed is the same Faith those in Christ Jesus have believed (Gal.3).

Thus God's true Israel is about His Salvation through His Son Jesus Christ. Always has been. And His Blessing to Jacob with the new name Israel was to signify this. This is why there was an elect line from Abraham all the way down to Christ Jesus that believed the Promise by Faith, while many of fleshy Israel refused to believe on Jesus of Nazareth as The Christ. And to this day, the orthodox unbelieving Jews hide this matter from their congregations.

For this reason, God's Birthright Blessings can be traced all the way from Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, and then to Joseph, and then finally to Joseph's two sons Ephraim and Manasseh. The Birthright includes plenty of corn and wine (natural resources, good lands, etc.), controlling the gates of one's enemies (like those who control the seas), and of course care of The Gospel. These Blessings can be traced from Abraham all the way down to Ephraim and Manasseh (1 Chronicles 5:1-2).

Just as Joseph was separated from his Israelite brethren, mother and father, and became great in a foreign land, so likewise God removed the ten tribes of Israel apart from the house of Judah at Judea, and gave Jeroboam of the tribe of Ephraim to rule over the ten, and then eventually God removed the ten tribes among the Gentile nations, into new lands, and would eventually send The Gospel to them, and they would become the western Christian nations of history, and that is where God's Birthright Blessings would be established like how Joseph was established in Egypt.

And they, along with the believing Gentile, together would become Christ's Church.

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

Of cause the Orthodox Jew sees it that way, not to mention so do all the Jews.

Joseph mum was dead at the time I believe.

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

Any Jew who is not Orthodox is not worthy to be called a Jew.

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

Some see Jesus having made one kingdom both in heaven and on earth. He speaks from the throne in heaven right now.Hebrews12:25-29.

 

[Enoch111]

Some see Jesus having made one kingdom both in heaven and on earth.

There is only ONE Kingdom of God, which encompasses both Heaven and earth. However, Christ has not as yet established His Kingdom on earth, so in effect "the Kingdom of God is within you" (speaking of those who have been born again).

At the same time the parables of the Kingdom of God (also called the Kingdom of Heaven) pertain to the outward manifestation of God's Kingdom during the Church Age. Therefore they include wheat and tares, good fish and bad fish, etc.

After the Second Coming of Christ, He will literally establish the Kingdom of God on earth. But before that the earth will be subject to extreme judgments over a long period of time, and all the kingdoms of the world will be destroyed.

DANIEL 7
13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.
14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.

DANIEL 2
34 Thou sawest till that a stone was cut out without hands, which smote the image upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces.
35 Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth...
44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.
45 Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure.

 

[Davy]

Some see Jesus having made one kingdom both in heaven and on earth. He speaks from the throne in heaven right now.Hebrews12:25-29.

What are you being taught? That Hebrews 12:25-29 Scripture is actually about a coming future event of God's consuming fire burning man's works off this earth on the last day of this present world (2 Peter 3:10). That Hebrews 12:25-27 Scripture is also pointing to a previous destruction God did once before upon the surface of this earth (not the flood of Noah's time either; see Jer.4:23-28).

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

There is only ONE Kingdom of God, which encompasses both Heaven and earth. However, Christ has not as yet established His Kingdom on earth, so in effect "the Kingdom of God is within you" (speaking of those who have been born again).

At the same time the parables of the Kingdom of God (also called the Kingdom of Heaven) pertain to the outward manifestation of God's Kingdom during the Church Age. Therefore they include wheat and tares, good fish and bad fish, etc.

After the Second Coming of Christ, He will literally establish the Kingdom of God on earth. But before that the earth will be subject to extreme judgments over a long period of time, and all the kingdoms of the world will be destroyed.

DANIEL 7
13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.
14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.

DANIEL 2
34 Thou sawest till that a stone was cut out without hands, which smote the image upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces.
35 Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth...
44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.
45 Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure.

I notice you quoted Daniel 7 after Daniel 2.
When does Dan7 occur on your timeline.
Could you comment on Hebrews 12:25-29 according to your timeline.

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

What are you being taught? That Hebrews 12:25-29 Scripture is actually about a coming future event of God's consuming fire burning man's works off this earth on the last day of this present world (2 Peter 3:10). That Hebrews 12:25-27 Scripture is also pointing to a previous destruction God did once before upon the surface of this earth (not the flood of Noah's time either; see Jer.4:23-28).

The future is now...the text mentions that Jesus has spoken on earth, but now He speaks....from the Heavenly .Zion and Jerusalem..Hebrews 12:22-29

 

[Davy]

The future is now...the text mentions that Jesus has spoken on earth, but now He speaks....from the Heavenly .Zion and Jerusalem..Hebrews 12:22-29

Sorry, I don't adhere to the 'kingdom now' theology, and by that I mean His coming physical kingdom on earth that He will establish here at His 2nd coming. To say that has already happened today is to wrongly say His 2nd coming has already happened, and the Full Preterist theory does believe that very falseness.

 

[Enoch111]

I notice you quoted Daniel 7 after Daniel 2.
When does Dan7 occur on your timeline.
Could you comment on Hebrews 12:25-29 according to your timeline.

Daniel 2 and 7 are connected, showing Christ as the Rock who will destroy all earthly kingdoms at His Second Coming, and grind all His enemies to powder (Mt 21:42-44).

As to the passage in Hebrews, Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven, it would apply to the time period IMMEDIATELY AFTER the Great Tribulation and just before the Second Coming of Christ (within the period known as *the Day of the LORD*).

The shaking of the heavens and the earth applies to these cataclysmic cosmic events (Mt 24:29): Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken. The related passages are as below (Mk 13:24,25; Lk 21:26; Rev 6:13,14):

But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken... Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken... And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

When God spoke on Mount Sinai, there was an earthquake And so terrible was the sight, that Moses said, I exceedingly fear and quake (Heb 12:21). As we read in Exodus 19:18: And mount Sinai was altogether on a smoke, because the LORD descended upon it in fire: and the smoke thereof ascended as the smoke of a furnace, and the whole mount quaked greatly.

But what Paul is saying further down is that that was nothing compared to what is to come after the Great Tribulation. The heavens will depart as a scroll, and every mountain and island will be moved out of their places!

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

Daniel 2 and 7 are connected, showing Christ as the Rock who will destroy all earthly kingdoms at His Second Coming, and grind all His enemies to powder (Mt 21:42-44).

As to the passage in Hebrews, Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven, it would apply to the time period IMMEDIATELY AFTER the Great Tribulation and just before the Second Coming of Christ (within the period known as *the Day of the LORD*).

The shaking of the heavens and the earth applies to these cataclysmic cosmic events (Mt 24:29): Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken. The related passages are as below (Mk 13:24,25; Lk 21:26; Rev 6:13,14):

But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken... Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken... And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

When God spoke on Mount Sinai, there was an earthquake And so terrible was the sight, that Moses said, I exceedingly fear and quake (Heb 12:21). As we read in Exodus 19:18: And mount Sinai was altogether on a smoke, because the LORD descended upon it in fire: and the smoke thereof ascended as the smoke of a furnace, and the whole mount quaked greatly.

But what Paul is saying further down is that that was nothing compared to what is to come after the Great Tribulation. The heavens will depart as a scroll, and every mountain and island will be moved out of their places!

I will get back to your post in detail later
.
Just wanted to mention one thing now.
Do you notice that Daniel 7 is Jesus ascension not the second coming. He is coming up not going down. That changes things a bit. I will answer more later.

 

[Jay Ross]

Daniel 2 and 7 are connected, showing Christ as the Rock who will destroy all earthly kingdoms at His Second Coming, and grind all His enemies to powder (Mt 21:42-44).

The Daniel 2 reference to a rock is not Christ, but the foundational reality of the religion that will crush all other religions before it. The foundational reality is that Christ is the Son of God and on this truth the Mountains of Israel, i.e. the theology of the religion represented by the Mountains of Israel, stands.

How long does it take for the Rock that comes down out of heaven to crush all of the other religions? It takes the next age to achieve that outcome.

The Daniel 7 reference to the Son of Man receiving dominion such that all the peoples of the earth should worship Him is a Dominion granted to the Son of man along with a kingdom, i.e. all the peoples of the earth, but that does not indicate that the Son of Man's exercising of that dominion is from the face of the earth. The Daniel 7 chapter is silent on how the Son of Man will exercise the dominion over the Kingdom that He will receive.

How long is the dominion and the kingdom given to the Son of Man last for? It lasts for the age that follows, then the end of the age of the ages ends.

Shalom

 

[Enoch111]

The Daniel 2 reference to a rock is not Christ, but the foundational reality of the religion that will crush all other religions before it.

That is totally incorrect. That passage speaks of KINGDOMS not religions.

 

[Enoch111]

but that does not indicate that the Son of Man's exercising of that dominion is from the face of the earth. The Daniel 7 chapter is silent on how the Son of Man will exercise the dominion over the Kingdom that He will receive.

Again, you are trying to change the meaning of that passage which is very clear and plain. The Son of Man (Christ) will establish the Kingdom of God on earth, and there are multiple passages which provide further confirmation of this fact.

 

[Jay Ross]

That is totally incorrect. That passage speaks of KINGDOMS not religions.

Yrs it speaks of Kingdoms, but associated with the kingdoms are the religions of those kingdoms.

 

[Jay Ross]

Again, you are trying to change the meaning of that passage which is very clear and plain. The Son of Man (Christ) will establish the Kingdom of God on earth, and there are multiple passages which provide further confirmation of this fact.

Yes you can claim that their are many passages that support your POV but unless you provide your scriptural references to support your POV, you are simply blowing smoke.

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

Mt 24:29 was already fulfilled in 70 ad.

 

[Enoch111]

Mt 24:29 was already fulfilled in 70 ad.

If that were true we would already be in the New Heavens and the New Earth.

Unfortunately, that is simply Preterist fantasy. The sun, moon, stars, and planets are still where they belong, and every mountain and island is still in its proper place.