Understanding HEBREWS - is it for Jew or Christian ?

[Arnie Manitoba]

Many of us Christians get our doctrine bent out of shape reading the book of Hebrews , loss of salvation in ch 6 is an example .

I was the same .... until several years ago when I heard Albert Israeli explain it ..... Albert is a Russian Jew who became a Christian and his understanding of HEBREWS solves all the snags the Gentile Christian encounters.

As a guest of Chuck Missler , Albert Israeli gives the following audio clip .... ever since I heard it , the book of Hebrews now makes total sense .

This broadcast discusses: How does the distinction between Israel and the Church affect eschatology?

http://www.khouse.or...show_day=friday

Very informative.


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[Episkopos]

Many of us Christians get our doctrine bent out of shape reading the book of Hebrews , loss of salvation in ch 6 is an example .

I was the same .... until several years ago when I heard Albert Israeli explain it ..... Albert is a Russian Jew who became a Christian and his understanding of HEBREWS solves all the snags the Gentile Christian encounters.

As a guest of Chuck Missler , Albert Israeli gives the following audio clip .... ever since I heard it , the book of Hebrews now makes total sense .

This broadcast discusses: How does the distinction between Israel and the Church affect eschatology?

http://www.khouse.or...show_day=friday

Very informative.


.

In Christ there is no difference between Jews and Gentiles. It should be noted that none of the books of the bible were written to modern believers...at least not directly. Are we Romans or Corinthians?

So the word comes alive through the Holy Spirit as He directs us and teaches us.

The book of Hebrews has everything to do with us...and we would be wise to heed the teachings there.

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

In Christ there is no difference between Jews and Gentiles. It should be noted that none of the books of the bible were written to modern believers...at least not directly. Are we Romans or Corinthians?

So the word comes alive through the Holy Spirit as He directs us and teaches us.

The book of Hebrews has everything to do with us...and we would be wise to heed the teachings there.

Did you even listen to the "Albert Israeli" radio interview ?

Are you saying the book of Hebrews was written to you and me today ? Or is is written to religious Jews trying to understand Christ after years of life as a religious Jews living under the law ?

Listen again , and spare me the details about Jew and gentile being the same under Christ ... I am well aware of that. (thanks) . Besides .... that is not the issue in the book of Hebrews.

Not trying to be critical .... remember I made the same mistake for many years (trying to apply Hebrews to myself personally) ... (as a gentile).

Hebrews has great value to us today .... yes certainly ... .... it marries the Old Testament with the New in a concise manner...... But (some Christians) have made the mistake of reading chapter 6 as though we could lose salvation ..... this is a mistaken application. (in my opinion)

[sup]HEBREWS 6:4 [/sup]It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, [sup]5 [/sup]who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age [sup]6 [/sup]and who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.

(In my own words) (and described poorly) .... I feel he is saying that if we have been life long religious Jews ..... then accept Christ as Messiah ..... then go back to being a religious Jew (under the law) ..... then in order to to have proper salvation .... we would have to come back to Christ all over again .... (crucify him again) .... which by rights is impossible .... because we already have Christ !!!!

WHEW !!!! something like that anyway. ..... :)

Takes some careful thinking ..... but all of a sudden the book of Hebrews makes complete sense. If you get a chance to listen to Albert explain it again , let me know if you agree.

talk later
thanks
Arnie

 

[Trekson]

Hi Arnie, No offense, but I don't watch youtube or listen to sermons on the computer, but I do have an opinion on the verses you shared.

It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, [sup]5 [/sup]who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age [sup]6 [/sup]and who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.

Do I believe "once saved always saved" is a sound doctrine? No

Can a person lose their salvation? Yes, but Got doesn't take it away, the believer who goes to non-believer, gives their gift of salvation back.

The phrase "fallen away" is the same phrase that means to become "apostate". This doesn't mean a sin that you might commit, nor is it even talking of backsliding. This is speaking of outright rejection. This is basically talking of blasphemy and we know that blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is the only unforgiveable sin. This verse also use the expression, "who have shared in the Holy Spirit". This means someone who has partaken of the fruits or the gifts of the Holy Spirit. When a person becomes apostate it means that they "changed their minds" from belief to unbelief. You could considerate as repenting for believing. This person says in effect that "the HS doesn't exist, I never felt God's presence, I hate God and I'm now an atheist and it was all a hoax to confuse me, yada yada." It has nothing to do with being a Jew or a gentile although a Jew who does go back to the law after tasting grace, is doing the same thing.

 

[prism]

Historically Hebrews was written to the Jewish Believers in Yeshua as a warning under the heavy persecution to not re-judaize under the Mosaic system. It has some general applications for believers with a Gentile background as it paints a fuller picture of who Yeshua is.
In brief, 'to the Messianic Jews' but 'for all believers'.

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

Hi Arnie, No offense, but I don't watch youtube or listen to sermons on the computer, but I do have an opinion on the verses you shared.

I hear you and I am much the same. It was actually with great reluctance that I link someone elses work to make a point.

Chuck Missler is a highly intelligent man .... great accomplishments in the secular world ... worked in (military) intelligence .... highly regarded in industry (computors) .... he is getting on in years.

Life long christian ... not afraid to explore all possibilities .... spots things in scriptures we often overlook .... does not have an agenda .... when he speculates he says so .... when something is unclear he says so .... when he adds his opinion and conjecture he says so.

All the while he aims for literal and exacting interpretation .... Most of his recorded messages are given in a classroom setting as a professor. He is not your typical goof christian with a preset agenda. he is now retired and living in new Zealand. And his taped teachings are free.

I have difficulty finding fault with any of that. he has made some mistakes and admits them without hesitation. rare and refreshing.

His guest "Albert Israeli" is the first person (in my opinion) who actually clarifies the book of Hebrews. It is worth the listen. Loads quick .... very little band width .... no pop ups ads or crap .... play it in the background while doing other things.

give it at least one try .... i am confident you will agree.

http://www.khouse.or...show_day=friday

 

[Axehead]

In Christ there is no difference between Jews and Gentiles. It should be noted that none of the books of the bible were written to modern believers...at least not directly. Are we Romans or Corinthians?

So the word comes alive through the Holy Spirit as He directs us and teaches us.

The book of Hebrews has everything to do with us...and we would be wise to heed the teachings there.

Excellent, Episkopos!

The Bible was written for the "New Man", the "new creation" in Christ.

Axehead

 

[Stan]

Many of us Christians get our doctrine bent out of shape reading the book of Hebrews , loss of salvation in ch 6 is an example .

I was the same .... until several years ago when I heard Albert Israeli explain it ..... Albert is a Russian Jew who became a Christian and his understanding of HEBREWS solves all the snags the Gentile Christian encounters.

As a guest of Chuck Missler , Albert Israeli gives the following audio clip .... ever since I heard it , the book of Hebrews now makes total sense .

This broadcast discusses: How does the distinction between Israel and the Church affect eschatology?

http://www.khouse.or...show_day=friday

Very informative.

I will look at this link Arnie, but a couple of things I would like to put on the record.

1. Hebrews is written to believers, period. Not only to Jewish believers.
2. The name of this book is not accurate unless one assumes it is directed to Hebrews, as it does not state this. The author, I believe is Luke and the style is in some ways Pauline in nature which makes sense given Luke's exposure to Paul ministry in Acts.
3. The reason for the book is to show the demarcation from the past 1:1, to the present(at that time), 1:2. The entire book is a warning to look to Christ in the present and NOT look backwards at the OT/OC for answers.