Understanding The HolySpirit

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CoreIssue

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name an angel that is a son of God? scripture please.

Are you just going to disregard Adam?

Genesis 6:2 New International Version (NIV)
2 the sons of God saw that the daughters of humans were beautiful, and they married any of them they chose.

Romans 8:14 New International Version (NIV)
14 For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God.

Are not sons children?
 

101G

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Are you just going to disregard Adam?

Genesis 6:2 New International Version (NIV)
2 the sons of God saw that the daughters of humans were beautiful, and they married any of them they chose.

Romans 8:14 New International Version (NIV)
14 For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God.

Are not sons children?
the sons of God in Genesis 6 are humans. and Romans 8 are refering to humans.

my God, my God.
 

Nancy

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first thanks for the reply.
second, who said something is different from who spoke it. my God how hard is it to understand.
it was the angel who spoke to Abraham as to what the LORD said.
Genesis 22:15 "And the angel of the LORD called unto Abraham out of heaven the second time, 16 And said, By myself have I sworn, saith the LORD, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son". the angel spoke to Abraham as to what God wanted Abraham to hear. is this so hard to understand? if it is then I see why there is so much division in the Churches today.
Yw :) "By myself have I sworn, saith the LORD"...
When the voice came from above at Jesus baptism, the voice itself said "This is my Son in whom I am well pleased." There is no mention of an angel announcing that.
 

101G

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Yw :) "By myself have I sworn, saith the LORD"...
When the voice came from above at Jesus baptism, the voice itself said "This is my Son in whom I am well pleased." There is no mention of an angel announcing that.
GINOLJC, to all
first, thanks for the reply.
Second, nor did it say GOD Voice either. let's see what, or who voice the scriptures say.
Matthew 3:17 "And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

Mark 1:11 "And there came a voice from heaven, saying, Thou art my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

Luke 3:22 "And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.

the bible clearly states, "Add not nor take away from the word of God". when one say it was the voice of God, when one has put the noose around their own necks. the scriptures are clear, "A Voice" came from heaven. and there have been many a cases where angels spoken from heaven on God behalf. saying to the human what God has said.


and on
Genesis 22:15 "And the angel of the LORD called unto Abraham out of heaven the second time,

Genesis 22:16 "And said, By myself have I sworn, saith the LORD, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son:

the Angel said "By myself have I sworn, saith the LORD". it was the angel speaking for the LORD.

if one cannot see that, then some churches, not the Church, but some churches are in trouble. and I mean serious trouble.
 

101G

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Yes they are human.

So was the flesh of Jesus Christ.

In the Adam was the son of God.

You are trying to talk you way around things.
that has nothing with angels. I know humans, (born again) are sons of God, my point all along is saying ANGELS ARE "NOT" SONS OF GOD, am I clear now?.

yes, those who was born in the Garden of the first Adam, before sin entered, are sons of God. and those who are born again in the Last Adam line, (Christ), are sons of God.
 

LoveBeacon

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John 15:26

26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

The HolySpirit is the comforter, Jesus, explaining to the disciples that when He left He would not leave them without a comforter.
He will be the Spirit of truth and He shall testify of me, John 16:13

13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

I understand when the HolySpirit was poured out in the book of Acts it was quite amazing.
Just reading it thrills the believer beyond belief.
Through the years He has been made out to be something He is not.
The main ministry of the HolySpirit is that of a teacher.
For most, that simple ministry of the HolySpirit takes the wind out of their sails. They need more fire and cloven tongues to prove how God can use them.
Like they have a special calling, to their shagrin God is no respector of persons.
Simply put He does not get as exsited as much as we do when a celebrity or politician or king gets saved, it is all the same to Him. He does put much emphasis on a person's past, He is more interested in who and what you are today.
I know when I was involved in several different denominations, some had HolySpirit schools and meetings where they gave their ideas about the HolySpirit.
You say what is wrong with that, first it is not what Jesus said he would do when he came.
The HolySpirit needs to be taught but it must be in the context it was given.
My first sunday school class lesson after I got saved was on the HolySpirit. I didn't know a father from a son to a spirit, new to me but I was hungry. Our teacher was the associate pastor and very good teacher when I look back. I learned things that have stayed with me for all these years that have been invaluable. He gave us a paper for going through the class that I framed.
Has my understanding been perfect through the years, no, is it perfect now, no.
The point I'm trying to make is without your understanding the HolySpirit as your teacher you will never see Christ as your life.
We have the resurrected life of Jesus himself that dwells in every born again believer.
The HolySpirit is in the soul-mind where your understanding is, where you learn. We must yield our minds to him to see what he has to say.
Don't worry about power, don't worry about taking in tongues, yield your mind, the main member of your body to see who you are as a born again believer.

If we read in John 14:26, we actually find an interesting aspect of the holy spirit that isn't mentioned all that often. It reads," But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you."
It appear to me, that the main job of the Holy Spirit is to remind us of what Jesus said to us. This is quite different from the idea that the teachings of Jesus was only for those the disciples before Jesus was crucified. If that IS the case, then why did Jesus say that the Holy spirit would remind His disciples OF Jesus' teachings?
Furthermore, If Saul, who later became Paul, received the same Holy spirit, then wouldn't it make sense that the spirit of what Paul would write His letters (assuming it is under the Holy spirit) is to remind us of what Jesus taught?

I, agree, the Holy spirit is alive and not only seen through signs and wonders (though it can), rather it is under the child-like faith that Jesus asks us to have with His words.

This, however, is just my opinion.

Quick question: How many teachings of Jesus can you name off the top of your hear (no cheating and looking in the Bible). These teachings have to be found within the four gospels. Game on!
In peace
 

stunnedbygrace

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I don't know why this is such a big deal...for you to say the church is in trouble to think God spoke audibly versus that it was an angel speaking FOR God, seems silly to me.
 
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stunnedbygrace

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that has nothing with angels. I know humans, (born again) are sons of God, my point all along is saying ANGELS ARE "NOT" SONS OF GOD, am I clear now?.

yes, those who was born in the Garden of the first Adam, before sin entered, are sons of God. and those who are born again in the Last Adam line, (Christ), are sons of God.

in Job they are called the sons of God in my translation. It says the sons of God appeared before God, and Satan with the m, to bring accusations against Job.
 

CoreIssue

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that has nothing with angels. I know humans, (born again) are sons of God, my point all along is saying ANGELS ARE "NOT" SONS OF GOD, am I clear now?.

Yes, but those who were born in the Garden of the first Adam, before sin entered, are sons of God. and those who are born again in the Last Adam line, (Christ), are sons of God.

The genealogy as written after sin entered in.
 

stunnedbygrace

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So you use the NLT or NRSV?

The NLT is a paraphrase and the NRSV is a gender neutral Bible.

Whichever you're using you need to switch to the NIV or NASB for accuracy.
He teaches me just fine out of the translation I use. And the things you guys argue over are not usually the things that concern me. In my mind, it was angels in Job, so...I didn't have a misunderstanding. (Besides thinking my version said sons.) :)
 
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101G

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in Job they are called the sons of God in my translation. It says the sons of God appeared before God, and Satan with the m, to bring accusations against Job.
there are some sons of God in Job, but they are not angels. let the bible set the tone right in Chapter#1. Listen,
Job 1:3 "His substance also was seven thousand sheep, and three thousand camels, and five hundred yoke of oxen, and five hundred she asses, and a very great household; so that this man was the greatest of all the men of the east.

get your dictionary out and Look up the term "men" here in verse 3. it is the Hebrew word
H1121 בֵּן ben (bane) n-m.
בָּנִים baniym (ba-neem') [plural]
בְּנִי bniy (ben-ee') [possessive singular]
בָּנַי banay (baw-nah'ee) [possessive plural]
(used widely) a son (as a builder of the family name).
{in the widest sense of literal and figurative relationship, including grandson, subject, nation, quality or condition, etc., (like H1 H251, etc.).}
[from H1129]
KJV: one born, branch, man, mighty, son, valiant(-est), worthy, young (one), youth.
Root(s): H1129

This is the same exact word used in Genesis 6:2 for "sons" of God. so stunnedbygrace, are there any "angels" of the east here in Job chapter 1? no, of course not. nor in Genesis 6:2. sons of God are Children "Born" of God. "Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God", John 1:13 (KJV).


and if you try to say that the "Sons of God "in Job chapter 38 are angels ....... sorry they are not, neither the "Morning Stars".

and as for appearing before God, men has been doing that acorrding to scripture, let's check the record.
Joshua 24:1 "And Joshua gathered all the tribes of Israel to Shechem, and called for the elders of Israel, and for their heads, and for their judges, and for their officers; and they presented themselves before God".

Deuteronomy 31:14 "And the LORD said unto Moses, Behold, thy days approach that thou must die: call Joshua, and present yourselves in the tabernacle of the congregation, that I may give him a charge. And Moses and Joshua went, and presented themselves in the tabernacle of the congregation.

Deuteronomy 31:15 "And the LORD appeared in the tabernacle in a pillar of a cloud: and the pillar of the cloud stood over the door of the tabernacle.

men present themselves before the LORD is nothing new, nor was they tempted or to bring accusations against them by satan.

so your assessment of Job don't stand, as for angels being "sons of God".
 

101G

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Haha! Okay. :)
now do you actually know who the Morning stars are and the Sons of God in Jobe 38?

it stunned you to know that "men" in Job 1:3 are humans...... :eek:

it will be equally stunning to actually know who the sons of God and the morning stars are there also........ :p

but be blessed.
 

101G

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The word Lucifer is only used once in Isaiah 14. He was an archangel. This is what the word means...

Lucifer = "light-bearer"
shining one, morning star, Lucifer of the king of Babylon and Satan (fig.)
(TWOT) 'Helel' describing the king of Babylon.

SONS OF GOD also indicates humans, but keeping it in the context of Job 38 I say it means angels.

The phrase "sons of God" is found five times in the Old Testament (Genesis 6:2, 6:4, Job 1:6, 2:1 and 38:7) and five times in the New Testament (Romans 8:14, 19, Philippians 2:15, 1John 3:1 - 2). It has three primary meanings in the Bible, only one of which is made in reference to angels. The other two uses of the "sons of God" references humans.

An example of the first primary meaning of "sons of God" is found in the Book of Job. It states that angels presented themselves before the Eternal and with them was Satan the devil (Job 1:6, see also 38:7). Clearly, the righteous spirit beings are being referenced as "sons" and not Lucifer.

A second usage of this "sons" phrase occurs in the King James Bible translation of the Book of Genesis. In the sixth chapter it states that certain people married women and together produced children who became giants, "mighty men" and "men of renown." The verse in question states, "And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them, that the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives . . ." (Genesis 6:1 - 2, KJV).

The Sons of God
First thanks you for your reply.

second you said, "SONS OF GOD also indicates humans, but keeping it in the context of Job 38 I say it means angels".

first off no angel is never called a "son" of God in which is a title. supportive scripture,
Hebrews 1:5 "For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

is not Genesis 6:2, 6:4, a time, then they are not angels, nor in Job 38. here in Job God is using a metaphor

lets get the correct usage of Job 38.
Job 38:7 "When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

I'm going to give you the answer first and then prove it in scriptures. the Morning Stars are the actual stars in the heavens, and the sons of God here in Job 38 are the sun and the moon.... :D

let's prove it out. if you will go with me first to the book of James an establish the foundation.

James 1:17 "Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning".

here God is called the "FATHER" of LIGHTS. you can go to the blue letter bible online and look up Father which is the Greek work, G3962 πατήρ pater (pa-teer') or you can use the Thayer's Greek Definitions and examine definition #3, which states,
3. God is called the Father
a. of the stars, the heavenly luminaries, because he is their creator, upholder, ruler

say what! the "STARS" yes, the actual stares in the heavens, but what about the heavenly luminaries?, while you're online just go to Dictionary.com and type in "luminary", and this ia what you get, 1. a celestial body, as the sun or moon. UH O, ..... yes, the actual sun and moon, the heavenly luminaries. now ypu know that God in Job was using a metaphor, for I know you're going to say well the morning stars "sang", and the sons of God "shouted" for joy.

well lets see, Psalms 148:1 "Praise ye the LORD. Praise ye the LORD from the heavens: praise him in the heights. Verse 2 Praise ye him, all his angels: praise ye him, all his hosts. 3 Praise ye him, sun and moon: praise him, all ye stars of light. 4 Praise him, ye heavens of heavens, and ye waters that be above the heavens. 5 Let them praise the name of the LORD: for he commanded, and they were created”.

Now what do the word praise mean here? It is the Hebrew word, H1984 הָלַל halal (haw-lal') v. which can be translated as “sing”, or “shine”. See the stars, the sun and the moon sang or praised God by shining their lights at the creation. I know "they shouted for joy", a metaphor, lets have it. Psalms 65:13 "The pastures are clothed with flocks; the valleys also are covered over with corn; they shout for joy, they also sing”. The pastures, and valleys also praising God? Yes, how? by shouting for joy and singing. It’s all a metaphor. Do we now understand.

Job 38 are full of Metaphors, that's all. no the sons of God is not Lucifer = "light-bearer", which he just bear the Light and is NOT the Light. nor was it any angels at creation either. so the sons of God here in Job 38 are the "ACTUAL" stars in the heavens, and the "sun and the moon".

be blessed.
 

101G

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An example of the first primary meaning of "sons of God" is found in the Book of Job. It states that angels presented themselves before the Eternal and with them was Satan the devil (Job 1:6, see also 38:7). Clearly, the righteous spirit beings are being referenced as "sons" and not Lucifer.

ERROR, the righteous spirit of men are being referenced. lets prove it. before you get to Job 1:6 you might want to stop by Job 1:3 first. for it set the stage as to who the sons of God are. listen,
Job 1:3 "His substance also was seven thousand sheep, and three thousand camels, and five hundred yoke of oxen, and five hundred she asses, and a very great household; so that this man was the greatest of all the men of the east".

the word "men" here is the Hebrew word,
H1121 בֵּן ben (bane) n-m.
בָּנִים baniym (ba-neem') [plural]
בְּנִי bniy (ben-ee') [possessive singular]
בָּנַי banay (baw-nah'ee) [possessive plural]
(used widely) a son (as a builder of the family name).
{in the widest sense of literal and figurative relationship, including grandson, subject, nation, quality or condition, etc., (like H1 H251, etc.).}
[from H1129]

this is the exact word used in Genesis 6:2 and 6:4. see Job was a "son" of God ... in the East. in the previous verses it showed that he keep all the feast days.

and as for presenteding himself, or themselves before God, this is nothing new, scripture,
Joshua 24:1 "And Joshua gathered all the tribes of Israel to Shechem, and called for the elders of Israel, and for their heads, and for their judges, and for their officers; and they presented themselves before God".

so that's nothing new. and in the new testament
Matthew 18:20 "For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them".

so at a gathering God will be there. God is everywhere, listen,
Jeremiah 23:23 "Am I a God at hand, saith the LORD, and not a God afar off?

Jeremiah 23:24 "Can any hide himself in secret places that I shall not see him? saith the LORD. Do not I fill heaven and earth? saith the LORD".


so again sons of God are humans.