Unforgiveness and fellowship with God

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Big Boy Johnson

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It all depends on IF they want to be helped or not...

The ones that claim they are convinced that their false doctrine is true... don't want to hear from me... so I cast my cares concerning them upon the Lord

In that context, I can honestly say "I don't care" because I don't carry any concern, anxiety or care for them any further which is what the Lord Himself does in Romans 1:26-32 when He turns people over to a reprobate mind / understanding

It would be totally different if someone wanted to turn from the false doctrines and go back to God's Word... I've seen people do that and when this is the case I'd be more than happy to share bible verse with them, when is what the Lord does as He receives a prodigal back into the fold.
 

Big Boy Johnson

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Here's a passage that indicates men committing sin again other men is a sin before the Lord...

1 Thessalonians 4:6,7
That no man go beyond and defraud his brother in any matter: because that the Lord is the avenger of all such, as we also have forewarned you and testified.
For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness.

Romans 12:19
Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.

Galatians 6:7
Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.


Bottom line here is... you sin against another person and the Lord will see to it that bad things come upon you!
 
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Since unforgiveness, like any other sin, breaks our fellowship with God, Christians should desire to restore that fellowship. To have fellowship with God, peace in our hearts and minds is worth more than anything else.

Also, thinking about the Fruits of the Spirit, a spirit of unforgiveness hinders regarding those.

22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.
24And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
Galatians 5:22-25

Are we willing to crucify our flesh regarding a spirit of unforgiveness? Or do we harbor a spirit of pride, unwilling to yield?
How do you crucify yourself?
 
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We can yield to the flesh or we can yield to the Holy Spirit in our hearts/lives. A born again Christian should have an inner discernment or conscience about such things.
And you believe this is you being crucified?
 

Pearl

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I meant to walk according to the Holy Spirit.
What you meant was obvious to me. @Debp But it seems that it isn't obvious to everybody. And some people take pleasure in being perverse. All those who are one in spirit with you understood.
 
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L.A.M.B.

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I meant to walk according to the Holy Spirit.
Some start out on here with antagonistic personalities, looking to be controversial.
Don't sweat it, those who know the word and the Spirit and you know what you are saying.
 
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Pearl

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Perhaps He was asking Him to forgive them for not knowing what they should have known about the innocent Man they were putting to death?

I'd appreciate knowing your thoughts on this.
Luke 23:34
Jesus said, “Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing.” At that stage on the cross Jesus was carrying all our sin so he wasn't able to forgive so that's why he asked God the Father.
 
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Papa Smurf

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Luke 23:34
Jesus said, “Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing.” At that stage on the cross Jesus was carrying all our sin so he wasn't able to forgive so that's why he asked God the Father.
Hello Pearl, that is an interesting thought, one that I've never heard before (specifically "when" Jesus became sin for us .. 2 Corinthians 5:21).

The thing that we need to be very careful of, I think, especially when we wade out into the deeper waters concerning Deity, is not allowing our thoughts to move us into the realm of heresy (this reminds me a bit of a discussion that I had some years ago about the Father being the "Fountain" or "Source" of the Godhead, because how can Beings, specifically God the Son and God the Holy Spirit, who have no beginning, have a source?)

So, while it's true that He carried our sins/became sin for us (something which I suppose He could have done from the foundation of the world if He chose to?), never, not even for a split second, did He actually become a "sinner" personally. So, since there was never a point in time when He was not perfectly innocent and perfectly righteous, personally, how could there be a time, then, when He was unable to forgive sin :contemplate:

Also, I believe that it was His death, not His dying, that made/makes atonement for our sins, although He did say, just prior to yielding up His spirit, “ELI, ELI, LAMA SABACHTHANI?” that is, “MY GOD, MY GOD, WHY HAVE YOU FORSAKEN ME?”
(Matthew 27:46)

This is all very interesting, and there is much to consider, so thank you for that :)

God bless you!!

--Papa Smurf


2 Corinthians 5
21 He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.
 
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Ronald David Bruno

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Hello Pearl, that is an interesting thought, one that I've never heard before (specifically "when" Jesus became sin for us .. 2 Corinthians 5:21).

The thing that we need to be very careful of, I think, especially when we wade out into the deeper waters concerning Deity, is not allowing our thoughts to move us into the realm of heresy (this reminds me a bit of a discussion that I had some years ago about the Father being the "Fountain" or "Source" of the Godhead, because how can Beings, specifically God the Son and God the Holy Spirit, who have no beginning, have a source?)

So, while it's true that He carried our sins/became sin for us (something which I suppose He could have done from the foundation of the world if He chose to?), never, not even for a split second, did He actually become a "sinner" personally. So, since there was never a point in time when He was not perfectly innocent and perfectly righteous, personally, how could there be a time, then, when He was unable to forgive sin :contemplate:

Also, I believe that it was His death, not His dying, that made/makes atonement for our sins, although He did say, just prior to yielding up His spirit, “ELI, ELI, LAMA SABACHTHANI?” that is, “MY GOD, MY GOD, WHY HAVE YOU FORSAKEN ME?”
(Matthew 27:46)

This is all very interesting, and there is much to consider, so thank you for that :)

God bless you!!

--Papa Smurf


2 Corinthians 5
21 He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.
Becoming sin for us is not something we can comprehend. Imagine taking on trillions of sins for all time ... and knowing them), one has to be omniscient to do that. There is that kind of spiritual eternal knowledge that we can't fathom. We can barely comprehend the totality of our own sins.
I have been told that the Father turned away from Him, that the Father could not look upon sin. At what point did this happen? Likely when He was arrested in Gethsemane, from that time to death. He was shuffled back and forth from the Sanhedrin, to Pilate, then Herod, and back to Pilate and the mob, then the scourging, the walk to Calvary, being nailed to the cross, to death, He was not incommunicado with the Father. So it was only naturally human to respond, in his exhaustion, pain and suffering, "Why have you forsaken me?" He was also quoting Psalm 22.
Nevertheless, He still asked the Father to "forgive them for they know not what they do".
Not all of them! No, not all are saved.
His purpose, to die for our sins, was a Priestly act of intercession. In the peak of His pain and suffering on the cross with all the mocking, He interceded with a prayer to the Father for the world ( Isaiah 53:22), that they might be saved - if they believe.
This is the meaning of the Cross summed up, FORGIVENESS, that the world would be offered forgiveness, salvation.if only they would seek God and ask.
For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world might be saved through him.
John 3:17
He was on a mission of mercy. Forgive them Father for they know not what they do. They are ignorant. But were the Sanhedrin ignorant? They did not know He was God in the flesh. No, they accused Him of blasphemy, putting Himslef equal to God, and claiming to be able to forgive sin. But did Jesus forgive all? No, I don't think so. He condemned the Pharisees: You brood of vipers... white-washed tombs ... who will save you from the Gehenna? Still the prayer went out to all. How was it answered? Immediately with the criminal next to him, then the centurion changed his mind, then Pentecost came and forgiveness began to flow throughout the world.
Acts 6:7 says many of the priests who condemned him changed their minds and put their faith in him. So it was that Jesus asked the Father to not hold His murder against them, for some will soon know what they did and change their minds and hearts... but not everyone.
 

marks

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When we yield to the Holy Spirit rather than letting the flesh have it's way, that is crucifying the flesh.
Walking in holiness crucifies the flesh. We don't merely deny sin, we walk in the Spirit, which is to allow God to share His love with others through us, and is to enjoy our fellowship with God in our life of devotion.

We shouldn't let the thought of walking in holiness intimidate us, it's what we are born for. Reborn for, that is. Walking in holiness is when we are fulfilling God's purpose for us.

It's easy to think of holiness as simply "not sinning", but the idea is a lot more involved than that.

I like this passage to show the meaning,

Ephesians 4:21-25 KJV
21) If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus:
22) That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
23) And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
24) And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
25) Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another.

We've been recreated in righteousness and true holiness. Righteousness is when we speak the truth, we are doing the right thing. Holiness is when we are living as members one of another, we are living according to exclusively according to His intent. Set apart for His use.

Much love!
 

Starise

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I have enjoyed most of this thread because it reminded me of something I've recently been going through.
I am not one of those spill the beans it's all about me people dumping my life out on the internet for attention, but sometimes I'll make an application to see if anyone else relates to it.
I'm going to be very vauge yet still get the point across and then I would ask if anyone here can relate to it.

I was working with a person who is an unbeliever and having worked with this person for some time I had grown a familiarity with them. To say I care and pray for them is an understatement. I also have a one tracked mind so I don't work well in overly cluttered situations. Out of nowhere pops another person and their opener was not in line with what I would call basic Christian foundational beliefs. They were also adding a little bit of legalism into the mix. It hit me like a ton of bricks and I didn't know what to do with it because I felt like A. It was misinformation and B. They stepped on me to do it.

I didn't want to argue in front of an unbeliever so I kept it bottled up unable to initially identify it or know how to proceed. I should add the person I was ministering to also has a one tracked mind so they dumped me in leu of this other individual who basically took over that game.

I mulled for awhile over it feeling like a ton of bricks had been dumped on my insides. I decided to approach this person by themself ( this was online) They were very neutral and dismissive not wanting to really extend a conversation with me over this. I was not rude in my delivery to them. I am a classic overthinker to the extreme, so thoughts about this were like waves pounding on the shore continually.

I prayed about it and realized only then that I was A. Mad at the person and B. Harboring unforegivness. But what was at the root of it? I had lost what I seen as control over the situation and I felt it was going to negatively affect ministry to this person.

I had to realize control was out of my hands and drop my expectations for the situation, but none of that made me feel any better. In fact I felt worse. I finally came to the realization that "maybe" there was a purpose in all of this and that "maybe" God could use it. I also had to internally be willing to foregive the other person in spite of my theological differences with them. Probably 99% of this was internalized and might seem more trivial to anyone else. I noticed a lot of the things this other person was saying seemed a bit too long and drawn out, but they were actually helpful if we subtracted the fluff.

I have foregiven them, but like a stobbed toe it's still sore. Looking at the bigger picture helped, Praying though it helped. Confessing my bitterness helped.

We can see from this a process is sometimes involved to
-Identify it for what it is and confess it
-Foregive even if the other person has no idea why you were upset to start with.
-Not try to control everything that I am involved in.

I'm not gonna lie, my guts are still churning but I take it to the Lord and lay that cross down daily so as not to hold a grudge. Sometimes these things are not immediate.