Unforgiveness and fellowship with God

[GRACE ambassador]

op: Unforgiveness and fellowship with God?

Yes, agree, sin breaks our 'fellowship' with God, but never The [ Grace Through faith ] Eternal
Relationship He Made with us.

Please forgive me if the following p.o.v. does not clarify for you, as God has for me, ok?:

In God's Context of prophecy / covenants / law:

Forgive others First, Then God Will Forgive!
(Matthew 6:14-15, 18:35; Mark 11:25-26; Luke 6:37)

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That Differ” (online)

In God's Other Context Of [ Today's ] Mystery / GRACE:

Forgive others Because CHRIST Has Already [ Completely ] Forgiven us!
(Ephesians 1:7, 4:32; Colossians 1:14, 2:13, 3:13; Romans 4:7-8)

FULL study:
17 Forgiveness Questions

'Twas a Blessed and Marvelous day indeed
When God Planted in me, This Wonderful 'Seed!'

Amen.

 

[Dan Clarkston]

Since unforgiveness, like any other sin, breaks our fellowship with God, Christians should desire to restore that fellowship. To have fellowship with God, peace in our hearts and minds is worth more than anything else.

It's a good thing all our future sins are already forgiven right?

That means fellowship with the Lord is never actually broken because if it was then we would be separated from Him right?

 

[Papa Smurf]

It's a good thing all our future sins are already forgiven right?

That means fellowship with the Lord is never actually broken because if it was then we would be separated from Him right?

Hello Dan, it's the sense of the closeness of our fellowship with God that's lost when we sin. As King David said to God, "restore unto me the ~JOY~ of Thy salvation" .. Psalm 51:12, not salvation itself, because that was not lost (or broken) ... and as I just noticed that @GRACE ambassador has already pointed out for us above (Post #241).

God bless you!!

--Papa Smurf

 

[dev553344]

Since unforgiveness, like any other sin, breaks our fellowship with God, Christians should desire to restore that fellowship. To have fellowship with God, peace in our hearts and minds is worth more than anything else.

Also, thinking about the Fruits of the Spirit, a spirit of unforgiveness hinders regarding those.

22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.
24And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
Galatians 5:22-25

Are we willing to crucify our flesh regarding a spirit of unforgiveness? Or do we harbor a spirit of pride, unwilling to yield?

Hi @Debp,

If we are called to be judges under God then we can forgive who we will and let some remain unforgiven:

John 20:23 If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.”

Satan and his angels are a prime example of those that should not be forgiven or given a place in our hearts. And there are the sons of the devil and they are likewise.

 

[Papa Smurf]

Satan and his angels are a prime example of those that should not be forgiven or given a place in our hearts. And there are the sons of the devil and they are likewise.

Hi Dev, how can we tell who the "sons of the devil" are so that we will know who to forgive and who not to forgive (such divisions among us are best left to the angels at the end of the age, are they not .. e.g. Matthew 13:24-30)?

Also, are we not to forgive any and all who ask us to forgive them?

Thanks

God bless you!!

--Papa Smurf

 

[dev553344]

Hi Dev, how can we tell who the "sons of the devil" are so that we will know who to forgive and who not to forgive (such divisions among us are best left to the angels at the end of the age, are they not .. e.g. Matthew 13:24-30)?

Also, are we not to forgive any and all who ask us to forgive them?

Thanks

God bless you!!

--Papa Smurf

Sons of the devil are spelled out in the bible. But I believe the way it works is that if God selects you as a judge, then you will be given discernment from the Holy Ghost on who is not forgiven and who is. The apostles would have heard from God on who that is.

If someone then wants forgiveness then they must seek God on the matter to gain forgiveness from God and the apostles.

Remember the apostles do God's will, and God will decide who is not forgiven.

 

[dev553344]

You could start a thread on that: Do we forgive the devil and his dark angels that torture people and teach men to do evil. And do we forgive the sons of the devil that love to do wickedness? Both have made themselves enemies to God and his saints.

And if a man says he wants to be forgiven, is he telling you the truth? Or is he a wolf looking for opportunity to take advantage of the sheep. And if you've forgiven an insincere attempt and open yourself up to further injury is that wise?

Matthew 5:38 “You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.’ 39 But I tell you not to resist an evil person. But whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also. 40 If anyone wants to sue you and take away your tunic, let him have your cloak also.

And I have had God tell me to stay away from certain people, as God will decide who I turn my cheek to. And he will decide if I have a different path in life that he desires rather than repeatedly being injured by a sadistic person.

 

[Dan Clarkston]

it's the sense of the closeness of our fellowship with God that's lost when we sin.

But we still go to heaven anyway right? Since all our future sins are already forgiven?

If someone then wants forgiveness then they must seek God on the matter to gain forgiveness from God and the apostles.

Wow! So if one of God's apostles doesn't forgive somebody they go to hell?

Never heard anybody teach that before

So are these apostles like the TV preachers? How do we know which ones are apostles?

 

[dev553344]

Wow! So if one of God's apostles doesn't forgive somebody they go to hell?

Never heard anybody teach that before

So are these apostles like the TV preachers? How do we know which ones are apostles?

Yes that is what John 20:23 testified of. If the apostle didn't forgive them they don't go to heaven and remain unforgiven.

I suppose there might be some confusion on who has authority to forgive and who doesn't. We see this all the time when a preacher in church tells someone their saved. And in order for the preacher to confirm that God has declared them forgiven and thus saved, he is either being blasphemous, or telling the truth. I see many people going around telling people they are saved. Did God tell them that? Did God forgive their sins.

Long story short I'll wait for God to tell me I'm saved. I don't boast in my own salvation and tell people I'm saved.

 

[Debp]

it's the sense of the closeness of our fellowship with God that's lost when we sin. As King David said to God, "restore unto me the ~JOY~ of Thy salvation" .. Psalm 51:12, not salvation itself, because that was not lost (or broken) ... and as I just noticed that @GRACE ambassador has already pointed out for us above (Post #241)

Well stated, thanks. That's what I was meaning.

 

[Pearl]

But we still go to heaven anyway right? Since all our future sins are already forgiven?

We don't come to Jesus with the idea of carrying on as before. When we come to him it's because we accept that we are sinners who need to repent - turn our back on our old sinful life. To continue to live with out that desire to be changed and made new is a bit of a slap in the face for Jesus.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

We don't come to Jesus with the idea of carrying on as before. When we come to him it's because we accept that we are sinners who need to repent - turn our back on our old sinful life. To continue to live with out that desire to be changed and made new is a bit of a slap in the face for Jesus.

Amen!

We come because we are dead and need saved. But once we are saved, we are attached to the vine to produce fruit. Our mission is to serve others and bring others into the body. Not to serve the flesh.. Which a true believer should have no real desire to do anymore.

 

[Dan Clarkston]

If the apostle didn't forgive them they don't go to heaven and remain unforgiven.

This conflicts with what I've been hearing which is all our future sins have a;ready been forgiven and it's not possible to lose our salvation at all.

 

[Dan Clarkston]

We don't come to Jesus with the idea of carrying on as before. When we come to him it's because we accept that we are sinners who need to repent - turn our back on our old sinful life. To continue to live with out that desire to be changed and made new is a bit of a slap in the face for Jesus.

None the less, it sounds like we cannot lose our salvation right?

 

[Pearl]

None the less, it sounds like we cannot lose our salvation right?

Being saved is just the start, and I'm not going to tell you to carry on living your worldly life of using drugs and having sex with a woman you're not married to. You at least need to want to live righteously as that is the reason most people want to be saved. If in your heart you want to keep living the same way as before and have no intention of changing then you are not saved. Words alone don't save you, it is the intention of the heart because God sees your heart and knows if you are genuine.

Psalm 51:17
My sacrifice, O God, is a broken spirit; a broken and contrite heart you, God, will not despise.

To be born again and continue to live the old worldly life will grieve the Holy Spirit and we are told not to do that.

Ephesians 4:29
Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen. And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. Get rid of all bitterness, rage and anger, brawling and slander, along with every form of malice.​

And then there's also:

Philippians 4:8
Finally, brothers and sisters, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things.

We all have a thing called a conscience. And if Jesus lives in us we should listen to our consciences and not do, say or think anything that Jesus would not like.

 

[Pearl]

None the less, it sounds like we cannot lose our salvation right?

Are you sure your 'salvation' is genuine and not just saying the words somebody wanted you to say. You seem very determined to carry on regardless with your old life.

 

[dev553344]

This conflicts with what I've been hearing which is all our future sins have a;ready been forgiven and it's not possible to lose our salvation at all.

Then you're going to love this forum to pieces. As there are many that would disagree with that concept.

 

[Dan Clarkston]

If in your heart you want to keep living the same way as before and have no intention of changing then you are not saved.

Does this mean salvation is not by faith alone as I hear a lot of people say?

If I have to do some works, what works are expected in order to be saved?

Are you sure your 'salvation' is genuine and not just saying the words somebody wanted you to say. You seem very determined to carry on regardless with your old life.

They say salvation is by faith alone right?

If it's not by faith alone then HOW do we know we are saved?

Then you're going to love this forum to pieces. As there are many that would disagree with that concept.

So far everyone I've talked to on this forum seem to agree that it's not possible to ever lose your salvation.

Even had someone send me a private message telling me to not worry about any of this, that I'm saved, period!

 

[Pearl]

They say salvation is by faith alone right?

If it's not by faith alone then HOW do we know we are saved?

Do you have that faith? Are you sure that your sinners prayer was in genuine repentance and giving your life to Jesus and dying to your self?

These are questions you would be better of discussing with your pastor. As you seem to be getting more confused by the answers on here.

 

[GRACE ambassador]

If it's not by faith alone then HOW do we know we are saved?

Precious friend, actually it is not 'by faith alone', but Is:

"...By Grace are ye Saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is​

The Gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast." (Ephesians 2:8-9)
​

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