Whether intentional or not you have insinuated that I'm a potential false teacher since I'm the one who started this thread. However, my beliefs do not undermine scripture, the 66 books found in most protestant bibles. I believe that sound and harmonious doctrine can and has been found in scripture. My beliefs don't undermine scripture but uphold and establish them as the only source by which we can recognize our father and savior, Yahweh and Yehushua. My beliefs also affirm scripture as the only sound starting point for all knowledge and wisdom. That said, I don't weild that sword without thought. We must handle that blade with the care of a sword master. If you are sparring against a friend or brother then to try and kill him/her with the blade is unloving.
Unity
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aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
I think the scariest thing for some Christians is to meet another Christian who follows God's word and is mostly in agreement with them, yet has come to a different conclusion on issues that have been held up as a dividing marker between saved and unsaved, orthodox and heresy. Unfortunately, that fear often motivates the Christian to try and prove that the other really is a heretic or a liberal or whatever, as long as it discredits his conclusion and purges him from the Body. It is sad for me to see that many Christians are just as fervent about 'pansting the accused heretic' as they are about trying to convert the unbeliever.
I need to say something that you may find hard to hear Aspen, so I hope you will listen with an open heart....
Love without Jesus is sinful....and we find Jesus at the centre of correct doctrine. So it is impossible to say that we need more love and less doctrine. We must have both...for only then will our doctrine point to godly love, and our love glorify Jesus in all. When these two go hand in hand, then we can really help people in a way that will truly save them, body and soul.
I know you don't have a problem with 'correct' doctrine...but sometimes I do think you put to light an emphasis on it. Truly....sound doctrine is as important as Christian love....
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
Not hard to hear - I agree completely. Love without Jesus is self love. We do not need more love we need to put more emphasis on it. Christians spend all their time talking about doctrine, rarely about love. The proof of this is recorded on this message board. Doctrine without Jesus is haughty and arrogant. We need both. Sometimes, however, I think Christians think of love as an unnecessary desert after a large satisfying meal of doctrine.
Agreed! Love and doctrine aren't dinner and desert....they're more like...um...milk and chocolate cake...gotta have them together or what's the point!
And I also agree that we see too much of that inharmonious coupling...sound doctrine is often given in a harsh and unloving way, or someone will try to lovingly accept that which is just unbiblical. It's a tricky line to walk for us sinners...and no matter how we try, sometimes we just have cake left with no milk!!
Sr Brandon,
I second what Jon-Marc wrote, that believers divide (and sadly sometimes fall out) over disputable matters (non salvational) Style of worship and style of churchmanship were already different in the NT and different churches had different emphasis and strengths according to how the Spirit lead. Heresy and false teaching is that which is contrary to the NT teaching, not interpretation.
Liberalism doesnt like the idea of being corrected or rebuked by scripture where is it uncomfortable with scripture. .
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It wasn’t intentional. I was juts reflecting what the scripture says.
I second what Jon-Marc wrote, that believers divide (and sadly sometimes fall out) over disputable matters (non salvational) Style of worship and style of churchmanship were already different in the NT and different churches had different emphasis and strengths according to how the Spirit lead. Heresy and false teaching is that which is contrary to the NT teaching, not interpretation.
There is something wrong with your analogy. One cant kill a brother with the blade, if one did one wouldn’t have been a brother in the first place.
Liberalism doesnt like the idea of being corrected or rebuked by scripture where is it uncomfortable with scripture. .
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Just some thoughts and scriptures that I've seen concerning unity and division in an ongoing study.
God divided light and darkness, land and sea, holy from the profane, nations and languages among other divisions seen in the scriptures.
Matthew 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
Matthew 10:35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
Matthew 10:36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
In Ezekiel's temple when the measurements were being shown to him we see a division between the sanctuary and the profane place.
Ezekiel 42:20 He measured it by the four sides: it had a wall round about, five hundred reeds long, and five hundred broad, to make a separation between the sanctuary and the profane place.
Matthew 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
Matthew 25:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
Matthew 25:33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
Throughout the NT, there were divisions when people could not agree on whom Jesus is.
John 7:40 Many of the people therefore, when they heard this saying, said, Of a truth this is the Prophet.
John 7:41 Others said, This is the Christ. But some said, Shall Christ come out of Galilee?
John 7:42 Hath not the scripture said, That Christ cometh of the seed of David, and out of the town of Bethlehem, where David was?
John 7:43 So there was a division among the people because of him.
John 9:16 Therefore said some of the Pharisees, This man is not of God, because he keepeth not the sabbath day. Others said, How can a man that is a sinner do such miracles? And there was a division among them.
The world's idea of unity is not the same as God's instruction for unity.
Philippians 2:1 If there be therefore any consolation in Christ, if any comfort of love, if any fellowship of the Spirit, if any bowels and mercies,
Philippians 2:2 Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind.
Unity starts with Christ being the head, keeping God first in all things and not leaning on our own understanding.
God divided light and darkness, land and sea, holy from the profane, nations and languages among other divisions seen in the scriptures.
Matthew 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
Matthew 10:35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
Matthew 10:36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
In Ezekiel's temple when the measurements were being shown to him we see a division between the sanctuary and the profane place.
Ezekiel 42:20 He measured it by the four sides: it had a wall round about, five hundred reeds long, and five hundred broad, to make a separation between the sanctuary and the profane place.
Matthew 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
Matthew 25:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
Matthew 25:33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
Throughout the NT, there were divisions when people could not agree on whom Jesus is.
John 7:40 Many of the people therefore, when they heard this saying, said, Of a truth this is the Prophet.
John 7:41 Others said, This is the Christ. But some said, Shall Christ come out of Galilee?
John 7:42 Hath not the scripture said, That Christ cometh of the seed of David, and out of the town of Bethlehem, where David was?
John 7:43 So there was a division among the people because of him.
John 9:16 Therefore said some of the Pharisees, This man is not of God, because he keepeth not the sabbath day. Others said, How can a man that is a sinner do such miracles? And there was a division among them.
The world's idea of unity is not the same as God's instruction for unity.
Philippians 2:1 If there be therefore any consolation in Christ, if any comfort of love, if any fellowship of the Spirit, if any bowels and mercies,
Philippians 2:2 Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind.
Unity starts with Christ being the head, keeping God first in all things and not leaning on our own understanding.
Episkopos,
I feel there is a unity in Christ with all believers, be they RC, Anglican, Lutheran, Baptist, non-denominational. The differences dont dive our faith in Christ. I feel there is a whole of lot countefit christianity as well.. and we dont have unity with that.
I feel there is a unity in Christ with all believers, be they RC, Anglican, Lutheran, Baptist, non-denominational. The differences dont dive our faith in Christ. I feel there is a whole of lot countefit christianity as well.. and we dont have unity with that.
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