Unlike Amillennialism, Premillennialism is based on assumptions and speculation rather than on any clear, straightforward scriptures

[Spiritual Israelite]

There's no "interpret in isolation", your claim tells me you don't know me. I want to do no such thing. I want you to interpret as it is presented, along with the rest of the Scriptures. And you will find they harmonize without having to negate any of them.

Then why are you unwilling to show how your interpretation harmonizes with the scriptures I posted in the second post of this thread? Your understanding of Revelation 20 includes the idea that there will be mortals on the earth after Jesus returns that Jesus will rule over. Who are those mortals exactly that would survive His return? Please show me how that interpretation harmonizes with these passages:

2 Thessalonians 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, 8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: 9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; 10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

1 Thessalonians 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. 3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. 4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

 

[WPM]

This is his cue to run away and stop responding. Any time a Premil is asked to actually put their money where their mouth is, they disappear.

I know. Their boasts are all noise They have nothing. They have much to hide. They are in love with man's teaching.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I know. Their boats are all noise They have nothing. They have much to hide. They are in love with man's teaching.

As I predicted, he's now nowhere to be found because you asked him questions that would force him to actually take a closer look at Revelation 20 and at how he can reconcile it with the rest of scripture, which he clearly doesn't want to do. No Premill wants to do that, as threads like this prove.

 

[marks]

Then why are you unwilling to show how your interpretation harmonizes with the scriptures I posted in the second post of this thread?

Not as a dodge so you can avoid answering my challenge. If you want to do this, start at the beginning. You challenged me to respond to something in your posts and so I did. And even to now there has been no meaningful response given. Only moving the goalposts, countless ad hominems, and many deflections to other things.

I did as you requested. And now you won't follow thru.

And if Revelation 20 is meant to be read exactly according to the words used in their normal and customary meanings at the time of writing, then proceeding to post #2 will look a whole lot different.

Even so, I've responded concerning several of your 2nd post passages. With no better response than anything else.

As I predicted, he's now nowhere to be found because you asked him questions that would force him to actually take a closer look at Revelation 20 and at how he can reconcile it with the rest of scripture, which he clearly doesn't want to do. No Premill wants to do that, as threads like this prove.

More of the same nonsense.

At the end of the day, I'll be saying, read it like it's written, and you will be saying, While it says this, it actually means that.

So show me where the Bible says, and not just your opinion, that Revelation 20 shouldn't be believe in the customary way language is used?

It's been nothing but crickets on that.

Much love!

 

[WPM]

Not as a dodge so you can avoid answering my challenge. If you want to do this, start at the beginning. You challenged me to respond to something in your posts and so I did. And even to now there has been no meaningful response given. Only moving the goalposts, countless ad hominems, and many deflections to other things.

I did as you requested. And now you won't follow thru.

And if Revelation 20 is meant to be read exactly according to the words used in their normal and customary meanings at the time of writing, then proceeding to post #2 will look a whole lot different.

Even so, I've responded concerning several of your 2nd post passages. With no better response than anything else.

More of the same nonsense.

At the end of the day, I'll be saying, read it like it's written, and you will be saying, While it says this, it actually means that.

So show me where the Bible says, and not just your opinion, that Revelation 20 shouldn't be believe in the customary way language is used?

It's been nothing but crickets on that.

Much love!

What do you mean "customary way"? You mean your way. The Amil position has been the preeminent position in Christendom since the early Church.

The fate of Satan, the beast (spirit of antichrist / mystery of iniquity) and the fallen angels (demons) are all knit together in Scripture. When Satan was banished from the Garden then all evil was. They also all came under the same spiritual subjugation at the exact same time through Christ’s earthly ministry.

When Christ bound Satan’s kingdom through His life, death and resurrection then all were bound. 2 Peter 2:4, Jude v 6, Revelation 9 and Revelation 20 all prove the whole demonic realm has been restrained from stopping the free-flow of the Gospel. The bruising of the head of the beast (Revelation 13:3, 13:12 and 13:14) correlates with the bruising of the head of Satan 2,000 years ago through the earthly ministry of Christ (Genesis 3:15). They correspond with the spiritual binding imprisoning of Satan during the millennial period. These are figurative metaphors describing the impairment of the kingdom of darkness 2000 years ago.

When Satan was banished from heaven, so was the whole demonic realm (1/3 of the angels went with him).

Through his defeat, Satan fell from heaven (John 12:31 & Revelation 12:7-9) and is now present in the Abyss (Revelation 9:1-11 & Revelation 20:3). The abyss is not a physical geographical place. After all, physical metal chains cannot hold spirits. It is a spiritual state of restraint for spirits now. Near the end, the beast will be released from his restraints and the “deadly wound” to his head will be “healed” (Revelation 13:3, 13:12 and 13:14). This tells us that he too was bruised like Satan’s head through the life, death and resurrection of Christ.

Just like Satan’s power and influence were curtailed through the life, death and first resurrection of Christ, so too was the beast’s. The fate of the two mirror each other. The reason is, the beast is dependent upon the power of Satan to do his evil. The beast is his envoy or enforcer. At the end Satan will be released from his restraint to empower the beast to subjugate the Church, curtail the Gospel expanse and deceive the nations again. There will be a suppression of the Gospel in the last of the last days. This will result in deep persecution. But the darkest days in history have always been the brightest days in history.

When Satan is released before the second coming for a little season then so is the beast, and Satan's minions. We see the devils in Revelation 9:2-3, the beast in 2 Thessalonians 2:3-12, Revelation 11:7 and Revelation 17:8, and Satan in Revelation 9:10-11 and Revelation 20:3 all being released before the second coming for a little season. Then comes the end! But Christ comes in majestic and eternal glory to overthrow the kingdom of darkness forever. The demonic realm is all killed when Satan is destroyed at the climactic second coming (Isaiah 26:19-27:1, 2 Thessalonians 2:8, Revelation 19:20, 20:9-10).

 

[marks]

What do you mean "customary way"? You mean your way. The Amil position has been the preeminent position in Christendom since the early Church.

No, I mean the Historical Grammatical Hermeneutic, which is to say, how did they understand their words when they spoke them.

For a simple example, no matter how many people today think that when Jesus said the angels would gather the chosen when He returned that He meant gentiles, that's not how the Jewish speaker or listener in that would would understand it. When Jesus referred to the chosen, and a few minutes later to the nations, they would all know, Israel, and the Gentiles.

As far as amil being since the early church, let's go back further still.

Acts 1:6-7 KJV
6) When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
7) And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.

These all acted like they thought it was a real thing. Including Jesus.

He had previously prophesied,

Matthew 19:28 KJV
28) And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

So there's really no question that they, including Jesus, thought there was a coming kingdom, and that the Apostles would be judging the tribes of Israel.

Much love!

 

[WPM]

No, I mean the Historical Grammatical Hermeneutic, which is to say, how did they understand their words when they spoke them.

For a simple example, no matter how many people today think that when Jesus said the angels would gather the chosen when He returned that He meant gentiles, that's not how the Jewish speaker or listener in that would would understand it. When Jesus referred to the chosen, and a few minutes later to the nations, they would all know, Israel, and the Gentiles.

As far as amil being since the early church, let's go back further still.

Acts 1:6-7 KJV
6) When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
7) And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.

These all acted like they thought it was a real thing. Including Jesus.

He had previously prophesied,

Matthew 19:28 KJV
28) And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

So there's really no question that they, including Jesus, thought there was a coming kingdom, and that the Apostles would be judging the tribes of Israel.

Much love!

Amils believe in the Historical Grammatical Hermeneutic mode of interpretation.

Where do any of these texts mention some supposed future millennium?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Not as a dodge so you can avoid answering my challenge. If you want to do this, start at the beginning. You challenged me to respond to something in your posts and so I did. And even to now there has been no meaningful response given. Only moving the goalposts, countless ad hominems, and many deflections to other things.

I did as you requested. And now you won't follow thru.

And if Revelation 20 is meant to be read exactly according to the words used in their normal and customary meanings at the time of writing, then proceeding to post #2 will look a whole lot different.

Even so, I've responded concerning several of your 2nd post passages. With no better response than anything else.

I don't know who you think you're fooling here, but you're not fooling me. You are doing NOTHING to show how your interpretation of Revelation 20 can be reconciled with the rest of scripture. Are you afraid to do so? I responded to your responses relating to the passages I referenced in my second post and then you never followed up after that. Why is that? Can you tell me how you interpret those passages?

You asked me if I believe that what is described in 2 Peter 3:10-12 happens right when Jesus returns and I said yes, and then you never responded again. Can you tell me how you interpret these passages:

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

1 Thessalonians 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. 3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. 4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

More of the same nonsense.

At the end of the day, I'll be saying, read it like it's written, and you will be saying, While it says this, it actually means that.

So show me where the Bible says, and not just your opinion, that Revelation 20 shouldn't be believe in the customary way language is used?

How many times do I have to tell you that my understanding of Revelation 20 is based on my overall understanding of all of scripture? What do you not understand about that? My doctrine is based on clear, straightforward scriptures like the ones I referenced in the second post of this thread. Those passages explicitly teach that Jesus started reigning after His resurrection, that His followers were made priests at that time, that all unbelievers will be killed when Jesus returns, that heaven and earth will pass away when Jesus returns, that the dead are all resurrected at generally the same time, and that all people are judged at the same time. That is my response to any question you have about how I interpret Revelation 20. How about you address at least one or two of those passages in detail instead of just the little bit you mentioned a few of them without showing how you actually interpret them?

 

[Taken]

LOL. I understand what he's saying and that it doesn't agree with what scripture teaches, which is what makes it nonsense. Anything that contradicts scripture is nonsense. He tries to apply a scripture that talks about enduring to the end in order to be saved

to supposed tribulation saints

No. That Applies to Those Who Believe, but are Not Converted.

and acts like that can't apply to us.

A “saint is a Believer WHO has been made Whole…
Heartfully Believes…
Body dead
Soul saved
Spirit Quickened
They DO NOT “hope they “endure” to the End of Their Life”… The Power that which Made them Whole, Dwells IN Them…
Ding, ding, ding… IN Christ!
Christ IS the Power of God.
Ya think there IS ANY Power Greater than Gods, that Can Supersede, and Keep that individual From Being With God? Pfff.

Greater is he that is IN you, than he that is in the world.

That's nonsense. He tries to differentiate between those who are in Christ and those who are saved during a future tribulation period as if they would not be in Christ.

Did ya like the passages about Noah?
When God Shut the door to the Ark…
No others could Enter into the Ark.

When Those IN Christ ARE (like Noah) risen up off the Earth…
The Remaining during the Trib, that DO Become saved… are Saved by God…
Primarily and Firstly … ISRAEL , fulfilling Gods Promise to THEM!!

That's nonsense. Any such people would also be in Christ.

Why? He has gathered to Him, Those Prepared…In Christ…

All believers are in Christ regardless of when they become saved.

No.
All believers are Not IN Christ.
No.
The door is Shut After the Rapture.

Luke 13:
[25] When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are:

Umpteen Scriptural teachings, From Noah’s Ark, to a mans home, to the Rapture… of Shutting the Door after The gathered have entered…
The door is not opened for late comers, having not been summoned TO ENTER!

Do you agree with all of the things he posted there or would you say that at least some of what he said does not make sense scripturally?

Making “sense”… is For the satisfaction of a Carnal Mind concluding what is logically acceptable…

Spiritual Understanding… is NOT based on Carnal minded logic or sense.

Carnally mindedness makes No logical sense to believe in something you can Not, see, hear, taste, smell, touch!

Spiritual Understanding is a Gift from the Lord God TO Those WITH the Lord God.



You seem to not know the Difference between a believer and a converted believer…and seem to rely heavily on carnal minded logic to conclude understanding of Scripture.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

No, I mean the Historical Grammatical Hermeneutic, which is to say, how did they understand their words when they spoke them.

For a simple example, no matter how many people today think that when Jesus said the angels would gather the chosen when He returned that He meant gentiles, that's not how the Jewish speaker or listener in that would would understand it. When Jesus referred to the chosen, and a few minutes later to the nations, they would all know, Israel, and the Gentiles.

It doesn't matter what they understood or would have thought at that time. Are you somehow unaware that the disciples were mistaken about a number of things at that point, but they learned the truth about those things later after they received the Holy Spirit who taught them the real meaning of those things?

The New Testament clearly teaches that the elect (chosen) are all of those who belong to Christ including Jew and Gentile believers. Why would we think that a future gathering of the elect would not be a gathering of those that the New Testament calls the elect?

Romans 8:33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

Do you understand that this verse is talking about all who belong to God, including both Jew and Gentile believers?

As far as amil being since the early church, let's go back further still.

Acts 1:6-7 KJV
6) When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
7) And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.

These all acted like they thought it was a real thing. Including Jesus.

How convenient for you to stop there and not include verse 8 where Jesus talks about the nature of the kingdom which He said elsewhere would not come with observation (Luke 17:20) and is not of this world (John 18:36).

Acts 1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

The kingdom came with power on the day of Pentecost when the Holy Spirit came to dwell in believers. There were over 3,000 Jews saved that day. Jesus didn't bother correcting the disciples misunderstandings at that time because He knew they would understand later.

He had previously prophesied,

Matthew 19:28 KJV
28) And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

So there's really no question that they, including Jesus, thought there was a coming kingdom, and that the Apostles would be judging the tribes of Israel.

Much love!

But, what does that mean for them to judge the tribes of Israel? Judging is not the same as ruling for a thousand years. It just means that the apostles will be participating in the judgment that will occur when Jesus returns which Jesus talked about in Matthew 25:31-46. Do you know that we will judge the world and will even judge angels? Do you think that has anything to do with ruling over the world and over angels for a thousand years?

1 Corinthians 6:2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters? 3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

Where are the clear, straightforward passages that support your Premill doctrine? There aren't any. Meanwhile, you won't bother addressing any of the clear, straightforward passages I referenced in the second post of this thread. You briefly talked about a few of them and then just stopped. You didn't give your interpretation of any of them to show how they can be reconciled with your Premill belief.

 

[marks]

I don't know who you think you're fooling here, but you're not fooling me. You are doing NOTHING to show how your interpretation of Revelation 20 can be reconciled with the rest of scripture.

Again a deflection! No, I don't think anyone is fooling anyone. And this is fruitless. Have a great weekend!

Much love!

 

[covenantee]

Acts 1:6-7 KJV
6) When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
7) And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.

These all acted like they thought it was a real thing. Including Jesus.

Jesus' response to the disciples' question is instructive. He refers to times and seasons.

Exegetically, times and seasons are associated with the day of the Lord, which is the final end of all things temporal.

Paul clarifies it.

1 Thessalonians 5
1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

Peter completes it.

2 Peter 3
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.


There is not the slightest hint of a carnal restored kingdom of Israel in Jesus' response.

The disciples caught on quickly and never again brought up the subject.

Jesus had made it clear that Israel was stripped of its kingdom, and under impending judgment and destruction. (Matthew 21:33-45)

That judgment and destruction fell upon it in 70 AD.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

No. That Applies to Those Who Believe, but are Not Converted.

So, you're saying tribulation saints are not converted. Not saved. Where do you get that idea from? Scripture never refers to an unsaved person as a saint.

A “saint is a Believer WHO has been made Whole…
Heartfully Believes…
Body dead
Soul saved
Spirit Quickened
They DO NOT “hope they “endure” to the End of Their Life”… The Power that which Made them Whole, Dwells IN Them…
Ding, ding, ding… IN Christ!
Christ IS the Power of God.
Ya think there IS ANY Power Greater than Gods, that Can Supersede, and Keep that individual From Being With God? Pfff.

Greater is he that is IN you, than he that is in the world.

I agree, but not sure what your point is here as it relates to the topic of this thread.

Did ya like the passages about Noah?
When God Shut the door to the Ark…
No others could Enter into the Ark.

When Those IN Christ ARE (like Noah) risen up off the Earth…
The Remaining during the Trib, that DO Become saved… are Saved by God…
Primarily and Firstly … ISRAEL , fulfilling Gods Promise to THEM!!

When Jesus compared what would occur at His second coming in comparison to what happened after the door of the ark was closed, He didn't teach anything about a time of tribulation occurring at that point. He taught that just as all unbelievers were killed by the flood the day the ark was closed, all unbelievers will be killed on the day He comes again. He taught in relation to that that two people would be together with one being taken and one left. One taken up to meet Christ in the air and one left to be killed (read Luke 17:26-37). Not left to survive and live through a tribulation. Killed just like those who were left out of the ark. That doesn't leave any mortals on the earth at that point to either go through a time of tribulation as pre-tribs believe or enter into the millennial kingdom, as post-trib premils believe.

Why? He has gathered to Him, Those Prepared…In Christ…

No.
All believers are Not IN Christ.
No.
The door is Shut After the Rapture.

All true believers are in Christ. There is no other kind of believer than a true believer. Jesus said that anyone who is not with Him is against Him (Matthew 12:30). So, everyone is either in Christ or they are not. Those who are not will be killed when He comes again just like everyone left out of the ark was killed by the flood.

Making “sense”… is For the satisfaction of a Carnal Mind concluding what is logically acceptable…

Spiritual Understanding… is NOT based on Carnal minded logic or sense.

Carnally mindedness makes No logical sense to believe in something you can Not, see, hear, taste, smell, touch!

Spiritual Understanding is a Gift from the Lord God TO Those WITH the Lord God.

You should be concerned that you are lacking in spiritual understanding then. You are contradicting Jesus by having mortal survivors of His return when He indicated no such thing at all.

You seem to not know the Difference between a believer and a converted believer…and seem to rely heavily on carnal minded logic to conclude understanding of Scripture.

I know that you are just making up that concept. The only kind of believer is a converted believer. Anyone else is not a believer at all, but instead is a child of the devil and is lost and needs to repent.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Again a deflection! No, I don't think anyone is fooling anyone. And this is fruitless. Have a great weekend!

Much love!

You are the one constantly deflecting. No matter how much I ask you to address the scriptures I referenced in the second post, you will not do it. You can't think that just briefly mentioning a few of them as you did without giving your interpretation of them counts. You clearly have no confidence in your doctrine or else you would not run away from the challenge of backing it up by showing how the scriptures I referenced can be reconciled with Premill. You are not fooling anyone here with how you are doing anything you can to avoid addressing those scriptures.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Amils believe in the Historical Grammatical Hermeneutic mode of interpretation.

Where do any of these texts mention some supposed future millennium?

He proved yet again that Premil is not based on any clear, straightforward scriptures. The Premils are proving my point for me in this thread. In no way, shape or form do Acts 1:6-7 or Matthew 19:28 support Premil. All they have are scriptures that they take out of context to support their doctrine. That's it.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Revelation 11:15-17 KJV
15) And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
16) And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
17) Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.

When is the 7th trumpet sounded?

Much love!

I was going through and reviewing the thread and I somehow missed this post. The seventh trumpet sounds when Jesus returns. Why do you ask?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

How about you address what the passage does say instead of what it doesn't say?

Matthew 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away. 36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. 37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, 39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Jesus related the passing away of heaven and earth with His second coming and He indicated that no one knows the day or hour He will come. He compared His coming directly to what happened in Noah's day when the day Noah entered the ark all unbelievers will be destroyed. Regarding that, He said "so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.". So, do you agree that all unbelievers will be destroyed when He comes? I suppose as a pre-trib you might agree with that, but then try to say that the mortals who populate the supposed earthly kingdom after that are believers, but that would contradict Matthew 25:31-46. It also would contradict Jesus saying that heaven and earth will pass away when He comes, which lines up with what Peter taught in 2 Peter 3:10-12.

@marks You never responded to what I said here. Why not? Can you tell me how you interpret the passage?

Yes, of course. That is what the text indicates. Paul wrote about the same event here...

1 Thessalonians 5:2 for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. 3 While people are saying, “Peace and safety,” destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape. 4 But you, brothers and sisters, are not in darkness so that this day should surprise you like a thief.

Paul said that the destruction that accompanies the Lord's return will happen suddenly and unexpectedly like a thief in the night and he said "they will not escape". Do you think the destruction Paul wrote about here will happen right after Jesus arrives? If so, then why would you not think the same of what Peter wrote in 2 Peter 3:10-12 about the same event? It's no wonder that Paul said "they will not escape" since the sudden destruction will be caused by fire coming down on the entire earth.

You also never responded to what I said here where I responded to your question about how I interpret 2 Peter 3:6-7,10-12 which is that I see it as describing the burning up of the earth when Jesus returns. Can you tell me how you interpret 1 Thessalonians 5:2-3 and 2 Peter 3:10-12 and how you reconcile passages like those with your doctrine?

 

[Taken]

Those passages explicitly teach that Jesus started reigning after His resurrection,

Jesus explicitly revealed His Kingdom, is Not of “this World” ( Earth) but exists In Heaven…
That didn’t occur After His Resurrection. He came to Earth from His Kingdom, Returned to His Kingdom, Shall Return to Earth, and Claim Earth to be included In His Kingdom.

that all unbelievers will be killed when Jesus returns…

When Jesus Returns to Earth, is A Specific Time…Event.
It is 1,000 years passage of time, With Jesus ON Earth, before Humans become extinct.

that heaven and earth will pass away when Jesus returns,

Not “When” Jesus returns, rather 1,000 years After Jesus Returns.

that the dead are all resurrected at generally the same time,

Dead humans have BEEN “resurrected” for centuries.
Example:
* A dead boy, “resurrected”, resumed Living.
1 Kings 17
* A dead and buried man for 4 days named Lazarus, “resurrected”, resumed living.
John 11: 43,44
* Accounts, of men having no fame, dying, drowning, no pulse, no breath, pronounced dead, being resurrected, resume living.
* Prophecy, Rapture, Resurrection, Redemption, of those IN Christ.
* Prophecy, First Resurrection.
* Prophecy, Last Resurrection

and that all people are judged at the same time.

Men are Regularly. Routinely JUDGED… Judged, a believer…
Judged, Faithful…
Judged, having fallen from Faith…
Judged Worthy to Be Saved, Made Whole…
Judged, Righteous…
Judged, UnRighteous…
Judged, worthy to Suffer Spiritual Wrath…
Judged, Worthy to Escape Spiritual Wrath…
Judged, on Works that Glorify God.
Judged, on Works, that do Not Glorify God.

IT IS the “Judge-MENTS”…that “Routinely” …
Put the “Judging into Effect.”

The last days “JUDGEMENTS”…
7 Seals
7 Trumps
7 Bowls
Are Judgements poured out upon the Earth and its “inhabitants” “Judged”… worthy to Receive (one or all of those “Negative” Judgements).

A Similitude to Noah’s Days…
The Saved and Unsaved Separated..
Of God Saving a few…and “Keeping Records in His Books of Evidence”…
And Using the Earth to Destroy / Unrighteousness… of Earth and its unrighteous inhabitants.

Gen 6:
[13] And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.

…address at least one or two of those passages in detail

Judging and Judgements, occur routinely.
The Sentencing…is the Final Declaration, for an Individual to eternally Be WITH or WITHOUT the Lord God.

 

[Taken]

So, you're saying tribulation saints are not converted. Not saved. Where do you get that idea from? Scripture never refers to an unsaved person as a saint.

What IS the meaning of your term…
“Tribulation saints”?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Jesus explicitly revealed His Kingdom, is Not of “this World” ( Earth) but exists In Heaven…
That didn’t occur After His Resurrection. He came to Earth from His Kingdom, Returned to His Kingdom, Shall Return to Earth, and Claim Earth to be included In His Kingdom.

His kingdom not being of this world does not mean it only exists in heaven. It means it's not a worldly kingdom. It's not an evil kingdom like the kingdoms of this evil world are. This world is evil and Jesus said to not love the world or the things that are in the world (1 John 2:15) because of that. Jesus said He was in the world but not of the world and that His followers were in the world, but not of the world while He was on the earth and not while He was in heaven. He was in the world and His followers were in the world, but not of this evil world. Likewise, His spiritual kingdom that we're in now is in the world, but not of the world.

Do you deny that we are in His kingdom now, as scripture teaches? Have you not been delivered from the power of darkness and translated into His kingdom? Is He not your King right now?

Colossians 1:12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: 13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

When Jesus Returns to Earth, is A Specific Time…Event.
It is 1,000 years passage of time, With Jesus ON Earth, before Humans become extinct.

How can that be when the earth will be burned up when He returns?

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

Not “When” Jesus returns, rather 1,000 years After Jesus Returns.

That's not what Jesus Himself said in Matthew 24:35-39 or what Peter wrote in 2 Peter 3:10-12.

Dead humans have BEEN “resurrected” for centuries.
Example:
* A dead boy, “resurrected”, resumed Living.
1 Kings 17
* A dead and buried man for 4 days named Lazarus, “resurrected”, resumed living.
John 11: 43,44
* Accounts, of men having no fame, dying, drowning, no pulse, no breath, pronounced dead, being resurrected, resume living.
* Prophecy, Rapture, Resurrection, Redemption, of those IN Christ.
* Prophecy, First Resurrection.
* Prophecy, Last Resurrection

LOL. I'm talking about the dead being resurrected and then judged as Daniel 12:2 and John 5:28-29 talk about. All who are resurrected in the future will be resurrected at the same time and then judged, according to scripture.

Men are Regularly. Routinely JUDGED… Judged, a believer…
Judged, Faithful…
Judged, having fallen from Faith…
Judged Worthy to Be Saved, Made Whole…
Judged, Righteous…
Judged, UnRighteous…
Judged, worthy to Suffer Spiritual Wrath…
Judged, Worthy to Escape Spiritual Wrath…
Judged, on Works that Glorify God.
Judged, on Works, that do Not Glorify God.

IT IS the “Judge-MENTS”…that “Routinely” …
Put the “Judging into Effect.”

You are avoiding the point and trying to make things as complicated as possible for no reason. I'm talking about the time when Jesus comes to judge all people. When all people stand before Him to give an account of themselves after which they either inherit eternal life in the kingdom of God or are cast into everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels as Jesus talked about in Matthew 25:31-46.

The last days “JUDGEMENTS”…
7 Seals
7 Trumps
7 Bowls
Are Judgements poured out upon the Earth and its “inhabitants” “Judged”… worthy to Receive (one or all of those “Negative” Judgements).

LOL. I'm talking about people having to stand before the judgment seat/throne of Christ and give an account of themselves.

The Sentencing…is the Final Declaration, for an Individual to eternally Be WITH or WITHOUT the Lord God.

That's what I'm talking about. How can you not know that since I'm clearly talking about things that happen in relation to Christ's return? When He returns, all people will have to stand before Him to give an account of themselves after which His sentencing will occur. That is what Jesus talked about in Matthew 25:31-46. That sentencing will occur when He returns and not 1,000+ years later.