Vaccination Countdown to 70/80%

[Addy]

Parent lives matter...

Are you starting a NEW movement???

 

[An Apologetic Sheepdog]

In order for me to consider the above point I must cast doubt on peoples credibility, which is what you tried to do to me in your last post. Calling people liars and fabricating data for money. This is highly speculative and non sound reasoning. Doubting mainstream science has always cast doubt on ones credibility. Which is where your currently at my friend.

That's the PURPOSE AND REASON for doing it and one of the 2 first MAJOR steps in any peer review. You establish the CREDENTIALS first then the MOTIVATIONS second. A "study" by the unqualified is bogus from the outset and a "study" that is biased is NOT LEGITIMATE.

It was a CDC study so I can just assume it has credibility and has had a proper scientific review process. If it hadn't it would be the subject of much debate and questioning in the scientific community.

That's an appeal to authority fallacy. ( and an assumption) No sane person would ever make such an "assumption" with any government agency or entity.

Again speculative and boarders on the paranoid or doubting of individuals credibility as you did me.

No, its a legitimate ( and expected) vetting technique in use everywhere on Earth

Not sure what your getting at. I'm not sure this is a valid point as it was a CDC study. Perhaps you should look at the quality of data statement on the CDC website: CDC - Info Quality Support - Guidelines - FAQs - Science Support - Science Quality - OSQ - OS

Meaningless. EVERYBODY has a quality and ethics statement.( boilerplate) That's not the same as submitting it for independent review.

**note: to be honest I'm not really going to debate this topic as it would take too much of my time. And it's really not worth debating. I would put more effort into it if I thought for one second it could change your mind. But you appear to be casting doubt on everyones credibility.

And people wonder how and why we are where we are and reinforces why Scripture even says to "TEST THE SPIRITS TO SEE IF THEY ARE TRUE"

Nowhere is anyone required or expected to take things at face value on "blind faith".

 

[Josho]

Are you starting a NEW movement???

Yep, earlier today..

"Lets be honest a lot of young adults in their 20s and 30s still need their parents for some support, whether if it's for moral support or financial support or even just to ease burdens on the daily grind, essential daily routines, like look after kids, pets, etc...."

 

[An Apologetic Sheepdog]

People like me and Devin want to protect people's parents, as I said earlier a lot of young adults would be stuffed without their parents. So we should not just let the Covid rip.

If that's true then you should DEMAND full transparency, access to ALL baseline data used in the decision making review and a QUALIFIED VETTING PROCESS ( if for no other reason that simple error proofing)

Anything short of that is not exercising due diligence in "protecting" anything

 

[dev553344]

That's the PURPOSE AND REASON for doing it and one of the 2 first MAJOR steps in any peer review. You establish the CREDENTIALS first then the MOTIVATIONS second. A "study" by the unqualified is bogus from the outset and a "study" that is biased is NOT LEGITIMATE.




That's an appeal to authority fallacy. ( and an assumption) No sane person would ever make such an "assumption" with any government agency or entity.



No, its a legitimate ( and expected) vetting technique in use everywhere on Earth



Meaningless. EVERYBODY has a quality and ethics statement.( boilerplate) That's not the same as submitting it for independent review.



And people wonder how and why we are where we are and reinforces why Scripture even says to "TEST THE SPIRITS TO SEE IF THEY ARE TRUE"

Nowhere is anyone required or expected to take things at face value on "blind faith".

I'll tell you a secret: I have bipolar schizophrenia and have a long history with paranoid delusions. I know how to spot them now and stick to factual information to avoid my own paranoia.

I think we have to be careful here to follow the actual truth. Witness statements are considered truth until found to be perjuring in a court of law. I must believe people until I find that they are lying. And that is the truth of the witness of Jesus the Christ also. He proved thru miracles his testament. Let's remember Psalm:

Psalm 101:7 He that worketh deceit shall not dwell within my house: he that telleth lies shall not tarry in my sight.

 

[Addy]

Yep, earlier today..

"Lets be honest a lot of young adults in their 20s and 30s still need their parents for some support, whether if it's for moral support or financial support or even just to ease burdens on the daily grind, essential daily routines, like look after kids, pets, etc...."

Well here's another issue I stand out on then... I have prepared my daughter to let me go... when it is my time... and she is most aware of the fact that I will be the HAPPIEST of campers when that time actually arrives.

I understand the reasoning for your opinion... but... I do not join you in TRUSTING the information that is being given to us.

 

[An Apologetic Sheepdog]

I'll tell you a secret: I have bipolar schizophrenia and have a long history with paranoid delusions. I know how to spot them now and stick to factual information to avoid my own paranoia.

That's like saying a persons lack of knowledge is the basis for being able to confirm knowledge of a subject. (it implodes upon itself)

I think we have to be careful here to follow the actual truth.

Honestly Devin, following the truth is usually easy- getting TO THE TRUTH is often a different matter.

Witness statements are considered truth until found to be perjuring in a court of law.

That's not true at all. Witness statements are known from the outset to be highly unreliable and ALWAYS have a rigorous vetting with cross examination and even then are discarded in the case of scientific evidence.

I must believe people until I find that they are lying.

I will concede that's "polite" but totally ILL ADVISED in every situation.

And that is the truth of the witness of Jesus the Christ also. He proved thru miracles his testament. Let's remember Psalm:
Psalm 101:7 He that worketh deceit shall not dwell within my house: he that telleth lies shall not tarry in my sight.

You just backed up and proved all my points for me. Even Jesus had to "show" His data and "prove" His words. He didn't ask anyone to accept it on the strength of his word.

 

[Addy]

I have to say... I'm inclined to side with our resident sheepdog on this issue. But then ... I'm just a little lamb... LOL

 

[An Apologetic Sheepdog]

I have to say... I'm inclined to side with our resident sheepdog on this issue. But then ... I'm just a little lamb... LOL

The thing is, I didn't create the scientific method, rules of evidence and the review processes- they were old when I was young.

They are all there for a reason and part of that reason is the best most honest, unbiased and accurate result possible.

To not demand such rigor is to invite any number of disasters. To accept anything blindly without such measures is foolish.

 

[dev553344]

I will concede that's "polite" but totally ILL ADVISED in every situation.

That idea of doubting people before believing them first. It shows a lack of trust in people. As if they've been hurt a lot.

I for one am happy for the CDC and the WHO. Do you know that the WHO saved lives as they gave their own to contain the EBOLA outbreak. They were attacked with machetes by angry natives. Who probably didn't like being contained. :Ebola outbreak: Guinea health team killed

 

[An Apologetic Sheepdog]

That idea of doubting people before believing them first. It shows a lack of trust in people. As if they've been hurt a lot.

Ever heard of a scripture that says "place not your faith in man"? Devin, people lie, sell out and promote evil agendas every day in every subject.
You cannot simply "accept" things on the surface as truth for fear of hurting someone's feelings. That's not only unwise but dangerous.

I for one am happy for the CDC and the WHO. Do you know that the WHO saved lives as they gave their own to contain the EBOLA outbreak. They were attacked with machetes by angry natives. Who probably didn't like being contained. :Ebola outbreak: Guinea health team killed

A puff piece. I have worked alongside the UN in various capacities off and on for over 30 years. They are anything but "good guys".

Even still, that doesn't apply at all or change anything I have said.

 

[Josho]

That idea of doubting people before believing them first. It shows a lack of trust in people. As if they've been hurt a lot.

I for one am happy for the CDC and the WHO. Do you know that the WHO saved lives as they gave their own to contain the EBOLA outbreak. They were attacked with machetes by angry natives. Who probably didn't like being contained. :Ebola outbreak: Guinea health team killed

Exactly, these guys are highly educated trained professionals. They have far more idea what to do in epidemics and pandemics than we do, they have a huge wealth of knowledge when it comes to these things, CDC has been around for 75 years, 75 years of medical experts. The source where I got an article I just recently posted the RACGP has been around since 1958, they have high medical standards, I think they know their job.

If we want a car fixed we don't go to a jeweller, we go to a mechanic......

 

[dev553344]

Ever heard of a scripture that says "place not your faith in man"?

Well man can't resurrect us and give us eternal life, but medicine can often cure us of various ills or slow their destructive influence on our bodies. Like the vaccine is currently proven to provide. The Pfizer vaccine I took is now fully approved in the USA. It's now mainstream science. With factual evidence to back it up.

 

[An Apologetic Sheepdog]

Exactly, these guys are highly educated trained professionals.

Then why are there equally "highly educated trained professionals" both speaking out against them and being intimidated into silence?

They have far more idea what to do in epidemics and pandemics than we do, they have a huge wealth of knowledge when it comes to these things, CDC has been around for 75 years, 75 years of medical experts.

That's an appeal to authority fallacy. In science EVERY point has to stand on its own merits and is zero based.

If we want a car fixed we don't go to a jeweller, we go to a mechanic......

How is that relevant?

Wouldn't it be more applicable to say if we want a car fixed, we go to a qualified reputable mechanic then when we request an estimate and itemized bill we get one?

 

[An Apologetic Sheepdog]

Well man can't resurrect us and give us eternal life, but medicine can often cure us of various ills or slow their destructive influence on our bodies.

apples to alternators comparison

Like the vaccine is currently proven to provide. The Pfizer vaccine I took is now fully approved in the USA. It's now mainstream science. With factual evidence to back it up.

Have you actually seen, read and verified this "evidence"?

 

[CadyandZoe]

From the USA stats it would appear most infections are in the unvaccinated. They have scientific studies: https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/24/cdc...ore-likely-to-be-hospitalized-with-covid.html

Key Points

• Unvaccinated people are about 29 times more likely to be hospitalized with Covid-19 than those who are fully vaccinated, according to a CDC study released Tuesday.
• The new study also found that unvaccinated people were nearly five times more likely to be infected with Covid than vaccinated people.
• The data is in line with comments from federal and state health officials, who have been saying for weeks that millions of unvaccinated Americans have been putting themselves at serious risk.

We know this isn't true. Explain Israel. They are fully vaccinated and yet they seem to have the highest cases of all.

 

[Addy]

The thing is, I didn't create the scientific method, rules of evidence and the review processes- they were old when I was young.

They are all there for a reason and part of that reason is the best most honest, unbiased and accurate result possible.

To not demand such rigor is to invite any number of disasters. To accept anything blindly without such measures is foolish.

Well.... I am just the UNTRUSTING type person so I don't listen to what anyone has to say... I don't expect the government or anyone else
who has power to be honest....or straight-forward with any kind of information.. Everyone has an agenda... and people will do anything to protect their positions. Anyways... just my little two cents worth.

 

[dev553344]

Have you actually seen, read and verified this "evidence"?

The CDC has an article I will direct you that tells us that the vaccines are in fact effective. And I'm glad I got the shot: Benefits of Getting a COVID-19 Vaccine

From the article:

COVID-19 vaccines are safe

• COVID-19 vaccines were developed using science that has been around for decades.
• COVID-19 vaccines are not experimental. They went through all the required stages of clinical trials. Extensive testing and monitoring have shown that these vaccines are safe and effective.
• COVID-19 vaccines have received and continue to undergo the most intensive safety monitoring in U.S. history. Learn more about how federal partners are ensuring COVID-19 vaccines work.

COVID-19 vaccines are effective

• COVID 19-vaccines are effective. They can keep you from getting and spreading the virus that causes COVID-19. Learn more about the different COVID-19 vaccines.
• COVID-19 vaccines also help keep you from getting seriously ill even if you do get COVID-19.
• Getting vaccinated yourself may also protect people around you, particularly people at increased risk for severe illness from COVID-19.

 

[dev553344]

We know this isn't true. Explain Israel. They are fully vaccinated and yet they seem to have the highest cases of all.

What vaccine did they use? Pfizer I see. The vaccine appears to be effective to "blunt" the delta variant but does not prevent it's spread. I would consider that effective since it was designed for "not" the delta variant. But they are administering booster shots currently for this situation: AAAS

"A grim warning from Israel: Vaccination blunts, but does not defeat Delta"

 

[dev553344]

We know this isn't true. Explain Israel. They are fully vaccinated and yet they seem to have the highest cases of all.

Second response. I did notice that Israel took their masks off during the spread of the delta variant. Something I don't like but seems to help prevent it's spread. See:Coronavirus: Israel reimposes masks amid new virus fears

"Coronavirus: Israel reimposes masks amid new virus fears"