Vaccination Countdown to 70/80%

[Josho]

@devin553344

Look at post #174, an article on Iceland's situation a month ago. Iceland's case numbers reached their highest in their 3rd wave, but only recorded 3 deaths from there 3rd wave to this date, thanks to a highly vaccinated population.

Vaccination Countdown to 70/80%

 

[An Apologetic Sheepdog]

The CDC has an article I will direct you that tells us that the vaccines are in fact effective. And I'm glad I got the shot: Benefits of Getting a COVID-19 Vaccine

I'm glad you're glad but that doesn't add a shred of legitimacy to anything.

That's a propaganda piece. (I would ask if you actually understand anything about anything they are saying or the processes involved but I already know)

Notice they "tell" you all about it (a sales technique) but misrepresent the actual baseline data.

Here's just one reason why- from the actual article you posted
During January 1, 2021–March 26, 2021, adults with COVID-19–like illness¶ admitted to 24 hospitals in 14 states (notice the covid LIKE illness). What that means is they used a questionable sample because not all patients were VERIFIED to actually have the disease ( which skews the results)

Here's the FINE PRINT ( also from the article)
¶ IVY Network criteria for COVID-19–like illness included presence of fever, feverishness, cough, sore throat, myalgias, shortness of breath, chest pain, loss of taste, loss of smell, respiratory congestion, increased sputum production, new oxygen saturation <94% on room air, new requirement for invasive or noninvasive mechanical ventilation, or new pulmonary findings on chest imaging consistent with pneumonia. HAIVEN criteria included fever without a known non–COVID-19 cause, new or worsening cough, a change in sputum production, or new or worsening shortness of breath.

What that means in English (and science)- they took "guessed" cases to built a large dataset ( not a legitimate double blind test required to make sure the patient set actually had the target disease). That skews it right there in terms of response to treatment for a specific disease..

This is exactly WHY we have the scientific method. What they TELL you and the FACTS don't match.

That actually took me longer to type than to actually find the data in this one.

 

[dev553344]

@devin553344

Look at post #174, an article on Iceland's situation a month ago. Iceland's case numbers reached their highest in their 3rd wave, but only recorded 3 deaths from there 3rd wave to this date, thanks to a highly vaccinated population.

Vaccination Countdown to 70/80%

Thanks, that's re-assuring info.

 

[Josho]

Thanks, that's re-assuring info.

You're welcome

 

[CadyandZoe]

Well I have not given a proper reply to this one, but here it is now, information from a reliable source that paints the whole picture.

Let me address this one statement at a time. But first, bear in mind that the PCR test has been proven unreliable.

"Conspiracy theorists have used the data to support their criticisms of the vaccines’ efficacy – pointing to the level of vaccinated people who have tested positive to the virus.

Of course vaccinated people will test positive for the virus. Remember, the mRNA vaccine is not a typical vaccine. Rather, the mRNA vaccine is a gene modification agent that tricks your own body in producing the spike protein related to Sars-Cov-2 (Covid-19). The Covid-19 antibody test is looking for antibodies that your body has produced in response to either the covid-19 virus or the mRNA agent. The antibody test will test positive whether a person got the virus naturally or artificially.

However, conspicuously absent from many of those theories – which are the subject of a debunking article by Reuters Fact Check – are references to the severity of symptoms caused by the current wave of cases.

According to the country’s Director General of the Ministry of Health Ásthildur Knútsdóttir, around 97% percent of those current infections include mild or no symptoms at all.

Is evidence of infection the same thing as evidence of disease? I don't think so. Without symptoms there is no disease. After all, what does it mean to have a "disease".

Define Disease:
a disorder of structure or function in a human, animal, or plant, especially one that produces specific signs or symptoms or that affects a specific location and is not simply a direct result of physical injury. "bacterial meningitis is a rare disease"

Without symptoms, one does not have a disease. Those who are infected by a virus may never have symptoms because the body itself is successfully fighting the virus. A positive test does not indicate current disease. One may have recently come in contact with the virus or one may have already been sick and recovered from the virus to produce a positive test.


As previously covered by newsGP, the level of ‘breakthrough infections’ among those vaccinated is expected to rise as vaccination coverage increases. Around 77% of Iceland’s local cases are now among vaccinated individuals, Ms Knútsdóttir told Reuters.

But despite the rise in cases, there are currently only 18 hospitalised COVID cases nationwide. Demands may have increased on the country’s healthcare staff since the country opened up but the figures do not suggest the system is being overwhelmed.

At this point, I think it is important to point out the obvious. This article is one example among many demonstrating the unethical process taking place worldwide. Rather than quoting scientific articles to prove the case, the article cites current data being collected from the general public. (Which is not pear reviewed BTW)

In truth, the reason why the FDA did NOT give full approval to these vaccines is due to the fact that the efficacy and potential harm of these vaccines have NOT been proven scientifically. In essence, as this article demonstrates, the efficacy and harm of these vaccines is being tested right now on the general public. The general public, in this case the population of Iceland, are the test subjects. In about 10 years, Iceland will know about the long-term effect of these experimental agents.

Not much is said about this unethical practice.

 

[CadyandZoe]

The CDC has an article I will direct you that tells us that the vaccines are in fact effective. And I'm glad I got the shot: Benefits of Getting a COVID-19 Vaccine

From the article:

COVID-19 vaccines are safe

• COVID-19 vaccines were developed using science that has been around for decades.
• COVID-19 vaccines are not experimental. They went through all the required stages of clinical trials. Extensive testing and monitoring have shown that these vaccines are safe and effective.
• COVID-19 vaccines have received and continue to undergo the most intensive safety monitoring in U.S. history. Learn more about how federal partners are ensuring COVID-19 vaccines work.

COVID-19 vaccines are effective

• COVID 19-vaccines are effective. They can keep you from getting and spreading the virus that causes COVID-19. Learn more about the different COVID-19 vaccines.
• COVID-19 vaccines also help keep you from getting seriously ill even if you do get COVID-19.
• Getting vaccinated yourself may also protect people around you, particularly people at increased risk for severe illness from COVID-19.

We know this isn't true because if it were, these vaccines would have full FDA approval, which they don't have. The vaccines were created in haste and approved only for emergency use. The vaccine inserts are left blank for this reason. The vaccine companies are NOT going to make medical claims they can't prove scientifically. Otherwise they subject themselves to liability claims. They can not scientifically claim that they are safe and effective. And they won't because they can be sued.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Second response. I did notice that Israel took their masks off during the spread of the delta variant. Something I don't like but seems to help prevent it's spread. See:Coronavirus: Israel reimposes masks amid new virus fears

"Coronavirus: Israel reimposes masks amid new virus fears"

The idea that masks help the spread of the virus is based on old information. Remember, when this virus first broke, we knew very little about it. The understanding, at the time, was that asymptomatic carriers of the virus were infectious. And for this reason, it made sense to wear a mask to protect your family and friends from harm. But now we know that asymptomatic people are NOT infectious and so wearing a mask is not needed or required. But wearing masks can be harmful.

 

[An Apologetic Sheepdog]

This is for also @An Apologetic Sheepdog

If you look past the headlines an article from Australia's RACGP (Royal Australian College of General Practitioners) has pointed out the facts when Iceland was around at its peak.

First ALL articles are considered hearsay and propaganda for the simple fact that there are no controls whatsoever on the media so articles quoting articles and fact checking based on articles is nothing more that everything times ZERO is still zero. Gossip repeated doesn't "prove" gossip.

I did look past the headlines and even into the actual Doherty Modeling report. Here are the REAL "facts".

Start at page 23 in the tables of assumptions- specifically the following:
it is important to note that infections in these settings are skewed towards unvaccinated population groups in whom other risk determinants may also differ, potentially confounding and inflating early estimates of severity.


On this basis we will assume that the severity of Delta strains approximates Alpha strains. Again, given the limited evidence of clinical outcomes for Alpha relative to the much more extensive literature on original ‘wild-type’ strains we draw our starting assumptions regarding disease progression from wild-type. We then apply age-based risk multipliers as indicated based on observations of the Alpha variant.

The rest reads the same. They take OBSERVATIONAL DATA ( a "what looks like" assessment) that they ADMIT is skewed and at best suggestive that has UNKNOWN VARIABLES and them make ASSUMPTIONS based on GUESSES.

This comes from YOUR article.

If I were the SME called in court to refute these claims, I would OWN them. This is why there is no "peer review" on these things because this is just "me" on a forum- imagine if this were fee based and I was paid to dissect this. ( and this is just me as a facilitator and reviewer over the process, let me bring in a board certified SME to cut through the actual content and claims)

And this is what people are calling SCIENCE? This is why we DO NOT trust them because they are trying to PRETEND to use legitimate science to cover up GUESSES ( which may or may not have other motivating factors)

 

[lforrest]

Once they coerce enough people into getting their mRNA shot it may be feasible to throw the rest into concentration camps.

 

[Addy]

Once they coerce enough people into getting their mRNA shot it may be feasible to throw the rest into concentration camps.

Well lookie who showed up... HELLO there... Was thinking about you just yesterday... wondering where you had gone.

 

[Truman]

@ the resident SHEEPDOG... I sure do apprecia

Well lookie who showed up... HELLO there... Was thinking about you just yesterday... wondering where you had gone.

Looking on the bright side, that may help my A.D.D.

 

[Addy]

Looking on the bright side, that may help my A.D.D.

I don't know how part of my sheepdog post got attached to it but... I removed it.

 

[lforrest]

Well lookie who showed up... HELLO there... Was thinking about you just yesterday... wondering where you had gone.

I've been around. Usually don't have much to say.

 

[Cristo Rei]

As previously covered by newsGP, the level of ‘breakthrough infections’ among those vaccinated is expected to rise as vaccination coverage increases. Around 77% of Iceland’s local cases are now among vaccinated individuals, Ms Knútsdóttir told Reuters.

Thanks for refuting yourself....
Again

The experiment isn't working as they had expected... Hence the booster shots and lockdowns

 

[dev553344]

We know this isn't true because if it were, these vaccines would have full FDA approval, which they don't have. The vaccines were created in haste and approved only for emergency use. The vaccine inserts are left blank for this reason. The vaccine companies are NOT going to make medical claims they can't prove scientifically. Otherwise they subject themselves to liability claims. They can not scientifically claim that they are safe and effective. And they won't because they can be sued.

Pfizer has recieved full FDA approval: FDA Approves First COVID-19 Vaccine

 

[Josho]

Thanks for refuting yourself....
Again

The experiment isn't working as they had expected... Hence the booster shots and lockdowns

See post #175 Vaccination Countdown to 70/80%

Vaccines do work.

 

[Cristo Rei]

See post #175 Vaccination Countdown to 70/80%

Vaccines do work.

Post 174 onwards is just a desperate attempt to cover up for your man Dan...
Your angle is political. Mine is moral.
Forcing experimental needles on people is a moral issue
The syringe does not create immunity like they claimed
The syringe did not end the pandemic and alarmism like they claimed

Refutation complete

 

[Josho]

Refutation complete

Lolz post 174 is from a well trusted source. We have very high healthcare standards in Australia, we have very highly qualified top class medical professionals here in Australia, we have top class medical education here in Australia.

And post 175 is truth, you cannot prove it as false.

 

[Cristo Rei]

Lolz post 174 is from a well trusted source. We have very high healthcare standards in Australia, we have very highly qualified top class medical professionals here in Australia, we have top class medical education here in Australia.

And post 175 is truth, you cannot prove it as false.

Trusted source according to who... The msm media have done nothing but lie from the start... It's just someone's opinion... And even they say heaps of vaxed people are getting covid
Only source I'm using is data...

* All the data shows experimantal needles have made covid worse in the world
* They don't provide immunity
* They didn't make covid disappear like they said it would
*They didn't stop mask, lockdows and alarmism like they said it would

Look... U stand by Dan... That's all...
There is no use debating someone whose angle is political... They will excuse everything from vaccine murder to lockdown suicide to our incarceration...

That's why I don't want to debate you.

So just leave it... You stand by Dan and that's all that matters to you

 

[Josho]

Trusted source according to who... The msm media have done nothing but lie from the start... It's just someone's opinion... And even they say heaps of vaxed people are getting covid
Only source I'm using is data...

* All the data shows experimantal needles have made covid worse in the world
* They don't provide immunity
* They didn't make covid disappear like they said it would
*They didn't stop mask, lockdows and alarmism like they said it would

Look... U stand by Dan... That's all...
There is no use debating someone whose angle is political... They will excuse everything from vaccine murder to lockdown suicide to our incarceration...

That's why I don't want to debate you.

So just leave it... You stand by Dan and that's all that matters to you

So you think I would vote 1 for Dan?
Really? Pauly? Really?