Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
sola scriptura....ok....the phrase Virgin Mary does not appear in the scriptures.
The clinical definition of virgin was never strictly implied.
The closest Hebrew word for clinical virginity was convoluted too, because the Old Testament used it to described a woman that was raped.
The Greek definition for virgin is young woman....young maiden....implication....young woman that has not delivered a child. Very old debate.
The Church's desire to portray Miriam as a virgin after conception, after delivery, and all her life was the growing belief that sex was evil. You can check history on this and eventually leads to the doctrine of Original Sin. Because of all this they could not accept the idea of
1. Miriam being conceived by sex....so voilà! Immaculate conception was conceived
2. Miriam conceiving by God's seed.
3. Baby Yeshua passing through the evil genitals.
4. Miriam doing anything as evil as having sex.
The concept of perpetual virginity did not come until centuries later, and it was slowly accepted and intensified so that anything to do with sex and pleasure become kin to satanic. This can be verified with the writings of St. Jerome, St. Augustine, Thomas Aquinas, and several other ECF's. Eventually even sex between a husband and a wife was considered sinful if it was done for any other reason but to have children. It gets to the point that even famine beauty is seen as sinister. In a male dominant religion where sex is seen as dirty, nasty, and sinful....women are the tempter of good men and are in league with the devil.....ergo the Witch Hunts.
The concept that celibacy has anything to do with being right with God or even good has dogged the Catholic Church for centuries, and is at the root of their problems today.
Even though St. Jerome obviously preferred the company of women, (Because the company he kept and most of his followers were women.) He still had this to say about the status of women: “….it is contrary to the order of nature, or of law, that women should speak in the assembly of men……and man should be commanded to love his wife, whereas the wife should fear her husband.” and he also said “Nothing is so unclean as a woman in her periods; what she touches she causes to become unclean.” Written by St. Jerome
“Because Eve caused the fall of Man she and all women were cursed to painfully deliver children between urine and feces.” Written by St. Jerome
“He who ardently loves his own wife in an adulterer.” Written by St. Jerome
On the topic of sexual desire...“Who can control this when its appetite is aroused? No one! In the very movement of this appetite, then, it has no ‘mode’ that responds to the decisions of the will. But when those who delight in this pleasure are not moved to it at their own will, whether they confine themselves to lawful or transgress to a unlawful pleasures; but sometimes this lust importunes them in spite of themselves, and sometimes fails them when they desire to feel it, so that though lust rages in the mind, it stirs not in the body Written by St. Augustine
“This diabolical excitement of the genitals…” (As St. Augustine refers to the act of sex.) …is evidence of Adam’s original sin which is now transmitted “from the mother’s womb,” tainting all human beings with sin, and leaving them incapable of choosing good over evil, or determining their own destiny.” Written by St. Augustine
“We must conclude, that a husband is meant to rule over his wife as the spirit rules over the flesh. and “the flesh lusts against the spirit and the spirit against the flesh.” Written by St. Augustine
”..marriage is a crime against God, because it changed the state of virginity that God gave every man and woman at birth....Marriage was prostitution of the members of Christ, and married people ought to blush at the state in which they live.” Written by St. Ambrose
In the year 553 A.D. At a Council of bishops in Macon, religious leaders debate and voted on whether or not females had souls. By a narrow margin the Bishops decide that females have souls. Like it was their choice.
Penitential regulation laid down in the 7th century by Theodore, Bishop of Canterbury, forbade menstruating women to take communion or even enter the church. At the French Synod of Meraux, menstruating women were specifically forbidden to come to church
We move forward to the year 940 A.D. A well-respected religious leader named Odo, who was the leader of the Monks of Cluny, wrote, “To embrace a woman is to embrace a sack of manure.” And considered “….the beauty of a woman the greatest of snares.”
The clinical definition of virgin was never strictly implied.
The closest Hebrew word for clinical virginity was convoluted too, because the Old Testament used it to described a woman that was raped.
The Greek definition for virgin is young woman....young maiden....implication....young woman that has not delivered a child. Very old debate.
The Church's desire to portray Miriam as a virgin after conception, after delivery, and all her life was the growing belief that sex was evil. You can check history on this and eventually leads to the doctrine of Original Sin. Because of all this they could not accept the idea of
1. Miriam being conceived by sex....so voilà! Immaculate conception was conceived
2. Miriam conceiving by God's seed.
3. Baby Yeshua passing through the evil genitals.
4. Miriam doing anything as evil as having sex.
The concept of perpetual virginity did not come until centuries later, and it was slowly accepted and intensified so that anything to do with sex and pleasure become kin to satanic. This can be verified with the writings of St. Jerome, St. Augustine, Thomas Aquinas, and several other ECF's. Eventually even sex between a husband and a wife was considered sinful if it was done for any other reason but to have children. It gets to the point that even famine beauty is seen as sinister. In a male dominant religion where sex is seen as dirty, nasty, and sinful....women are the tempter of good men and are in league with the devil.....ergo the Witch Hunts.
The concept that celibacy has anything to do with being right with God or even good has dogged the Catholic Church for centuries, and is at the root of their problems today.
Even though St. Jerome obviously preferred the company of women, (Because the company he kept and most of his followers were women.) He still had this to say about the status of women: “….it is contrary to the order of nature, or of law, that women should speak in the assembly of men……and man should be commanded to love his wife, whereas the wife should fear her husband.” and he also said “Nothing is so unclean as a woman in her periods; what she touches she causes to become unclean.” Written by St. Jerome
“Because Eve caused the fall of Man she and all women were cursed to painfully deliver children between urine and feces.” Written by St. Jerome
“He who ardently loves his own wife in an adulterer.” Written by St. Jerome
On the topic of sexual desire...“Who can control this when its appetite is aroused? No one! In the very movement of this appetite, then, it has no ‘mode’ that responds to the decisions of the will. But when those who delight in this pleasure are not moved to it at their own will, whether they confine themselves to lawful or transgress to a unlawful pleasures; but sometimes this lust importunes them in spite of themselves, and sometimes fails them when they desire to feel it, so that though lust rages in the mind, it stirs not in the body Written by St. Augustine
“This diabolical excitement of the genitals…” (As St. Augustine refers to the act of sex.) …is evidence of Adam’s original sin which is now transmitted “from the mother’s womb,” tainting all human beings with sin, and leaving them incapable of choosing good over evil, or determining their own destiny.” Written by St. Augustine
“We must conclude, that a husband is meant to rule over his wife as the spirit rules over the flesh. and “the flesh lusts against the spirit and the spirit against the flesh.” Written by St. Augustine
”..marriage is a crime against God, because it changed the state of virginity that God gave every man and woman at birth....Marriage was prostitution of the members of Christ, and married people ought to blush at the state in which they live.” Written by St. Ambrose
In the year 553 A.D. At a Council of bishops in Macon, religious leaders debate and voted on whether or not females had souls. By a narrow margin the Bishops decide that females have souls. Like it was their choice.
Penitential regulation laid down in the 7th century by Theodore, Bishop of Canterbury, forbade menstruating women to take communion or even enter the church. At the French Synod of Meraux, menstruating women were specifically forbidden to come to church
We move forward to the year 940 A.D. A well-respected religious leader named Odo, who was the leader of the Monks of Cluny, wrote, “To embrace a woman is to embrace a sack of manure.” And considered “….the beauty of a woman the greatest of snares.”
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