Virgin Mary---the New Ark of the Covenant?

[Angelina]

Marymog re: the manna. The bible tells us that this bread was given to teach them - "that man does not live on bread alone but on every word that comes from the mouth of the Lord". Deuteronomy 8:2-4. The urn [my bible says jar] that held the manna was within the covenant box. Manna is a symbol of Christ yes but this does not necessarily mean that the jar that held the manna represented Mary. Where does it say that in scripture? :huh:

and no...it's never been a Christian doctrine that I have ever come across....[outside Catholic beliefs]

 

[BreadOfLife]

Marymog re: the manna. The bible tells us that this bread was given to teach them - "that man does not live on bread alone but on every word that comes from the mouth of the Lord". Deuteronomy 8:2-4. The urn [my bible says jar] that held the manna was within the covenant box. Manna is a symbol of Christ yes but this does not necessarily mean that the jar that held the manna represented Mary. Where does it say that in scripture? :huh:

and no...it's never been a Christian doctrine that I have ever come across....[outside Catholic beliefs]

NT fulfillments of OT types are usually never specific.

If you want actual terms or names - why don't you show me where the word "Trinity" is in the Bible.
While you're at it - show me where I can find the word, "Incarnation".
Do you have an inspired list of Books that comprise the NT - or was this declared by the Church, under the guidance of the Holy Spirit that Jesus promised would lead His Church to ALL Truth?

There are fulfillments in Scripture that are as plain as day - unless you have an agenda that is against the Catholic Church.
For example, God's words about Eliakim are almost verbatim the same words Jesus uses when addressing Peter:

Isaiah 22:20–22
In that day I will call my servant Eliakim the son of Hilkiah, and I will clothe him with your robe, and will bind your girdle on him, and will commit your authority to his hand; and he shall be a father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem and to the house of Judah. And I will place on his shoulder the key of the house of David; he shall open, and none shall shut; and he shall shut, and none shall open.




Matt. 16:18-19
And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it. I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."

Eliakim is the type - Peter is clearly the fulfillment - UNLESS you have another agenda.
The same is true for Mary and the Ark. The six Scriptural examples I gave in post #12 are unmistakable examples of OT Type and NT Fulfilment.

If they are not - then I would certainly like to see somebody here explain them away . . .

 

[Angelina]

There are fulfillments in Scripture that are as plain as day - unless you have an agenda that is against the Catholic Church.

Oh give me a break ~ unless you really want me to shut this topic down as well. :huh: That kind of manipulation does not hold with me...

[Eliakim is the type - Peter is clearly the fulfillment - UNLESS you have another agenda.
The same is true for Mary and the Ark. The six Scriptural examples I gave in post #12 are unmistakable examples of OT Type and NT Fulfilment.

...and there you go again accusing the Super Moderator of this forum of having an agenda! Just because I do not agree with Catholic doctrine does not mean I have an agenda. It just means that I do not agree. This is a discussion forum where these types of discussions can be had. If you cannot discuss without having a conspiracy theory my suggestion is that you leave this thread alone.

If they are not - then I would certainly like to see somebody here explain them away.

I have never heard of such doctrines therefore it must be either something new or it may be something that only the Catholic brethren believe...

 

[epostle1]

Angelina said

The Old covenant was given by angels to Moses until the seed whom the promise referred had come. [Acts 7:53, Galatians 3:19] This is the law and the covenant. The law and the prophets up until John was pointing toward Christ. [Luke 16:16] The new covenant is in Christ. 2 Corinthians 3:14, Hebrews 9:15.The Ark that Noah made by the instructions of God, saved 8 people which is a shadow of Christ's salvation through his death and resurrection.1 Peter 3:18, 19, 20, 21.he covenant Ark that Moses made, housed the tablets of stone

The covenant you are referring to here is not a physical object.
Yes, the 10 commandments, the Word of God in stone. It was placed in the Ark. Jesus is the divine logos, the Word Made Flesh in the New Ark at the moment He was incarnated.,

Aaron's budding rod

Yes, and Aaron was the high priest, his rod was placed in the Old Ark to foreshadow Jesus, the High Priest, who was in the New Ark

.,and the jar of manna which represented Christ's coming. Hebrews 9:4 The way ~ manna from heaven [Exodus 16: 33-34], The truth ~ The tablets of the covenant law, [Exodus 25:21] The Life ~ Aarons budding rod. [Numbers 17:10]

The manna foreshadows the Bread of Life. that came down from heaven, It too was placed in the Old Ark, just as Jesus was incarnated in the New Ark. John 6:35,41,48,51 - Jesus says four times "I AM the bread from heaven." It is He, Himself, the eternal bread from heaven.
John 6:27,31,49 - there is a parallel between the manna in the desert which was physically consumed, and this "new" bread which must be consumed.

The truth ~ The tablets of the covenant law, [Exodus 25:21] The Life ~ Aarons budding rod. [Numbers 17:10]

Hebrews 9:4 sums it up nicely, doesn't it?

John 14:6 says ~ 2 My Father’s house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you? 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am. 4 You know the way to the place where I am going.”
5 Thomas said to him, “Lord, we don’t know where you are going, so how can we know the way?”
6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

There is not a single Catholic teaching in a 2000 year period that says anyone comes to the Father through Mary. This is one of the most common misunderstandings in all of Protestantism. “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." has always been a Catholic teaching since He spoke those words. Anything short of that is a heresy. I hope I am making myself clear.

It also had an atonement lid with two Cherubim on either side with their wings spread out, overshadowing the cover. Exodus 25:17-21

Scripture does not indicate in any way that Mary, the mother of Jesus had anything to do with God's plan to restore mankind back to himself through his son accept that she was chosen by God to be the bearer of the savior of the world.

Who is the woman in Gen. 3:15, and who is the woman in Rev, 12:17 and why are these the only 2 verses in the entire Bible that have a woman and a serpent/snake/dragon in the same verse? There are only 2 proper names in the Apostle's Creed. Interesting, isn't it?

She is blessed, no doubt but she is not part of the Godhead nor had she died and rose again for the forgiveness of sins. There is only one way to the Father and that is through his Son Jesus Christ the Messiah and savior of our souls.

Ark that Moses made, housed the tablets of stone

Yes, the 10 commandments, the Word of God in stone. It was placed in the Ark. Jesus is the divine logos, the Word Made Flesh in the New Ark.

Aaron's budding rod

Yes, and Aaron was the high priest, his rod was placed in the Old Ark to foreshadow Jesus, the High Priest, who was in the New Ark, unless you want to argue that Jesus turned into God after He was born. There is even a name for that heresy.

and the jar of manna which represented Christ's coming. Hebrews 9:4 The way ~ manna from heaven [Exodus 16: 33-34],

The manna foreshadows the Bread of Life. that came down from heaven, It too was placed in the Old Ark, just as Jesus was incarnated in the New Ark. John 6:35,41,48,51 - Jesus says four times "I AM the bread from heaven." It is He, Himself, the eternal bread from heaven.
John 6:27,31,49 - there is a parallel between the manna in the desert which was physically consumed, and this "new" bread which must be consumed.

The truth ~ The tablets of the covenant law, [Exodus 25:21] The Life ~ Aarons budding rod. [Numbers 17:10]

Hebrews 9:4 sums it up nicely, doesn't it?

John 14:6 says ~ 2 My Father’s house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you? 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am. 4 You know the way to the place where I am going.”
5 Thomas said to him, “Lord, we don’t know where you are going, so how can we know the way?”
6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.



It also had an atonement lid with two Cherubim on either side with their wings spread out, overshadowing the cover. Exodus 25:17-21She is blessed, no doubt but she is not part of the Godhead nor had she died and rose again for the forgiveness of sins. There is only one way to the Father and that is through his Son Jesus Christ the Messiah and savior of our souls.

This has also been taught consistently for 2000 years. If you have been told that Catholics believe otherwise, they are deceiving you.

Who is the woman in Gen. 3:15, and who is the woman in Rev, 12:17 and why are these the only 2 verses in the entire Bible that have a woman and a serpent/snake/dragon in the same verse?

 

[Stranger]

Woman in (Gen. 3:15) is not any particular women. It is 'women' period. Of the women will come the seed,

In (Rev. 12:17) the woman is Israel.

As to why these are only two verses, because there are only two verses. You have some great mystery you want to share?

Stranger

 

[Angelina]

Who is the woman in Gen. 3:15, and who is the woman in Rev, 12:17 and why are these the only 2 verses in the entire Bible that have a woman and a serpent/snake/dragon in the same verse? There are only 2 proper names in the Apostle's Creed. Interesting, isn't it?

Galatians 4
21 Tell me, you who want to be under the law, are you not aware of what the law says? 22 For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the slave woman and the other by the free woman. 23 His son by the slave woman was born according to the flesh, but his son by the free woman was born as the result of a divine promise.
24 These things are being taken figuratively: The women represent two covenants. One covenant is from Mount Sinai and bears children who are to be slaves: This is Hagar. 25 Now Hagar stands for Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present city of Jerusalem, because she is in slavery with her children. 26 But the Jerusalem that is above is free, and she is our mother.

27 For it is written:

“Be glad, barren woman,
you who never bore a child;
shout for joy and cry aloud,
you who were never in labor;
because more are the children of the desolate woman than of her who has a husband.”


28 Now you, brothers and sisters, like Isaac, are children of promise. 29 At that time the son born according to the flesh persecuted the son born by the power of the Spirit. It is the same now. 30 But what does Scripture say? “Get rid of the slave woman and her son, for the slave woman’s son will never share in the inheritance with the free woman’s son.” 31 Therefore, brothers and sisters, we are not children of the slave woman, but of the free woman.

also see ~ Revelation 21:2, 9,10.

I believe the woman represents the covenant with Israel God's chosen people but it also represents the new covenant. The New Jerusalem is where all people who believe in Jesus by faith shall live as citizens of the heavenly Jerusalem coming down out of heaven from God....

 

[epostle1]

Hi Mary, welcome and well said! Please tell me why you connect the new bread as being Mary? :huh: or are you saying that the Urn is Mary?

No. Mary said no such thing. Manna is a FORESHADOW, A TYPE of the Eucharist. It was in the urn that was in the Old Ark.

Added: Mary please also permit me to correct something that I have said in the above post. I am struggling with my computer which is throwing up an "auto adjust correction thingy" and covers the entire text while I am typing.
The Way is Aarons budding rod

I respectfully disagree. Aaron's rod, a sign of his priesthood, is a FORESHADOW of Christ the High Priest, just like the other 2 items are FORESHADOWS. " When Jesus said, "I AM the way the truth and the life..." He was not talking about any ark. Scripture does not develop backwards, so Jesus is not using preshadow, there is no such thing.

Marymog re: the manna. The bible tells us that this bread was given to teach them - "that man does not live on bread alone but on every word that comes from the mouth of the Lord". Deuteronomy 8:2-4.

Not in this instance. Jesus was talking to Satan.

The urn [my bible says jar] that held the manna was within the covenant box. Manna is a symbol of Christ yes but this does not necessarily mean that the jar that held the manna represented Mary. Where does it say that in scripture? :huh:

Angelina, get a coffee, have something to eat. You know better than to make up things that no one said.
1) manna is not just a symbol, it is a FORESHADOW.
2) and no, the jar containing manna does not represent Mary. THE ARK OF THE OLD COVENANT FORESHADOWS THE REDEEMER IN THE WOMB. You need to get this "represent" out of your head.

..it's never been a Christian doctrine that I have ever come across....[outside Catholic beliefs]

Don't sell yourself short.

Typology: the doctrine or study of types or prefigurative symbols, especially in scriptural literature.


Foreshadow: to show or indicate beforehand; prefigure:
type and foreshadow are synonomous. I prefer "type" but it would further confuse those who don't understand foreshadow.

 

[Angelina]

Marymog, I will be looking forward to some of the questions I asked. Not the answers Kepha31 has answered because I know he's on another page [or as we say here in NZ] "Barking up the wrong tree" Bless you!

 

[Angelina]

Galatians 4
21 Tell me, you who want to be under the law, are you not aware of what the law says? 22 For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the slave woman and the other by the free woman. 23 His son by the slave woman was born according to the flesh, but his son by the free woman was born as the result of a divine promise.
24 These things are being taken figuratively: The women represent two covenants. One covenant is from Mount Sinai and bears children who are to be slaves: This is Hagar. 25 Now Hagar stands for Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present city of Jerusalem, because she is in slavery with her children. 26 But the Jerusalem that is above is free, and she is our mother.

27 For it is written:

“Be glad, barren woman,
you who never bore a child;
shout for joy and cry aloud,
you who were never in labor;
because more are the children of the desolate woman than of her who has a husband.”


28 Now you, brothers and sisters, like Isaac, are children of promise. 29 At that time the son born according to the flesh persecuted the son born by the power of the Spirit. It is the same now. 30 But what does Scripture say? “Get rid of the slave woman and her son, for the slave woman’s son will never share in the inheritance with the free woman’s son.” 31 Therefore, brothers and sisters, we are not children of the slave woman, but of the free woman.

also see ~ Revelation 21:2, 9,10.

I believe the woman represents the covenant with Israel God's chosen people but it also represents the new covenant. The New Jerusalem is where all people who believe in Jesus by faith shall live as citizens of the heavenly Jerusalem coming down out of heaven from God....

 

[Angelina]

Kepha31 I don't appreciate the way you are talking to me in the above post.
You are coming across very hostile which is completely unnecessary. I am addressing Marymog because I am trying to understand what she is meaning. I do not understand what you have written or why? :huh:

 

[epostle1]

Woman in (Gen. 3:15) is not any particular women. It is 'women' period. Of the women will come the seed,

Biblehub lists 23 translations and they all say "woman": singular.

In most editions of the Douay-Rheims Bible, Genesis 3:15, in which God is addressing the serpent, reads like this:
"I will put enmities between thee and the woman, and thy seed and her seed: she shall crush thy head, and thou shalt lie in wait for her heel."
In the New American Bible, as in all other modern Bibles, it reads like this:
"I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and hers; He will strike at your head, while you strike at his heel."
The essential difference between these two renderings - concerning who will crush the serpent's head and who the serpent is trying to strike. The Douay-Rheims uses feminine pronouns -- she and her -- implying that the woman is the person being spoken of in this part of the verse. All modern translations use masculine pronouns -- he and his -- implying that the seed of the woman is the of that part of the verse.

The reason for the difference in the renderings is a manuscript difference. Modern translations follow what the original Hebrew of the passage says. The Douay-Rheims, however, is following a manuscript variant found in many early Fathers and some editions of the Vulgate (but not the original; Jerome followed the Hebrew text in his edition of the Vulgate). The variant probably originated as a copyist error when a scribe failed to take note that the subject of the verse had shifted from the woman to the seed of the woman.
People notice this variant today because the expression found in the Douay-Rheims has been the basis of some popular Catholic art, showing a serene Mary standing over a crushed serpent.

This is because Christians have recognized (all the way back to the first century) that the woman and her seed mentioned in Genesis 3:15 do not simply stand for Eve and one of her righteous sons (either Abel or Seth). They prophetically foreshadow Jesus and Mary. Thus, just as the first half of the verse, speaking of the enmity between the serpent and the woman, has been applied to Mary, the second half, speaking of the head crushing and heel striking, has also been applied to Mary due to the manuscript variant, though it properly applies to Jesus, given the original Hebrew.

This does not mean that the idea cannot be validly applied to Mary as well. Through her cooperation in the incarnation of Christ, so that the Son of God (who, from the cross, directly crushed the head of the serpent) became her seed, Mary did crush the head of the serpent. In the same way, the serpent struck at Christ on the cross, and indirectly struck at Mary's heart as well, who had to witness the death of her own Son (cf. John 19:25-27). As the holy priest Simeon had told her years before:

"Behold, this child is set for the fall and rising of many in Israel, and for a sign that is spoken against -- and a sword will pierce through your own soul also -- that thoughts out of many hearts may be revealed" (Luke 2:34b-35).
Thus Jesus crushed the serpent directly and was directly struck by the serpent; Mary, through her cooperation in the incarnation and her witnessing the sufferings and death of her Son, indirectly crushed the serpent and was indirectly struck by the serpent.
This has long been recognized by Catholics. The footnotes provided a couple of hundred years ago by Bishop Challoner in his revision of the Douay state, "The sense [of these two readings] is the same: for it is by her seed, Jesus Christ, that the woman crushes the serpent's head."
In (Rev. 12:17) the woman is Israel.


As to why these are only two verses, because there are only two verses. You have some great mystery you want to share?

If you fail to see similarities, there is nothing I can say that will reveal them to you.

Galatians 4
21 Tell me, you who want to be under the law, are you not aware of what the law says? 22 For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the slave woman and the other by the free woman. 23 His son by the slave woman was born according to the flesh, but his son by the free woman was born as the result of a divine promise.
24 These things are being taken figuratively: The women represent two covenants. One covenant is from Mount Sinai and bears children who are to be slaves: This is Hagar. 25 Now Hagar stands for Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present city of Jerusalem, because she is in slavery with her children. 26 But the Jerusalem that is above is free, and she is our mother.

27 For it is written:

“Be glad, barren woman,
you who never bore a child;
shout for joy and cry aloud,
you who were never in labor;
because more are the children of the desolate woman than of her who has a husband.”


28 Now you, brothers and sisters, like Isaac, are children of promise. 29 At that time the son born according to the flesh persecuted the son born by the power of the Spirit. It is the same now. 30 But what does Scripture say? “Get rid of the slave woman and her son, for the slave woman’s son will never share in the inheritance with the free woman’s son.” 31 Therefore, brothers and sisters, we are not children of the slave woman, but of the free woman.

also see ~ Revelation 21:2, 9,10.

I believe the woman represents the covenant with Israel God's chosen people but it also represents the new covenant. The New Jerusalem is where all people who believe in Jesus by faith shall live as citizens of the heavenly Jerusalem coming down out of heaven from God....

I don't see how these verses replace, supplant, contradict or cancel out the title of Ark of the New Covenant. Where in scripture is the New Jerusalem pregnant? I am not disagreeing with those verses, not one bit, but I had to do some digging that would answer your post without getting too far off topic (which is my fault for bring up Gen. 3:15, and Rev. 12:17, which could be separate threads)

Zephaniah 3:14-18a-20] speaks of the Daughter of Zion, the personification of the city of Jerusalem. Let us reflect on the significance of this title of the holy city of Jerusalem and see how and why the Church appropriated the title for Mary, Mother of the Lord.

Daughter of Zion is the personification of the city of Jerusalem. Zion was the name of the Jebusite citadel that later became the City of David. In the many texts of the Old Testament that speak of the Daughter of Zion, there is no real distinction to be made between a daughter of Zion and the city of Jerusalem itself.

In the Old Testament, the title Virgin of Israel is the same as the Daughter of Zion. The image of the bride of the Lord is found in Hosea, Chapters 1-3: It reflects the infidelity of the people to their God.

Jeremiah 3:3-4 speaks of prostitution and the infidelity of the bride. Virginity in the Old Testament is fidelity to the Covenant. In 2 Corinthians 11:2, Paul speaks of the Church as a pure virgin. Here, virginity is the purity of faith.
Throughout the Old Testament, it is in Zion-Jerusalem that God shall gather together all of his people. In Isaiah 35:10, the tribes of Israel shall gather in Zion. In Ezekiel 22:17-22, the prophet describes God’s purification of his people that shall take place “within” the walls of the city, in the midst of Jerusalem.

The Hebrew word used to describe this inner section of the city is “beqervah,” a word formed from the root “qerev” meaning something deep, intimate, situated deep within a person. It also means the maternal womb, the intestines, the breast, the insides of a person, the most secret area of one’s soul where wisdom, spirit, malice and the Law of the Lord dwell. Therefore, the city of Jerusalem has a definite maternal function in the history of salvatio

In the Christian Tradition

The Second Vatican Council formally called Mary “Daughter of Zion” in the dogmatic constitution on the Church “Lumen Gentium” (No. 52). The Church’s appropriation of this title for the Mother of the Lord has a rich Scriptural foundation. Mary illustrates the prophecies of the Old Testament that ascribed value to the eschatological role of woman as mother both of the Messiah and of the new people of God. (it's BOTH/AND, not EITHER/OR)

The title Daughter of Zion evokes the great biblical symbolism of the Messianic Zion. Mary illustrates the prophecies of the Hebrew Scriptures which ascribed value to the eschatological role of woman as mother both of the Messiah and of the new people of God: the individual person and the whole people being very closely united, in line with the cultural structures of Israel.
For the prophets, the Daughter of Zion was the spouse of the Lord when she observed the covenant. Mary’s role as Daughter of Zion, or for that matter any of her roles in the life of God’s people, can never be understood independently of Christ and of the Spirit, which he bestows upon all humanity in dying on the cross.

“Lumen Gentium” says that all theology and Marian piety belong to the mystery of Christ and to the mystery of the Church.
Mary, Daughter of Zion, is the archetype of the Church as Bride, Virgin and Mother. It is not only biological virginity, but also spiritual virginity, which means fidelity to the Scriptures, openness toward others, and purity in faith.

Mary’s words to the servants at the wedding banquet in Cana (John 2:1-12) are an invitation to all peoples to become part of the new people of God. Mary is the new “Daughter of Zion” because she has invited the servants to perfectly obey Jesus the Lord. At Cana this new Daughter of Zion has given voice to all people.

Both at Cana and at Calvary (in John’s Gospel), Mary represents not only her maternity and physical relationship with her son, but also her highly symbolic role of Woman and Mother of God’s people. At Calvary, more than any other place in the fourth Gospel, Mary is “Mother Zion”: her spiritual maternity begins at the foot of the cross.

As “Mother Zion,” she not only welcomes and represents Israel, but the Church, the People of God of the New Covenant. At the foot of the cross, Mary is the mother of the new messianic people, of all of those who are one in Christ.
She who bore Jesus in her womb now takes her place in the assembly of God’s holy people. She is the new Jerusalem: In her own womb was the Temple, and all peoples shall be gathered back to the Temple, which is her Son. The Mother of Jesus is indeed the Mother of all of God’s scattered children. She is Mother of the Church. Mary is the first Daughter of Zion, leading all of God’s people on the journey toward the Kingdom.

Paul tells us to rejoice in the Lord always [Philippians 4:4-7; see also Philippians 2:18; 3:1;4.4). The rejoicing to which St. Paul invites us, and which forms the heart of the Advent season. But we must ask ourselves, what did persecuted Christians have to rejoice about?
The answer is their relationship with the Lord, which can even become stronger and more intimate in times of persecution. Their joy is not in their circumstance; indeed it is often in spite of their circumstance. Rather it is in the Lord.

Sheer joy arises out of a deep and abiding relationship with God that carries the believer through all sorts of trials and tribulations. Rejoicing in the Lord is a sort of adoration, and adoration often takes the form of prayer. Rejoicing constantly leads to praying and praising repeatedly. Since Paul refers to giving thanks after he mentions prayer, it is probable that the term “praying” refers to petitioning God in some form, perhaps interceding for self and others in some manner.

The opposite of rejoicing

The opposite of rejoicing and happiness is not sorrow, but deadness that often manifests itself through cynicism, meanness of spirit and smallness of mind and heart. Many of us know what that feels like: the deadness and dissatisfaction induced by a consumer culture that stimulates our senses and bombards us with largely meaningless choices, while leaving us starved for some deeper purpose.

Then there is jealousy, envy, and that gnawing feeling that we have accomplished so little because we have been so poorly motivated and made some bad choices. And when we realize that others have been able to do much because they have been rooted in God, we become jealous and envious. These are not new phenomena!

The desire to escape such deadness and dissatisfaction was one of the motives of the early desert fathers and mothers. They rejected a world whose agenda was defined by the pursuit of power, property, and pleasure. They went into the desert to tap into the source of life and joy, and discover their own true selves through constant prayer. Having found the emptiness of what their culture defined as happiness, they sought another way.

“Not that she is in any way spared sufferings: she stands, the mother of sorrows, at the foot of the cross, associated in an eminent way with the sacrifice of the innocent Servant. But she is also open in an unlimited degree to the joy of the resurrection...

“The first of the redeemed, immaculate from the moment of her conception, the incomparable dwelling-place of the Spirit, the pure abode of the Redeemer of mankind, she is at the same time the beloved Daughter of God and, in Christ, the Mother of all. She is the perfect model of the Church both on earth and in glory.”

https://zenit.org/articles/shout-for-joy-o-daughter-zion/

 

[Angelina]

Now you have created a new subject...

The Mother of Jesus is indeed the Mother of all of God’s scattered children. She is Mother of the Church. Mary is the first Daughter of Zion, leading all of God’s people on the journey toward the Kingdom.

Mary is not the Mother of all God's scattered children. I disagree. She is may be the Mother of your Church but not the N/T church. Mary does not need to lead anyone because Jesus has already done and is doing that through his Holy Spirit that dwells within every believer in Christ. Mary was blessed by God to have the honor of bearing God's only begotten son but she is just a flesh and blood woman. Her mother was Anne and her Father was Joachim.

“The first of the redeemed, immaculate from the moment of her conception, the incomparable dwelling-place of the Spirit, the pure abode of the Redeemer of mankind, she is at the same time the beloved Daughter of God and, in Christ, the Mother of all. She is the perfect model of the Church both on earth and in glory.”

Mary was not the first to be redeemed because Jesus had not died yet and she was still alive when he went to his Father in Heaven. This is the kind of stuff that leads people into error. This topic is now closed.

 

[epostle1]

Kepha31 I don't appreciate the way you are talking to me in the above post.
You are coming across very hostile which is completely unnecessary. I am addressing Marymog because I am trying to understand what she is meaning. I do not understand what you have written or why? :huh:

Nothing hostile about it, Angelina. You said, "this does not necessarily mean that the jar that held the manna represented Mary."
No one said or implied that, so why would you say "this does not necessarily mean..." ??

 

[Angelina]

Again Kepha31, I was trying to understand what she meant by answering every avenue that I thought she was referring to. This does not mean I had it right and yes... you were being hostile and I don't appreciate it. Marymog, If you wish to discuss this further please feel free to PM me. Bless ya!