Was Adam Imparted Free Will From The Beginning Of Creation?

[Kermos]

Our gracious Benefactor, the One True God of we beneficiary children of God, produces

1. divine choice of we beneficiaries unto salvation, for the Christ of us Christians says
   
   "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) and "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19)
   
   AND, Paul is in accord with Jesus' words for he wrote to the Ephesians "Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly [places] in Christ, just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him in love" (Ephesians 1:3-4)
   
   SO, clearly, Jesus' words in John 15:16 and John 15:19 state God exclusively chooses us believers by/of/through God
   
   
2. beneficiaries' faith/belief in Lord Jesus, for the Christ of us Christians says (see also a word about belief/faith (Greek πίστις pistis) and believe (Greek πιστεύω pisteuó))
   "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29)
   
   AND Paul is in accord with Jesus' words for he wrote to the Ephesians "by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, [it is] the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus" (Ephesians 2:8-10)
   
   SO, clearly, Jesus' words in John 6:29 state for us believers to believe in Jesus whom the Father has sent is by/of/through God
   
   
3. beneficiaries' fruit of the Spirit/righteous actions/good works, for the Christ of us Christians says
   "he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God" (John 3:21)
   
   AND Paul is in accord with Jesus' words for he wrote to the Philippians "being filled with the fruit of righteousness that [is] by Jesus Christ, to the glory and praise of God" (Philippians 1:11)
   
   SO, clearly, Jesus' words in John 3:21 state fruit in we believers is by/of/through God
   
   
4. beneficiaries' birth by the Holy Spirit, for the Christ of us Christians says
   "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not be amazed that I said to you, 'You must be born again.' The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit" (John 3:5-8)
   
   AND Peter is in accord with Jesus' words for he wrote to persons residing as aliens "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead" (1 Peter 1:3)
   
   SO, clearly, Jesus' words in John 3:5-8 state we believers being born again is by/of/through God
   
   
5. beneficiaries' repent by God's working, for the Christ of us Christians says
   "I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and intelligent and have revealed them to babes" (Matthew 11:25)
   
   AND the apostles and elders glorified God, saying, "Well then, God has granted to the Gentiles also the repentance that leads to life" (Acts 11:18)
   
   SO, clearly, Jesus' words in Matthew 11:25 state that God causes man to think differently after an encounter with God (repent means to think differently afterward)
   
   
6. beneficiaries' love by God's working, for the Christ of us Christians says
   "A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another" (John 13:34)
   
   AND John is in accord with Jesus' words for he wrote "Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God" (1 John 4:7)
   
   SO, clearly, Jesus' words in John 13:34 states that the love, the very righteous love, the Godly love within us children of God, this love is of/by/through God

 

[post]

Scripture does not state the the name Eve (Genesis 3:20) is a replacement for the name Woman (Genesis 2:23).

is your position that Adam had two wives? lol

"she shall be called Woman" Genesis 2:23
"Adam called his wife’s name Eve" Genesis 3:20

in both places a reason is given:
when her name was Woman, because she was taken out of man.
when her name became Eve, because she would be the mother of all the living.

now, in Genesis 3:20, they have both just become "dying-they-shall-die"
they have been judged, expelled, and a guard set on the tree of life.

so i am asking you a very obvious question that anyone who reads Genesis ought to ask:
why does dead Adam change his dead wife's name to "life" ?

it's time to set your pedantry aside and study the scripture.

 

[post]

why does dead Adam change his dead wife's name to "life" ?

is Adam an idiot or has Adam just done an extraordinary thing?

 

[Wynona]

What an interesting question. Id like to try.

I believe Adam and Eve had free will since their creation.

I think the choice as a opposed to predetermination is important because it calls into question the nature of God and our salvation.

Lets be clear on what a choice is. From Oxford languages:

choice
/CHois/
Learn to pronounce

noun

1. an act of selecting or making a decision when faced with two or more possibilities.

Lets look at what Adam and Eve faced in the garden.
Genesis 2:16-17 KJV

16 And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:

17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

So they could eat every tree of the garden but not the tree of knowledge of good and evil. So if a choice is a selection than this is the choice God gave them:

Every tree of the garden

The tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

They chose the latter.

Now, lets define free will:

free will
/ˌfrē ˈwil/

noun

1. the power of acting without the constraint of necessity or fate; the ability to act at one's own discretion.

God already implied they had freedom.

Genesis 2:16 And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:

My question is, if Adam and Eve were meant to Fall from the beginning, why was there options for them to eat without punishment. Why would God imply their freedom in eating it if they acted as they were predetermined?

They weren't. God knew they would make that choice. But to know something is not the same as making the creation do it.

Thank you ahead of time, @Kermos. I apologize if Ive repeated something said before. Ive followed quite a few pages of this thread before answering.

 

[post]

to disobey God's command not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil (Genesis 2:16-17)

death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come.
(Romans 5:14)​

• Adam sinned in a particular way, that not everyone sins in
  
• Adam is a type of Christ

what is 'sinning according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam' ?
who sins this way, and who are the 'those' who had not sinned this way?
do you sin like Adam, or do you sin not-like-Adam? do you do both?

clearly Adam is an antithesis of Christ in that death entered the world through him ((why not Woman, who was first in transgression?)) and through him and one transgression, all died, while through Christ all live by one sacrifice -- but,
in what way is Adam like Christ?

For when we were still without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. For scarcely for a righteous man will one die; yet perhaps for a good man someone would even dare to die. But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
(Romans 5:6-8)​

here's the opening context of the statement that Adam is like Christ, and discussion thereof.
did Adam die for someone?
did Adam demonstrate his love for someone?

 

[post]

Adam wasn't deceived, but his wife was. ((1 Timothy 2))

why is it important for us to know that there was deception; that one fell being deceived, and the other entered transgression without being deceived?

what does it take to be deceived? can you be deceived if you have no independent intellect? can you be deceived if you are incapable of decision? can you be deceived if you have no ability to make moral choice? can you be deceived if you have no concept of right or wrong? do you need to deceive someone who blindly does anything they're told?

suppose i have a wind-up toy that walks in whatever direction i set it down. it can't turn, it can't stop, it has no awareness of where it's going or even whether it is going anywhere at all. it's just a mechanical device, with no mind.
suppose i want it to run into a wall -- what do i do? i point it at the wall. now, do i have to deceive the wind-up-toy, and convince it that there's no wall there? does the word 'deceive' even make any sense in the context of a simple machine that can't act independently? or does 'deceive' necessarily imply consciousness, intelligence, and capacity for independent thought & volition?

why do we have two sins in the garden, one being deceived, and the other without any deception?
why does Romans 5 make a big deal out of the difference between the two being significant?
why does sin & death not enter the world through the transgression committed under deception, but enter and spread to the whole world through the sin that was committed without deception -- i.e. with full, accurate, conscious knowledge of the action & its consequence, free from any coercion?

Woman sinned first. ((1 Timothy 2))
sin did not enter the world through her.

why not?

 

[Kermos]

this is inconsistent with them being judged separately.

so why did God say "Behold!!" Adam is become like one of ((the)) Us?

the Hebrew says 'the' man -- definite article, and singular -- indicating it's specifically Adam, not 'a man' and not 'mankind'

That which is written is written, so if you find it inconsistent that problem is in you, not God.

Both Adam and Eve died, so they had the same judgment and punishment.

Also Adam and Eve had separate judgements and punishments.

Adam and Eve are one flesh, for thus says the Lord "from the beginning of creation, [God] made them male and female. For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother, and the two shall become one flesh; so they are no longer two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together let no man separate" (Mark 10:6-9).

They were both one flesh removed from the garden (Genesis 3:23-24, Genesis 4:1). A common punishment for them both.

The Apostle Paul also wrote "just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men" (Romans 5:12), so "the man" referenced in the Word of God "Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil" (Genesis 3:22) has broader scriptural meaning than your post shows.

You @post are not in the garden of Eden, so your speculations about judgments and punishments are useless.

No free will indicated therein, just like Paul wrote with "not willingly" and "until now" respecting the creation (Romans 8:20-22).

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

 

[Kermos]

{belief/unbelief} is binary.

please state plainly: is your position that Adam & his wife are unbelievers?

"Believing" is not mentioned in the creation account.

You may have no problem adding into the Word of God recorded in Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24.. Do not expect me to participate in such abominable sin against God.

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

 

[post]

Believing" is not mentioned in the creation account.

You're not answering my questions.
I left your derisive remarks out of the quote

Is it your position that Adam and his wife are unbelievers?

 

[post]

Do not expect me to participate in such abominable sin against God.

Excuse me, you are saying that studying the Bible is an abominable sin against God ?

 

[post]

You may have no problem adding into the Word of God

Show me the verse that says "there is no free will"

?

 

[post]

"Believing" is not mentioned in the creation account.

do you believe Adam & Woman/Eve are saved? do they believe God? what does Genesis 2-4 say?

you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) and "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19)

SO, clearly, Jesus' words in John 15:16 and John 15:19 state God exclusively chooses us believers by/of/through God

did God choose Adam? did God choose Woman? did He reveal Himself to them; did they know Him?
did they confess their sin to Him and have faith in Him for their salvation? did Adam answer God when God called him?
did God take Adam out of the world and place him in paradise? did God shed blood and cover Adam and his wife?
did God take Woman out of Man? did God create them?

was God's purpose in creating them to murder them, their children and their animals? do you agree with the Jews at Meribah, at both Meribahs?


dude i am giving you a chance to preach the gospel through Genesis 2-4. why are you not jumping on it? who cares about your hypercalvinism when we have the Word of God? your hypercalvinism is worthless!

 

[post]

You may have no problem adding into the Word of God

show me the verse that says there is no such thing as will!
why does Romans 8 include the concept of will if there is no such thing? who was cursed in Genesis 3 without having executed any action in the text?
does God curse Satan because Satan was doing God's will and couldn't resist God's will?
who is it in Romans 9 that says "how can God judge?"
are these smart people? are they wise? who are these people?
are they righteous people that infer that God cannot judge? no? so why are they asking? what kind of questions do the wicked ask about the character of God?
is God the author of sin? who says He is? who says He isn't?

why is Satan cursed by God "above all cattle" ?
why are the cattle cursed? search the scripture! have cattle been even mentioned or alluded to since the time it's written they were created?
is the creation "very good" ? is God good?

have i been doing anything in this thread apart from insisting we understand His Word and asking basic, intuitive questions about it?
and what have you been doing? and what has been your reaction to me asking about the understanding of rudimentary facts of the scripture?
who are you in this story? are you like Adam? put yourself in his shoes; you were in his loins, just like me! what would you do differently, and why? why did he do what he did? who is he?

 

[Kermos]

uh huh... nobody said that, ever.

i asked you why Adam & his wife were not cursed - why only Satan & the ground 'for Adam's sake' ?

"Why" is up to God, and that which is written in Genesis 3:14-19 is written.

Fools exuberantly folly in second guessing God. For the Word of God must be added to by fools or subtracted from by fools to satisfy their lustful pride for glory in purchasing their own being saved from the wrath of God.

Still, no free will written in Genesis 3:14-19, just like Paul conveyed with man "not willingly" and "until now" (Romans 8:20-22).

 

[Kermos]

i guess you haven't noticed but i'm talking about Genesis 2-4, not about your hypercalvinism. it's important.

um, you're accusing me of this because i asked a string of obvious questions that absolutely everyone who is conscious & reads Genesis 2-4 should ask?

wow

this is a very weird forum.

God has me, a Christian, here proclaiming the Word of God. For the Lord Jesus has mercifully and graciously given me a love for God's Word.

Your questions obviously embed your free-willian philosophy, so...

You proclaim the word of @post. For you adulterate the Word of God with "choose" such that it is no longer the Word of God.

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam "not willingly" ate of the tree since Paul included all time prior to Paul's birth by his writing "until now" (Romans 8:20-22).

 

[post]

Fools exuberantly folly in second guessing God

Understanding scripture is not "second guessing God" nor is studying it "an abomination"

If you can't answer basic, obvious questions like "wait, why would Adam change his wife's name to Eve?" then you clearly do not understand what you are reading.

Memorizing the words doesn't mean you have any idea what they mean.

You are really something extraordinary to be calling me such evil things, just because I'm trying to get you to understand what you read!

Still, no free will written in the creation account

Quite the bold claim for someone who doesn't even know what he's reading!

 

[post]

You proclaim the word of @post. For you adulterate the Word of God with "choose" such that it is no longer the Word of God.

Unwarranted and unjustifiable personal attacks are what people resort to when they cannot answer.

Why did Adam change Woman's name to Eve?
This is Bible 101 mate.
Do you have any comprehension of Genesis or do you think 'studying the Bible = turning off your brain?'

The gospel is written all over these chapters. This is testifying of Christ!
Now, can you see it? Then tell us! Witness!
Show me how these things are revealing the gospel.

If you can't even answer why Adam took the fruit, you clearly are unqualified to be telling us there is no free will in Genesis.

Why does God make coverings for Adam and Eve? Can you understand any of this?

God put everything we need to know in this Book to answer every single one of my questions! I am not asking because I don't know, but so that you might learn knowledge of God.

 

[post]

Genesis 3:21
Also for Adam and his wife the LORD God made tunics of skin, and clothed them.

Why?
What kind of skin?
What's the significance of this?
Is this a good thing or an evil thing?
What's the NT compliment of this?

 

[post]

For the Lord Jesus has mercifully and graciously given me a love for God's Word

Kinda hard to believe you when you say that but you accuse me of abomination for asking basic questions like "why"?

How can you say you love the Word and know nothing about it? While you refuse to even begin to understand it and curse anyone who tries to?

If you loved the Bible you would either have answers or be busy looking for them.

Why fig leaves?
Why didn't they eat from the tree of life?
Why does God say they must be prevented from doing so?
Why are Cain and Abel making an offering in the next chapter?
Why did sin enter the world through Adam rather than the first in transgression?
Why does God take great care to point out that Woman was deceived but Adam was not?
Why are the serpent and the earth cursed, but Adam and Eve are not cursed?

Do you know?
Do you think understanding what you read is sinful?

 

[post]

@Kermos

Until you can start answering some of these questions you have zero credibility acting like you know what's in Genesis and what's not.