Was Adam Imparted Free Will From The Beginning Of Creation?

[Kermos]

No, I did not ADD "choosing" to Scripture.
My word "choosing" was my one word, of my understanding of God giving Adam authority to name the animals whatever Adam decided to name them.

Your understanding is your thoughts.

Your thoughts are adding the word "choosing" into the recorded scripture in Genesis 2:19-20 because the word "choosing" is not there in the passage which was carefully demonstrated to you in the post to which you replied.

It is NOT written "and God placed one of the four footed creatures in front of Adam and God asked 'what name do you choose for this creature cat dog or deer?'".

Nor does is say "Adam decided to name..."

Adam gave (assigned) names to the animals.

You are prolific at adding to scripture.

And? Why do you repeat yourself?
Unlike YOU, I am fully aware Jesus was SPEAKING TO the disciples Jesus "CHOSE".

Don't YOU read Scripture?
Don't YOU KNOW whom Jesus CHOSE?
Don't YOU KNOW whom Jesus was speaking TO?

Luke 6:
[13] And when it was day, he called unto him his disciples: and of them he chose twelve, whom also he named apostles;

Luke recorded that there were more than 12 disciples with "he called unto him his disciples: and of them" (Luke 6:13), and Jesus chose 12 which He named as apostles from among all the disciples.

Luke recorded there being more disciples of Jesus than the twelve disciples named apostles, and the Apostle John recorded that the disciples were at the dinner recorded in John chapters 13-17.

John did not write "apostles" rather John did write "disciples" with reference to being at the dinner recorded in John chapters 13-17.

In "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) as well as "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation) Lord Jesus is speaking to all disciples that believe in Jesus in all time.

False Accusation.

God chooses, Men choose.
Blessed is the man WHOM Gods chooses!
Beloved is the man WHOM chooses God!

Pss 65
[4] Blessed is the man whom thou choosest, and causest to approach unto thee, that he may dwell in thy courts: we shall be satisfied with the goodness of thy house, even of thy holy temple.

For Psalm 65:4, you wickedly subtracted "causest to approach unto thee" and added in "WHOM chooses God".

The psalmist wrote that God causes a man to approach God

THE PSALMIST WROTE THAT GOD CAUSES MAN TO APPROACH GOD!

CAUSES, not man chooses God, but GOD CAUSES MAN.

You proclaim "the word of you". For you adulterate the Word of God with "choose" such that it is no longer the Word of God.

1 Thes 1:
[4] Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.

That is a false translation.

The accurate translation is "knowing, brethren beloved by God, His choice of you" (1 Thessalonians 1:4).

God makes the choice of specific persons.

Persons do not choose God for the Word of God says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16).

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24),

FREEWILL of a man...IS a mans "WILL", TO CHOOSE as he decides!

You certainly can Freely choose, to limit yourself to Scriptures that DO NOT say FREEWILL, and ignore the Scriptures whereby God beloves a man who freely CHOOSES Him.

There is not a single scripture that states man can choose God, so you are adding free will into scripture.

Part 1 of 2 continued to post 622

 

[Kermos]

Part 2 of 2 continued from post 621

You obviously believe you have no "freewill", Yet you "choose" and by "YOUR FREEWILL" to write and post "false accusations" to me.

By the Power of God (1 Corinthians 1:24), I post the Word of God (John 1:14) to you in Truth (John 14:6).

"YOUR FREEWILL" - same as others have freewill to "SAY" and "CHOOSE" what "they" decide.

Ezra 7:
[13] I make a decree, that all they of the people of Israel, and of his priests and Levites, in my realm, which are minded of their own freewill to go up to Jerusalem, go with thee.

That is pagan king Artaxerxes' decree (Ezra 7:12) in Ezra 7:13, and a pagan king has false god(s), so in your desperation for your so-called freewill you declare yourself an adherent of a pagan king's false god(s) theology since Ezra 7:13 is your proof text for man's freewill.

Almighty God, YHWH, does not issue the words of the decree in Ezra 7:13.

A prophet of Adonai YHWH does not declare the decree in Ezra 7:13 as the words of Almighty God.

Tbe word "freewill" in the KJV is "volunteer" in the NIV and "willing" in the NASB, so it is not a foregone conclusion that "freewill" is accurate in Ezra 7:13, but it matters little because the pagan king Artaxerxes was the author of the decree.

The decree is not God indicating that God imparted free will into man.

So, Ezra 7:13 fails as your proof for man's free will.

By the way, that is not choose God by man's free will in Ezra 7:13; although, that does not matter because that is a pagan king's decree.

No scripture states man was imparted a free will by God.

Josh 24;
[15] And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD,choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.

The "choose" in Joshua 24:15 applies to false gods only. The "as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD" in Joshua 24:15 is an imperative, NOT an interogative, NOT a clause with Joshua "choosing" God, NOT "as for me and my house, we will choose to serve the LORD", but specifically a declaration of action which is "serve".

Joshua 24:15 is nothing about freewill (Largely, I use freewill to mean man choosing toward God, emphatically Lord Jesus Christ).

Romans 8:20-22 says NOTHING (as YOU CLAIM)....about:

..."ate of the tree" is YOU Freely adding".
Where Paul said no such thing.

Romans 8:
[20] For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
[21] Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
[22] For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.

In "ate of the tree", Paul covered "ate" which is an action in time of "until now".

In "ate of the tree", Paul covered "tree" which is a thing as part of "the whole creation".

In "Adam ate of the tree", Paul covered "Adam" which is a person as part of "the whole creation".

Paul most certainly included "Adam ate of the tree" in Romans 8:20-22.

Therefore, you subtracted from scripture again, so, in effect, you call Paul a liar.

First of all "imparted" is your description,
Not mine.
I have no responsibility to Defend YOUR words.

Paul expressly speaks of the "creature MADE subject to vanity".

I have already EXPRESSLY posted...
God Created "AND" MADE a Creature God called a MAN-KIND of creature.

God Himself revealed the man-kind creature, God Himself "created and MADE", (that God named ADAM Adam WAS GIVEN BY GOD'S offering, the offering for Adam to NAME the animals whatever ADAM freely CHOSE to name them.

NOTHING WHATSOEVER...reveals the names ADAM chose for the animals, WERE NOT of Adams own FREEWILL Choice. (as you teach)

You are repeating yourself in the exact same post where you've already talked about Adam naming the animals!

The woman FREELY TOOK the fruit.
The woman FREELY ATE the fruit.
The woman FREELY GAVE the fruit.
The man FREELY ATE the fruit.

Gen 3:
[6] And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

You being VOID of understanding of WHAT Freewill IS, IS your problem, not mine.

"Freely" is not in the recorded words of Genesis 3:6, so you are wickedly adding "freely" into Genesis 3:6.

Furthermore, in Truth (John 14:6) the original Hebrew word of "אכל" in Genesis 2:16 meas "to eat" so the word "freely" used in the KJV is error, and this referenced post to you in this thread contains the proof.

Therefore, since you are repeating the wicked lie that the word "freely" is in Genesis 2:16-17, then you are showing your desire to practice the lawlessness of deception (Matthew 7:21-23, John 8:44, John 12:48).

You using YOUR FREEWILL to FOCUS on making false accusations from your limited understanding, IS on you, not me.

Too bad, you exercise YOUR FREEWILL for the purpose of BEING an ACCUSER...rather than FOCUSING ON "WHY" mankind "HAS" freewill.

By the Power of God (1 Corinthians 1:24), I post the Word of God (John 1:14) to you in Truth (John 14:6).

You are largely repeating your earlier points of your post now.

The LESSON IS:
God has FREEWILL
The devil has FREEWILL
Mankind has FREEWILL

...snip...

Gal 6:
[5] For every man shall bear his own burden.

In your heart, since you claim that you can choose Jesus, then you reject the Lord Jesus for He declares WHO HE IS when He says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) as well as "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation).

In your heart, you claim that you can choose Jesus, so you do not receive Lord Jesus' sayings such as "you did not choose Me" (John 15:16).

The Lord Jesus does not take kindly to you adding to the Word of God and subtracting from His sayings, and this is 100% accurate because He says "He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day" (John 12:48).

You think your word is so very important that you dictate to God as you add to and subtract from scripture.

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam "not willingly" ate of the tree since Paul included all time prior to Paul's birth by his writing "until now" (Romans 8:20-22).

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

 

[Kermos]

how many times do i need to remind you that i'm not talking about free-will vs. predestination, at all ?

Then you are off topic.

i'm just trying to help you understand Genesis 2-4, because clearly you don't.
you can't answer the first question about it.

By way of certain of your questions, you try to manipulate me into participating with you in your evil deeds of adding to the Word of God and subtracting from the Word of God in the creation account recorded in Genesis chapters 1-3.

go back to my first post in this thread; what did i say?

friend, until you understand what you're reading, you need to stop trying to preach.
you harm yourself & potentially others by what you're doing.

@post, I have not added to scripture nor have I subtracted from scripture in this thread, not once; however, you are documented committing great sin of adding to scripture and subtracting from scripture as this practical post and this additional example post illuminate this fact.

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam "not willingly" ate of the tree since Paul included all time prior to Paul's birth by his writing "until now" (Romans 8:20-22).

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

 

[Taken]

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

It matter not to me you freely pick and choose Scripture that DOES NOT APPLY to a mans Freewill, and then say, mankind does not have Freewill...

* Adam freely chose by his will to Eat of the forbidden tree.
* Adam freely chose by his will to Name Animals God brought to him.
* Men freely choose by their will what Master they will Serve.
* Men freely choose by their will to elect God.

You blathering on about you not having Freewill....simply reveals you dilly dally around waiting for someone to MAKE "their" CHOICES "FOR YOU"....
A perfect specimen for an oppressive regime.

 

[Kermos]

Romans 8:20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope

Using your line of reasoning, it would hve you adding the word “Adam”, “eat” and tree in the passage, isn’t it? There’s no “Adam” there. There’s no “eat”, no “tree” either.

Tong
R3881

No. (This is to answer your question)

In "Adam ate not willingly of the tree", Paul covered "ate" which is an action in time of "until now" in Romans 8:20-22.

In "Adam ate not willingly of the tree", Paul covered "tree" which is a thing as part of "the whole creation" in Romans 8:20-22.

In "Adam ate not willingly of the tree", Paul covered "Adam" which is a person as part of "the whole creation" in Romans 8:20-22.

In "Adam ate not willingly of the tree", Paul covered "not willingly" in Romans 8:20-22.

Paul most certainly included "Adam ate not willingly of the tree" in Romans 8:20-22.

As this post in this thread shows, God declares that Eve's voice was the cause for Adam to eat of the tree (Genesis 3:17), and Paul conveyed that Adam did not willingly eat of the tree (Romans 8:20).

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam "not willingly" ate of the tree since Paul included all time prior to Paul's birth by his writing "until now" (Romans 8:20-22).

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

 

[Kermos]

Nonsense

God did not say, 'because your wife spoke to you' but 'because you listened'

Poor @post, fails to understand such a simple concept as a brief summary link that leads to a detailed explanation.

As this post in this thread shows, God declares that Eve's voice was the cause for Adam to eat of the tree (Genesis 3:17), and Paul conveyed that Adam did not willingly eat of the tree (Romans 8:20).

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam "not willingly" ate of the tree since Paul included all time prior to Paul's birth by his writing "until now" (Romans 8:20-22).

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

 

[Tong2020]

No. (This is to answer your question)

In "Adam ate not willingly of the tree", Paul covered "ate" which is an action in time of "until now" in Romans 8:20-22.

In "Adam ate not willingly of the tree", Paul covered "tree" which is a thing as part of "the whole creation" in Romans 8:20-22.

In "Adam ate not willingly of the tree", Paul covered "Adam" which is a person as part of "the whole creation" in Romans 8:20-22.

In "Adam ate not willingly of the tree", Paul covered "not willingly" in Romans 8:20-22.

Paul most certainly included "Adam ate not willingly of the tree" in Romans 8:20-22.

As this post in this thread shows, God declares that Eve's voice was the cause for Adam to eat of the tree (Genesis 3:17), and Paul conveyed that Adam did not willingly eat of the tree (Romans 8:20).

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam "not willingly" ate of the tree since Paul included all time prior to Paul's birth by his writing "until now" (Romans 8:20-22).

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

It remains, by your line of reasoning, reasoning that “choice” is not in the Genesis 2 passage, “Adam” and “eat” are not in Romans 8:20-22.

You say here “As this post in this thread shows, God declares that Eve's voice was the cause for Adam to eat of the tree (Genesis 3:17),..”. Listen to what you say. God never declared that. These are the words of God, “Because you have heeded the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree of which I commanded you, saying, ‘You shall not eat of it”. “Heeded” is that which points to Adam’s wrong doing, heeding the voice of Eve instead that of the voice of God. He had the choice, either to heed of the voice of Eve or of the voice of God. But of course, you deny that, with your reasoning that the word “choice” is not in the Genesis 2 passage concerned. Well,….

Tong
R3889

 

[Kermos]

Of course I know that scripture. It is part of the New Covenant commandments of 1 John 3:23-24

Do you think that my not agreeing with you on angels and free will shows a lack of love? Do you think it loving to let someone believe a lie?

As I told you previously, angels are off topic.

You do not manufacture Righteous love @CharismaticLady within yourself per the Apostle John for John wrote "for love is from God" about the born of God "let us love one another" in:

"Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God" (1 John 4:7).

The very love we born of God Christians feel for others and show to others is a blessed act of God! Not man nor woman conjuring up righteous love. Righteous love is a blessed act of God in man and woman!

In love, I tell you that you cannot love righteously without being chosen by God per Lord Jesus (John 13:34) and per the Apostle John (1 John 4:7).

In love, I tell you that you cannot choose God (which means no free will) per Lord Jesus (John 3:3-8, John 15:16, John 15:19 - includes salvation) and per the Apostle Paul (Ephesians 1:1-4, Ephesians 2:8-10).

In love, I tell you that the free will that you think that you have is a deception of the devil (Matthew 15:9, John 8:44).

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam "not willingly" ate of the tree since Paul included all time prior to Paul's birth by his writing "until now" (Romans 8:20-22).

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

Wrong. And you ordering me around is not love. My point is everything God created that He wants to obey Him has free will, whether man, beasts, or angels.

 

[Desire Of All Nations]

In order for Adam to have sinned, then he had to have been given free will since sin can only be committed by choice.

 

[Kermos]

Isn’t Jesus a man?

Jesus is truly man, and Jesus is truly God.

Did He not have a will?

Please read Luke 22:42.

The thread question is not whether Jesus had a will.

The thread question is not whether Adam had a will.

The thread question is whether Adam had a freewill.

Did Jesus not love God?

The Son of God loves the Father (John 14:31).

Does not scriptures say that Adam was a type of Jesus?

Paul wrote "death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over those who had not sinned in the likeness of the offense of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come" (Romans 5:14).

So, according to Paul, Adam is "a type of Him" with Him being Jesus.

Paul explained "type" with "one man" referring to Adam "just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned" (Romans 5:12).

So, according to Paul, "sin entered into the world and death through sin" through Adam.

And, that death through sin is not Adam loving God.

And, that death through sin is not what Jesus does.

Paul explained "type" with "One" referring to Jesus bringing life through His sacrifice for persons "who receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ" (Romans 5:17).

See, Adam and death.

See, Jesus and life.

Paul compared "type" both Adam and Jesus as contributors of something to the world.

Paul contrasted "type" that Adam brought death yet Jesus brings life.

Paul compared and contrasted Adam and Jesus using "type" with "through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men, even so through one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life" (Romans 5:18).

Paul's writing does not convey that Adam loved God.

Does not scripture say of Jesus as the last Adam?

Tong
R3882

Paul wrote "thus it is written, 'The first man Adam became a living soul'; the last Adam became a life-giving spirit" (1 Corinthians 15:45).

Paul does another compare and contrast.

Behold the next verse "the spiritual is not first, but the natural; then the spiritual" (1 Corinthians 15:46).

So according to Paul the first man is the natural man, earthy and flesh (1 Corinthians 15:39).

And Paul wrote "a natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised" (1 Corinthians 2:14).

See, Adam and flesh (natural man).

See, Jesus and spiritual.

Paul ascribing Jesus as "the last Adam" does not make out Jesus to be Adam of the creation account in Genesis 1-3 nor does it make Adam of the creation account in Genesis 1-3 to be Jesus.

Rather Paul is making a contradistinction between Adam and Jesus.

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam "not willingly" ate of the tree since Paul included all time prior to Paul's birth by his writing "until now" (Romans 8:20-22).

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

 

[Kermos]

Kermos said in the OP, “THEN a free will Adam could not have been roaming the Garden of Eden with the ability to choose to obey God's command not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil (Genesis 2:17) “

Clearly, God commanded of the first man, not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. That makes it pretty clear that the first man has ability to eat and not eat of it, together with the ability to distinguish and identify of the tree and the fruit of it among all others.

Obedience/disobedience is a conscious act of the will or that involves the will.

Tong
R3883

Your description in your post is basically a description of free will.

So, @Tong2020, you believe that God created Adam with tbe freewill ability to prevent God's Plan of Redemption through the Christ for mankind before the foundation of the world.

I make this assertion based on you quoting item 2.1 of the original post.

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam "not willingly" ate of the tree since Paul included all time prior to Paul's birth by his writing "until now" (Romans 8:20-22).

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

 

[Kermos]

OP --->
Was Adam IMPARTED freewill from the beginning of Creation?

Who has answered YOUR Question with a YES?

I didn't.

You most certainly did answer yes to the original post question, and this post shows where you answered yes as well as my response to you.

You just lied about your own writings.

I expressly "rejected" the word "IMPARTED".

I use imparted to mean God given.

I Expressly responded to what Scripture DOES SAY.

You responded with your thoughts adding to scripture and your thoughts subtracting from scripture.

What Scripture DOES SAY is this:

Gen 3:6
6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

Regarding the OP..."FREEWILL"...
I said Yes, Adam of his FREEWILL...ATE.

The scripture says "he did eat" (Genesis 3:6), yet you wrote "Adam of his FREEWILL...ATE"; therefore, you convey that in your heart "he did choose to eat" is the scripture.

And there it is, you are wickedly adding to scripture.

Then you turn to Romans 8:20... repeatedly highlighting "not willingly"

Romans 8:
[20] For the creature was made SUBJECT TO VANITY not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,

YOU have accused me of being wicked...
Based on WHAT?
Adam being IMPARTED FREEWILL?...
I never said Adam was IMPARTED anything.
Based on WHAT?
Adam was NOT made SUBJECT TO VAINTY?
I never said Adam was NOT Subject to Vanity.

You spend so much time, saying what I did not say....why not stop your name calling, and PROVE your point...
Rom 8: "the creature WAS "not willingly" SUBJECT TO VANITY.

Since you introduce Rom 8:20...
Prove ADAM was VAIN, "because" He ATE.

Since Gen: 3:6 was introduced that reveales
Adam DID EAT ...
"PROVE" he ate Against his Freewill.

Adam did not have a God-given free will just as the original post demonstrates richly in scripture, and you fail to show that Adam had a free will according to scripture.

Here is proof that Adam ate not willingly of the tree.

In "Adam ate not willingly of the tree", Paul covered "ate" which is an action in time of "until now" in Romans 8:20-22.

In "Adam ate not willingly of the tree", Paul covered "tree" which is a thing as part of "the whole creation" in Romans 8:20-22.

In "Adam ate not willingly of the tree", Paul covered "Adam" which is a person as part of "the whole creation" in Romans 8:20-22.

In "Adam ate not willingly of the tree", Paul covered "not willingly" in Romans 8:20-22.

Paul most certainly included "Adam ate not willingly of the tree" in Romans 8:20-22.

As this post in this thread shows, God declares that Adam listening to his wife's voice was the cause for Adam to eat of the tree (Genesis 3:17), and Paul conveyed that Adam did not willingly eat of the tree (Romans 8:20).

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam "not willingly" ate of the tree since Paul included all time prior to Paul's birth by his writing "until now" (Romans 8:20-22).

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

 

[Taken]

Kermos-
Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

Since you do not have freewill...

Are you "programmed" to make choices?

 

[QuickFilly]

Was Adam Imparted Free Will From The Beginning Of Creation?

Based on Genesis appearances, no.

 

[Kermos]

Mans Freewill...
is simply a man choosing between options unimpeded.

* You trying to "rewrite" Biblical History is fraudlent.

John 2:
[13] And the Jews' passover was at hand, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem,
[14] And found in the temple those that sold oxen and sheep and doves, and the changers of money sitting:
[15] And when he had made a scourge of small cords, he drove them all out of the temple, and the sheep, and the oxen; and poured out the changers' money, and overthrew the tables;

* scripture is specific of WHO exactly Jesus drove out of the Temple, and WHY.
* scirpture nevers says every person in the Temple on that day was selling, or buying animals.
* scripture nevers says on that Passover, men were to no longer to take animals to the Temple to Offer unto the Lord.

The Apostle John did not record that the sellers nor the money changers were acting by their own free will; therefore, you are wickedly adding free will into John 2:13-15.

The sellers and the money changers or in the temple serving; however, the Lord made it clear they were not serving the Lord.

The first state of affairs for all man is to be a natural man for it is written of Adam "just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned" (Romans 5:12), and "a natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised" (1 Corinthians 2:14).

And YES Scripture absolutely says for men to Choose.

Josh 24:
[15] ...choose you this day whom ye will serve...

Such wickedness you produce, in this case being that you truncated Joshua 24:15 to justify in your heart your evil free-will point.

"If it is disagreeable in your sight to serve the LORD, choose for yourselves today whom you will serve: whether the gods which your fathers served which were beyond the River, or the gods of the Amorites in whose land you are living; but as for me and my house, we will serve YHWH" (Joshua 24:15).

The "choose" in Joshua 24:15 applies to false gods only. The "as for me and my house, we will serve YHWH" in Joshua 24:15 is an imperative, NOT an interogative, NOT a clause with Joshua "choosing" God, NOT "as for me and my house, we will choose to serve YHWH", but specifically a declaration of action which is "serve".

YHWH is not mentioned by Joshua for the people to choose in Joshua 24:15, and this aligns up with the Lord Jesus Christ's words of "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) as well as "I chose you out of the world" (John 15-19, includes salvation).

Joshua 24:15 is nothing about freewill (Largely, I use freewill to mean man choosing toward God, emphatically Lord Jesus Christ).

Every person starts out life as a slave to sin (Romans 6:20), so as a slave to sin a person has no means to change from being a slave to sin on their own (1 Corinthians 2:14).

A slave of sin is purchased solely by the Christ to be converted solely by Christ into a slave of Righteousness (Romans 6:18), and Christ is the Righteous Branch (Jeremiah 23 5).

Free will does not exist according to this Truth, that is Christ (John 14:6).

People do have a will; however, a person's will is subject to being a slave of sin, or a person's will is subject to being a slave of righteousness; moreover, a slave is not free, so a slave's will is bound to the slave's master; therefore, a slave has a bond-will.

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam “not willingly” ate of the tree since Paul included all time prior to Paul’s birth by his writing “until now” (Romans 8:20-22).

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

 

[Kermos]

But still your just wrong and just put your ahnds over your ears . You should see things and read them again because you do understand but just for argumentsake just didly dadle and repeat but do say anything but your right and the whole world is wrong :O.

That is a whole lot of "the word of you", @grumix8, which is not life.

In truth, the Word of God is life (John 14:6).

Another post filled with the word of grumix8, and not one scripture citation to support freewill
(just like this post shows four more similar posts on page 28 which has a predecessor of this post showing you did the same on page 23).

That’s a whole lot of your thoughts without the Word of God!

Your thoughts that you control you being saved from the wrath of God in your freewill keep heaping up into your precepts of men that lead to worship in vain (Matthew 15:9).

The Word of God says there is no level that a person can choose Lord Jesus because He says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) as well as "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation) - Jesus, being God, did not provide any exception for choosing toward Jesus. Lord Jesus speaks to all believers in all time because He also said "I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word" (John 17:20)! All these words of Jesus are at the same supper! All glory is God's! With man, salvation is impossible (Matthew 19:25-26)! All glory in the salvation of man is God's (John 15:5, Isaiah 42:8, Psalm 3:8)!

A word about your thoughts. It is written, “‘For My thoughts are not your thoughts, Nor are your ways My ways,’ declares the LORD. ‘For [as] the heavens are higher than the earth, So are My ways higher than your ways And My thoughts than your thoughts.'” (Isaiah 55:8-9).

A word about adding to scripture as you have done. It is written “do not add to His words or He will reprove you, and you will be proved a liar” (Proverbs 30:6), and the above explanation of your thoughts shows where you added to scripture.

Of the new Jerusalem, the Apostle John wrote “nothing unclean, and no one who practices abomination and lying, shall ever come into it, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s book of life” (Revelation 21:27) – notice that no one who practices lying gets in, and a human adding to scripture is the human lying.

Your free will assertion is referring to man attempting to override God’s thoughts with man’s thoughts, and that is evil.

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam “not willingly” ate of the tree since Paul included all time prior to Paul’s birth by his writing “until now” (Romans 8:20-22).

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

 

[Kermos]

Thank you for replying.

So you would say salvation is God's choice and not a choice we make?

I believe in the Word of God, Whom is Jesus tje Lord (John 1:14), and the Word of God says there is no level that a person can choose Lord Jesus because He says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) as well as "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation) - Jesus, being God, did not provide any exception for choosing toward Jesus. Lord Jesus speaks to all believers in all time because He also said "I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word" (John 17:20)! All these words of Jesus are at the same supper! All glory is God's! With man, salvation is impossible (Matthew 19:25-26)! All glory in the salvation of man is God's (John 15:5, Isaiah 42:8, Psalm 3:8)!

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam "not willingly" ate of the tree since Paul included all time prior to Paul's birth by his writing "until now" (Romans 8:20-22).

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

 

[Kermos]

not so.


you clearly don't understand Genesis 3: we need to fix that before you can competently discuss whether the scripture indicates man is created with free will.
so there are fundamental things 100% necessary and apropos to be discussed as a foundation for the essential thread topic. these things must be covered in order to have an intelligent conversation about the OP topic, but you are clearly not interested in making this a meaningful or useful thread. you just want a platform to parrot the theology you've been indoctrinated into.

briefly:
you're not ready to talk about the implications of Genesis 3 until you understand Genesis 3.
that's why i'm not addressing your pet idea yet. you ain't to the point where you can hear what there is to be said about it.

you don't get to skip arithmetic and expect to study calculus.

@post, you are documented committing great sin of adding to scripture and subtracting from scripture as this practical post and this additional example post illuminate this fact.

He who adds to scripture does not understand scripture, and you who subtract from scripture deceptively proclaim yourself an authority on scripture.

I have not added to scripture nor have I subtracted from scripture in this thread, not once.

Whem you wrote "I am not talking about free will" then you were off topic for this thread.

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam "not willingly" ate of the tree since Paul included all time prior to Paul's birth by his writing "until now" (Romans 8:20-22).

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

 

[Kermos]

You wrote this lengthy epistle and forget that choices cause actions! Adam "chose" to eat , chose otr listen to His wife and then ate! choice produces actions.

The scripture says "he ate" (Genesis 3:6), yet you wrote 'Adam "chose" to eat'; therefore, you convey that in your heart "he chose to eat" is the scripture.

You are wickedly adding "chose" to Genesis 3:6..

The Word of God said "Because you have listened to the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree about which I commanded you, saying, 'You shall not eat from it'" (Genesis 3:17), yet you wrote Adam "chose otr listen to His wife"; therefore, you convey that in your heart "Because you chose to listen to the voice of your wife" is the Word of God.

You are wickedly adding "chose" into the Word of God recorded in Genesis 3:17.

You are wickedly subtracting the CAUSE attributed by the Word of God recorded in Genesis 3:17 when you attributed the cause as "choices cause actions" because your thoughts are not what God said.

You proclaim "the word of you". For you adulterate the Word of God with "choose" such that it is no longer the Word of God.

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam "not willingly" ate of the tree since Paul included all time prior to Paul's birth by his writing "until now" (Romans 8:20-22).

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.