Was Bible Possession banned by the Catholic Church

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Windmillcharge

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As I stated earlier - a serious historian would have known that in "early times", MOST [ep[le were illiterate. Not only could they NOT read a Bible – they couldn’t OWN one.

They were hand-copied and very expensive to produce – and took YEARS to complete. This is why Bibles in the Early Church were CHAINED to pulpits, so that they wouldn’t be stolen and sold.
You forget the vulgate was called that because it was written in the vulgar tongue. In the roman empire Latin was the common language spoken in rome.

You are also ignorant of the literally thousands of fragments of the gospels, literacy was far more common than you presume.

Yes bibles were chained to reading pulpits once they were being produced in English, they also forbid the common people from reading out loud from the bible durring services.

Lastly. You accept that historically the rcc did prevent ordinary people from having access to the bible,
So what is your point in saying a site is anti catholic?
 
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Hobie

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What's so funny? BofL is correct. I would add "There isn't a SINGLE instance of a Pope making formal declarations or teachings that are contrary to Scripture. Full context of formal teachings are available on line for anyone who wishes to do honest research. Why don't you mock formal teachings of the last 100 years, and pull your head out of 15th century politics that colors your bigotry???
Easy to read summaries are also available, but you are afraid of them too.
Oh please, he does it all the time....as we see... to say nothing of the day the Creator made for man.
 
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Illuminator

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You forget the vulgate was called that because it was written in the vulgar tongue. In the roman empire Latin was the common language spoken in rome.
You forget that "sola scriptura" is a Latin phrase used by the so called reformers.
You are also ignorant of the literally thousands of fragments of the gospels, literacy was far more common than you presume.
You are ignorant of the fact that everyone who was literate could read and understand Latin. Even today, a doctor can write a prescription in Latin that is understood by every pharmacist in the world.
Yes bibles were chained to reading pulpits once they were being produced in English, they also forbid the common people from reading out loud from the bible durring services.
There is more "Bible" read out loud in a single Mass than in a month of Protestant services. Faith comes by HEARING the Word of God, not by READING. See Hebrews 11:38 for proof text.
Lastly. You accept that historically the rcc did prevent ordinary people from having access to the bible,
Yes, false Bibles with agendas were banned, for the same reason you would reject a modern gender free Bible. Isolating one incident in one country centuries ago, then applying to all of Catholicism is dishonest.
So what is your point in saying a site is anti catholic?
I agree with BofL. "Just for Catholics" has one big fat lie. Here it is:
I left the Roman Catholic church a few weeks later, because I felt uneasy in a church that taught salvation by human merit.
"salvation by human merit" has been repeatedly condemned by the CC throughout history. Pelagianism is a heresy. "Just for Catholics" sugar coats a heresy that is not taught by the CC.

Technically, "anti-Catholic" refers to a position that claims Catholicism is not Christian, which is absurd and self defeating. The bulk of Protestant theology is borrowed wholesale from the Catholic Church. Everything that is true in your belief system is found in the CC, so if we are wrong, so are you.

Disagreement with Catholic teachings does NOT make a person anti-Catholic. Making up lies does. That's not disagreement, it's persecution.
 
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BreadOfLife

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View attachment 41119
If that were true... brutha Einstein... they would have been speaking in perfection!

Claiming Christians should talk to dead saints is not scriptural, twirling those beads isn't scriptural, purgatory isn't scriptural, etc, etc.

Here's on e example... pope Clement XIV suppressed the Jesuits in 1773, but pope Pius VII favored them again in 1814.
WRONG, again, son.
Time for another Bible Lesson . . .

First of all – NOBODY who is in the eternal presence of Almighty God is “dead”.
Mark 12:27

He is not the God of the dead, but of the living.

Was Moses “dead” when he spoke to Jesus at the Transfiguration (Matt 17.1-9 Mark 9.2-9 Luke 9.28-36)??

Heb. 12:1
states explicitly that we are surrounded by “so great a clout of witnesses“.
Are witnesses dead – or alive?? Use your head . . .

As for Purgatory – your Scriptural ignorance is why YOU thinks it’s not Biblical.

In 2 Macc. 12:42-46, we see that Judas Maccabeus prays for the men of his army, killed in battle. Verse 44 says, “… for if he were not expecting the fallen to rise again, it would have been useless and foolish to pray for them in death.”

Matt. 5:25-26
tells us that unless we have settled our matters, we will be “handed over to the prison guard and will not be released until we have paid the last penny.”

We are told in 1 Cor. 3:12-15 that the day (judgment) will disclose the foundation that a person builds upon and how it will be revealed: If the work stands that someone built upon the foundation, that person will receive a wage. But if someone's work is burned up, that one will suffer loss; the person will be saved, but only as through fire.”

Additionally, Matt. 12:32 states, “whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come”, which indicates that there is purification after death for some. Matt. 18:32-35 and Luke 12:58-59 are additional verses that support this doctrine.

You embarrass yourself DAILY ono this forum because you are clueless about what the Bible says.

Do your
homework . . .
 

BreadOfLife

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You forget the vulgate was called that because it was written in the vulgar tongue. In the roman empire Latin was the common language spoken in rome.

You are also ignorant of the literally thousands of fragments of the gospels, literacy was far more common than you presume.

Yes bibles were chained to reading pulpits once they were being produced in English, they also forbid the common people from reading out loud from the bible durring services.
That’s a completely ignorant claim.

Generally, the congregation does NOT read aloud from Scripture, as it is not part of the Liturgy. However, the congregation recites Scripture in the Responsorial Psalm during the Liturgy of the Word.

I don’t know of any Protestant denominations that allow people to read Scripture at will aloud during their services.

Lastly. You accept that historically the rcc did prevent ordinary people from having access to the bible,
So what is your point in saying a site is anti catholic?
WHEN did I "accept" this ??

The prohibition on owning or reading a Bible was aimed at the slew of spurious and heretical versions that arose before the invention of the printing press. Rich people who could afford to have the Bible translated into the vernacular hired unqualified translators who created these outlaw Bibles. Grammatical errors that led to doctrinal errors were rampant in these shoddy translations. This cause heresies to arise to the point where the Church had to take action.

Finally – a site that tells lies and falsehoods about the Catholic church is a n ANTI-Catholic site.
It’s not anti-Catholic to disagree with the Church – but LYING is unacceptable.
 
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Hobie

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You forget the vulgate was called that because it was written in the vulgar tongue. In the roman empire Latin was the common language spoken in rome.

You are also ignorant of the literally thousands of fragments of the gospels, literacy was far more common than you presume.

Yes bibles were chained to reading pulpits once they were being produced in English, they also forbid the common people from reading out loud from the bible durring services.

Lastly. You accept that historically the rcc did prevent ordinary people from having access to the bible,
So what is your point in saying a site is anti catholic?
True, its documented, you cant even deny it, only find 'excuses' to say why it was done...
 
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JohnDB

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Where there's the usual bickering between the denominations and a list of dates and actions....(some are off slightly and incomplete)

But owning a Bible was to declare a denomination. And of course it would be against Catholic doctrine for the common man to personally read scripture.

And truly....the Bible WAS NOT READ in church services....it wasn't ever used at all....even in most protestant denominations. The Psalter and Book of Prayers was most commonly what was studied and discussed.

The Bible did not get widespread readership until the Geneva Bible was promoted and literally dumped below cost into England.

What was unique was that now every common man could own a copy for less than a week's wages. Also the Bible could be used to teach family members how to read and write. (Unheard of up to this time...usually only nobility learned this skill)

The Geneva Bible proliferated under Elizabeth (the virgin Queen) without promotion or being hindered. Some encouragement was suggested but that was the end of it.

The Geneva Bible was the Bible of Sir Francis Drake and Shakespeare...

However....
This also furthered the denominational wars started by Henry, fueled by Bloody Mary, and ignored by Elizabeth.

By the time North America was colonized the cold War between the denominations turned guerilla....and there was a constant and ongoing guerilla warfare between the denominations. (It's amazing that the 13 colonies/states/churches agreed to work together against the British)
 
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Windmillcharge

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That’s a completely ignorant claim.

Generally, the congregation does NOT read aloud from Scripture, as it is not part of the Liturgy. However, the congregation recites Scripture in the Responsorial Psalm during the Liturgy of the Word.

I don’t know of any Protestant denominations that allow people to read Scripture at will aloud during their services.


WHEN did I "accept" this ??

The prohibition on owning or reading a Bible was aimed at the slew of spurious and heretical versions that arose before the invention of the printing press. Rich people who could afford to have the Bible translated into the vernacular hired unqualified translators who created these outlaw Bibles. Grammatical errors that led to doctrinal errors were rampant in these shoddy translations. This cause heresies to arise to the point where the Church had to take action.

Finally – a site that tells lies and falsehoods about the Catholic church is a n ANTI-Catholic site.
It’s not anti-Catholic to disagree with the Church – but LYING is unacceptable.
When someone is as ignorant of history as you are it gets very boring answering you.
Right when where bibles chained on to lectures in churches?

Who determines that a bibles is heretical?

Can you list the heretical elements in the king James authorised version of the bible?
Please remember 90% of this bible is based on the work of William Tyndale excuted for translating the bible into English.
If you use any translation based on the king James authorised version then you are using a heretical bible.
 
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JohnDB

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Please remember 90% of this bible is based on the work of William Tyndale excuted for translating the bible into English.
Well truthfully.....

His bones were dug up 40 years after he died for that "heresy" and burned....

But King Henry 8th had him killed for his position on local versus centralized church leadership.
Kind Henry 8th as you recall started the Church of England and created The Great Bible. Which went largely unread...but it existed because of Tyndale's And Erasmus's work. Miles Coverdale used Tyndales translation for The Great Bible....which got that name because it was huge. Like it required a wagon to carry. Wasn't exactly going to fit in a pocket.
 
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The Learner

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Well truthfully.....

His bones were dug up 40 years after he died for that "heresy" and burned....

But King Henry 8th had him killed for his position on local versus centralized church leadership.
Kind Henry 8th as you recall started the Church of England and created The Great Bible. Which went largely unread...but it existed because of Tyndale's And Erasmus's work. Miles Coverdale used Tyndales translation for The Great Bible....which got that name because it was huge. Like it required a wagon to carry. Wasn't exactly going to fit in a pocket.
Tired one asks, did anyone say BBQ?
 
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JohnDB

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Tired one asks, did anyone say BBQ?
No kidding...
That's some real angst and frustration going on there.

From Henry killing Tyndale trying to explain that the Bible really doesn't have a position on the political "local vx central leadership " issue. He could have had a friend in Tyndale....but it wasn't to be. He was martyred....which makes him yet another hero of sorts along the lines of Stephen.

There are times when people try to do good things but fail miserably....this is another one.
Where Romean Catholic Church was correct in that Latin is a much better receptor language than Olde English it isn't as bad as modern English is. (It really has issues)

And a lot of the language simple doesn't translate.

CASE IN POINT: John 1:12
This verse is written in the past tense completely as if the action is completed and finished. But we know that this (hopefully) isn't exactly true because then we, today, are without hope.
But because of the Aortist tense turned perfect tense by a modifier not existing in the English rules of grammar....they really didn't have a tense to choose from. So Wycliffe, Tyndale, and Erasmus chose past tense for when issues like these came up. Not that it was right either but hoped that someone who knew Latin grammar would explain it to people that this verse was true throughout all time and not really past tense at all.
 
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Illuminator

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When someone is as ignorant of history as you are it gets very boring answering you.
Right when where bibles chained on to lectures in churches?
If you calculate the time put in to hand written copies, it would come to thousands of $ a copy. "The common people" didn't have that kind of money. Bibles were chained to give everyone access, not to forbid reading it, much the same reason why phone books are chained to a phone booth.
Who determines that a bibles is heretical?
You would determine a gender free Bible as heretical by using your brain.
Can you list the heretical elements in the king James authorised version of the bible?
BofL never said the KJV was heretical. Unqualified translators added their own spin.
Please remember 90% of this bible is based on the work of William Tyndale excuted for translating the bible into English.
That's not why he was executed.
So what was the real reason William Tyndale was condemned? Was translating the Bible into English actually illegal? The answer is no. The law that was passed in 1408 was in reaction to another infamous translator, John Wycliff. Wycliff had produced a translation of the Bible that was corrupt and full of heresy. It was not an accurate rendering of sacred Scripture.

Both the Church and the secular authorities condemned it and did their best to prevent it from being used to teach false doctrine and morals. Because of the scandal it caused, the Synod of Oxford passed a law in 1408 that prevented any unauthorized translation of the Bible into English and also forbade the reading of such unauthorized translations.

It is a fact usually ignored by Protestant historians that many English versions of the Scriptures existed before Wycliff, and these were authorized and perfectly legal (see Where We Got the Bible by Henry Graham, chapter 11, “Vernacular Scriptures Before Wycliff”). Also legal would be any future authorized translations. And certainly reading these translations was not only legal but also encouraged. All this law did was to prevent any private individual from publishing his own translation of Scripture without the approval of the Church.

Which, as it turns out, is just what William Tyndale did. Tyndale was an English priest of no great fame who desperately desired to make his own English translation of the Bible. The Church denied him for several reasons.

First, it saw no real need for a new English translation of the Scriptures at this time. In fact, booksellers were having a hard time selling the print editions of the Bible that they already had. Sumptuary laws had to be enacted to force people into buying them.

Second, we must remember that this was a time of great strife and confusion for the Church in Europe. The Reformation had turned the continent into a very volatile place. So far, England had managed to remain relatively unscathed, and the Church wanted to keep it that way. It was thought that adding a new English translation at this time would only add confusion and distraction where focus was needed.

Lastly, if the Church had decided to provide a new English translation of Scripture, Tyndale would not have been the man chosen to do it. He was known as only a mediocre scholar and had gained a reputation as a priest of unorthodox opinions and a violent temper. He was infamous for insulting the clergy, from the pope down to the friars and monks, and had a genuine contempt for Church authority. In fact, he was first tried for heresy in 1522, three years before his translation of the New Testament was printed. His own bishop in London would not support him in this cause.

Finding no support for his translation from his bishop, he left England and came to Worms, where he fell under the influence of Martin Luther. There in 1525 he produced a translation of the New Testament that was swarming with textual corruption. He willfully mistranslated entire passages of Sacred Scripture in order to condemn orthodox Catholic doctrine and support the new Lutheran ideas. The Bishop of London claimed that he could count over 2,000 errors in the volume (and this was just the New Testament).

And we must remember that this was not merely a translation of Scripture. His text included a prologue and notes that were so full of contempt for the Catholic Church and the clergy that no one could mistake his obvious agenda and prejudice. Did the Catholic Church condemn this version of the Bible? Of course it did.

The secular authorities condemned it as well. Anglicans are among the many today who laud Tyndale as the “father of the English Bible.” But it was their own founder, King Henry VIII, who in 1531 declared that “the translation of the Scripture corrupted by William Tyndale should be utterly expelled, rejected, and put away out of the hands of the people.”

So troublesome did Tyndale’s Bible prove to be that in 1543—after his break with Rome—King Henry VIII again decreed that “all manner of books of the Old and New Testament in English, being of the crafty, false, and untrue translation of Tyndale . . . shall be clearly and utterly abolished, extinguished, and forbidden to be kept or used in this realm.”

Ultimately, it was the secular authorities that proved to be the end for Tyndale. He was arrested and tried (and sentenced to die) in the court of the Emperor in 1536. His translation of the Bible was heretical because it contained heretical ideas—not because the act of translation was heretical in and of itself. In fact, the Catholic Church would produce a translation of the Bible into English a few years later (The Douay-Reims version, whose New Testament was released in 1582 and whose Old Testament was released in 1609).

When discussing the history of Biblical translations, it is very common for people to toss around names like Tyndale and Wycliff. But the full story is seldom given. This present case of a gender-inclusive edition of the Bible is a wonderful opportunity for Fundamentalists to reflect and realize that the reason they don’t approve of this new translation is the same reason that the Catholic Church did not approve of Tyndale’s or Wycliff’s. These are corrupt translations, made with an agenda, and not accurate renderings of sacred Scripture.

And here at least Fundamentalists and Catholics are in ready agreement: Don’t mess with the Word of God.
If you use any translation based on the king James authorised version then you are using a heretical bible.
You are being obtuse. Catholics are free to use the KJV if they want.

Some Protestants will tell you that the only acceptable version of the Bible is the King James. This position is known as King James-onlyism. Its advocates often make jokes such as, “If the King James Version was good enough for the apostle Paul, it is good enough for me.” They commonly claim that the King James is based on the only perfect set of manuscripts we have (a false claim; there is no perfect set of manuscripts; and the ones used for the KJV were compiled by a Catholic, Erasmus); that it is the only translation that avoids modern, liberal renderings; and that its translators were extremely saintly and scholarly men. Since the King James is also known as “the Authorized Version” (AV), its advocates sometimes argue that it is the only version to ever have been “authorized.” To this one may point out that it was only authorized in the Anglican church, which now uses other translations.
read more here
 
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amadeus

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I recall that at one time, (some?) colleges required you to have at least 18 semester hours of philosophy to graduate with a degree in anything. (Just throwing that out there since it popped up in my mind.)
That was not so where I attended. I had two classes in Philosophy [about 1966-1967 in California] but they were both electives [my choice]. They helped me to think about things. Of course, at the time, I was not serving God.
 
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