Was David lying?

[aspen]

It says he was pretending. Is that the same as lying?

Sounds like “I am JUST joking! Jeez”

 

[aspen]

David also killed the people who came to him and told them they had killed Saul and Abner.....

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

Was it a real temptation Jesus encountered in the wilderness or was it a fictional moral challenge (Matt 4:1-11 NIV)?

We have every reason to believe that it was a real temptation as one facet was the devil tempting Jesus to turn the stones into bread (which I believe He could have done, had He wanted to). We know that He had been without food for many days and was very hungry.

 

[Enoch111]

Was it a real temptation Jesus encountered in the wilderness or was it a fictional moral challenge (Matt 4:1-11 NIV)?

There are two sides to temptations. On one side is the external enticement to sin. On the other side is the capacity to yield to that enticement (or not).

Satan believes he very smart, but he was not smart enough to understand that he could throw a million temptations at Jesus of Nazareth -- who is fully God and fully sinless man (without a sin nature) -- and they would be meaningless. So the Tempter and the temptations were real, but the One who was being tempted was immune. Yet the Bible does say Christ suffered while being tempted -- probably suffered the indignity of a vile creature trying to tempt the Creator (who could have cast him into Hell at the very moment).

Also Christians having the indwelling Holy Spirit can resist all temptations. That is what the Bible says:There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it. (1 Cor 10:13)

 

[Pearl]

Sounds like “I am JUST joking! Jeez”

? ? ?

 

[Phoneman777]

Hello, I’m new to posting here. I’m sorry if I’m in the wrong forum. My question is was David lying when he pretended to be insane in front of Abimelech? Psalm 34 is referring to this incident, but verse 14 seems to suggest he wasn’t lying. To me misleading and lying are the same. How do you reconcile this? Thank you

Hate to say it, but warfare is all about utilizing deception, exploiting the weakness of the enemy, repelling attacking force with greater force, and of course, overwhelming the enemy with overwhelming force - all things that will have no place in the kingdom of heaven after time and eternity. David was after all in the face of hostile enemies, right?

We would do well to not get hung up on the actions of Biblical characters that do not exemplify the pure life of Jesus, but gain confidence in the validity of Scripture by their inclusion - so many other "holy books" bend over backwards to sanitize their heroes/gods but God puts them on full display so the unwavering truth that His "strength is made perfect in weakness" can be affirmed.

David also sought to slay Abigail's husband for disrespect. He also ate bread from the temple that was unlawful for him to eat. None of these occasions are justified in Scripture as "acceptable" in God's sight (Jesus recounted David's sin to the Pharisees not to justify David's actions, but to expose the Pharisees' hypocrisy for refusing to condemn David for sinning against the temple, but for anxiously chomping at the bit to condemn "One greater than the temple...Who knew no sin.")

 

[Phoneman777]

So what? I find it odd that David writes a psalm about his faking being crazy and in that psalm says not to lie. And before anyone says it’s not lying let me use an example. I ask my child “did you clean your room” and they didn’t, but they give me a thumbs up. We would all call that a lie. Deceiving is a lie. I would appreciate a biblical explaination of when it is ok to lie. Or am I to take this story with David as the proof?

Good question. David did lie. He bore "false witness". Lying includes any form of communication that transmits untrue testimony of facts or circumstances.

David was clearly lying and it does seem hypocritical of him to write such things. Perhaps by the time of his writing, he had since recognized his weak faith while on the run and had since repented? After all, in his Psalm 51 prayer of repentance for his fall with Bathsheba and her husband, one of the reasons he pleads for God to grant forgiveness is so that afterward "...I will teach transgressors Thy ways..." If there's one thing David is not, it is a hypocrite.

 

[aspen]

? ? ?

Sound like When people add a qualifier like “I am just joking” onto the end of an insult....

Nevermind

 

[David kilmer]

I don't exactly know what you are asking.

Stranger

What I mean is it could live on and produce fruitfulness and also

 

[David kilmer]

The Bible is surprisingly relaxed about lying, under certain circumstances.

None of the commandments says, "Thou shalt not tell lies." The ninth commandment does say, "Do not give false testimony" - but this isn't quite the same thing.

Lying and deception are permissible in war, or in order to save life. God gives Samuel a 'cover story' about the purpose of his visit to Bethlehem (I Samuel 16:2), so that he can get there safely and carry out his mission. And even Jesus gives His brothers false information (John 7:8-10), so that He can travel to Jerusalem without everyone knowing His plans. So I can't see a problem with David pretending to be mad in order to save his own life.

 

[farouk]

The Bible is surprisingly relaxed about lying, under certain circumstances.

None of the commandments says, "Thou shalt not tell lies." The ninth commandment does say, "Do not give false testimony" - but this isn't quite the same thing.

Lying and deception are permissible in war, or in order to save life. God gives Samuel a 'cover story' about the purpose of his visit to Bethlehem (I Samuel 16:2), so that he can get there safely and carry out his mission. And even Jesus gives His brothers false information (John 7:8-10), so that He can travel to Jerusalem without everyone knowing His plans. So I can't see a problem with David pretending to be mad in order to save his own life.

Doesn't bearing false witness mean lying?

 

[Deborah_]

Doesn't bearing false witness mean lying?

It means distorting or withholding the truth from those who have a right to know (the judge/jury) in order to make a correct judgement. False witness could be a murder weapon if the crime was a capital offence.

False witness is a form of lying, but not all lying is 'false witness'. In certain situations (e.g. hiding Jews from the Nazis during the Holocaust) lying could be a good thing, a means of saving lives. Using deception in warfare can be a way of reducing casualties; it is certainly something that God permits.

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

Doesn't bearing false witness mean lying?

Not lying in general. The Israelite midwives lied to Pharaoh in order to protect the baby boys of the Israelites--and were commended. Bearing false witness is to accuse someone of something they didn't do. Such as was done against Jesus.

 

[FHII]

This is an interesting story and I will have trouble keeping it short. Was David lying? I say he deceived. Is that lying?

Well, if a prophet of God entered a city with the intent to pick a new King of the nation (when there already was a sitting King), what would happen to him? He would be arrested and most likely killed.

Now, what if that prophet entered the city with intent to pick a new King, but told everyone He was just in town to offer a sacrifice (and does, but secretly he has other motives)? Is that a lie?

What if God himself (not an angel, but God himself) told that prophet to do it that way? Would God be a co-conspirator?

That's exactly what happened. The prophet was Samuel. God was God. The king was Saul and the newly annointed to-be king was David.

God told Samuel to go and anoint a new King. Samuel was afraid he would be killed. Then God himself said, "Just say you are hear to give an offering! Then I will show you who to anoint!".

Offering a heifer wasn't the truth of why he was there. He did, but it wasn't the real reason. You can read that account in 1 Sam 16. It was a covert operation, and if David faking madness is a lie, this is too.

Now, when you go to 1 Sam 16, pay attention to the first verse. By this time God had totally rejected Saul and was upset that Samuel was still mourning over it.

When David feigned madness it was to escape Saul, whom God rejected. Keep in mind that David had plenty of opportunities to kill Saul. He didn't because he was still God's anointed (in a past tense being).

People have already brought up Rehab and Moses and is parents. Did anyone bring up Samson? He was told not to tell the truth, and got in a world of trouble when he did. Not many want to bring up that God himself sent lying spirits and strong delusions.

Saul was an enemy of God. Or at best, be was rejected. He wasn't "a neighbor".

So David lied to an enemy of God. God held one thing against David (maybe two if you include he was a war-time king and could not be commissioned to build the Temple). But him feigning madness was not held against him.

 

[FHII]

There are other funny or weird incidences about this story. It, by the way is in 1 Sam 21.

For one, David was given Goliath's sword, because he went out without any men or his own weapons. Anyone know about that sword? It weighed 15 lbs and was meant for a man nearly 10 feet tall. A "big" sword in that day was less than 5 lbs. David was not a big man (he was called "Ruddy")...

So how'd no one notice a little guy like David lugging around that 15 lbs and famous sword? Where did he hid it?

He was given bread that could only be given to a man who has "kept himself from women". David's answer was funny: "women have been kept from us (David was alone) 3 days!"

Ok... So after 3 days you can say...

 

[FHII]

Another odd thing... David lied. Broke one of the 10 Commandments. Ok. What about Jonathan ( one of my favorite lesser known characters in the Bible). He didn't honor his Dad, Saul. Did he? This was in Chapter 20 when he warned David of his dad's intentions.

 

[Pearl]

Another odd thing... David lied. Broke one of the 10 Commandments. Ok. What about Jonathan ( one of my favorite lesser known characters in the Bible). He didn't honor his Dad, Saul. Did he? This was in Chapter 20 when he warned David of his dad's intentions.

What translations says thou shall not lie? I've been comparing a few different ones and they say don't lie about your neighbour or don't bear false witness but so far I haven't found one that says don't lie. Abraham lied about Sarah not being his wife.

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

What translations says thou shall not lie? I've been comparing a few different ones and they say don't lie about your neighbour or don't bear false witness but so far I haven't found one that says don't lie. Abraham lied about Sarah not being his wife.

Colossians 3:9 says, "Don't lie to each other..." but that is presumably within the community of Christ. In general, Christians should be known for their integrity and that means not lying--especially when the lie helps one to take advantage of another. That was the same teaching in ancient Israel when the Israelites were told to use honest weights and measures (Deuteronomy 25:15; Leviticus 19:36). But, when lives are at stake, it seems permissible to lie to save them.