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Featured Was David lying?

Discussion in 'Christian Theology Forum' started by Mikeshrews, May 27, 2019.

  1. Mikeshrews

    Mikeshrews New Member

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    Hello, I’m new to posting here. I’m sorry if I’m in the wrong forum. My question is was David lying when he pretended to be insane in front of Abimelech? Psalm 34 is referring to this incident, but verse 14 seems to suggest he wasn’t lying. To me misleading and lying are the same. How do you reconcile this? Thank you
     
  2. David kilmer

    David kilmer Active Member

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    Maybe he wasn't
    Things often happen to cause this.
     
  3. Pearl

    Pearl Well-Known Member

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    It says he was pretending. Is that the same as lying?
     
  4. David kilmer

    David kilmer Active Member

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    No as neither was the serpent in the garden lying when he said maybe they'll be as gods knowing good and evil. The serpents of God show the opposite of things, good and evil. Everyone knows opposites.
     
  5. farouk

    farouk Well-Known Member

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    He was scared.

    The underlying question is really about the role of faith in assurance and confidence.
     
  6. farouk

    farouk Well-Known Member

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  7. Mikeshrews

    Mikeshrews New Member

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    I guess the difficulty I have is, saying “i’m Crazy” is clearly a lie, but deliberately making someon think you’re crazy isn’t. They are both deception
     
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  8. farouk

    farouk Well-Known Member

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    Are tactical measures on a sports field, designed to keep the opposing team guessing, a culpable form of deception? Are measures by soldiers in uniform designed to confuse the enemy in war immoral? Are clandestine measures over international borders - such as were common in the Cold War - designed to minimize surprises and to have a clearer idea of the intentions of the adversary, inherently immoral?

    I think it needs to be acknowledged that there are always going to be grey areas...
     
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  9. Stranger

    Stranger Well-Known Member

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    David lied to save his life. So what? Why do I need to reconcile it?

    Stranger
     
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  10. Mikeshrews

    Mikeshrews New Member

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    So what? I find it odd that David writes a psalm about his faking being crazy and in that psalm says not to lie. And before anyone says it’s not lying let me use an example. I ask my child “did you clean your room” and they didn’t, but they give me a thumbs up. We would all call that a lie. Deceiving is a lie. I would appreciate a biblical explaination of when it is ok to lie. Or am I to take this story with David as the proof?
     
  11. Mikeshrews

    Mikeshrews New Member

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    I must say I was hoping to get biblical based and backed answers on this forum. Not complaining, that’s just what I need to accept an answer in my own mind. Thank you all though, some of what was said helped me think deeper on this
     
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  12. Stranger

    Stranger Well-Known Member

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    Yes, you can take this story of David as proof. As well as the story of Rahab the harlot. (Josh. 2:1-6)

    Stranger
     
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  13. farouk

    farouk Well-Known Member

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    Maybe one could look at the episode as one of David's trials of faith.

    Psalm 51 is of course all about his repentance from another trial of faith / deep lapse.
     
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  14. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    As you said. David was pretending, and pretending is not necessarily lying. Sometimes even the best of people put on a brave face, even though they are torn internally or in great anguish. So David did pretend to be crazy and thus escaped his own demise.
     
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  15. Nancy

    Nancy Well-Known Member

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    Hi Mike, and welcome to the Forum. There are many who are not on here much today. I bet by tomorrow, or later tonight you will have many replies, it is a very valid and interesting question! ♥
    In His Name,
    nancy
     
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  16. Nancy

    Nancy Well-Known Member

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    Ah, good comparison..
     
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  17. ScottA

    ScottA Well-Known Member

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    That would be like saying that killing is the same as murder. But, no, in that context David would have simply been being wiser than the serpent.

    But I would suggest you do a word study of the original language, wherein the psalm would instead read:

    "A Psalm of David, when he changed his behaviour before Abimelech (meaning "Father King", or "Father of the King"); who drove him away, and he departed.
    I will bless the LORD at all times: his praise shall continually be in my mouth...
    "​

    Whether or not Abimelech was even a real person, doesn't even matter... Upon reading the psalm, there is more reason to believe that David was referring to God and confessing his own repentance.
     
  18. Butterfly

    Butterfly Well-Known Member

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    Hi Mike, welcome to the forum.
    I have often wondered about the issue of ' lying ' myself. I have only just found your post and now have to go to work - I will have to look at the story of David again, and the psalm on the bus and reflect on it - I hope more people do contribute to the thread as it is an interesting thing to consider.
    I will have to catch up later X
    Rita
     
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  19. David kilmer

    David kilmer Active Member

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    What about likes and programming? What exactly happened? Why'd my father turn me over? Doug batchellor was right and is good talent really to be killed?
     
  20. David kilmer

    David kilmer Active Member

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    What about anyone?
     
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