Was Esau foreordained to be hated by God?

[Reggie Belafonte]

I never claimed Israel was a place or a race. Paul is pointing out that Israel stopped serving God, and started serving themselves instead. He also pointed out that he would die himself to save Israel, but in the end Israel will be saved. You can read all about it in his letter to the Romans.

Yes but not all of Israel is in fact Israel and we see that in the end only so many have that right to be called a true Israelite, as Jesus says to Nathaniel and the fact that all who are truly Israel never abandoned God at all, the majority of Jews did but not all.

 

[shnarkle]

Yes but not all of Israel is in fact Israel and we see that in the end only so many have that right to be called a true Israelite, as Jesus says to Nathaniel and the fact that all who are truly Israel never abandoned God at all, the majority of Jews did but not all.

Look at the context. There's no point in Paul talking about how spiritual Israel has rejected God when the gentiles were just starting to enter into the fold. He's clearly talking about national Israel being saved. We're all aware of Paul's distinction between physical and spiritual Israel, but when Paul says, "all Israel will be saved", he's clearly not talking about spiritual Israel. Not one will be lost from Spiritual Israel; that's a Given.

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

Look at the context. There's no point in Paul talking about how spiritual Israel has rejected God when the gentiles were just starting to enter into the fold. He's clearly talking about national Israel being saved. We're all aware of Paul's distinction between physical and spiritual Israel, but when Paul says, "all Israel will be saved", he's clearly not talking about spiritual Israel. Not one will be lost from Spiritual Israel; that's a Given.

There is no such person that is not Israel and not of the Holy Spirit.

There is no Nation of State Israel and the true devout Jews who live in the State called Israel say that this is a fact, they wish it was tho, but they say it has not come and the reason why is because they have rejected Jesus Christ, but when they come to Christ Jesus and get born again then they will be an Israel = servant of God and at the second coming all will be Israel = servants of God, because Satan's powers will be burnt up and exposed for what it truly is.

The time of the Jews ended 2000 years ago, such people who did not come to the King of Israel Jesus Christ missed the boat. they were not worthy at all, because only a true Israelite would come to Christ Jesus, as Jesus said to his disciples to go out and seek the Israelites and if they reject you to turn and leave such a one directly and take no heed from such a one at all what so ever, because they are not servants of God = Israel truly at all in fact.

Any dedicated Jew nowadays or in the past, to the OT who truly respects Holy Moses can come to know Jesus Christ.
The biggest problem that the Jews of today have is the Talmud whore and the truly devout Jews know this is a fact and they claim that the Zionist do not represent them at all and have pointed this out many a time in demonstrations to let the world know that not all of the Jews nowadays are not the monsters, that the Zionist are or of the Talmud whore mob. but we do not see that in our media because the Talmud whore owns our media and the Christian churches have come under the power of the Talmud Whore.

Fact is that all of Israel will be saved because a servant of God is saved regardless.

How can one be Israel and not be spiritual Israel ? if one has not the Holy Spirit you are lost and not know God. one can not clam to be a servant of God and not know the Holy Spirit can they, no ! they are nothing without the Holy Spirit. who is it that guides them ? mans works ! give over.

How can a Nation be saved without the Holy Spirit ? it's not saved, no one is saved unless they are of the Holy Spirit. only a Satanist would peddle such a concept or fool would believe such a outright deception.

This rubbish about gentiles being Christians and the Jews being Jews is nonsense, all the true Jews became Christians in fact, who do you think Jesus was and all of the disciples were. their is no Jew or Greek in Christianity because that is passed, all are as one brotherhood end of story. because if a Christian sees anyone other than a Christian they are not truly a Christian at all. all are on home base in Christ and anyone who thinks otherwise must be a Anti-Christ because they do not have faith in Christ Jesus and must be looking to another for sure to be so daft.

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

That's why all the new age mob are under delusions about the second coming, it's because they are not truly born again, or they would know that the Kingdom is within your reach.
Once Truly Saved you are always saved, that means truly born again.
But we have people claiming nonsense born again dribble that is nothing to do with truly being born again in the Holy Spirit and the same goes for claims of once saved always saved, the works of such deceptions are out there running loose.
No one can save anyone but for Jesus Christ, now if one don't truly serve Christ Jesus one is not saved, so how can one be looking for another ?

 

[shnarkle]

Any dedicated Jew nowadays or in the past, to the OT who truly respects Holy Moses can come to know Jesus Christ.

So true! The sad fact is that it is those who think they've found Christ that are lost because they still can't hear what Moses and the prophets are saying. The glaring problem is that not even the resurrection is enough to persuade them to follow Christ's teachings.

29 They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.., If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead. Luke 16:29,31

The level of ignorance among most Christians is truly amazing! I have been attending Jewish services, bible studies, as well as learning much online from a number of Jewish websites, and I can tell you that the teachings of modern day Judaism are indistinguishable from their Christian counterparts. Jews understand that it is grace, through faith given by ha Shem that they await the glorious messianic kingdom that is to come.

They're waiting for the same messiah Christians are waiting for, and yet it is their Christian counterparts who sit in judgment because they're hung up on superficial labels. Christ had the same problem with his own disciples when they stopped people from healing and casting out demons just because they didn't know who they were. Sad.

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

So true! The sad fact is that it is those who think they've found Christ that are lost because they still can't hear what Moses and the prophets are saying. The glaring problem is that not even the resurrection is enough to persuade them to follow Christ's teachings.




The level of ignorance among most Christians is truly amazing! I have been attending Jewish services, bible studies, as well as learning much online from a number of Jewish websites, and I can tell you that the teachings of modern day Judaism are indistinguishable from their Christian counterparts. Jews understand that it is grace, through faith given by ha Shem that they await the glorious messianic kingdom that is to come.

They're waiting for the same messiah Christians are waiting for, and yet it is their Christian counterparts who sit in judgment because they're hung up on superficial labels. Christ had the same problem with his own disciples when they stopped people from healing and casting out demons just because they didn't know who they were. Sad.

The Jews and Islam and the ones claiming to be Christians that Jesus points out that are at his left, are looking for a man that will claim to be the one but in fact this man will be the Devil himself. all of the world will bow to this man and people will idolise the moron just like all fools have done through history, Hitler and all the Communist and moronic dictators were idolised by poor fools.

The problem with people is that their nature is corrupted due to what's called Original Sin, it's a Stain on all and the only way to deal with such is that one must come to Jesus Christ or you have no hope to understand or deal with such.

The Jews and Islam have not Grace at all and they do not know Grace, only the born again know Grace.

Jesus Christ came and did the will of the Father and did all that is needed, their is nothing to add and if anyone is looking to add to his work they are fools.
The Second coming is about the Holy Spirit will be seen by all and they will abide, because Satan will be seen truly for what he is by all, but not until all are utterly destroyed by the Hellfire that comes before the second coming.

All people who desire the day of the Lord are morons for they don't know of what they speak, it will be much worse than WW2 as it will make Hitler's days look like nothing and the people who claim that Christians will be raptured up dribble are mislead by Satan, such sounds good to cowards who swallow such a deal. God makes no deals, Satan only makes deals. God makes no deals you do or you don't as there is not deals, why would God make a deal with anyone, as he is the Truth and the light end of story you follow or you don't, what did Jesus say that he wanted Servitude, you serve him or you don't, no one come to the Father but through his only begotten Son.
The Jews and Islam can't come in any other way at all, be it their so called messiah or the foolish so called Christians that Jesus pointed out about.

Where did Jesus make any deals, it was the Devil who was trying to do a deal with him in fact and Jesus said be gone !

 

[shnarkle]

The Jews and Islam have not Grace at all and they do not know Grace, only the born again know Grace.

Hellfire that comes before the second coming.

Which is something only those who are destined for hell need concern themselves with.

All people who desire the day of the Lord are morons for they don't know of what they speak, it will be much worse than WW2 as it will make Hitler's days look like nothing and the people who claim that Christians will be raptured up dribble are mislead by Satan, such sounds good to cowards who swallow such a deal. God makes no deals, Satan only makes deals. God makes no deals you do or you don't as there is not deals, why would God make a deal with anyone, as he is the Truth and the light end of story you follow or you don't, what did Jesus say that he wanted Servitude, you serve him or you don't, no one come to the Father but through his only begotten Son.

Therefore God's chosen have nothing to worry about on the Day of the Lord. For them the wrath of God is a warm and gentle breeze protecting them from the stone cold dead around them.

The Jews and Islam can't come in any other way at all, be it their so called messiah or the foolish so called Christians that Jesus pointed out about.

Where did Jesus make any deals,

it's called a "covenant", and it's just another name for a deal.

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

Which is something only those who are destined for hell need concern themselves with.



Therefore God's chosen have nothing to worry about on the Day of the Lord. For them the wrath of God is a warm and gentle breeze protecting them from the stone cold dead around them.



it's called a "covenant", and it's just another name for a deal.

1 That Hellfire is not Hell. it's a living hell. and that's what people who reject God do, as they make the world a living Hell for themselves and others because they are Carnal.

2 Gods Chosen can loose their life tho but not their Spirit you know, do not be afraid of the ? who kill the flesh it is said, but that who kill the Spirit in you. Just like they killed Jesus, but they could not kill the Holy Spirit, he was the Holy Spirit. no one can with the Holy Spirit not even Satan has that power as he does not have that.

3 Nonsense, that's not biblical.

4 A Covenant is not a Deal when it comes to do with God, you can't do any deals with God, God does no deals at all, how can you deal with God, you abide or you don't, Satan tried to do a deal and what did Jesus say ? Jesus just pointed him out for who the Devil was, a titch ! a nothing to Jesus at all, remember what the Devil was trying to do with Jesus, make deals with him. No deal was done as Jesus pointed him out for what the Devil was = a nothing to Jesus. so how do you think that you are going to cut a deal, no ! you abide or you don't.

When one is born again, then you know Jesus is the Christ end of story, their is no deal ! what am I going to do go up and say what's the deal bro ? I know who he is and all that I can do is abide because I know him and he knows me.
Now once I did not know him but knew of him but their was no deal, as who am I dealing with ? mans works nonsense !

When ever you hear the words deal the Devil is in the detail. I was a contractor you know, so I truly know what deals are.
How can you serve God with any deal he does not do deals, you abide or you don't.
Now when one comes to know Jesus personally what are you going to do, reject him ? how is that ? you can't reject him because you are his. I am not working for my Salvation, but if I was not born again then I maybe one working for such and that means I am doing a deal.

When the Day of the Lord comes the Saints come out bro, as they are not going to run and hide to try and save their own lives.

 

[shnarkle]

1 That Hellfire is not Hell. it's a living hell. and that's what people who reject God do, as they make the world a living Hell for themselves and others because they are Carnal./QUOTE]

I agree. The carnal life is one of continuous, torment.

2 Gods Chosen can loose their life tho but not their Spirit you know,[/QOUTE]

God's chosen do not lose life. They realize that everything was created by Christ and for Christ. Paul puts it this way: "not me, but Christ in me", or "Christ in you, your only hope of salvation". Paul, like anyone who sees the reality of Christ sees that his separate identity is an illusion; a deception. There can be no identity apart from Christ. Any and all separate identities are nothing but persistent delusions which must be cast off or they will quickly dissipate whenever or wherever Christ's presence is found.

do not be afraid of the ? who kill the flesh it is said, but that who kill the Spirit in you. Just like they killed Jesus,

Yeshuah means God's salvation, but God's salvation cannot be killed. Only the body can be killed and that is not God's salvation. God's salvation is found in, with, and through self sacrifice.

but they could not kill the Holy Spirit, he was the Holy Spirit. no one can with the Holy Spirit not even Satan has that power as he does not have that.

I would only clarify that God is not "a", or "the" Holy Spirit, but simply "Holy Spirit". "John baptized in water, but Christ baptizes in Holy Spirit". Christ is the medium, and there is no other, or as Paul puts it, Christ is the "mediator".

4 A Covenant is not a Deal when it comes to do with God, you can't do any deals with God, God does no deals at all, how can you deal with God, you abide or you don't,

That is the deal. God makes the deal, God makes the rules, and you can follow them or not. That's the deal. That is explicitly what the covenant points out.

Satan tried to do a deal and what did Jesus say ? Jesus just pointed him out for who the Devil was, a titch ! a nothing to Jesus at all, remember what the Devil was trying to do with Jesus, make deals with him. No deal was done as Jesus pointed him out for what the Devil was = a nothing to Jesus. so how do you think that you are going to cut a deal, no ! you abide or you don't.

Yep, that's the deal. Those are the parameters of the covenant/deal.

When one is born again, then you know Jesus is the Christ end of story, their is no deal ! what am I going to do go up and say what's the deal bro ? I know who he is and all that I can do is abide because I know him and he knows me.

So there's no deal between you and Christ? Got it.

When ever you hear the words deal the Devil is in the detail. I was a contractor you know, so I truly know what deals are.

So you now have no contractual obligations to do anything when it comes to God? Got it.

How can you serve God with any deal he does not do deals, you abide or you don't.

Seems like the deal to me, but if that's not the deal for you, then that's your deal.

Now when one comes to know Jesus personally what are you going to do, reject him ? how is that ? you can't reject him because you are his. I am not working for my Salvation, but if I was not born again then I maybe one working for such and that means I am doing a deal.

Seems like it's a deal under your terms rather than God's terms.

When the Day of the Lord comes the Saints come out bro, as they are not going to run and hide to try and save their own lives.

That would seem to me to be because of the deal we have with God, bro.

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

1 No it's clearly not.

2 No Christ is not the creator.

3 Nonsense Christ is the saviour end of story.

4 and 3 all are as one.

5 there is no deal, you can not make deals with God in fact.

6 and 7 your concept of deal is a worldly one sadly, deals are a works related thing.

8 I am not working for my salvation, it's a free gift, you pick it up or you don't their is no contract as I know him, one becomes a friend, do you have a contract with a friends, like Sheldon Cooper trying to pin others down with ego driven laws. you should remember that Christians are not under the Law but under Grace. if you think like that go join the Jews as they can't move beyond the Law and that's why they are lost and a curse to all.

9 and 10 God only deals with the world because of they who reject him, they reap what they sow and like in the flood God moved his hand.

11 No deal, but as one will or one will not, just because one claims to be a Christian means nothing, so when a gutless wonder comes to the test he will run because he does not know Christ Jesus, but the true to God will not have a choice because their is only one remember. you can not serve two masters.

 

[shnarkle]

the true to God will not have a choice because their is only one remember. you can not serve two masters.

There is only one what? Choice? Jesus points out that you cannot work for God and work for Mammon (the personification of money) He points out that those who have had the kingdom revealed to them will then rely upon the providence of God rather than whatever they used to have folded in their wallets.

The banking cartels have created a world of scarcity while God creates a world of abundance. Which one do you live in? Do you know where your next meal is coming from because you have money in the bank, or because you don't need money at all? You're not fooling anyone.

 

[GodsGrace]

Paul clearly points out that what is foreknown is predestined, and while one could point out that the texts show God asking questions as if in ignorance, rhetorical questions are pervasive throughout both the Old and New Testaments; the figure Erotesis is especially common.

So the claim that God simply knew what Esau would do beforehand doesn't make much sense especially when Paul then asks the rhetorical question: "Is there unrighteouness with God?" There is no need or point in asking this question if God's reason for hating Esau is due to his foreknowledge of Esaus's future evil deeds.

Furthermore it isn't just Esau, but all of his descendants that are hated as well.

Quote:
And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste Mal.1:3


It's ironic that most people don't see this as being fair to Esau, but the real problem isn't that it isn't fair to Esau, but that God's love is completely unwarranted to Jacob. All of Adam's descendants are under the same condemnation due to his rebellion. But God has chosen Jacob. God has decided to love Jacob, and favor him.

God told Rebekah that the elder would serve the younger. Is there any chance that Esau could have proven himself worthy of his father's blessing or birthright? Evidently Isaac may have thought so given that he was willing to give Esau blessing despite God's

Does the word "chance" really have any meaning when it comes to God's promises?

The REALLY worrisome part is that God taught us not to hate anyone.
Jesus made an important point of this.
He said GOD IS LOVE.
1 John 4:8

Either Jesus was telling us the truth and we need to reconcile this truth to the O.T.
OR
We can throw out the O.T. and the N.T.

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

There is only one what? Choice? Jesus points out that you cannot work for God and work for Mammon (the personification of money) He points out that those who have had the kingdom revealed to them will then rely upon the providence of God rather than whatever they used to have folded in their wallets.

The banking cartels have created a world of scarcity while God creates a world of abundance. Which one do you live in? Do you know where your next meal is coming from because you have money in the bank, or because you don't need money at all? You're not fooling anyone.

Oh two masters is it. is the Bible wrong on that point.

Nothing wrong with Banking as long as it abides in God.

 

[shnarkle]

Oh two masters is it. is the Bible wrong on that point.

Nothing wrong with Banking as long as it abides in God.

There's nothing wrong with banking if one has yet to become a follower of Christ. If you're going to bank with Christ, your money is no good with him. The world bank, the BIS, the IMF, the Fed, are all Satanic to the core. They are the antithesis of God's commandment to be honest in one's commercial exchange. It is blatant fraud. They even admit as much:
"When you or I write a check there must be sufficient funds in the account to cover the check, but when the Federal Reserve writes a check there is no bank deposit on which that is drawn. When the Federal Reserve writes a check it is creating money". "Putting It Simply" Boston Federal Reserve"

That's legalized fraud.


"for a man's life consisteth not in the abundance of the things which he possesseth...
Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat; neither for the body, what ye shall put on.23 The life is more than meat, and the body is more than raiment...O ye of little faith? 29 And seek not ye what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink, neither be ye of doubtful mind.30 For all these things do the nations of the world seek after: and your Father knoweth that ye have need of these things.31 But rather seek ye the kingdom of God; and all these things shall be added unto you.32 Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom.
33 Sell that ye have, and give alms; provide yourselves bags which wax not old, a treasure in the heavens that faileth not, where no thief approacheth, neither moth corrupteth....And they all with one consent began to make excuse...whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he CANNOT be my disciple." - Luke 12:15,22;28-33;14:18,33

Christians all think that because they have money in the bank, and food on the table, they must automatically have these things added from the kingdom. Yet, they can't help but admit they're still waiting for the kingdom to come. Christ points out that you will be given the kingdom, THEN have those added. Christianity is fine with just their money though as this is their treasure. Keep justifying yourself (Luke 16:15)

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Paul clearly points out that what is foreknown is predestined, and while one could point out that the texts show God asking questions as if in ignorance, rhetorical questions are pervasive throughout both the Old and New Testaments; the figure Erotesis is especially common.

So the claim that God simply knew what Esau would do beforehand doesn't make much sense especially when Paul then asks the rhetorical question: "Is there unrighteouness with God?" There is no need or point in asking this question if God's reason for hating Esau is due to his foreknowledge of Esaus's future evil deeds.

Furthermore it isn't just Esau, but all of his descendants that are hated as well.

Quote:
And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste Mal.1:3


It's ironic that most people don't see this as being fair to Esau, but the real problem isn't that it isn't fair to Esau, but that God's love is completely unwarranted to Jacob. All of Adam's descendants are under the same condemnation due to his rebellion. But God has chosen Jacob. God has decided to love Jacob, and favor him.

God told Rebekah that the elder would serve the younger. Is there any chance that Esau could have proven himself worthy of his father's blessing or birthright? Evidently Isaac may have thought so given that he was willing to give Esau blessing despite God's

Does the word "chance" really have any meaning when it comes to God's promises?

Jehovah proceeded to say to her [Rebekah]: ‘Two nations are in your belly, and two national groups will be separated from your inward parts; and the one national group will be stronger than the other national group, and the older [Esau] will serve the younger [Jacob].’” (Jehovah was able to read the genetic pattern of the unborn twins. He may have considered this when foreseeing the qualities that each of the boys would develop and foretelling the outcome. [Ps. 139:16] But there is no indication here that he fixed their eternal destinies or that he predetermined how each event in their lives would turn out.)

Also anyone who says God was being unfair to Esau they most certainly haven't read the scriptures that show that Esau hated the spiritual things of God. He married women that not only his parents didn't approve of but neither did Jehovah God. Esau even hated the birthright so much he sold it for a bowl of stew. No, Esau wasn't treated unfair.

 

[Paul Christensen]

Paul clearly points out that what is foreknown is predestined, and while one could point out that the texts show God asking questions as if in ignorance, rhetorical questions are pervasive throughout both the Old and New Testaments; the figure Erotesis is especially common.

So the claim that God simply knew what Esau would do beforehand doesn't make much sense especially when Paul then asks the rhetorical question: "Is there unrighteouness with God?" There is no need or point in asking this question if God's reason for hating Esau is due to his foreknowledge of Esaus's future evil deeds.

Furthermore it isn't just Esau, but all of his descendants that are hated as well.

Quote:
And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste Mal.1:3


It's ironic that most people don't see this as being fair to Esau, but the real problem isn't that it isn't fair to Esau, but that God's love is completely unwarranted to Jacob. All of Adam's descendants are under the same condemnation due to his rebellion. But God has chosen Jacob. God has decided to love Jacob, and favor him.

God told Rebekah that the elder would serve the younger. Is there any chance that Esau could have proven himself worthy of his father's blessing or birthright? Evidently Isaac may have thought so given that he was willing to give Esau blessing despite God's

Does the word "chance" really have any meaning when it comes to God's promises?

Malachi 1:3 does not refer to Esau as the person. God loved Esau and desired to have him maintain his faith in Him.

It refers to the division between the line of Esau and the line of Jacob. One generation line was moving away from the line of succession that resulted in Jesus Christ, and the other was tracing the genealogical line to David and on to Jesus.

Therefore it is incorrect to say that God hates one individual person and loves another, and therefore predestined the one to hell and the other to salvation. If Calvinists are quoting Malachi 1:3 to support their view of predestination, then they are basing their doctrine on a misquote of Scripture.

 

[Getitright]

Paul clearly points out that what is foreknown is predestined, and while one could point out that the texts show God asking questions as if in ignorance, rhetorical questions are pervasive throughout both the Old and New Testaments; the figure Erotesis is especially common.

So the claim that God simply knew what Esau would do beforehand doesn't make much sense especially when Paul then asks the rhetorical question: "Is there unrighteouness with God?" There is no need or point in asking this question if God's reason for hating Esau is due to his foreknowledge of Esaus's future evil deeds.

Furthermore it isn't just Esau, but all of his descendants that are hated as well.

Quote:
And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste Mal.1:3


It's ironic that most people don't see this as being fair to Esau, but the real problem isn't that it isn't fair to Esau, but that God's love is completely unwarranted to Jacob. All of Adam's descendants are under the same condemnation due to his rebellion. But God has chosen Jacob. God has decided to love Jacob, and favor him.

God told Rebekah that the elder would serve the younger. Is there any chance that Esau could have proven himself worthy of his father's blessing or birthright? Evidently Isaac may have thought so given that he was willing to give Esau blessing despite God's

Does the word "chance" really have any meaning when it comes to God's promises?

In context the passage is talking about God fulfilling His promises to Abraham. I don't think that God simply decided that He would hate Esau at birth. God didn't choose him to be the vessel through which He would fulfill those promises, He chose Jacob for that purpose. Some of the reasons that God hated Esau can be found in the book of Obadiah.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

God created evil did he not? He created you did he not?

God didn't create evil.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Says who?
You should change your user name to BARNEY not the BRIGHTest
light bulb in the box.

Nothing evil comes from God. God created his intelligent creatures with free will but he didn't give free will for it to be abused as the Angel who became Satan and as Adam and Eve abused their free will. God warned Adam not to eat of the forbidden fruit, so obviously God didn't want Adam to bring death into the world of mankind by Adam being disobedient.

 

[Episkopos]

Esau represents the old sin nature. Jacob represents the part of us that can be redeemed. When our inner Jacob connects with God through Christ we become Israel but also as our inner Esau is crucified with Christ.