Was Jesus Eternally Tormented?

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The Learner

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Malachi 3
Easy-to-Read Version
3 The Lord All-Powerful says, “I am sending my messenger to prepare the way for me. Then suddenly, the Lord you are looking for will come to his temple.[a] Yes, the messenger you are waiting for, the one who will tell about my agreement, is really coming!

2 “No one can prepare for that time or stand against him when he comes. He will be like a burning fire. He will be like the strong soap people use to make things clean. 3 He will make the Levites clean. He will make them pure, like silver is made pure with fire! He will make them pure like gold and silver. Then they will bring gifts to the Lord, and they will do things the right way. 4 Then the Lord will accept the gifts from Judah and Jerusalem. It will be as it was in the past—as the time long ago. 5 Then I will bring you to justice. I will be an expert witness and testify about the evil things people do. I will speak out against those who do evil magic or commit adultery. I will speak out against those who make false promises and cheat their workers and don’t pay them the money they promised. I will testify against those who don’t help strangers, or widows and orphans. And I will testify against those who don’t respect me.” This is what the Lord All-Powerful said.

Stealing From God
6 “I am the Lord, and I don’t change. You are Jacob’s children, and you have not been completely destroyed. 7 But you never obeyed my laws. Even your ancestors stopped following me. Come back to me, and I will come back to you.” This is what the Lord All-Powerful said.

“You say, ‘How can we come back?’

8 “People should not steal things from God, but you stole things from me.

“You say, ‘What did we steal from you?’

“You should have given me one-tenth of your things. You should have given me special gifts. 9 In this way your whole nation has stolen things from me, so bad things are happening to you.”

10 The Lord All-Powerful says, “Try this test. Bring one-tenth of your things to me. Put them in the treasury. Bring food to my house. Test me! If you do these things, I will surely bless you. Good things will come to you like rain falling from the sky. You will have more than enough of everything. 11 I will not let pests destroy your crops. All your grapevines will produce grapes.” This is what the Lord All-Powerful said.

12 “People from other nations will be good to you. You will have a wonderful country.” This is what the Lord All-Powerful said.

The Special Time of Judgment
13 The Lord says, “You said cruel things to me.”

But you ask, “What did we say about you?”

14 You said, “It is useless to worship God. We did what the Lord All-Powerful told us, but we didn’t gain anything. We cried like people at a funeral to show we were sorry for our sins, but it didn’t help. 15 We think proud people are happy. Evil people succeed. They do evil things to test God’s patience, and God does not punish them.”

16 Then the Lord’s followers spoke with each other, and the Lord listened to them. There is a book in front of him. In that book are the names of his followers. They are the people who honor the Lord’s name.

17 The Lord said, “They belong to me. I will be kind to them. Parents are very kind to their children who obey them. In the same way I will be kind to my followers. 18 You people will come back to me, and you will learn the difference between good and evil. You will learn the difference between someone who follows God and someone who does not.
 

Jack

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You are misunderstanding the time after that of the event of Jesus' physical and glorious return in immortality. "Time will be no more". There will be no more "day and night" in eternity. The book of Revelation is not only symbolic and coded, it is also somewhat parabolic.
Rev. 1
[1] The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
[2] Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.

Luke 8
[10] And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand
Your opinions do not overrule what God said.

Matthew 25
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
Revelation 20
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
 
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face2face

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If the wages of sin is death...
and "death" = "eternal torment"...
what would Jesus have to do to take our place and pay our penalty for sin?

That's right...Jesus would have to be eternally tormented. Is He presently suffering eternal torment?

No, He didn't suffer "eternal torment" - He suffered death...which is exactly what Scripture says is the wages of sin.

And because the Father knew He was not guilty of sin, He was able to raise Jesus up after Jesus suffered death, unlike the impenitent wicked who deserve the death they will die which is the Second Death, an eternal death, a death from which there will be no resurrection.
Correct - plain and simple - the infection started at the time of Paul and no one has found a cure for the deceived Christian.
In other threads I have Christian can you believe saying Jesus didn't actually die.
Brain numbing stuff!
 

Earburner

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If the wages of sin is death...
and "death" = "eternal torment"...
what would Jesus have to do to take our place and pay our penalty for sin?

That's right...Jesus would have to be eternally tormented. Is He presently suffering eternal torment?

No, He didn't suffer "eternal torment" - He suffered death...which is exactly what Scripture says is the wages of sin.*in NJ h f on bn bn c x..m kmdads j b HD

And because the Father knew He was not guilty of sin, He was able to raise Jesus up after Jesus suffered death, unlike the impenitent wicked who deserve thh 5b lgdxxmjnm hjj hub*j ggbe *ii in h e death they will die which is the Second Death, an eternal death, a death from which there will be no resurrection.

Your opinions do not overrule what God said.

Matthew 25
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
Revelation 20
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
There is only one source of everlasting fire.

Heb. 12
[29] For our God is a consuming fire.

2 Thes. 1
[7] And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
[8] In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
[9] Who shall be punishED with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

[10] When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

Luke 17
[28] Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
[29] But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
[30] Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.
 
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Jack

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There is only one source of everlasting fire.

Heb. 12
[29] For our God is a consuming fire.

2 Thes. 1
[7] And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
[8] In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
[9] Who shall be punishED with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

[10] When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

Luke 17
[28] Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
[29] But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
[30] Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.
I'm sorry that you don't believe in "eternal" life. It's the EXACT same Greek word for "eternal" punishment, NEVER ending.
 
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face2face

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I'm sorry that you don't believe in "eternal" life. It's the EXACT same Greek word for "eternal" punishment, NEVER ending.
If you are in the grave forever the punishment is eternal - right J? We know what you want you just dont have a god to make it happen!
 

Jack

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There is only one source of everlasting fire.

Heb. 12
[29] For our God is a consuming fire.

2 Thes. 1
[7] And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
[8] In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
[9] Who shall be punishED with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

[10] When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

Luke 17
[28] Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
[29] But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
[30] Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.
I'm sorry that you don't believe in "eternal" life. It's the EXACT same Greek word for "eternal" punishment.
If you are in the grave forever the punishment is eternal - right J? We know what you want you just dont have a god to make it happen!
We? lol Why do you keep appointing yourself spokesman?
 
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face2face

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I'm sorry that you don't believe in "eternal" life. It's the EXACT same Greek word for "eternal" punishment.

We? lol Why do you keep appointing yourself spokesman?
Because many in this forum understand this truth - plenty of the room for all ;)
 

face2face

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I'm sorry that you don't believe in "eternal" life. It's the EXACT same Greek word for "eternal" punishment.

We? lol Why do you keep appointing yourself spokesman?
I don't see anyone debating "dust you are and dust you shall return" as being anything less than eternal...for those without faith and hope, that is! :)
 

L.A.M.B.

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Please clarify your OP, @Phoneman777 .

What do you mean by eternal torment?

Torment is set for those against God at the judgment.
 

face2face

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Totally evasive! "Eternal" life and "Eternal" punishment, NEVER ending. SAME Greek word.
True same word you say! Being in the grave eternally is Biblical you know right?

All (man and beast) go unto one place, all are of the dust. Ecc 3:19, 20; Job 34:15.

The choice is whether you want to stay there.
 

Jack

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True same word you say! Being in the grave eternally is Biblical you know right?

All (man and beast) go unto one place, all are of the dust. Ecc 3:19, 20; Job 34:15.

The choice is whether you want to stay there.
Totally evasive! Were you educated by Kingdom Hall?
 

Phoneman777

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Correct - plain and simple - the infection started at the time of Paul and no one has found a cure for the deceived Christian.
In other threads I have Christian can you believe saying Jesus didn't actually die.
Brain numbing stuff!
And when He does die, people still manage to get things wrong. I remember hearing what the late Archbishop Desmond Tutu said:

Tutu: "My dead friend, when we say Jesus Christ ascended into heaven, you don't believe that He got a kind of ecclesiastical lift that took Him into the stratosphere..."

Interviewer: "Why don't I believe that?"

Tutu: "...you already in your mind, if you are a thinking Christian, realize that this is language that is being used figuratively...when we speak about even the resurrection of Jesus Christ, it is not the revivacation of a corpse..."
 

Phoneman777

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2 Thes. 1
[7] And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
[8] In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
[9] Who shall be punishED with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
I appreciate you pointing out that the Bible says "punishED" with everlasting destruction and elsewhere it says eternal "punishMENT" - but it never speaks even once about eternal "punishING" as if it's ongoing and never stops.

Of course, the answer to the questions "what is the punishMENT; with what will they be punishED?"
It's death!
There is only one source of everlasting fire.

Heb. 12
[29] For our God is a consuming fire.
Amen...and is why the only time the Bible speaks of a time when people will "dwell with the devouring fire" and "dwell with everlasting burnings", it's referring to the righteous - because our God is a consuming fire! So, why won't we get burned? Same reason the Three Hebrew Worthies didn't get burned: you can't burn what's already on fire for Jesus!
 

Phoneman777

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Please clarify your OP, @Phoneman777 .

What do you mean by eternal torment?

Torment is set for those against God at the judgment.
As we all know, the Eternal Torment crowd teaches that the penalty for sin is death...and death = "eternal separation from God in tormenting flames of hellfire". A member of this crowd, Robert Derrick, confirmed this just a couple days ago.

So, if indeed the penalty for sin is death, and death is indeed "eternal separation from God in tormenting flames of hellfire", then what would Jesus have to do to take that punishment upon Himself, take our place in that place of torment, and pay our penalty for sin?

He would have to go to that eternal place of fiery torment and remain there for as long as we were condemned to remain there: for eternity...in torment...in the flames of hellfire. Is Jesus at this moment suffering a sentence of eternal torment for our sin? Then, the penalty for sin IS NOT eternal torment! It's exactly what the Bible says it is: death.
 
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