Was Jesus Heretical? - Why did they crucify Him?

[St. SteVen]

God cannot be heretical, it is illogical by definition.

The question is about the man Jesus living in the culture and religion of His time.

Definition of Heretical​

Heretical refers to beliefs or opinions that deviate from established or accepted norms, particularly in a religious context. It is often associated with ideas that challenge mainstream doctrines or practices.

Key Characteristics​

• Opposition to Official Beliefs: Heretical views are typically contrary to the official or popular opinion.
• Religious Context: In many religions, heretical beliefs are those that contradict core doctrines, leading to potential censure or excommunication.
• Historical Usage: The term has been used historically to label dissenting views within religious communities, often resulting in severe consequences for those labeled as heretics.

Synonyms​

• Unorthodox
• Dissident
• Radical
• Dissenting

 

[Lambano]

the common/catholic church.

For the Roman Catholic Church, that might be the Majesterium under the oversight of the Pope. We Methodists have our Book of Discipline that defines our doctrine.

 

[St. SteVen]

"Why did they crucify Him?"

1. Because He told them the truth - that He is God, that they are corrupted and fallen away and that they will be all judged and burnt, that the new age is coming, that the temple will be destroyed together with the city and that the worship will change.
2. And because He was influential and popular. They could not just ignore Him.

Also, because He did not keep the Sabbath and taught against some commands in the Law (cancelled "hate your enemy", cancelled divorce etc.). Whenever the Jewish establishment tried to rebuke/correct Him, He simply dismissed their authority over Him and predicted their quick end.

All that sounds heretical. (heterodox) Not according to the orthodox standard of the day.

 

[HealthyShape]

For the Roman Catholic Church, that might be the Majesterium under the oversight of the Pope. We Methodists have our Book of Discipline that defines our doctrine.

Common/catholic church means the mainstream of all Christians. It does not mean a specific church like the Roman Catholic Church.

 

[Lambano]

Its not "the chruch" that burned people........its Cults and particular groups of Heretics.

And who defines what's a "cult"?

 

[HealthyShape]

All that sounds heretical. (heterodox) Not according to the orthodox standard of the day.

Only if you believe that Jews of the 1st century were orthodox. They clearly were not, they did not understand their own religion and their own Scriptures.

 

[Lambano]

Common/catholic church means the mainstream of all Christians. It does not mean a specific church like the Roman Catholic Church.

Doesn't matter. Every denomination and every independent church has a body (sometimes a body of one) that determines what is Normative and is Heresy.

 

[HealthyShape]

The question is about the man Jesus living in the culture and religion of His time.

Definition of Heretical​

Heretical refers to beliefs or opinions that deviate from established or accepted norms, particularly in a religious context. It is often associated with ideas that challenge mainstream doctrines or practices.

Key Characteristics​

• Opposition to Official Beliefs: Heretical views are typically contrary to the official or popular opinion.
• Religious Context: In many religions, heretical beliefs are those that contradict core doctrines, leading to potential censure or excommunication.
• Historical Usage: The term has been used historically to label dissenting views within religious communities, often resulting in severe consequences for those labeled as heretics.

Synonyms​

• Unorthodox
• Dissident
• Radical
• Dissenting

Your definition does not apply to God. When God comes to Earth, the situation is different.

 

[HealthyShape]

Doesn't matter. Every denomination and every independent church has a body (sometimes a body of one) that determines what is Normative and is Heresy.

This fragmentation is not the point of this thread, I suppose. The question was whether Jesus was heretical and I suppose it means objectively heretical, not just subjectively in the eyes of some group that holds some beliefs.

Sure, many Jews will tell you even today that Jesus was heretical. But how does that matter? Jesus is the final authority, not them.

 

[Lambano]

objectively heretical

Your definition of "Objectively Heretical" can only be determined by God. As such, it is not a useful definition unless God Himself or an authorized prophet can speak to it.

 

[St. SteVen]

Only if you believe that Jews of the 1st century were orthodox. They clearly were not, they did not understand their own religion and their own Scriptures.

You are splitting hairs over common definitions.

 

[St. SteVen]

Sure, many Jews will tell you even today that Jesus was heretical.

That is all that I meant by the term.

 

[HealthyShape]

You are splitting hairs over common definitions.

No. It is actually quite important, not splitting hairs. It is a difference between being objectively heretical (impossible for God) or subjectively heretical in the eyes of some group.

I supposed you are asking if Jesus was objectively, technically heretical. If you are asking only whether the authorities of His time thought so, then it does not have much meaning, everybody knows that they did.

 

[HealthyShape]

Your definition of "Objectively Heretical" can only be determined by God. As such, it is not a useful definition unless God Himself or an authorized prophet can speak to it.

Exactly my point. Therefore, God cannot be heretical, impossible.

 

[Lambano]

Exactly my point. Therefore, God cannot be heretical, impossible.

Doesn't matter. It didn't keep Jesus from being executed as a heretic.

Like I said, "objective heretic" is not a useful term. Heresy is in the eye (and ear) of the beholder.

 

[St. SteVen]

No. It is actually quite important, not splitting hairs. It is a difference between being objectively heretical (impossible for God) or subjectively heretical in the eyes of some group.

I supposed you are asking if Jesus was objectively, technically heretical. If you are asking only whether the authorities of His time thought so, then it does not have much meaning, everybody knows that they did.

How is that not splitting hairs?

 

[Brakelite]

“But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets: ”
Acts 24:14 KJV

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What they call heresy.
What they call heresy.

As Paul believed and taught everything in scripture, it appears that the true heretics are those who accuse others of following scripture. History attests to this as true in many cases. For example, many were persecuted and accused of heresy during the dark ages because that actually had a bible that could be understood in the local language. The church authorized Latin only, and only priests could speak it. Today, it's heresy if you claim the holy Spirit to be your guide in understanding scripture having God Himself as the higher authority over the church.
Orthodox does not mean correct. As Lambano said, it basically means those who have the greater power.

 

[Button]

One of the accusations the Sadducees made against Jesus was that he was a blasphemer. So,given that I'd say they would be accusing him of heresy or being heretical.

I gotta ask this. Why do you post threads that challenge our faith to the point it seems more like questions that would come from a skeptic?

 

[St. SteVen]

I gotta ask this. Why do you post threads that challenge our faith to the point it seems more like questions that would come from a skeptic?

Skeptics ask the best questions. They are fearlessly honest.

 

[Button]

Skeptics ask the best questions. They are fearlessly honest.

You're a skeptic?