Was Jesus Heretical? - Why did they crucify Him?

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St. SteVen

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Follow-up to the Was Jesus Orthodox? (or Baptist) topic.

The previous thread examined the term 'orthodox".
This thread will focus on the term "heretical".

In the same way that something is not considered orthodox,
it may also be termed as heretical. Thus labeling the person targeted as a heretic.
Such as were burned by the Church at one time.

Was Jesus Heretical?

Arguments or comments from either side are welcome.

Perhaps we should begin by defining heretical?
 

Lambano

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Was Jesus Heretical?
In the other thread, I quoted a passage from the Talmud.

On the eve of Passover, Jesus the Nazarene was hanged ... because he practiced sorcery and instigated and seduced Israel to idolatry.

and

Jesus the Nazarene practiced magic and deceived and led Israel astray.

If "Jesus the Nazarene" refers to Christ (and there is some controversy about that), then yes, the Sanhedrin had Jesus crucified for heresy. (There were obviously some complex political reasons too.)

“We are not stoning you for any good work,” they replied, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.” - John 10:33

(Oops, we can't discuss that passage here.)
 
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MatthewG

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Hello Steven,

Why did they crucify Him?​

It seems that Jesus was a King that the Jewish people did not want. (Verse 18) They envied him, probably because he was Emmanuel (God with us), and wanted nothing to do with someone whom was righteous and holy; though by the flesh he was simply a man having temptations and things of that nature with-in his mind just like all of us. His Father by the Holy Spirit helped him, and the people even called Jesus a winebibber and a glutton because he would eat with sinners.

Of course maybe you see a different reason to suggest that he was "heretical"?
This also will be my only reply. All the best, steven, may the God of all comfort be with you.

Matthew 27: 11-26 - Jesus Before Pilate​


11 Now Jesus was standing before Pilate, the Roman governor. “Are you the king of the Jews?” the governor asked him.

Jesus replied, “You have said it.”

12 But when the leading priests and the elders made their accusations against him, Jesus remained silent. 13 “Don’t you hear all these charges they are bringing against you?” Pilate demanded. 14 But Jesus made no response to any of the charges, much to the governor’s surprise.

15 Now it was the governor’s custom each year during the Passover celebration to release one prisoner to the crowd—anyone they wanted. 16 This year there was a notorious prisoner, a man named Barabbas.[d] 17 As the crowds gathered before Pilate’s house that morning, he asked them, “Which one do you want me to release to you—Barabbas, or Jesus who is called the Messiah?” 18 (He knew very well that the religious leaders had arrested Jesus out of envy.)

19 Just then, as Pilate was sitting on the judgment seat, his wife sent him this message: “Leave that innocent man alone. I suffered through a terrible nightmare about him last night.”

20 Meanwhile, the leading priests and the elders persuaded the crowd to ask for Barabbas to be released and for Jesus to be put to death. 21 So the governor asked again, “Which of these two do you want me to release to you?”

The crowd shouted back, “Barabbas!”

22 Pilate responded, “Then what should I do with Jesus who is called the Messiah?”

They shouted back, “Crucify him!”

23 “Why?” Pilate demanded. “What crime has he committed?”

But the mob roared even louder, “Crucify him!”

24 Pilate saw that he wasn’t getting anywhere and that a riot was developing. So he sent for a bowl of water and washed his hands before the crowd, saying, “I am innocent of this man’s blood. The responsibility is yours!”

25 And all the people yelled back, “We will take responsibility for his death—we and our children!”[e]

26 So Pilate released Barabbas to them. He ordered Jesus flogged with a lead-tipped whip, then turned him over to the Roman soldiers to be crucified.​
 

Lambano

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Jesus was heretical to the corrupt Pharisees.

Jesus was not heretical to the will of god.
I think the Pharisees get a bad rap. They knew their Torah and dedicated their lives to keeping Torah and they truly thought they knew what God wanted - but because they thought they already knew it all, they weren't open to when God decided to do something unexpected.

And frankly, I have to wonder if we Christians wouldn't be the same way if Christ came today. Including me.
 

St. SteVen

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I think the Pharisees get a bad rap. They knew their Torah and dedicated their lives to keeping Torah and they truly thought they knew what God wanted - but because they thought they already knew it all, they weren't open to when God decided to do something unexpected.
Good points.
I suppose the issue was what fruit was manifested in their actions.
And frankly, I have to wonder if we Christians wouldn't be the same way if Christ came today. Including me.
If he didn't identify himself, many churches would probably toss him out.
And shake the dust off their sandals.

Matthew 10:14-15 NIV
If anyone will not welcome you or listen to your words,
leave that home or town and shake the dust off your feet.
15 Truly I tell you, it will be more bearable for Sodom and Gomorrah
on the day of judgment than for that town.
 

ScottA

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Follow-up to the Was Jesus Orthodox? (or Baptist) topic.

The previous thread examined the term 'orthodox".
This thread will focus on the term "heretical".

In the same way that something is not considered orthodox,
it may also be termed as heretical. Thus labeling the person targeted as a heretic.
Such as were burned by the Church at one time.

Was Jesus Heretical?

Arguments or comments from either side are welcome.

Perhaps we should begin by defining heretical?

All that is heretical is not of God. Orthodox either is or is not. Unfortunately, many who consider themselves as orthodox are actually heretics, rather than those they accuse, which continues even to this day.

So, No, Jesus was not a heretic, but those who crucified Him were.
 
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Jericho

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Jesus claimed to be the "I AM", literally God. A big no no. It would only be heretical if it wasn't true.
 
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St. SteVen

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Jesus claimed to be the "I AM", literally God. A big no no. It would only be heretical if it wasn't true.
Heretical to whom? To us now? No, not to Christianity.
But to the Judaic orthodoxy of his day? Yes, heretical. IMO

Truth has no bearing on what is orthodox or heretical.
That's my point on these two threads.
 

quietthinker

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Was Jesus Heretical? - Why did they crucify Him?​

I think he showed them up. They couldn't handle his purity. I also think the same thing happens today.....being in love with one's points of view has a greater draw than being in love with Jesus.

Mostly, there is disdain where there is a perceived rival.

That said, I'm persuaded they knew who he was......his history ie, birth, the encounter in the temple at age 12, the miracles, his laser sharp perception, his submission to their violence, the torn curtain, the frantic scramble to bribe the soldiers at the tomb and all that involved....

What amazes me is, they killed lambs in the temple area for millennia and yet they didn't or they chose not to make a connection.....and they still don't......the religious even have plans to reinstate the whole show.
 
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Earburner

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Follow-up to the Was Jesus Orthodox? (or Baptist) topic.

The previous thread examined the term 'orthodox".
This thread will focus on the term "heretical".

In the same way that something is not considered orthodox,
it may also be termed as heretical. Thus labeling the person targeted as a heretic.
Such as were burned by the Church at one time.

Was Jesus Heretical?

Arguments or comments from either side are welcome.

Perhaps we should begin by defining heretical?
Jesus was heretical to the Religions of the Jews, but never was He heretical by the scriptures!!

The same is being said against born again Christians today, who can't help but interpret the scriptures through "the mind of Christ that is within them".
1 Cor. 2:5, 16
 

St. SteVen

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Jesus was heretical to the Religions of the Jews, but never was He heretical by the scriptures!!
It's a good thing we are addressing "orthodox" and "heretical" in these topics.
As I anticipated, everyone is fearful of these terms. No need to be, from my perspective.

Wasn't Jesus position on the law "heretical by the scriptures"?
I see him deconstructing the law as he went. And it began with John the Baptist.
But in the Beatitudes, Jesus treats the law as hearsay. "You have heard that it was said..."

"For all the Prophets and the Law prophesied until John." - Matthew 11:13 NIV

Then what?
 
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MatthewG

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Hello @St. SteVen,

Have you ever taken time to look at the accounts of the transfiguration?

You have Moses and Elijah show up - which Jesus states that John the baptist was Elijah, and Moses was a representation of the Law. They both disappear after the the fullness of whom Jesus was shown to John, Peter, and James(I think). Jesus expressed he had come to fulfill the law, he was also known a prophet. Leaving Jesus all alone in the vision with the three that was there - which makes him the one we look to be made right with God.

He was the TORAH, by the flesh, just as well as the Word of God within flesh, whom was God, name Emmanuel which is God with us. The very Son of God, and also Son of Man born of Mary, from the bloodline of David.

He fulfilled those laws, He never once disobeyed a commandment. That is why he is deemed the only Begotten son, after resurrection, and also the one that people are to hear. Because when he died on the cross, the TORAH (what made known sin - was done away with) - was completed, and nailed to the cross.

The Christ within the flesh left him, and that is why he cried "My God My God, why have you forsaken me", taking on the penalty of sin - willingly - then going on to sheol, preaching there, from paradise to prison and raised three days, just as Johan was spit up by the whale.

Jesus was a madman in the flesh - when looked at by the people who disbelieved him, his very own jewish brothers who were also born under the law.

The works that the Father did in and through him, was deemed - as though he was Satan, or Beezlebub. (Jesus was prayed "Not my will be done, but yours.")(His Father also taught him what to say.)
 
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