Was Judas saved?

[Riven]

That's another interesting conversation that warrants its own thread.
Do we have free will or are we predestined.

Can you imagine living as a pious Christian, reading your bible, going to church, tithing, and then come to find out you're one of those "predestined" people?

 

[Armour of God]

Can you imagine living as a pious Christian, reading your bible, going to church, tithing, and then come to find out you're one of those "predestined" people?

It's an interesting topic and I have started a thread on it. Let's wait and see what people say. I think you'll find there will be differences of opinion

 

[Behold]

Do we have free will or are we predestined.

Are you going to decide what you will have to eat today, ???? and where you will go, ???? and what you will be doing every min of every hour of every day, for the rest of your life,????? while you are conscious and awake ????.

So, apparently you have free will.


Now the wrong question is......Does God predestine you to become a Christian, and you have no choice.........no free will to decide?

Well, the Hyper Calvinists will tell you that God caused you to believe and you had no choice.

My advice is to never become one of those, "election Obsessed nuts"..... as they are a NT denying CULT.

And how do you know? what is one simple proof?

= Its because Christians Lead you to Christ and a CALVINIST tries to lead you to CALVIN's Grace Rejecting Theology.

Now find a verse in a BIBLE that tells you to lead someone to Calvin and his Theology and then obsess on it and let it become your belief system.
However, because that verse does not exist in any Bible.....the correct answer is to avoid all Calvinists, and deny and reject all Hyper Calvinists and all so called "churches" that teach this incredible theological vomit.

 

[Armour of God]

Are you going to decide what you will have to eat today, ???? and where you will go, ???? and what you will be doing every min of every hour of every day, for the rest of your life,????? while you are conscious and awake ????.

So, apparently you have free will.


Now the wrong question is......Does God predestine you to become a Christian, and you have no choice.........no free will to decide?

Well, the Hyper Calvinists will tell you that God caused you to believe and you had no choice.

My advice is to never become one of those, "election Obsessed nuts"..... as they are a NT denying CULT.

And how do you know?

Its because Christians Lead you to Christ and a CALVINIST tries to lead you to CALVIN..

Now find a verse in a BIBLE that tells you to lead someone to Calvin and his Theology and then obsess on it and let it become your belief system., and if you do, then do that...
However, that verse does not exist in any Bible.........therefore avoid all Calvinists, and deny and reject all Hyper Calvinists and all so called "churches" that teach this incredible theological vomit.

Cool. Can you please post this on the thread I started about free will and predestination.
Much appreciated

 

[mailmandan]

What does scripture say about Judas Iscariot?

Judas was an unbeliever and is a devil.....John 6:64-71
Judas was spiritually unclean......John 13:11
Judas is lost and is the son of perdition.........John 17:12
Judas was not kept by Jesus........John 17:12; 18:9
Judas was a traitor.....Luke 6:16
Judas was a thief and did not care for the poor........John 12:6
Judas was guilty of a greater sin.......John 19:11
Judas was influenced by Satan to betray Jesus.......John 13:2
Judas was entered by Satan.......Luke 22:3
Judas kills himself......Matthew 27:5
Judas' habitation to be desolate......Acts 1:20, Psalm 69:25

 

[amigo de christo]

The Bible knows for sure if Judas ever repented and got saved. It could not be more clear. Judas had sorrow about betraying Jesus, but sorrow is not enough.

Scripture states “it had been good for that man if he had not been born” ~Matthew 26:24.

Jesus says, “Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?” ~John 6:70.

And again: “those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition” ~John 17:12.

Again . exactly my friend . he do call judas the son of perdtion . He even says HE is LOST .
Seeing JESUS said it , THIS SHEEP BELEIVES IT .
In fact we ought to beleive EVERYTHING HE EVER DID say .
TO include the fact that he made it darn sure to warn EVEN the jews
that if you BELEIVE NOT that I AM HE then you will DIE in your sins .
And when they even said BUT GOD IS OUR FATHER . SO yeah they did say GOD IS our FATHER .
But jesus said YE are of your father the devil .
SO my advice is we do not
heed this fat lie that also tries to imply that ALL RELIGOINS know and serve the same GOD we do .
cause that is OF anti christ , NOT CHRIST and thus NOT GOD .
JESUS did not go around trying to find common ground with darkness and those trapped in the darkness .
The world cannot hate you , b ut me it hates for i TESTIFY that its works are evil .
That too is why they hate HIS SHEEP . FOR by the SPIRIT , we had walked Contrary to this world
and not sought to lie and produce a fable of some kind of inclusive universalism .
NO we had PREACHED JESUS ,not fables . But many now just go around
trying to remove the severity of GOD by preaching a false goodness , a false love . AND it is not gonna save them .
By their love they call GOD A LIAR , HIS CHRIST a liar . As for this sheep
I shall POINT ONLY to CHRIST and all lovely words of the inspired TRUTH of THE LORD .
Cause anything contrary to that is VAIN , will sav e none and leads them only into greater and greater rebellion
AGAINST teh very ONE WHO COULD have saved them and against his sheep .

 

[Jay Ross]

Whether Judas was saved or not is really above our pay grade to determine.

 

[Armour of God]

What does scripture say about Judas Iscariot?

Judas was an unbeliever and is a devil.....John 6:64-71
Judas was spiritually unclean......John 13:11
Judas is lost and is the son of perdition.........John 17:12
Judas was not kept by Jesus........John 17:12; 18:9
Judas was a traitor.....Luke 6:16
Judas was a thief and did not care for the poor........John 12:6
Judas was guilty of a greater sin.......John 19:11
Judas was influenced by Satan to betray Jesus.......John 13:2
Judas was entered by Satan.......Luke 22:3
Judas kills himself......Matthew 27:5
Judas' habitation to be desolate......Acts 1:20, Psalm 69:25

You forgot the most important one of all

Judas shows remorse... Matthew 27:3

Remorse is only a step away from repentance. And we all know that if we repent, then we are forgiven. Just like Peter and Paul did.
The bible doesn't say if Judas repented or not. Most people are just assuming that he didn't repent, some arent even considering it. That's why I cannot be sure if he was saved or not unless someone can convince me that Judas didn't repent. No one has been able to do that, so the possibility that Judas did repent still remains

 

[mailmandan]

You forgot the most important one of all

Judas shows remorse... Matthew 27:3

Remorse is only a step away from repentance. And we all know that if we repent, then we are forgiven. Just like Peter and Paul did.
The bible doesn't say if Judas repented or not. Most people are just assuming that he didn't repent, some arent even considering it. That's why I cannot be sure if he was saved or not unless someone can convince me that Judas didn't repent. No one has been able to do that, so the possibility that Judas did repent still remains

While Matthew 27:3-5 says he felt "remorse" (Greek: metamelomai), returned the money, and confessed he betrayed innocent blood, there is no indication that he repented (metanoeo) and turned to God for forgiveness, instead falling into despair and committing suicide.

John 17:12 settles it for me - While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled. The Greek term apoleia (perdition/destruction) implies eternal loss or ruin.

 

[mailmandan]

Matthew 26:24 - The Son of Man is going away just as it is written about Him; but woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed! It would have been good for that man if he had not been born.'

 

[Armour of God]

While Matthew 27:3-5 says he felt "remorse" (Greek: metamelomai), returned the money, and confessed he betrayed innocent blood, there is no indication that he repented (metanoeo) and turned to God for forgiveness, instead falling into despair and committing suicide.

Your right, it doesn't say that he repented.
But it also doesn't say that he didn't repent either. So I cannot be sure either way. He may have repented but it just doesn't say it in the bible

Matthew 26:24 - The Son of Man is going away just as it is written about Him; but woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed! It would have been good for that man if he had not been born.'

Yes I quoted that verse in the op as an argument for no.
But unless someone can convince me that he didn't repent then I'm just sitting in the middle and saying I'm not sure.

 

[Lambano]

What does this say about freewill? Are some humans destined to be damned before they're even conceived?

I'm sorry; you must have wanted one of the Calvinism threads.

 

[Lambano]

Can you imagine living as a pious Christian, reading your bible, going to church, tithing, and then come to find out you're one of those "predestined" people?

I can well imagine it. But that's a different testimony...

 

[Taken]

Was Judas saved?

No.
Judas was a “Follower”…of Jesus for 3 years.
Judas was a “TASTER”…of Gods Word.

Rather than “Repent” and “Commit to Gods Word”…Judas chose a permanent solution, to his temporary problem….”Suicide”…making “Repentance and Submission” impossible.

Ecc. 9:
[5] For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

John 17:
[12] While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

Heb 6:
[4] For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
[5] And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
[6] If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.


Matt 26:
[26] And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Lambano]

While Matthew 27:3-5 says he felt "remorse" (Greek: metamelomai), returned the money, and confessed he betrayed innocent blood, there is no indication that he repented (metanoeo) and turned to God for forgiveness, instead falling into despair and committing suicide.

John 17:12 settles it for me - While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled. The Greek term apoleia (perdition/destruction) implies eternal loss or ruin.

"Metanoeo" literally means, "a change of mind". Did Judas change his mind about what he'd done? "I have betrayed innocent blood" sure sounds like he changed his mind.

I have to agree with you about John 17:12. Assuming the "Son of Destruction" ("Abaddon" is the Hebrew word translated "Apoleia" in the LXX and refers to a place where souls go after death; see Psalm 88:11 and also Acts 8:20, where Peter tells Simon Magus to take his silver and go to Hell) refers to Judas (and who else could it refer to?), Jesus is telling us that Judas was lost. Will the Good Shepherd seek out His lost sheep?

 

[mailmandan]

"Metanoeo" literally means, "a change of mind". Did Judas change his mind about what he'd done? "I have betrayed innocent blood" sure sounds like he changed his mind.

I have to agree with you about John 17:12. Assuming the "Son of Destruction" ("Abaddon" is the Hebrew word translated "Apoleia" in the LXX and refers to a place where souls go after death; see Psalm 88:11 and also Acts 8:20, where Peter tells Simon Magus to take his silver and go to Hell) refers to Judas (and who else could it refer to?), Jesus is telling us that Judas was lost. Will the Good Shepherd seek out His lost sheep?

We can change our mind about a lot of things but the new direction of that change of mind must be faith in Jesus Christ in order to be saved. (Acts 11:17,18; 20:21) Suicide is not the fruit of faith and conversion.

 

[mailmandan]

According to 2 Corinthians 7:10, there is a difference between two types of grief:

Godly Sorrow - A grief prompted by the Holy Spirit that recognizes sin as an offense against God and leads to a genuine change of mind and direction toward Christ.

Worldly Sorrow - A deep emotional remorse often focused on the consequences of sin or a sense of unresolvable guilt. It does not turn toward Christ in faith for mercy and ultimately produces death.

 

[Taken]

What does this say about freewill? Are some humans destined to be damned before they're even conceived?

It is like you having seen a whole movie, sitting next to another who (has not seen the movie) who is deciding what options they would choose, per the plot of story.

God already KNOWS what we will freely choose.

Nothing new (to Him).

It is men who Do Not know what they shall freely Chose… Until they Decide and Choose.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

@Lambano
@mailmandan

Remember…the Carnal Mind is designed to be LOGICAL, weighing options between this and that as to what “makes sense”, based on the knowledge you have, as to the best result/outcome.

True Belief, is outside that perimeter …
True Belief, is based on what…
A natural spirit of man believes.
A mans natural spirit, is the mans natural TRUTH in his heart.

You can absolutely know your own name…
Yet can “make-up”. A Nick-name, pseudo name, etc….. and own it, tell others, be called that, answer to that….Carnal Logical thinking…Yet know in you natural spirit in your heart… Your Truth.

A person may ask you, “How are you”…
And you say “Fine”, “Great”…
But in “Fact”, you may have just gotten terrible news about organ failure, your vehicle stolen, your house caught fire, you missed an important deadline, etc.
And … your are not FINE, but rather battling great concerns.

The Carnal Mind is Against God…
And Why, Gods (order and way) demands Belief from the Heart…to Become Made (soul) restored/ saved, and the spirit reborn.

And THERE After… they “in” Christ are Prepared…
To “start MAKING their own MIND, YEILD to its Hearts Thoughts.”
( which is what having a Mind like Christ means)…<—-> that part is ongoing for a man (converted) IN Christ.

IOW… Salvation given is about the hearts thoughts… not the Mind.

God bless you.

Glory to God
Taken

 

[Riven]

It is like you having seen a whole movie, sitting next to another who (has not seen the movie) who is deciding what options they would choose, per the plot of story.

God already KNOWS what we will freely choose.

Nothing new (to Him).

It is men who Do Not know what they shall freely Chose… Until they Decide and Choose.

Glory to God,
Taken

But when does God know this? Before we're born? If so, wouldn't that suggest God already knows who will be damned and who will be saved in advance?