Was Mary sinless?

[ChurchAuthority]

"ALL" Is qualified, "ALL" Means everyone.

Hmmmm, so aborted children have sinned?
infants have sinned?
How about the severly retarded who don't have full use of their faculties?

ALL of you Protestants are so willing to say that ALL have sinned but NONE of you have answered these questions since I first asked them pages ago.

CAN any of you answer them??

All of them

So, you're making the absurd claim the ALL Catholic doctrine is incorrect. That is an immature and ignorant statement.

There is not one Protestant sect, world religion, pseudo- Christian group or cult who has it ALL wrong.
When you're ready to have an intelligent and charitable discussion, let me know . . .

 

[Episkopos]

All denominations held themselves out as purveyors of absolute truth...Herein lies the error from the get go. Only Christ is the way the truth and the life.

Luther was way off base. We are not saved by our beliefs...

The RC's are way off base. We need Christ not a clergy!

 

[101G]

Romans 8:24 "For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for? 25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it".
now, what is, or may I say who is FAITH?, Hebrews 11:1 "Now faith is the substance of things "hoped" for, the evidence of things not seen.

 

[ChurchAuthority]

All denominations held themselves out as purveyors of absolute truth...Herein lies the error from the get go. Only Christ is the way the truth and the life.

Luther was way off base. We are not saved by our beliefs...

The RC's are way off base. We need Christ not a clergy!

So, you actually believe that the Catholic Church claims that we don't need christ?
Ignorance - sheer ignorance.

 

[Alanforchrist]

Hmmmm, so aborted children have sinned?
infants have sinned?
How about the severly retarded who don't have full use of their faculties?

ALL of you Protestants are so willing to say that ALL have sinned but NONE of you have answered these questions since I first asked them pages ago.

CAN any of you answer them??


So, you're making the absurd claim the ALL Catholic doctrine is incorrect. That is an immature and ignorant statement.

There is not one Protestant sect, world religion, pseudo- Christian group or cult who has it ALL wrong.
When you're ready to have an intelligent and charitable discussion, let me know . . .

We have been through this before, I have already gave you the answear.

Hmmmm, so aborted children have sinned?
infants have sinned?
How about the severly retarded who don't have full use of their faculties?

ALL of you Protestants are so willing to say that ALL have sinned but NONE of you have answered these questions since I first asked them pages ago.

CAN any of you answer them??


So, you're making the absurd claim the ALL Catholic doctrine is incorrect. That is an immature and ignorant statement.

There is not one Protestant sect, world religion, pseudo- Christian group or cult who has it ALL wrong.
When you're ready to have an intelligent and charitable discussion, let me know . . .

I know what the Bible teaches, And I know what the catholics teach, And I know they are not the same.
There are to many differences between the Biblical Church and the catholic church, For the catholics to be the true church.
Not one of the catholic doctrines are found in the Bible, The catholics try to make the Bible say what it doesn't say.

 

[ChurchAuthority]

We have been through this before, I have already gave you the answear.

You have answered those three questions?
Would you mide posting them again - or at least point me to the post?

 

[Alanforchrist]

I will answer your Purgatory question because that is the only one you appear to be willing to discuss (sort of). When you're ready to stop LOL-ing speak like a mature grown up, I will be more than happy to provide answers for ANY of your anti-Catholic charges.

Purgatory isn’t necessarily a place, but a state. According to the Catechism of the Catholic Church, it’s a “final purification of the elect” (1030-1032). Another misconception is that Purgatory is a “second chance”. This is not the case, as those Christians who die in a state of mortal sin are not eligible because mortal sin severs our relationship with God.

Since Revelation 21:27 tells us that nothing unclean can enter heaven, a final purification or purgation is necessary for some before entering heaven. Those in Purgatory will indeed make it into heaven. As the great Protestant author, C.S. Lewis once stated, “The mercy of God demands purgatory.”
Regardless of what some may say, the belief in Purgatory is scripturally-based. In 2 Macc. 42-46, we see that Judas Maccabeus prays for the men of his army, killed in battle. Verse 44 says, “… for if he were not expecting the fallen to rise again, it would have been useless and foolish to pray for them in death.” Matt. 5:25-26 tells us that unless we have settled our matters, we will be “handed over to the prison guard and will not be released until we have paid the last penny.”

We are told in 1 Cor. 3:12-15 that the day (judgment) will disclose the foundation that a person builds upon and how it will be revealed: “If the work stands that someone built upon the foundation, that person will receive a wage. But if someone's work is burned up, that one will suffer loss; the person will be saved, but only as through fire.”
Hmmm, let's see - this isn't talking about a person in Heaven because they are SUFFERING.
This isn't talkning about a person in Hell because it says that they WILL BE SAVED.
This is a THIRD state - so - what IS it?

Additionally, Matt. 12:32 states, “whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come”, which indicates that there is purification after death for some. Matt. 18:32-35 and Luke 12:58-59 are additional verses that support this doctrine.
All of these verses point to the fact that those in Purgatory will suffer loss but will eventually be released (purified, purged from iniquity, saved). Purgatory is for the believer who dies in God’s favor (without the stain of mortal sin) but is in need of final purification before entering heaven.

So, please enlighten me about the "falsehood" of Purgatory.

I take it you are joling??..AREN'T YOU?,
For get what the catechism says, Believe what the Bible says.
Forget what 2 Mac 42-46 says, It isn't inspired by God, It is one of the books that the catholics added.
As for Matt 5: 25--26, That is talking about this liftime, Not the after life..Can't you see how the catholics twist the scriptures?.

As for 1 Cor 3: 12--15.
[A] Paul is talking to Christians, Not catholics.
He is talking about works, Not sin.
[C]The meaning to, "Escape as by fire", Is like someone escaping from a burning house, He loses his house, But he himself isn't touched by fire.,, 1 Cor 3 : 12--15 is the bema seat, The place for rewards, Or the lack of them as the case might be.
Fire means to burn with shame for having no works. And just about getting into heaven.
It certainly isn't talking about purgatory.

As for Matt 12: 32, It simply means the person won't be forgiven EVER., It isn't talking about purgatory.

As we Christians, tell you, There is no purgatory in the Bible, catholics twist the scriptures, As you just have.

 

[ChurchAuthority]

We have been through this before, I have already gave you the answear.


I know what the Bible teaches, And I know what the catholics teach, And I know they are not the same.
There are to many differences between the Biblical Church and the catholic church, For the catholics to be the true church.
Not one of the catholic doctrines are found in the Bible, The catholics try to make the Bible say what it doesn't say.

Not ONE Catholic doctrine is found in the Bible??
What about Baptism?
What about The deity of Jesus Christ?
What about the Resurrection??
What about Jesus' sacrifice on the cross for our sins?

Don't make blanket statements that you cannot support. It only serves to expose your ignorance.

I take it you are joling??..AREN'T YOU?,
For get what the catechism says, Believe what the Bible says.
Forget what 2 Mac 42-46 says, It isn't inspired by God, It is one of the books that the catholics added.
As for Matt 5: 25--26, That is talking about this liftime, Not the after life..Can't you see how the catholics twist the scriptures?.

As for 1 Cor 3: 12--15.
[A] Paul is talking to Christians, Not catholics.
He is talking about works, Not sin.
[C]The meaning to, "Escape as by fire", Is like someone escaping from a burning house, He loses his house, But he himself isn't touched by fire.,, 1 Cor 3 : 12--15 is the bema seat, The place for rewards, Or the lack of them as the case might be.
Fire means to burn with shame for having no works. And just about getting into heaven.
It certainly isn't talking about purgatory.

As for Matt 12: 32, It simply means the person won't be forgiven EVER., It isn't talking about purgatory.

As we Christians, tell you, There is no purgatory in the Bible, catholics twist the scriptures, As you just have.

So much blatant and transparent error - it's difficult to know where to begin. Why don't we start with Matt. 12:32.

As I showed you, Jesus is taslking about how a person who sins against the Holy Spirit won't be forgiven in this life - OR the NEXT. This implies that in the next life there ARE some who will be forgiven and others who won't. If this were not the case, Jesys would have left out the entire part about the next life. He would have simply said, “whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven" - PERIOD.

As for 1 Cor. 3:12-15, Jesus is talking to Christians. Your ignorance keeps you from the fact that Catholics ARE Christians, but that is beside the point.
He is speaking of a state of existence that is not heaven because there is suffering.
It is not hell because the person WILL BE saved.
IT is speaking of a THIRD condition - one of a final PURGATION.

Time after time in the Old Testament, God is compared to the REFINER of precious metal and uses His FIRE to refine. Paul is using the exact same metaphor here that we see in verses like Daniel 11:35, Job 23:10, Malachi 3:2, Isaiah 10-11, Malachi 3:3, and Zechariah 13:9.

Finally, as to the Books of Maccabees and the other Deuterocanonical Books - you are about as DEAD WRONG as you could bere here. I don't really blame you though - it is how you've been indoctrinated by the various perverse traditions of Protestantism.
Let me give you a little Biblical and Historical lesson:

The Deuterocanonical Books were part of the Septuagint. The Septuagint was the Greek translation of the Old Testament from the Masoretic text, which was translated by 70 Hebrew Scholars, Hence, the name "Septuagint". It can be illustrated that Jesus and the NT writers ALL studied and learned from the Septuagint. There are over 100 direct quotes and references to the Deuterocanonical Books in the New Testament. The Catholic Church didn't "add" these Books later. They were ALWAYS recognized as Scripture.

Later, AFTER the death and resurrection of Christ, Jewish scholars rejected these Books because of their Hellenistic influence. During the Diaspora (dispersion), many Jews were being converted to Christianity because of the Septuagint and, in particular, the Deuterocanonical Books. These Books were included in the Canon that was originally declared by the Catholic Church at the Councils of Rome, Carthage and Hippo in the 4th century because they were ALWAYS considered to be inspired.

I really suggest you read up on the Early Church Fathers instead of listeniong to your anti-Catholic, Historically-challenged minister. That way, you'll get an honest, unadulterated version of history.

There ends the lesson for the day.

 

[Episkopos]

Not ONE Catholic doctrine is found in the Bible??
What about Baptism?
What about The deity of Jesus Christ?
What about the Resurrection??
What about Jesus' sacrifice on the cross for our sins?

Don't make blanket statements that you cannot support. It only serves to expose your ignorance.



So much blatant and transparent error - it's difficult to know where to begin. Why don't we start with Matt. 12:32.

As I showed you, Jesus is taslking about how a person who sins against the Holy Spirit won't be forgiven in this life - OR the NEXT. This implies that in the next life there ARE some who will be forgiven and others who won't. If this were not the case, Jesys would have left out the entire part about the next life. He would have simply said, “whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven" - PERIOD.

As for 1 Cor. 3:12-15, Jesus is talking to Christians. Your ignorance keeps you from the fact that Catholics ARE Christians, but that is beside the point.
He is speaking of a state of existence that is not heaven because there is suffering.
It is not hell because the person WILL BE saved.
IT is speaking of a THIRD condition - one of a final PURGATION.

Time after time in the Old Testament, God is compared to the REFINER of precious metal and uses His FIRE to refine. Paul is using the exact same metaphor here that we see in verses like Daniel 11:35, Job 23:10, Malachi 3:2, Isaiah 10-11, Malachi 3:3, and Zechariah 13:9.

Finally, as to the Books of Maccabees and the other Deuterocanonical Books - you are about as DEAD WRONG as you could bere here. I don't really blame you though - it is how you've been indoctrinated by the various perverse traditions of Protestantism.
Let me give you a little Biblical and Historical lesson:

The Deuterocanonical Books were part of the Septuagint. The Septuagint was the Greek translation of the Old Testament from the Masoretic text, which was translated by 70 Hebrew Scholars, Hence, the name "Septuagint". It can be illustrated that Jesus and the NT writers ALL studied and learned from the Septuagint. There are over 100 direct quotes and references to the Deuterocanonical Books in the New Testament. The Catholic Church didn't "add" these Books later. They were ALWAYS recognized as Scripture.

Later, AFTER the death and resurrection of Christ, Jewish scholars rejected these Books because of their Hellenistic influence. During the Diaspora (dispersion), many Jews were being converted to Christianity because of the Septuagint and, in particular, the Deuterocanonical Books. These Books were included in the Canon that was originally declared by the Catholic Church at the Councils of Rome, Carthage and Hippo in the 4th century because they were ALWAYS considered to be inspired.

I really suggest you read up on the Early Church Fathers instead of listeniong to your anti-Catholic, Historically-challenged minister. That way, you'll get an honest, unadulterated version of history.

There ends the lesson for the day.

Baptism is not a Catholic rite. It isn't even a rite! It is a command from the Lord for disciples to enter the fellowship through a symbolic death and resurrection in water in a full immersion.

Not ONE Catholic doctrine is found in the Bible??
What about Baptism?
What about The deity of Jesus Christ?
What about the Resurrection??
What about Jesus' sacrifice on the cross for our sins?

Don't make blanket statements that you cannot support. It only serves to expose your ignorance.



So much blatant and transparent error - it's difficult to know where to begin. Why don't we start with Matt. 12:32.

As I showed you, Jesus is taslking about how a person who sins against the Holy Spirit won't be forgiven in this life - OR the NEXT. This implies that in the next life there ARE some who will be forgiven and others who won't. If this were not the case, Jesys would have left out the entire part about the next life. He would have simply said, “whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven" - PERIOD.

As for 1 Cor. 3:12-15, Jesus is talking to Christians. Your ignorance keeps you from the fact that Catholics ARE Christians, but that is beside the point.
He is speaking of a state of existence that is not heaven because there is suffering.
It is not hell because the person WILL BE saved.
IT is speaking of a THIRD condition - one of a final PURGATION.

Time after time in the Old Testament, God is compared to the REFINER of precious metal and uses His FIRE to refine. Paul is using the exact same metaphor here that we see in verses like Daniel 11:35, Job 23:10, Malachi 3:2, Isaiah 10-11, Malachi 3:3, and Zechariah 13:9.

Finally, as to the Books of Maccabees and the other Deuterocanonical Books - you are about as DEAD WRONG as you could bere here. I don't really blame you though - it is how you've been indoctrinated by the various perverse traditions of Protestantism.
Let me give you a little Biblical and Historical lesson:

The Deuterocanonical Books were part of the Septuagint. The Septuagint was the Greek translation of the Old Testament from the Masoretic text, which was translated by 70 Hebrew Scholars, Hence, the name "Septuagint". It can be illustrated that Jesus and the NT writers ALL studied and learned from the Septuagint. There are over 100 direct quotes and references to the Deuterocanonical Books in the New Testament. The Catholic Church didn't "add" these Books later. They were ALWAYS recognized as Scripture.

Later, AFTER the death and resurrection of Christ, Jewish scholars rejected these Books because of their Hellenistic influence. During the Diaspora (dispersion), many Jews were being converted to Christianity because of the Septuagint and, in particular, the Deuterocanonical Books. These Books were included in the Canon that was originally declared by the Catholic Church at the Councils of Rome, Carthage and Hippo in the 4th century because they were ALWAYS considered to be inspired.

I really suggest you read up on the Early Church Fathers instead of listeniong to your anti-Catholic, Historically-challenged minister. That way, you'll get an honest, unadulterated version of history.

There ends the lesson for the day.

A lesson from futility! Your religious posturing does nothing in actual reality but puff you up!

What is happening to this forum? We are being TROLLED by religious nuts!

 

[Alanforchrist]

Not ONE Catholic doctrine is found in the Bible??
What about Baptism?
What about The deity of Jesus Christ?
What about the Resurrection??
What about Jesus' sacrifice on the cross for our sins?

Don't make blanket statements that you cannot support. It only serves to expose your ignorance.



So much blatant and transparent error - it's difficult to know where to begin. Why don't we start with Matt. 12:32.

As I showed you, Jesus is taslking about how a person who sins against the Holy Spirit won't be forgiven in this life - OR the NEXT. This implies that in the next life there ARE some who will be forgiven and others who won't. If this were not the case, Jesys would have left out the entire part about the next life. He would have simply said, “whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven" - PERIOD.

As for 1 Cor. 3:12-15, Jesus is talking to Christians. Your ignorance keeps you from the fact that Catholics ARE Christians, but that is beside the point.
He is speaking of a state of existence that is not heaven because there is suffering.
It is not hell because the person WILL BE saved.
IT is speaking of a THIRD condition - one of a final PURGATION.

Time after time in the Old Testament, God is compared to the REFINER of precious metal and uses His FIRE to refine. Paul is using the exact same metaphor here that we see in verses like Daniel 11:35, Job 23:10, Malachi 3:2, Isaiah 10-11, Malachi 3:3, and Zechariah 13:9.

Finally, as to the Books of Maccabees and the other Deuterocanonical Books - you are about as DEAD WRONG as you could bere here. I don't really blame you though - it is how you've been indoctrinated by the various perverse traditions of Protestantism.
Let me give you a little Biblical and Historical lesson:

The Deuterocanonical Books were part of the Septuagint. The Septuagint was the Greek translation of the Old Testament from the Masoretic text, which was translated by 70 Hebrew Scholars, Hence, the name "Septuagint". It can be illustrated that Jesus and the NT writers ALL studied and learned from the Septuagint. There are over 100 direct quotes and references to the Deuterocanonical Books in the New Testament. The Catholic Church didn't "add" these Books later. They were ALWAYS recognized as Scripture.

Later, AFTER the death and resurrection of Christ, Jewish scholars rejected these Books because of their Hellenistic influence. During the Diaspora (dispersion), many Jews were being converted to Christianity because of the Septuagint and, in particular, the Deuterocanonical Books. These Books were included in the Canon that was originally declared by the Catholic Church at the Councils of Rome, Carthage and Hippo in the 4th century because they were ALWAYS considered to be inspired.

I really suggest you read up on the Early Church Fathers instead of listeniong to your anti-Catholic, Historically-challenged minister. That way, you'll get an honest, unadulterated version of history.

There ends the lesson for the day.

[1]Baptism The Biblical one, Not the catholic one. Deity, resurrection and sacrifice of Jesus are all Christian doctrines.
catholics do teach those basic Christian doctrines, As I have said, the catholics teach the basics of the birth, life, Ministry, death and resurrection of Jesus. But the other catholic doctrines aren't in the Bible.

[2]As for Matt 12: 32, Of cause there is a next life, The Bible teaches heaven and hell...BUT NO PURGATORY.
As I have said, It simply means one will never ever be forgiven.

[3]catholic aren't Christians, Whatever make you thing they are??.
The catholics way of salvation is far different to the Biblical way..So how can the be Christians??.
There are far to many differences between the Biblical Church and the catholic church, For the catholics to be a Christian Church...They are a devil inspired, man made false religion.

[4]In 1 Cor 3: 12--15,There is no suffering for the Christian, Apart from the shame of having no works for those who's works are burned..It is the works that burn, Not the people.
I1 Cor 3: 12--15,is the bemma seat, The place of rewards..NOT PURGATORY.

[5]The Holy Ghost is our refiner, Now..Matt 3:11. And the blood of Jesus cleanses us from all sin.
To believe in purgatory, Is to say the Holy Ghost's fire, Washing of regeneration and renewing, And the blood of Jesus are insufficient.

[6]Those added catholic books, weren't in the original texts, The catholics added those some 300---600 years later when they were formed.
Then the reformers put the Bible back to it's original number of books.

You obviously believe the pope's porkies and the catholic con-men rather then the Biblical truths.

 

[Mungo]

Baptism is not a Catholic rite. It isn't even a rite! It is a command from the Lord for disciples to enter the fellowship through a symbolic death and resurrection in water in a full immersion.

Baptism is how we are saved, how we are made children of God, part of the Body of Christ. It's a core doctrine of Christianity.

[1]Baptism The Biblical one, Not the catholic one. Deity, resurrection and sacrifice of Jesus are all Christian doctrines.
catholics do teach those basic Christian doctrines, As I have said, the catholics teach the basics of the birth, life, Ministry, death and resurrection of Jesus. But the other catholic doctrines aren't in the Bible.

Catholic Baptism is biblical

[2]As for Matt 12: 32, Of cause there is a next life, The Bible teaches heaven and hell...BUT NO PURGATORY.
As I have said, It simply means one will never ever be forgiven.

There is plenty of biblical foundation for Puergatory. Incidentally Purgatory is not a place but a process of purification.

[3]catholic aren't Christians, Whatever make you thing they are??.
The catholics way of salvation is far different to the Biblical way..So how can the be Christians??.
There are far to many differences between the Biblical Church and the catholic church, For the catholics to be a Christian Church...They are a devil inspired, man made false religion.

Catholics are Christian and the Catholic Church was founded by Jesus Christ.

[4]In 1 Cor 3: 12--15,There is no suffering for the Christian, Apart from the shame of having no works for those who's works are burned..It is the works that burn, Not the people.
I1 Cor 3: 12--15,is the bemma seat, The place of rewards..NOT PURGATORY.

1Cor 3:12-15 is about purification and supports Purgatory

[5]The Holy Ghost is our refiner, Now..Matt 3:11. And the blood of Jesus cleanses us from all sin.
To believe in purgatory, Is to say the Holy Ghost's fire, Washing of regeneration and renewing, And the blood of Jesus are insufficient.

No it doesn't say that at all. Your problem is that you do not understand what Purgatory is about.

[6]Those added catholic books, weren't in the original texts, The catholics added those some 300---600 years later when they were formed.
Then the reformers put the Bible back to it's original number of books.

The Church adopted the Greek LXX (Septuagint) from the begining. It was the common version of the (OT) scriptures in use at the time. The "reformers" had no right to remove them from the Bible.

You obviously believe the pope's porkies and the catholic con-men rather then the Biblical truths.

Hmm! Is that the level of discussion you have sunk to (not that you started much higher)?

 

[mjrhealth]

We judge by the fruit.

Just show me one single denomination that look or reflects even a part of Jesus. But just read the papers listen too the news and we see Gods name slandered all over the place by those who say they are His. There are so many denominations say they are His church but do nothing but give God a bad name. How should He judge those who do such a thing???

What has this to do with Mary who was just like you and me, except she did one thing that so few christians do, she accepted the Voice of an angle without doubt knowing he was a messenger from God, no need of anyone to tell her who it was. She accepted the truth and a seed was sown and life was reaped.

In all His Love

 

[Episkopos]

Was Mary sinless..???

Rom_3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Rom_5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

 

[Mungo]

Was Mary sinless..???

Rom_3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Rom_5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

What is the point of recycling old arguments that have already been refuted?

 

[HammerStone]

This topic is closed. We've run the gamut of the arguments.