Was Paul Right About Women In Church?

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Status
Not open for further replies.

Josho

Millennial Christian
Staff member
Jul 19, 2015
5,814
5,754
113
28
The Land of Aus
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
"Let the woman learn in silence with all subjugation.

But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

For Adam was first formed, then Eve.

And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression." 1 Tim. 2:11-14

This Epistle contains instructions for conduct within a Church. Each of these statements is the very Word of God in principle, and is not merely in the context of the Corinthians Church. All Christians Women are to:

1.) Keep silent in church during teaching.
2.) Learn and accept all being taught by Men.
3.) Not teach Men anything.
4.) Have absolutely no authority over a Man.
5.) Use God's higher ordained preference upon Men as the sole reason for doing all of this, rather than coming up with some "Personal decision to agree and comply, Okay, Whatever you say."
6.) Agree with God's statement that, as was sinless Eve before she sinned, Women are inherently more easily to transgress.

Yes, Paul was right, especially since he was not married such that he would have been speaking from having had a grievously mouthy Wife who was contrary to this Word of God. Praise God for His clarity and authority.

I was married to a Woman who had been teaching multiple Bible Studies to mixed groups. She later passed from cancer.

I am sure Christian women are tired of posts like this and some Christian men have turned this into a legalistic type of teaching.

I have even heard some Christian women say that they have been told by certain Christian men that they cannot work in a job..... It is so saddening to hear....
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

Well-Known Member
Oct 29, 2017
4,032
1,119
113
67
Thomaston Georgia
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Paul was addressing the church because of all the arguments among members at the time. He specifically addressed women who were married who were usurping their authority over their husband. This violated God's command that a husband is head of his household.
I suggest if you are going to attempt to teach on the forum that you first study in depth what you are teaching.

It Doesn't mean that a woman can never speak in a meeting of the congregation? It cannot mean that because back there the women as well as the men received the gifts of the spirit, including those of speaking in tongues and prophesying, and these would require them to speak in the congregation. So in what sense were they to “keep silent in the congregations”? Evidently in those cases where to speak would be to show a lack of subjection. So a sister would not be found debating with brothers or publicly criticizing them, either at a meeting or to other members of the congregation at other times, nor would she exercise authority over the brothers as a teacher or instructor. If a woman did have a question about what a male member said in the congregation, then she could take this up with her husband at home.—1 Cor. 14:35.
 

Sabertooth

Well-Known Member
Sep 17, 2019
1,203
1,129
113
62
Northern Wisconsin
transcendiary.blogspot.com
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Was Paul Right About Women In Church?
"Let the woman learn in silence with all subjugation."
Most patriarchy dogma is driven by cherry-picking Scripture to suit a particular bias.

Men, concentrate on God's assignment for you, like "Love your wives as Christ loves the Church..." [Eph. 5:25-29].

Women, contrary to both patriarchists AND radical feminists, Paul did not write "Shut up, bitch!"
What he did write was consistent with the rest of your Bible (in an edifying way). It is incumbent on you to get with the Holy Spirit and work out their dignified application. We men are not graced to do so (especially those who remain misogynistic).
 

2nd Timothy Group

Well-Known Member
Nov 8, 2020
1,129
581
113
Cashmere
www.youtube.com
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
"Let the woman learn in silence with all subjugation.

But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

For Adam was first formed, then Eve.

And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression." 1 Tim. 2:11-14

This Epistle contains instructions for conduct within a Church. Each of these statements is the very Word of God in principle and is not merely in the context of the Corinthians Church. All Christians Women are to:

1.) Keep silent in church during teaching.
2.) Learn and accept all being taught by Men.
3.) Not teach Men anything.
4.) Have absolutely no authority over a Man.
5.) Use God's higher ordained preference upon Men as the sole reason for doing all of this, rather than coming up with some "Personal decision to agree and comply, Okay, Whatever you say."
6.) Agree with God's statement that, as was sinless Eve before she sinned, Women are inherently more easily to transgress.

Yes, Paul was right, especially since he was not married such that he would have been speaking from having had a grievously mouthy Wife who was contrary to this Word of God. Praise God for His clarity and authority.

I was married to a woman who had been teaching multiple Bible Studies to mixed groups. She later passed from cancer.

Here's the thing: This teaching from Paul sure feels like elements from the Law of Moses. If that's True, what happened to "Freedom in Christ"? What happened to "there is no male nor female"?

Galatians 5:1 NIV - "It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery."

Galatians 3:28 NIV - "There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus."

How much is this different from Peter reverting back to the Law of Moses in Galatians chapter 2?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Pearl

Heart2Soul

Spiritual Warrior
Staff member
May 10, 2018
9,863
14,508
113
65
Tulsa
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I am sure Christian women are tired of posts like this and some Christian men have turned this into a legalistic type of teaching.

I have even heard some Christian women say that they have been told by certain Christian men that they cannot work in a job..... It is so saddening to hear....
Yes..brother, I am anyway. Seems like there is always one in a flow of new members that just has to go there.
This topic has circled the globe 100 times.
 

Renniks

Well-Known Member
Feb 3, 2020
4,308
1,392
113
56
Pennsylvania
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Whether or not this topic has been previously debated matters not, just as it matters not that you say "Hi!" to me, and talk about what your church likes to do. God's Word does not allow women to "debate."

This discussion is not about your ideas. It is about what is written as God's declared Word. Do you understand what I said?
You have an arrogant spirit. I'm no daughter of Eve and I think you are very wrong about this.
 
  • Like
Reactions: dev553344

DNB

Well-Known Member
Dec 8, 2019
4,199
1,370
113
Toronto
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
Paul was addressing the church because of all the arguments among members at the time. He specifically addressed women who were married who were usurping their authority over their husband. This violated God's command that a husband is head of his household.
I suggest if you are going to attempt to teach on the forum that you first study in depth what you are teaching.
I suggest that you do the same, half of your proof was nothing but conjecture? Were you actually serious as presenting your case as facts?
 
  • Like
Reactions: teamventure

DNB

Well-Known Member
Dec 8, 2019
4,199
1,370
113
Toronto
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
In my church we are all equal under Christ the head and sometimes women preach and sometimes men make the brews. We believe this verse:
Galatians 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
Entirely out of context, Pearl.
Paul was speaking to the Judaizers in the first two chapters, his final remark that you quoted, was based on eligibility for redemption, not church hierarchy.
If there are no more gender in God's eyes, which clearly there is, then homosexuality would not be a sin, would it? It would just be two souls or spirits in union, no gender analysis.
Plus, Paul also said '...no bond man or slave..', and then he went on elsewhere, to explain how Masters should treat their slaves, and how slaves should regard their masters.
Again, Galatians 3:28 was spoken to the Judaizers in regard to the qualifications for redemption. Sorry Pearl, but this is sound exegesis, Egalitarians love to take this out of context when the evidence is there, not to.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: teamventure

DNB

Well-Known Member
Dec 8, 2019
4,199
1,370
113
Toronto
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
Yes, I answered a couple of his odd questions and then quickly realized what was going on. Regret responding. Going to ignore.
Yes, although I believe in this particular OP, he is an uncomfortably bizarre character, verging on troll.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DuckieLady

DNB

Well-Known Member
Dec 8, 2019
4,199
1,370
113
Toronto
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
Whether or not this topic has been previously debated matters not, just as it matters not that you say "Hi!" to me, and talk about what your church likes to do. God's Word does not allow women to "debate."

This discussion is not about your ideas. It is about what is written as God's declared Word. Do you understand what I said?
You're a pinhead buddy! I'd watch your mouth, ...actually don't, I'm itching to report you!
 
  • Like
Reactions: dev553344

DNB

Well-Known Member
Dec 8, 2019
4,199
1,370
113
Toronto
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
I am sure Christian women are tired of posts like this and some Christian men have turned this into a legalistic type of teaching.

I have even heard some Christian women say that they have been told by certain Christian men that they cannot work in a job..... It is so saddening to hear....
And, there are many Christian women who agree with Complementarianism.
 
  • Like
Reactions: teamventure

Heart2Soul

Spiritual Warrior
Staff member
May 10, 2018
9,863
14,508
113
65
Tulsa
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I suggest that you do the same, half of your proof was nothing but conjecture? Were you actually serious as presenting your case as facts?
Your approach in how you express your views and opinions and challenges on any given topic often seems to have an air of arrogance and a pinch of condescension to it.
But to answer your question....being a woman in a society that has kept women oppressed not only in ministry but also in careers, in voting rights, in prohibition and many other freedoms that were only afforded to men . I can assure you I have studied in depth what Paul was saying in Corinthians...
So I thank you for your concern as to whether I speak from knowledge of the topic through diligent studies or from my ego I find it highly offensive that you respond so presumptively to my comment.
Brother...PLEASE.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Grailhunter

DNB

Well-Known Member
Dec 8, 2019
4,199
1,370
113
Toronto
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
Your approach in how you express your views and opinions and challenges on any given topic often seems to have an air of arrogance and a pinch of condescension to it.
But to answer your question....being a woman in a society that has kept women oppressed not only in ministry but also in careers, in voting rights, in prohibition and many other freedoms that were only afforded to men . I can assure you I have studied in depth what Paul was saying in Corinthians...
So I thank you for your concern as to whether I speak from knowledge of the topic through diligent studies or from my ego I find it highly offensive that you respond so presumptively to my comment.
Brother...PLEASE.
Well, I'm sorry H2S, but you're right, there was an element of rebuke in my tone. I felt that you were somewhat condescending in your initial post, which isn't my contention as much, but you were so, based on such an unqualified, and arguably fallacious, claim.
And, I'm sorry, historical male chauvinism or the oppression of women, does not make your point valid on any level. As much as black slavery does not make Jesus a negro, or Ras Tafari the messiah, as the oppressed like to claim.

Your exposition on the OP's cited text, was not valid, but you told the OP that he needed to study more. That had a scathing tone.
 
  • Like
Reactions: teamventure

Pearl

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Encounter Team
Apr 9, 2019
11,341
17,174
113
Lancashire
Faith
Christian
Country
United Kingdom
Entirely out of context, Pearl.
Paul was speaking to the Judaizers in the first two chapters, his final remark that you quoted, was based on eligibility for redemption, not church hierarchy.
If there are no more gender in God's eyes, which clearly there is, then homosexuality would not be a sin, would it? It would just be two souls or spirits in union, no gender analysis.
Plus, Paul also said '...no bond man or slave..', and then he went on elsewhere, to explain how Masters should treat their slaves, and how slaves should regard their masters.
Again, Galatians 3:28 was spoken to the Judaizers in regard to the qualifications for redemption. Sorry Pearl, but this is sound exegesis, Egalitarians love to take this out of context when the evidence is there, not to.

I am made in God's image; because I'm a woman doesn't make me inferior to men. I believe the verse I quoted and in all my days as a Christian I haven't met many men who believe women can't take the same roles as men. It is an outdated conception and where it is enforced it is hindering the Holy Spirit and holding the church back.
 

Pearl

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Encounter Team
Apr 9, 2019
11,341
17,174
113
Lancashire
Faith
Christian
Country
United Kingdom
Here's the thing: This teaching from Paul sure feels like elements from the Law of Moses. If that's True, what happened to "Freedom in Christ"? What happened to "there is no male nor female"?

Galatians 5:1 NIV - "It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery."

Galatians 3:28 NIV - "There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus."

How much is this different from Peter reverting back to the Law of Moses in Galatians chapter 2?


I have quoted that verse and been told it doesn't really mean what it says, but I believe it.
 

marksman

My eldest granddaughter showing the result of her
Feb 27, 2008
5,578
2,446
113
82
Melbourne Australia
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
In my church we are all equal under Christ the head and sometimes women preach and sometimes men make the brews. We believe this verse:
Galatians 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
That verse in Galatians is about salvation. It has nothing at all to do with women in leadership.
 
  • Like
Reactions: teamventure

marksman

My eldest granddaughter showing the result of her
Feb 27, 2008
5,578
2,446
113
82
Melbourne Australia
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
Excerpt:

"For the first hundred years they (women) were teachers, administrators, evangelists and prophets, but then the creeping tide of institutionalism pushed them from the centre to the periphery of church life, as the numerous house churches spread across the great cities were subjected to centralized control."
Sorry Pearl but that is not true. I have just spent two years studying the background to the New Testament Church and read numerous books on the subject and not one of them said women were teachers. And the only centralised control were the plurality of Elders in the church in a given town. There was no denominational headquarters giving out the orders.
 
  • Like
Reactions: teamventure

marksman

My eldest granddaughter showing the result of her
Feb 27, 2008
5,578
2,446
113
82
Melbourne Australia
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
I am made in God's image; because I'm a woman doesn't make me inferior to men. I believe the verse I quoted and in all my days as a Christian I haven't met many men who believe women can't take the same roles as men. It is an outdated conception and where it is enforced it is hindering the Holy Spirit and holding the church back.
That is your subjective view Pearl but it is not backed up by scripture. No one is saying that women are inferior to men. What has been said I don't know how many times is that God distributes gifts to everyone and he is the one who decides who does what. If you haven't got the gift of teaching with all the will in the world, you can't teach. You may think you can but you can't. And the verse you quoted has nothing at all to do with women teaching.

And if your God is not many men you are up queer street. If it is an outdated conception then the New Testament is outdated so what do we use to replace it?

I hope by now you can see all the problems you create when you say I will believe what I want to believe and the word of God can go to h**ll.
 
  • Like
Reactions: teamventure

marksman

My eldest granddaughter showing the result of her
Feb 27, 2008
5,578
2,446
113
82
Melbourne Australia
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
Status
Not open for further replies.