Was Peter’S Vision About Food Or About Men?

[bud02]

OK.....let's make this simple. Please direct me to the Book, Chapter and Verse in God's holy word where it states that the ONLY thing a person needs for salvation is FAITH IN JESUS CHRIST!

Don't get me wrong.....I am NOT saying faith is not needed. But what God's word NEVER says is that faith is the ONLY thing that is needed for salvation.

Let's look at some that have FAITH in Christ but will NOT have salvation....

Jam.2
[19] Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

Now do you think these evil angels have faith in Christ? Do they not know who He is? Do they not know what He will do to them when He returns? Are they not aware of their end?

Of course they believe AND have FAITH in who Christ is AND what He will do to them!

James tells us they have faith, but are they covered under the blood of Christ? NO!

Now let's read what else James had to say about having faith......


[17] Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
[18] Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
[19] Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
[20] But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
[21] Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
[22] Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
[23] And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
[24] Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

Now James says it takes MORE than faith for a man to be justified!

So again I ask you, although Rom. is about having faith, is faith ALL that is needed for salvation?

Paul said the following.....

Rom.3
[20] Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
[28] Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

And this is so very true! Man is NOT justified, in other words, have his sins forgiven, through the deeds of the law.

The problem most have is knowing WHAT law it is that Paul is talking about.

What LAW of God removed SIN, or made man guiltless, but still could not make the people perfect?


There is a list of things needed for salvation. We have already read some of them.....


[13] For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

So we must call on the name of the Lord for salvation. But how does one get to that point? Paul tells us....

[14] How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

Working backwards here First we needed a preacher to give the true word of God! Then you need to believe in the word that was given. Then you need to call on the name of Jesus. But what about the preacher? Let's read....

[15] And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

So it can't be just ANY preacher, but one sent by God.

Already God's word tells us it takes more that just belief and faith.

Now if you say or believe otherwise, prove it as the scriptures says.....

2 Tim.4 ... make full proof of thy ministry.

Ephesians 2
[sup]8[/sup] For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, [sup]9[/sup] not of works, lest anyone should boast. [sup]10[/sup] For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

And here are the requirements of the law to stay saved.


Colossians 2
[sup]11[/sup] In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the sins[sup][c][/sup] of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, [sup]12[/sup] buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead. [sup]13[/sup] And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, [sup]14[/sup] having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. [sup]15[/sup] Having disarmed principalities and powers, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them in it.
[sup]16[/sup] So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, [sup]17[/sup] which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ. [sup]18[/sup] Let no one cheat you of your reward, taking delight in false humility and worship of angels, intruding into those things which he has not[sup][d][/sup] seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind, [sup]19[/sup] and not holding fast to the Head, from whom all the body, nourished and knit together by joints and ligaments, grows with the increase that is from God.
[sup]20[/sup] Therefore,[sup][e][/sup] if you died with Christ from the basic principles of the world, why, as though living in the world, do you subject yourselves to regulations— [sup]21[/sup] “Do not touch, do not taste, do not handle,” [sup]22[/sup] which all concern things which perish with the using—according to the commandments and doctrines of men? [sup]23[/sup] These things indeed have an appearance of wisdom in self-imposed religion, false humility, and neglect of the body, but are of no value against the indulgence of the flesh.

 

[jiggyfly]

And yet we Jewish Christians know that we become right with God, not by doing what the law commands, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be accepted by God because of our faith in Christ--and not because we have obeyed the law. For no one will ever be saved by obeying the law." But what if we seek to be made right with God through faith in Christ and then find out that we are still sinners? Has Christ led us into sin? Of course not! Rather, I make myself guilty if I rebuild the old system I already tore down. For when I tried to keep the law, I realized I could never earn God's approval. So I died to the law so that I might live for God. I have been crucified with Christ. I myself no longer live, but Christ lives in me. So I live my life in this earthly body by trusting in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.I am not one of those who treats the grace of God as meaningless. For if we could be saved by keeping the law, then there was no need for Christ to die. Gal. 2:16-21


Well then, is there a conflict between God's law and God's promises? Absolutely not! If the law could have given us new life, we could have been made right with God by obeying it. But the Scriptures have declared that we are all prisoners of sin, so the only way to receive God's promise is to believe in Jesus Christ. Until faith in Christ was shown to us as the way of becoming right with God, we were guarded by the law. We were kept in protective custody, so to speak, until we could put our faith in the coming Savior.
Let me put it another way. The law was our guardian and teacher to lead us until Christ came. So now, through faith in Christ, we are made right with God. But now that faith in Christ has come, we no longer need the law as our guardian. So you are all children [fn] of God through faith in Christ Jesus. And all who have been united with Christ in baptism have been made like him. There is no longer Jew or Gentile, [fn] slave or free, male or female. For you are all Christians--you are one in Christ Jesus. And now that you belong to Christ, you are the true children of Abraham. You are his heirs, and now all the promises God gave to him belong to you. Gal.3:21-29


So Christ has really set us free. Now make sure that you stay free, and don't get tied up again in slavery to the law. Listen! I, Paul, tell you this: If you are counting on circumcision to make you right with God, then Christ cannot help you. I'll say it again. If you are trying to find favor with God by being circumcised, you must obey all of the regulations in the whole law of Moses. For if you are trying to make yourselves right with God by keeping the law, you have been cut off from Christ! You have fallen away from God's grace. But we who live by the Spirit eagerly wait to receive everything promised to us who are right with God through faith. For when we place our faith in Christ Jesus, it makes no difference to God whether we are circumcised or not circumcised. What is important is faith expressing itself in love. Gal. 5:1-6


Dear brothers and sisters, if I were still preaching that you must be circumcised--as some say I do--why would the Jews persecute me? The fact that I am still being persecuted proves that I am still preaching salvation through the cross of Christ alone. I only wish that those troublemakers who want to mutilate you by circumcision would mutilate themselves. Gal.5:11&12


Because of Christ and our faith in him, we can now come fearlessly into God's presence, assured of his glad welcome. Eph.3:12

 

[bud02]

Amen jiggyfly

 

[Eccl.12:13]

Talk about dodging a question...

bod02....
Over and over again you provide me with scriptures saying faith is needed for salvation, to which I agree. But my question from the start to you has always been, "Is faith ALL that is needed?"

I have provided scripures saying that it takes MORE than just faith in Jesus Christ in order to enter into the Father kingdom. If you do not agree, I have asked that you provide scriptures proving your case. You have yet to provide ONE scripture saying ONLY faith is needed.

I know it takes more than faith, and I'm sure by now those reading this lesson are well aware of it also.

If you choose to think otherwise, your problem is not with me...it's with the word of God.



jiggyfly......did you not have an answer to the following?

Before going ANY further let's get a clear understanding of God's word. Please explain how the above verse you supplied comes anywhere close to what is found below in the KJV.

Phil.3
[2] Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision.

How on earth did you get, "...those mutilators who say you must be circumcised to be saved. ..."

Nor did you bother to address this....

Please explain why Paul agreed to this....

"...That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well."

And later told other this....

"What say I then? that the idol is any thing, or that which is offered in sacrifice to idols is any thing? But if any man say unto you, This is offered in sacrifice unto idols, eat not for his sake that shewed it, and for conscience sake: for the earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof:"

What you presented does NOT explain why Paul agreed to abstaining from things offered to idols then to saying it was not ok to do so, if it did not bother you!

Also....do you really think ALL that is needed for these new converts to obtain salvation is to ONLY those things written in the letter to them, which was the following;

So now that NEITHER one of you could direct me to just ONE scripture where it says that FAITH and ONLY FAITH is all that is needed for salvation, or answer simple questions, we can now move on and get back to the topic of this lesson.

As Peter, and hopefully the readers found out, his dreams were NOT about God's dietary laws!

What God was letting Peter know, through his dreams, was the following....

"...but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean."

At NO point were Peter's dreams EVER about doing away with God's dietary laws.


Readers of this lesson and the other I posted, "Were The Pharisees Questioning Food Or The Tradition Of Washing?", please understand.....the day is coming when Jesus Christ will return to this earth to render wrath and vengenance upon those that have sinned against God.


And just so there is no misunderstanding, let's review God's definition of SIN:

"Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law."


And who has sinned?

"For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;"
"Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:"

These (3) verses ALONE let's us know for a fact that ALL of God's laws could NOT have been nailed to His cross!!

Peter gave us the warning about Paul's writings for a reason.

Jesus says to keep the commandments for eternal life!

And yet there are those that try to say that Paul said they were nailed to the cross!

As I have said before....there is ONE set of laws that were nailed to HIs cross, but they were NOT the (10), nor any on the moral laws, nor the feast days, nor was it God's dietary laws!

Make no mistake.......when Jesus returns He WILL punish those that did not keep His Commandments, laws and statutes.....and yes.....that does include His dietary laws!


.

 

[Xanderoc]

So now that NEITHER one of you could direct me to just ONE scripture where it says that FAITH and ONLY FAITH is all that is needed for salvation, or answer simple questions, we can now move on and get back to the topic of this lesson.

As Peter, and hopefully the readers found out, his dreams were NOT about God's dietary laws!

What God was letting Peter know, through his dreams, was the following....

"...but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean."

At NO point were Peter's dreams EVER about doing away with God's dietary laws.


Readers of this lesson and the other I posted, "Were The Pharisees Questioning Food Or The Tradition Of Washing?", please understand.....the day is coming when Jesus Christ will return to this earth to render wrath and vengenance upon those that have sinned against God.


And just so there is no misunderstanding, let's review God's definition of SIN:

"Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law."


And who has sinned?

"For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;"
"Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:"

These (3) verses ALONE let's us know for a fact that ALL of God's laws could NOT have been nailed to His cross!!

Peter gave us the warning about Paul's writings for a reason.

Jesus says to keep the commandments for eternal life!

And yet there are those that try to say that Paul said they were nailed to the cross!

As I have said before....there is ONE set of laws that were nailed to HIs cross, but they were NOT the (10), nor any on the moral laws, nor the feast days, nor was it God's dietary laws!

Make no mistake.......when Jesus returns He WILL punish those that did not keep His Commandments, laws and statutes.....and yes.....that does include His dietary laws!


.

AMEN!!!!! Eccl.12:13 AMEN...
The problem here is people truly don't understand that Paul spoke about the "sacrificial law", those were the carnal ordinances.
Jiggyfly mention Gal. 3:[sup]21[/sup]Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law. This is talking about the sacrificial law!!! Look what Paul said in Romans 7:
[sup]7[/sup]What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

[sup]8[/sup]But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.

[sup]9[/sup]For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

[sup]10[/sup]And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
Can't you see two law's here? Paul said the commandments were ordain to life!!! He's not contradicting himself, people are truly misinterpreting the scriptures. PEOPLE READING THIS POST, PAY CAREFUL ATTENTION TO PETER'S WARNING ABOUT PAUL'S WRITING. Paul wrote, and spoke to people according to there understanding.

 

[gregg]

The Ten comandments verses the law. Which one was nailed to the cross? We must seperate the two. which reminds me the ten are now two that will fullfill them both. but then you all know that right? :huh:

 

[Eccl.12:13]

AMEN!!!!! Eccl.12:13 AMEN...
The problem here is people truly don't understand that Paul spoke about the "sacrificial law", those were the carnal ordinances.
Jiggyfly mention Gal. 3:[sup]21[/sup]Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law. This is talking about the sacrificial law!!! Look what Paul said in Romans 7:
[sup]7[/sup]What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

[sup]8[/sup]But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.

[sup]9[/sup]For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

[sup]10[/sup]And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
Can't you see two law's here? Paul said the commandments were ordain to life!!! He's not contradicting himself, people are truly misinterpreting the scriptures. PEOPLE READING THIS POST, PAY CAREFUL ATTENTION TO PETER'S WARNING ABOUT PAUL'S WRITING. Paul wrote, and spoke to people according to there understanding.

Thanks Xander:

You really hit the nail of the head; "...people truly don't understand that Paul spoke about the "sacrificial law"..." "...Can't you see two law's here? Paul said the commandments were ordain to life!!! He's not contradicting himself, people are truly misinterpreting the scriptures."

After I prove with my next lesson that Jesus will come to consume those that have disobeyed His dietary laws, I will have to post a lesson about the "Law that was added..and the law that was changed", that Paul spoke of.


.

 

[Eccl.12:13]

The Ten comandments verses the law. Which one was nailed to the cross?

Here is a hint: The ONE law that was nailed to the cross satisfied ALL of following conditions;

It was a law that failed, God never liked but allowed, could not make the people perfect, was only to be around for a short time, was added because God's other laws kept being broken, and required works and deeds!

You find the ONE law that meet ALL of the above conditions and you will have found the law Paul says was nailed to the cross!!

And YES!!!! There is ONE law that meets ALL of the above conditions. Paul speaks about this ONE law ALL the time.

The problem, like xander said, is that people just do not understand that Paul speaks of TWO laws! Sometimes he speaks of them in the same sentence!

Like Peter said.......Paul's writings are HARD to understand..........!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You had better make sure you get them right!


.



.

 

[bud02]

The Ten comandments verses the law. Which one was nailed to the cross? We must seperate the two. which reminds me the ten are now two that will fullfill them both. but then you all know that right? :huh:

That's exactly right gregg.
If we look at Dt 31:26 we will see that the two are not one and the same.

[sup]24[/sup] So it was, when Moses had completed writing the words of this law in a book, when they were finished, [sup]25[/sup] that Moses commanded the Levites, who bore the ark of the covenant of the LORD, saying: [sup]26[/sup] “Take this Book of the Law, and put it beside the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there as a witness against you;

It was not placed within the ark of the, with the ten commandments, but placed outside, that it may be there as a witness against you;
So now lets remember when the law is spoken of its the law of Moses, and when its said, keeps the commandments of God you know the difference.
Remember when the Pharisees asked Jesus, what is the greatest commandment.

[sup]34[/sup] But when the Pharisees heard that He had silenced the Sadducees, they gathered together. [sup]35[/sup] Then one of them, a lawyer, asked Him a question, testing Him, and saying, [sup]36[/sup] “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?”
[sup]37[/sup] Jesus said to him, “ ‘You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ [sup]38[/sup] This is the first and great commandment. [sup]39[/sup] And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ [sup]40[/sup] On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”

Big difference between the Law and the Commandments.
The law is all the don't touch and don't eat, ect. Not found in the commandments.

Rev 12:[sup]17[/sup] And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Rev 14:[sup]12[/sup] Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

Jesus never did away with the commandments, what did He say.

[sup][/sup]

[sup]17[/sup] “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. [sup]18[/sup] For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. [sup]19[/sup] Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. [sup]20[/sup] For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.

With the difference determined between law and commandment, carefully read the verse above. With that information, that the law and commandments are different it makes much more sense.
Notice the condition after the second word law, Till all is fulfilled. All was fulfilled at the cross, both the law and the commandments, we are no longer under the law. But look He goes on and speaks of the commandments, and the condition on that effects how we are viewed from heaven always. The commandments and the law are clearly different. With Pauls teaching on circumcision, Abraham's law, it to has passed away in Christ sacrifice. For you SDA the sabbath is always the sabbath and it is the 4th commandment, I will never disagree. But the rest of the law not so much an active part of a believers life.

Thanks for the right answer gregg.
The 10 commandments are as necessary and enforced by God today as the day they were handed to Moses.

Now who changed this law the 4th commandment so that we all worship on Sunday? Its clearly a 10 commandment and it clearly defines a time. If you look hard enough you will find that Constantine, the founder of the Roman Catholic Church changed it.
Constantine changed the official day of worship to Sunday during the Nicene Council of a.d. 325.
This was confirmed at the Council of Laodicea almost 40 years later in a.d. 363. At that conference, it was determined, “Christians must not Judaize by resting on the Sabbath, but must work on that day, rather honoring the Lord’s Day. … But if any shall be found to be Judaizers, let them be anathema [cursed and excommunicated] from Christ.”

Now go to Danial and see the little horn? What is one of the things he does? Why he changes the times and law.

Daniel 7-[sup]25[/sup] He shall speak pompous words against the Most High,
Shall persecute the saints of the Most High,
And shall intend to change times and law.
Then the saints shall be given into his hand
For a time and times and half a time.------------------from 325 AD add 1260 years = 1585AD wonder what was going on in the

church then? Were their saints comeing out from under the hand of one who speaks pompous words one that changed laws and times?

Wow, I can't want for the 7 year trib to watch the little horn change the times and laws in the future.
and then have the saints be given over to him for 3.5 years.
Just what the heck would changing the laws and times do so late in the game.
Wake up people the times and laws of God the 4th commandment, was changed many years ago.
Futurism, the moving of Danial's 70th week to the future was created by the catholic church, in the late 1500s to take the RCC out of these prophesy's and apply them to a future 7 year trib. Since the turn of the 20th century this teaching futurism has run like wild fire threw the churches of the united states, the country under God, in God we trust. Sounds like a great falling away to me, and getting worse every year. end of rant.

But I would be interested in all you futurist telling me what law and time will be changed in your 7 year trib. I have already shown you where they already have been.

 

[gregg]

WHAT DO I WIN? :lol: Whenever i have a hard time with scriptures i allways go to the RED ones. they are allways the ones that have the final say.Remember all other scriptures were and are from them. They never change.

 

[Eccl.12:13]

Big difference between the Law and the Commandments.

I tell you what....answer me this..........


Did Adam break a "Law" or a "Commandment"?

Let's take a look at what God calls "Laws", "Commandments", "Charge" and "Statutes". We will see they are ALL one in the same.


THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE!!!!!



"Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws."

"And the LORD said unto Moses, How long refuse ye to keep my commandments and my laws?"

"And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments."

And now let's read just a few of God's "...TEN COMMANDMENTS"

Exod. 20
[4] Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image...
[7] Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain...
[13] Thou shalt not kill.
[14] Thou shalt not commit adultery.
[15] Thou shalt not steal.
[16] Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
[17] Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife


Now let's go to the word of God for the definition of SIN:

1 John 3
[4] Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.


Now let's read the consequenses of sin.

Rev.21
[8] But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.


Now let's put this all together........


TEN COMMANDMENTS = (DO NOT MAKE GRAVEN IMAGE) (DO NOT KILL) (DO NOT LIE)

SIN = (DO NOT BREAK GOD'S LAWS)

IF YOU SIN = (SECOND DEATH)

THINGS THAT WILL CAUSE SECOND DEATH = (IDOLATERS) (MURDERS) (ALL LIARS)


If you sin you have broken God's laws, which will result in the second death!
The SAME things that will cause the second death are the SAME as God's commandments!

This is as simple as; If A = B and B = C, then A = C !

So tell me, which one was nailed to His cross?

God's LAWS?

Or......

God's COMMANDMENTS?


Looks like "COMMANDMENTS" and "LAWS" are one in the same!!!!!

As I have said....

There was ONE law that was nailed to the cross that satisfied ALL of following conditions;

It was a law that failed, God never liked but allowed, could not make the people perfect, was only to be around for a short time, was added because God's other laws kept being broken, and required works and deeds!

You find the ONE law that meet ALL of the above conditions and you will have found the law Paul says was nailed to the cross!!



.

 

[jiggyfly]

Let's not continue to ignore this scripture.

That old system of law etched in stone led to death, yet it began with such glory that the people of Israel could not bear to look at Moses' face. For his face shone with the glory of God, even though the brightness was already fading away. Shouldn't we expect far greater glory when the Holy Spirit is giving life? If the old covenant, which brings condemnation, was glorious, how much more glorious is the new covenant, which makes us right with God! In fact, that first glory was not glorious at all compared with the overwhelming glory of the new covenant. So if the old covenant, which has been set aside, was full of glory, then the new covenant, which remains forever, has far greater glory. Since this new covenant gives us such confidence, we can be very bold.
We are not like Moses, who put a veil over his face so the people of Israel would not see the glory fading away. But the people's minds were hardened, and even to this day whenever the old covenant is being read, a veil covers their minds so they cannot understand the truth. And this veil can be removed only by believing in Christ. Yes, even today when they read Moses' writings, their hearts are covered with that veil, and they do not understand. 2Corinthians 3:7-15

 

[bud02]

It never ceases to amaze me that the simple concept of salvation can be so lost, or failed to be understood. As I get older the more I realize that this is the root of most peoples problems with understanding scripture or God in general.

 

[Eccl.12:13]

Let's not continue to ignore this scripture.

If the old covenant, which brings condemnation, was glorious, how much more glorious is the new covenant, which makes us right with God! We are not like Moses, who put a veil over his face so the people of Israel would not see the glory fading away.

2Corinthians 3:7-15

How long will you two continue to dodge questions?

jiggyfly:
Watch out for those dogs, those wicked men and their evil deeds, those mutilators who say you must be circumcised to be saved.

Before going ANY further let's get a clear understanding of God's word. Please explain how the above verse you supplied comes anywhere close to what is found below in the KJV.

Phil.3
[2] Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision.

How on earth did you get, "...those mutilators who say you must be circumcised to be saved. ..."

And Bud 02;

Did Adam break a LAW or COMMANDMENT?

Very simple questions!

I'm sure those reading are waiting for an answer!!!!!!


I know I AM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



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[jiggyfly]

How long will you two continue to dodge questions?

OK seems it must be spelled out for you.

Beware [sup]991[/sup] of dogs [sup]2965[/sup], beware [sup]991[/sup] of evil [sup]2556[/sup]workers [sup]2040[/sup], beware [sup]991[/sup] of the concision [sup]2699[/sup].


The Greek word katatomē translated as concision by KJV means 1) to cut up, mutilation.


That is how I and the millions of others came up with mutilation. Would you like to see some commentary?




Now why do you continue to ignore 2Cor. 3:7?????????

 

[Eccl.12:13]

OK seems it must be spelled out for you.

Beware [sup]991[/sup] of dogs [sup]2965[/sup], beware [sup]991[/sup] of evil [sup]2556[/sup]workers [sup]2040[/sup], beware [sup]991[/sup] of the concision [sup]2699[/sup].


The Greek word katatomē translated as concision by KJV means 1) to cut up, mutilation.


That is how I and the millions of others came up with mutilation. Would you like to see some commentary?


Now why do you continue to ignore 2Cor. 3:7?????????

I have no problem with the word "concision". It means the same in dear old "Webster" (archaic: a cutting up or of).

When using the word 'concision' with words like 'dogs' and 'evil workers', I understand what is being said; Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of those that can destroy.

It is that which follows I question. How did you get THIS? "who say you must be circumcised to be saved. ..."


Please show me the "Greek" words for "....who say you must be circumcised to be saved"


Please explain to those reading how you came about this translation!


You also provided 2 Cor. 3:7-15 and I am still trying to understand how it ties into Peter and his vision!




Please understand jiggyfly and bod02;

I am NOT trying to convince you to see what God's words are saying. He and He alone is the only one that can do that.


This lesson is for those that may have been told that Peter's dream was about doing away with God's dietary laws, but as one can clearly see, God's words proves otherwise.

The message God wanted Peter to know is very clearly spelled out.....

"....but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean."

At NO point was Peter's dream EVER about doing away with God's dietary laws!


.



Oh yes.....bud02;

Still waiting for your answer to the following;

Did Adam break God's laws or commandments?

After all.......you did say,

"Big difference between the Law and the Commandments."

 

[jiggyfly]

I have no problem with the word "concision". It means the same in dear old "Webster" (archaic: a cutting up or of).

When using the word 'concision' with words like 'dogs' and 'evil workers', I understand what is being said; Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of those that can destroy.

It is that which follows I question. How did you get THIS? "who say you must be circumcised to be saved. ..."


Please show me the "Greek" words for "....who say you must be circumcised to be saved"


Please explain to those reading how you came about this translation!

Do you understand the importance of context? Do you know what a dynamic translation is?

Let me give you some back ground in KJV so you can relate.

And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, [and said], Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved. When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and disputation with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto the apostles and elders about this question.Acts 15:1&2




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You also provided 2 Cor. 3:7-15 and I am still trying to understand how it ties into Peter and his vision!

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It opposes the misconception you are propigating about Peter's dream. But every time I post it you dodge it, I wonder why?????

 

[bud02]

How long will you two continue to dodge questions?



And Bud 02;

Did Adam break a LAW or COMMANDMENT?

Very simple questions!

I'm sure those reading are waiting for an answer!!!!!!


I know I AM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



.

A simple reading of Gen will answer that question.
God commanded so yes Adam broke Gods single commandment.

[sup]16[/sup]And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: [sup]17[/sup]But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

And don't forget the last part thou shalt surely die. When you read the NT. God is unchanging.

How can we not see that God said, commanded, don't eat from that tree. What it demonstrates is that even with Adams close relationship with God Adam still had a free will.
In the verse below we see the voice of the Lord God walking. I can't help but of John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. [sup]2[/sup] He was in the beginning with God.

[sup]14[/sup]And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us,

[sup]8[/sup]And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden.

 

[Eccl.12:13]

A simple reading of Gen will answer that question.
God commanded so yes Adam broke Gods single commandment.

[sup]16[/sup]And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:

Agreeded! Adam did break God's commandment. But it is obvious, through the scriptures, that God considered His commandments LAWS! Let's read...

Rom.5
[12] Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

Now who was the man that caused sin to enter into the world, and thus death by that sin? The scripture tells us.....

[14] Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

And again.....

1 Cor.15
[22] For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

And what was the sin that Adam commited? Let's read the scripture you provided......

Gen.2
[16] And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:

And one more....

Gen.3
[17] And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it:

So we clearly see that Adam broke God's 'single' commandment, thus commiting the SIN that brought death to ALL men, "...for that all have sinned:"

So if we break God's commandments we have SINNED! And above it states, "...ALL..." have sinned!

We can read it a few more places....

Eccl.7
[20] For there is not a just man upon earth, that doeth good, and sinneth not.
Rom.3
[23] For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;


Now let's find God's definition of the word SIN!

1 John 3
[4] Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Please note what GOD said SIN is......the transgression of the LAW!

We know Adam SINNED, which we found to be breaking God's commandment!
We know ALL have SINNED!
We know the definition of SIN, which is to transgress the LAW!

Again we have (If A equals B, and B equals C, then A MUST equal C!)

If you break God's COMMANDMENTS you have SINNED! A = B
If you SIN you have broken God's LAWS! B = C
When you SIN you break both; COMMANDMENTS & LAWS! A = C

Now getting back to your statement....

"Big difference between the Law and the Commandments."

Please explain......

 

[Xanderoc]

It opposes the misconception you are propigating about Peter's dream. But every time I post it you dodge it, I wonder why?????

Jiggfly I have been reading through out this thread and I don't see any misconception with
"This lesson is for those that may have been told that Peter's dream was about doing away with God's dietary laws, but as one can clearly see, God's words proves otherwise.

The message God wanted Peter to know is very clearly spelled out.....

"....but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean."

At NO point was Peter's dream EVER about doing away with God's dietary laws!"
He isn't propagating anything. If anyone tries to use Acts to do away with God's dietary law, WELL THAT IS PROPAGATION!!!!!
and as for 2 Cor. 3:7 WHAT POINT EXACTLY ARE YOU TRYING TO MAKE?????